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Canada13372 Posts
On May 10 2011 11:51 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 11:27 ridonkulous wrote:On May 10 2011 11:05 bovineblitz wrote:On May 10 2011 10:33 Moja wrote: 500 damage in 10 seconds. There's a windup and wind-down time.
Make 2 thors and have them kill 2 barracks, 1 with autoattack and 1 with cannon. It's basically even until you get attack upgrades, then autoattack wins. Apparently you've never witnessed a thor heavy rush vs a robo heavy Protoss army. Strike cannon is insane in that scenario. I find it kinda funny that the big badass Terran units (BC and Thor) get insta-kill upgrades when they're already pretty good to begin with. Maybe in HotS Zerg will get a bunch of funky abilities and upgrades (like building armor, static D range, etc). bc is garbage against zerg, tyler said once on his stream blizzard buffed so much corruptors to make them "counter" colo they totally killed bc/carrier in the process Personally i think that Colos should be nerfed in Range and their gimmick cliff ability and sight ability. In exchange they can no longer be hit by air to air attacks.
They wont ever make that crazy a change for WoL. Its too much and too big a change. At most we will see HoTS bring changes if they are game altering in any way.
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On May 10 2011 11:51 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 11:27 ridonkulous wrote:On May 10 2011 11:05 bovineblitz wrote:On May 10 2011 10:33 Moja wrote: 500 damage in 10 seconds. There's a windup and wind-down time.
Make 2 thors and have them kill 2 barracks, 1 with autoattack and 1 with cannon. It's basically even until you get attack upgrades, then autoattack wins. Apparently you've never witnessed a thor heavy rush vs a robo heavy Protoss army. Strike cannon is insane in that scenario. I find it kinda funny that the big badass Terran units (BC and Thor) get insta-kill upgrades when they're already pretty good to begin with. Maybe in HotS Zerg will get a bunch of funky abilities and upgrades (like building armor, static D range, etc). bc is garbage against zerg, tyler said once on his stream blizzard buffed so much corruptors to make them "counter" colo they totally killed bc/carrier in the process Personally i think that Colos should be nerfed in Range and their gimmick cliff ability and sight ability. In exchange they can no longer be hit by air to air attacks.
It would make them too close to tanks, balance for blizzard is more complicated then just making everything super similar.
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Protoss player here still waiting for colossus to get nerfed.
I still think they should buff phoenix to do full damage to all units, and nerf colossus to do full damage only to light units.
And before you go saying that would leave phoenix overpowered, keep in mind that air superiority is a necessity against toss specifically because of colossus being OP.
Will it require a reshuffling of some air units? Yeah, maybe, Broodlords might need more armor or something. But it'd sure as hell beat the current colossus situation.
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On May 10 2011 08:57 arb wrote: This patch seems really rushed to me, id rather see them test it out some more..
I think both people using the PTR ok'd it, so they went ahead and uploaded the patch.
Most of their testing is likely in-house anyway, i'll bet they've been experimenting around with it for ages.
I wish stalkers still had their improved warp time though, this just makes protoss more defensive pre-warpgate.
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On May 10 2011 11:59 Dingobloo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 11:51 GinDo wrote:On May 10 2011 11:27 ridonkulous wrote:On May 10 2011 11:05 bovineblitz wrote:On May 10 2011 10:33 Moja wrote: 500 damage in 10 seconds. There's a windup and wind-down time.
Make 2 thors and have them kill 2 barracks, 1 with autoattack and 1 with cannon. It's basically even until you get attack upgrades, then autoattack wins. Apparently you've never witnessed a thor heavy rush vs a robo heavy Protoss army. Strike cannon is insane in that scenario. I find it kinda funny that the big badass Terran units (BC and Thor) get insta-kill upgrades when they're already pretty good to begin with. Maybe in HotS Zerg will get a bunch of funky abilities and upgrades (like building armor, static D range, etc). bc is garbage against zerg, tyler said once on his stream blizzard buffed so much corruptors to make them "counter" colo they totally killed bc/carrier in the process Personally i think that Colos should be nerfed in Range and their gimmick cliff ability and sight ability. In exchange they can no longer be hit by air to air attacks. It would make them too close to tanks, balance for blizzard is more complicated then just making everything super similar. I'd say it would make them more like reavers than tanks. I wouldn't mind it, but at that point there's no point in not just bringing the reaver back.
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On May 10 2011 12:25 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 11:59 Dingobloo wrote:On May 10 2011 11:51 GinDo wrote:On May 10 2011 11:27 ridonkulous wrote:On May 10 2011 11:05 bovineblitz wrote:On May 10 2011 10:33 Moja wrote: 500 damage in 10 seconds. There's a windup and wind-down time.
Make 2 thors and have them kill 2 barracks, 1 with autoattack and 1 with cannon. It's basically even until you get attack upgrades, then autoattack wins. Apparently you've never witnessed a thor heavy rush vs a robo heavy Protoss army. Strike cannon is insane in that scenario. I find it kinda funny that the big badass Terran units (BC and Thor) get insta-kill upgrades when they're already pretty good to begin with. Maybe in HotS Zerg will get a bunch of funky abilities and upgrades (like building armor, static D range, etc). bc is garbage against zerg, tyler said once on his stream blizzard buffed so much corruptors to make them "counter" colo they totally killed bc/carrier in the process Personally i think that Colos should be nerfed in Range and their gimmick cliff ability and sight ability. In exchange they can no longer be hit by air to air attacks. It would make them too close to tanks, balance for blizzard is more complicated then just making everything super similar. I'd say it would make them more like reavers than tanks. I wouldn't mind it, but at that point there's no point in not just bringing the reaver back.
