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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread.  StorkHwaiting United States. May 25 2011 03:26. Posts 3464 | Profile Blog # |
I think the series will end with three major power blocs.
In the North:
Jon Snow is the child of Raegar, making him blood relations to Daenerys.
Daenerys can't have children, therefore Jon Snow is the only successor to the Targaryen line. She will support his claim once she crosses the Narrow Sea.
Winter is coming. Winter = Cold. Targaryens are dragons. Dragons = Fire. So who will push back the tide of winter and save the Seven Kingdoms? Daenerys of course.
Who is sworn to defend against the winter? Jon Snow.
Therefore, when winter comes, Jon Snow and Daenerys will join forces. Stannis will aid them, but he will die like all the other Baratheons in their war with the Wildlings/Others. In the end, Daenerys' dragons will win the war in the North.
In the Middle:
House Tully and Arryn will side with Sansa, due to blood relations. Littlefinger will use both these Houses to crush the Freys, as revenge for killing Catelyn. This gives him control of the Neck and allows him to tilt things in favor of either north or south.
In the South:
The Lannisters and Tyrells will go to war over the Southlands. The Greyjoys will probably play spoiler and take the side of the Lannisters and crush the Tyrells between them, while House Martell are stuck at the bottom, unable to do anything.
Once these three power blocs are established:
Lannisters will move on Baelish in the middle, while Daenerys and Jon fight the Winter.
Baelish will pay the Faceless Men to assassinate Tommen Lannister. Arya will be sent and will get the job done. The Lannisters will be in disarray. Littlefinger will also scheme some way to get the Greyjoys to betray the Lannisters to defeat Kevan and recruit the Martells for help.
Then Jon and Daenerys will head south to fight Littlefinger. The Martells will turn on Littlefinger due to their blood ties with House Targaryen. Littlefinger will lose the war and get killed. Sansa will probably be married off to some old perv. Arya will have her sight restored by magic and be reunited with Jon somewhere in the chaos of war.
Then Arya and Jon will be married, thus uniting House Stark with House Targaryen and creating peace in both North and South.
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| Skilledblob Germany. May 25 2011 03:27. Posts 2653 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 03:16 Cylon wrote:
Where do we hear that Arya is blind?
book 4 |
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| Maginor Norway. May 25 2011 03:33. Posts 505 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 03:23 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 03:21 Maginor wrote:
On May 25 2011 03:13 WhiteDog wrote:
On May 25 2011 02:44 Maginor wrote:
On May 25 2011 02:40 WhiteDog wrote:
On May 25 2011 02:30 Maginor wrote:
On May 25 2011 02:15 WhiteDog wrote:
On May 25 2011 02:05 flamewheel wrote:From http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html :
As one last tidbit of evidence, it can be said that if Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, it fits with the series name 'A Song of Ice and Fire.' Jon seems to be shaping as the main character, and it would fit the series title if his parents were Rhaegar (fire) and Lyanna (ice).
So I was discussing GoT with Wax last night before sleeping. The conclusion we came to was that Jon was ice and Dany was fire and they would go against one another in the end... or something like that. Basically because Jon is now pretty much the only character left in the series without fault. I mean, you know he's got to be something important in the end, even if he's getting ignored now. Though that interpretation above makes me think... Jon + Dany get married or something? Who knows; I actually need to read the books now instead of spoilering myself off wiki plots and internet articles. Edit: Huh, and the first comment at the end of that article came to the same conclusion I did...
Yeah even if it's quite pointless to theorize on the end of the books, I also think Jon and Daenerys will fight one against each other, until the others or any other bigger threat comes and force them to unite. Then Daenerys marry Jon (who is the prince that should come or whatever) and everybody is happy. At least that's how I see the end of the book. Daenerys have had some dream about her brother Rhaegar and how he talks about the third head of the dragon while looking at his two child, meaning Jon is the third. The problem is Martin is the guy that is known to shaken your own certitude. On the other side, he already killed almost everyone.
On May 25 2011 00:35 Mattes wrote:
Its not only Ned (although you're right, he is the main character of book 1), but the viewers who haven't read the books will experience 4 "major" deaths in 4 consecutive episodes as it seems (ep6 - visery, ep7 - robert, ep8/9 - drogo/eddard).
