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| Rainalcar Croatia. May 20 2011 10:10. Posts 65 | Profile # |
Me and my friends play SC mostly 2v2, and I'm probably 30-40% faster then each of them. They'd like me to play 1v2 where I get to choose the map, perhaps even choose race team to play against. I would like your recommendations, especially on map selection. My by far favorite race is Protoss, so keep that in mind (although I can play others if you think it would be better). We had one situation in the past where I practically had to play 1v2, Toss vs Toss+Zerg, and I held my ground pretty well, but couldn't quite make it. It wasn't a big (land) map, and the natural was difficult to defend, with a big opening. Just one final remark: I may know some things about SC mechanics, like what is good vs what, but they sometimes lack that. They just play for fun and don't bother with math and alike. A few notes on them:
When Zerg, he always goes 9 Pool, 6 lings attack, and then techs to Lurkers, looking is there detection, if yes, he just sits just out. He never uses Mutas, he may switch a bit to Hydras, but not plentiful, he builds slow and has loads of resources all the time, and finally builds a lot of Ultras and Plague Defilers. Never uses Swarm.
When Protoss, it is 2xGateway, imo likely, or FE. Then some Goons and Zeals, probably switch to Carriers and Corsairs late game, Recall likely. (almost surely one will pick Toss)
When Terran, and this is a least likely pick, never MnM, always Tanks, probably some drop. BCs quite possible, as are sneak Wraiths. Vultures never used, no mines. Science Vessels just for detection, too slow with APM to use EMP.
So I expect PP or PZ, very maybe PT. PZ most likely, but I choose eventually.
As for my abilities... My macro is far better then theirs, but I don't fell comfortable sacrificing it for micro on faster and fastest game speed. Therefore I rarely use Storm, but can manage Stasis Arbiters.
My apm is usually 80, their is 40-50.
If it is a land based map I expect 2 gate 6 lings push. If it doesn't work, expand and skirmishes there and then.
If it is an island map, probably air asap, drop perhaps one shuttle with 2 tenks on ledge, or 4 zeals, something like that. |
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| FlaShFTW United States. May 20 2011 10:17. Posts 4960 | Profile Blog # |
Choose PZ first. In order to defend, go for like a 9 10 gate and wall your ramp. Z gets lings out fast to put pressure while p will probs build up ground army. after you have about 4-5 zeals to protect the ramp, transition into a more goon heavy build since your friend goes lurkers. if P just sits back after Z fails at pressuring you, move out to your nat and expand + 3-4 cannons. remember, they have 16 minerals for your 8, so expand whenever possible. continue to add gates and when he gets the lurks, obs.
another KEY think to do in a 1v2 situation, since your macro is good, this should work. when you attack one player, the other will probs help. as soon as the helping partner is out of position, take your reinforcements (your macroed units at your base) and attack the helping partners base. you can cause him to panic and may do considerable damage.
im just a D/D+ toss so dont completely trust me. look for higher skilled players following behind me for better advice. |
| | Never Surrender. Never GG. Always Fighting. BW4LYF. Woo Jung Ho Never Forget. |
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| Grobyc Canada. May 20 2011 10:25. Posts 16966 | Profile Blog # |
| I'd play on something like God's Garden with a safe expansion and one ramp to defend both your bases. It also opens up opportunities for you to drop their expo (or DTs/vults/lurkers in their nat then walk in to the main if they aren't smart enough to expo themselves) during the mid game. |
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| Rainalcar Croatia. May 20 2011 10:27. Posts 65 | Profile # |
Ok, nice advice with the diversion, but I forgot one thing: Protoss will likely build plenty Cannons. If Zerg, he will build a line of Sunkens to his Ramp  He just loves doing that. So it is difficult to break in early. I expand pretty fast, and I somehow thought that I have a best chance overexpanding them, starve them out in a long game. Map recommendations? |
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| Rainalcar Croatia. May 20 2011 10:30. Posts 65 | Profile # |
| I looked at God's Garden, I have a feel if they spawn opposite sides I will not be able to take the unclaimed player position because it is too far and in the middle of them... |
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| xxpack09 United States. May 20 2011 10:32. Posts 1796 | Profile Blog # |
On May 20 2011 10:27 Rainalcar wrote:Ok, nice advice with the diversion, but I forgot one thing: Protoss will likely build plenty Cannons. If Zerg, he will build a line of Sunkens to his Ramp He just loves doing that. So it is difficult to break in early. I expand pretty fast, and I somehow thought that I have a best chance overexpanding them, starve them out in a long game. Map recommendations?