I much prefer reavers over colossus actually. They're at least entertaining, as they play on the concept of tension-release with the scarab running around erratically before going out with a huge bang.
Colossus is just too boring. Even storm is more fun to watch, because then at least it's like burning ants with a magnifying glass than just walking over them nonchalantly.
I really don't think they thought too much about entertainment value when they designed colossus.
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On May 10 2011 09:35 ZeromuS wrote: they didnt fix the bug where fungal growth doesnt trigger a worker under attack prompt :O
yah honestly I really would like them to fix that already and fix their replay apm meter (and would it kill them to have stats for characters like in wc3?) -.-
as far as balance changes go I guess ghosts are more viable in all match-ups now, which is kinda cool, but I am curious how this affects some of the ghost play/rushes that players like TLO did in tvt. I am sort of getting tired of the flip-flopping on changes though.
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On May 10 2011 09:48 loveeholicce wrote: Any1 else who doesn't play Terran really sad about the infestor speed decrease? The one thing challenging infestor play in ZvT was how good Terran drops could be because it was hard to react to them or snipe the dropships without any ground to air unit. It feels like running infestors around my bases to defend drops is gonna be even more of a pain now. Also, infestors moved really fucking slowly off creep as it was X_X. Not sure how much of a change 2.25 is from 2.5 tho, not familiar with the scaling. It could be hardly noticable lol
this is actually a buff, it will stop your infestor from running ahead the rest of your army and get killed needlessly
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they fucked up the APM measure a lot....
Most of my games it shows both players (myself included) around 60 APM... the problem is sc2gears shows me around 130-140 (~100 game speed APM).
So whatever they did, they apparently don't count half the actions I normally do.
Also, I don't apm spam at all.....
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I agree that this patch is too rushed, but leaving on the PTR for longer is not really going to solve anything. No one of any importance (progamers, grandmasters) plays on PTR, they're all busy practising on live.
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The trouble with colossi isn't really anything to do with the unit -- perhaps some slight tweaks are needed in PvT to make things interesting, but the existence of a unit like the colossus doesn't break the matchup.
It breaks PvZ since zerg have even less chance of competing against colossi on the ground than Terran do (Terran have thors, marauders, tanks), and Corruptors are absolute junk. They're necessary junk, which is why people make them in ZvP, but they're junk.
The reason colossi are broken in ZvP is an issue on the zerg side of things, really.
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i wish they'd just fix APM and the game timer to not be affected by the increased game speed. so stupid to see a 15 minute game but it's really only at the 9-10 minute mark
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On May 10 2011 13:23 MavercK wrote: i wish they'd just fix APM and the game timer to not be affected by the increased game speed. so stupid to see a 15 minute game but it's really only at the 9-10 minute mark
You'd think they'd at least normalize it for the speed that ladder games run at.
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Speaking of a rushed patch, has anyone else noticed changes to the achievements. Looks to be a stuff up. Some new headings and acronyms for ones we already have and different ones for IGR (In gold Region i presume) etc.
Not too important but still...
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On May 10 2011 13:15 michaelhasanalias wrote: they fucked up the APM measure a lot....
Most of my games it shows both players (myself included) around 60 APM... the problem is sc2gears shows me around 130-140 (~100 game speed APM).
So whatever they did, they apparently don't count half the actions I normally do.
Also, I don't apm spam at all.....
seriously? thats lame... Oh well i'm not too surprised they would fix it incorrectly :/.
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On May 10 2011 13:24 entropius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 13:23 MavercK wrote: i wish they'd just fix APM and the game timer to not be affected by the increased game speed. so stupid to see a 15 minute game but it's really only at the 9-10 minute mark You'd think they'd at least normalize it for the speed that ladder games run at.
Christ, I've been wondering this for a long time now. Why did they make the 'faster' setting, the setting that 99% of people play at, different from 'normal' time? Never did make sense to me.
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great balance changes. cant wait till this hits the US server!
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On May 10 2011 13:02 sandyph wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 09:48 loveeholicce wrote: Any1 else who doesn't play Terran really sad about the infestor speed decrease? The one thing challenging infestor play in ZvT was how good Terran drops could be because it was hard to react to them or snipe the dropships without any ground to air unit. It feels like running infestors around my bases to defend drops is gonna be even more of a pain now. Also, infestors moved really fucking slowly off creep as it was X_X. Not sure how much of a change 2.25 is from 2.5 tho, not familiar with the scaling. It could be hardly noticable lol this is actually a buff, it will stop your infestor from running ahead the rest of your army and get killed needlessly
How would my Infestors run ahead of my army when I have 3 speed roaches and 4 speed zerglings? The only Zerg units slower than the Infestor are Queens and Broodlords...
Pretty much what I'm getting from your post is that this movespeed reduction was meant to help Zerg players who couldn't micro their spell casters in battle while making them easier for enemy units to pick off as they run away.
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I think this is a bigger nerf to thors in TvP than some people realize. Not only is it a nerf to late-game thors when HT are out to feedback, it is also a nerf to early game thors, because there just wont be time for thors to build energy for cannons to stun immortals by that point.
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On May 10 2011 14:12 jcarlson08 wrote: I think this is a bigger nerf to thors in TvP than some people realize. Not only is it a nerf to late-game thors when HT are out to feedback, it is also a nerf to early game thors, because there just wont be time for thors to build energy for cannons to stun immortals by that point.
That's the point...ghost/thor rushes were insane before on maps like xel naga.
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