Yeah, probably the first time for many viewers that a show kills of a huge percentage of (at that point) important characters.
Will be interesting to see.
The main problem will not be in Season 1 I think because, even if Ned / Varys / Drogo /Robert are all great characters, they don't die letting nothing behind them: Ned has a son, Varys and Drogo's story line / legacy will still be there through Daenerys and Robert will be there through Stannis / Renly / Joffrey. My main concern is about S2, when you have Robb dying, Catelyne changing name (meaning no more grown up Starks), Renly dying (like a shit). Those characters will let nothing behind them, nobody will get revenge for them (at least not now after 4 books) and nobody will take their legacy / name through the rest of the saga.
Robb and Catelyn dies in book 3. And their deaths are just as important for driving the story forward as Neds was. The main theme of the books is not the conflict between the Starks and the Lannisters, it is just a backdrop for the first three books. And it seems to me like you try to fit the story into some kind of formula where a character was useless unless they leave an heir behind or they get revenged. That is not true. Each of them contributed in their way to the state of the world as it is now. And just as importantly, they each contributed to tell a good story. But they had to go to allow the story to progress. And in my opinion, all the interesting characters are still alive anyway. The Stark kids are going to take more active roles now. That is why Martin originally wanted a 5 year gap between book 3 and 4, and why he suggested to age them up for the tv show.
Sorry in my country the books are separated and Robb dies in the sixth or something. No it's not a formula, it's easier for the viewer if you like a character his / her death will leave a hole. You will want revenge for him or something, but that's just not how Martin write, so I just don't know how it will go on TV. The Stark kids have no activ roles, rickon is AFK and will not come again and Bran is behond the wall. Sansa changed her name and Arya too (and blind lol). There are no Stark or anyone to represent the Stark in the Game of Throne at the moment (by game of throne I mean all the shit around the iron throne). Even winterfell is destroyed. Yeah Martin wanted a gap, but it will not happen no ? I'm not really clear about that.
I said they will take more active roles. As in the future books. The characters don't have to stay in the same place. We don't know if Arya is permanently blind, and their name changes was out of convenience, not necessarily forever. We don't know if the bulk of the story is going to focus around Kings Landing for a while either. I sort of felt like the situation there was resolved in AffC, and will not change much for a while. A Game of Thrones was the name of the first book. This is the Song of Ice and Fire.
I agree with you, but it seems so far away even now. Rickon have no appearance in ADWD i think (at least not as a PoV) and Bran is beyond the wall and, with the leak Martin gave at the moment, + Show Spoiler [Spoiler for ADWD] +he has not yet see the three eyed crow. What I mean is, there is a huge hole in the story in my point of view. But, as some said the first time, since AFFC and ADWD were supposed to be the same book, maybe they will change the TV so that S4 & 5 will stay in one peace.
ADWD is mostly focused on Jon and Daenerys, actually. So the Stark kids will begin to take on more active roles, but yes, it is still some time in the future before they are major players. And the three eyed crow is a metaphor for magical abilities. It is not an actual creature. The leak could also happen pretty early in the book. Edit: Arya is made blind in the last sentence of her last chapter in AffC.
You're sure about that ?
Well, no. But did you really think there is a three eyed crow? It feels very obvious to me that it is a metaphor, especially considering the conversations with Jojen Reed in book 2 where he is trying to make Bran figure out what the three eyed crow means, and the final conclusion is that it is about greensight/magical abilities. |
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| GDbushido United States. May 25 2011 03:34. Posts 926 | Profile # |
Nice write-up Stork, but I think you're under-estimating the impact the Ironborn will have on the story.
Euron has some seriously ambitious plans, and who knows what Victarion intends to do once he finds Dany?
They'll probably all end up dead, but I believe the actions of the primary Greyjoys (Euron, Victarion, Theon, Asha) will have a large impact on the overall arc. |
| | remember not to think too much and your trip will be numbingly pleasant |
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| Bagi May 25 2011 03:35. Posts 5927 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 03:26 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Then Arya and Jon will be married, thus uniting House Stark with House Targaryen and creating peace in both North and South.
I really don't see many of the things you listed happening, but this one almost made me sick.