Good. I recommend God's Garden or any map where you can take an expansion in your back, go 2gate zealots then add a forge, put 1-2 cannons on your ramp while expanding to your back expo. Add goons and zealot leg speed, get an observer out, take your front natural. Then you can mass carrier/sair (sairs to protect from scourge) and upgrade from 2 cy cores. Take expansions in the other corner since it's unlikely they'll ever scout there and simply overwhelm with gigantic air force |
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| FlaShFTW United States. May 20 2011 11:08. Posts 4960 | Profile Blog # |
| err... if they are defending up... then i recommend going reaver drops as long as they dont have sunkens IN their main like at the minerals line. go that and cripple econ, then pure macro up and roll over them. |
| | Never Surrender. Never GG. Always Fighting. BW4LYF. Woo Jung Ho Never Forget. |
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| xxpack09 United States. May 20 2011 11:34. Posts 1796 | Profile Blog # |
On May 20 2011 11:08 FlaShFTW wrote:
err... if they are defending up... then i recommend going reaver drops as long as they dont have sunkens IN their main like at the minerals line. go that and cripple econ, then pure macro up and roll over them.
Oh they will have their mineral lines all cannoned and sunkened up if these are like the noobs I've played before. Anyway his apm is only 80 and he has said he doesn't feel comfortable with micro-intensive units so if his goal is to win (not to get better) I would shy away from reavers |
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| Taekwon United States. May 20 2011 12:14. Posts 7965 | Profile # |
Katrina!! vs TT
Aztec vs TT
Tau Cross vs TT
... lol |
| | ▲ ▲ ▲ Hero of Nintendo - 3rd Degree Black Belt ▲ ▲ ▲ |
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| puppykiller United States. May 20 2011 16:16. Posts 1954 | Profile Blog # |
i've played many 1v2's... its really easy to beat 2 noobs, even if you yourself arnt that much better.
Just keep in mind that they are scared of you and that your micro and multitasking intimidates the crap out of them.
You can take advantage of there inexperience by being aggressive at the wrong times.. feign like u can destroy there base or army with your inferior unit count to make them retreat or overly make static defense... camp units outside there base partially in sight range and keep spam moving them around to give them the impression that you have total map control and the ability to instantly react and thrash any push they attempt... expand recklessly as if you can easily defend ur bases... they have 0 game sense and will just assume that you know what your doing and that they have no chance to destroy ur forces.
Number 1 rule is to not turtle... that will give them confidence to atk and expand. Last edit: 2011-05-20 16:18:25 |
| | Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW? |
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| YejinYejin United States. May 20 2011 16:23. Posts 1039 | Profile Blog # |
On May 20 2011 12:14 Taekwon wrote:
Katrina!! vs TT
Aztec vs TT
Tau Cross vs TT
... lol
You forgot Longinus. And I don't think PvT is strong enough on those maps to win a 1v2. Also, what happens if they both BBS? O_O
Also, to be honest, I don't think the difference in 80 apm and 50 apm is that great. At that level it's mostly all about actually knowing what to do and then executing it properly.Last edit: 2011-05-20 16:25:49 |
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| obesechicken13 United States. May 20 2011 17:00. Posts 4229 | Profile Blog # |
PvTT is probably the easiest. Go 2 gate, defensively, then put zealots on your ramp. Take a hidden expo, they won't look for it, but put a pylon by the ramp of it just to be safe. I did this on python. Tech up to dark templar to drive them out of your ramp. Your opponents probably won't have scan. Then use your macro to just mass goons and roll over your friends.
I've done this before, albeit I'm a bit faster than you and I was probably facing worse players, but I have experienced many 1v2 and 1v3 like situations.
3v3 BGH
Ally: "Hey, I'm gonna go tech, you hold our opponents off until I get 12 carriers mmk?"
Me: "You're still going to build units before then though right?"
Ally: "Yeah, I'll still get 16 probes and 20 cannons"
edit: you can also try to cheese one of them, however it'd be a bit risky if the other player counters you eg: you said one of your opponents always makes 6 lings after pool. This probably won't happen vs 2 T or 2 40 apm players but it is a risk.
The safest thing I can think of is to defend the ramp and not go for a hidden expo, just get an early in base nexus for more probes. This is easy to do on BGH since there are 2 gas geisers and 13 mineral chunks in the main.Last edit: 2011-05-20 17:05:36 |
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| Rainalcar Croatia. May 20 2011 20:51. Posts 65 | Profile # |
TvT won't happen, I don't want to press them with something like that. You can just cunt it will be PvPZ, so I still need map recommendations beside God's Garden. We are not noobs, we played >200 games, we have a sense for the game, it's just that we, they especially, play really relaxed and easy. It's not that they will build 20 cannons/sunkens and turtle. They won't, they will build plenty cannons in mineral line and choke, but will try to expand soon, and combine armies for skirmishes. They won't send 70 lings in a line to 20MnM on choke 
I found one interesting island map, Allied Fortress. How would you play this map if P vs PZ? AFAI can see, two options exist:
1. expo first, build gateways when able, constant stream of zeals, build cannons for air protection, tech straight to recall, drop 24 zeals on their continent (or wait for 2nd arbiter to get energy to have 48 zeals). Very gas intensive (yes, really, obs are must, upgrades too), so dragoons are hard to squeeze in. If they have decent defenses they could defend, since there are two of them and if they went for air, I don't think I will be able to catch up. So that attack has to cripple them severely.
2. stargate 1st, scouts and sairs, but again Obs and Shuttle for island expo. Especially scouts, I think Toss will go ~7 sairs (which I can handle with cannons) and straight to carriers, while zerg will be slow to get mutas. I would also try to take one of the middle islands asap and not expand on the shore of my continent, but very late in the game. Issue here is that it is hard to make any ground units - very mineral intensive, so a double drop could be really difficult to stop.
I really hold that the middle is key for map control and resource advantage in a prolonged game. Opinions? Or similiar maps? |
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 xarthaz May 20 2011 22:06. Posts 1697 | Profile Blog # |
| Central Plains man. The benchmark protoss imba map, gotta love it Should even be exploitable in such a manner in 1v2 |
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| Sovetsky Soyuz Russian Federation. May 20 2011 23:03. Posts 905 | Profile # |
Whats that 3 player island map?
then you go P v ZZ. lol |
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| Rainalcar Croatia. May 20 2011 23:31. Posts 65 | Profile # |
| Central Plains looks nice How do I deal with the eggs, any tips on strategy? |
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| Rainalcar Croatia. May 20 2011 23:32. Posts 65 | Profile # |
On May 20 2011 23:03 sovetskysoyuz wrote:
Whats that 3 player island map?
then you go P v ZZ. lol
Ha ha, that would be nice, Sair mania If you can remember what it is called, let me know. |
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| MiniRoman Canada. May 21 2011 01:37. Posts 3953 | Profile Blog # |
If your friends are really bad you can do 10/12 gateway and rush each player with 1 zeal and probe sending your first zeal out to the gosuer newbie.
After attacking a newb with a zeal off a 10 gate (or 12 gate) you should basically have it won. Get two bases when you can (if they start off with just D, add your 2nd nexus and just macro like a protoss) then roll out whenever you want.
I used to 1v2 my newb friends on LT so if I could do it there, you can do it on any map that isn't lost temple. |
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| Hyperionnn Turkey. May 21 2011 02:08. Posts 4877 | Profile Blog # |
| play on iron curtain, you are gonna either kill one of them easily (if one of them spawn at same side of you) or you can macro and kill them lader |
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| MiniRoman Canada. May 21 2011 04:01. Posts 3953 | Profile Blog # |
| that basically ruins the point of a newbie 2v1 though |
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