They grew up together as brother and sister. Their beautiful relationship would be forever ruined if this happened. |
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| N3rV[Green] United States. May 25 2011 03:38. Posts 1827 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2011 03:35 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 03:26 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Then Arya and Jon will be married, thus uniting House Stark with House Targaryen and creating peace in both North and South.
I really don't see many of the things you listed happening, but this one almost made me sick. They grew up together as brother and sister. Their beautiful relationship would be forever ruined if this happened.
Didn't stop some other kids from having a little fun now did it? |
| | Never fear the darkness, Bran. The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong. |
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| matko5 Croatia. May 25 2011 03:41. Posts 323 | Profile # |
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 25 2011 03:26 StorkHwaiting wrote:
I think the series will end with three major power blocs.
In the North:
Jon Snow is the child of Raegar, making him blood relations to Daenerys.
Daenerys can't have children, therefore Jon Snow is the only successor to the Targaryen line. She will support his claim once she crosses the Narrow Sea.
Winter is coming. Winter = Cold. Targaryens are dragons. Dragons = Fire. So who will push back the tide of winter and save the Seven Kingdoms? Daenerys of course.
Who is sworn to defend against the winter? Jon Snow.
Therefore, when winter comes, Jon Snow and Daenerys will join forces. Stannis will aid them, but he will die like all the other Baratheons in their war with the Wildlings/Others. In the end, Daenerys' dragons will win the war in the North.
In the Middle:
House Tully and Arryn will side with Sansa, due to blood relations. Littlefinger will use both these Houses to crush the Freys, as revenge for killing Catelyn. This gives him control of the Neck and allows him to tilt things in favor of either north or south.
In the South:
The Lannisters and Tyrells will go to war over the Southlands. The Greyjoys will probably play spoiler and take the side of the Lannisters and crush the Tyrells between them, while House Martell are stuck at the bottom, unable to do anything.
Once these three power blocs are established:
Lannisters will move on Baelish in the middle, while Daenerys and Jon fight the Winter.
Baelish will pay the Faceless Men to assassinate Tommen Lannister. Arya will be sent and will get the job done. The Lannisters will be in disarray. Littlefinger will also scheme some way to get the Greyjoys to betray the Lannisters to defeat Kevan and recruit the Martells for help.
Then Jon and Daenerys will head south to fight Littlefinger. The Martells will turn on Littlefinger due to their blood ties with House Targaryen. Littlefinger will lose the war and get killed. Sansa will probably be married off to some old perv. Arya will have her sight restored by magic and be reunited with Jon somewhere in the chaos of war.
Then Arya and Jon will be married, thus uniting House Stark with House Targaryen and creating peace in both North and South.
Sense, this post makes none. :D
User was warned for this postLast edit: 2011-05-25 03:41:43 |
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| Skilledblob Germany. May 25 2011 03:43. Posts 2653 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 03:35 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 03:26 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Then Arya and Jon will be married, thus uniting House Stark with House Targaryen and creating peace in both North and South.
I really don't see many of the things you listed happening, but this one almost made me sick. They grew up together as brother and sister. Their beautiful relationship would be forever ruined if this happened.
you are not alone. It's really funyn to see people come up with random theories out of boredom, just like your average conspiracy theoryLast edit: 2011-05-25 03:44:09 |
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| Abysus United States. May 25 2011 03:54. Posts 64 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 03:16 Cylon wrote:
Where do we hear that Arya is blind?
From her last chapter in AFfC |
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| Cylon United States. May 25 2011 04:04. Posts 117 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 03:54 Abysus wrote:From her last chapter in AFfC
Guess I need to reread that. |
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| Uhnno Netherlands. May 25 2011 04:20. Posts 250 | Profile # |
| It's literally the last sentence of the chapter. In my book its page 644, from the chapter ' Cat of the Canals'. |
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| Acid~ France. May 25 2011 04:41. Posts 439 | Profile # |
Dany will never fight Jon... all she wants is to conquer the seven kingdoms. Jon is commander of the night's watch, and the watch does not care who rules, they only care about what lies beyond the wall.
If there is another war in Westeros, it'll more probably oppose Dany with Stannis and/or Euron, leaving Jon (and Bran ?) alone to defend against the Others while they tear each other apart.
That is, if the Others actually turn out to be something more than just a McGuffin, which I doubt for now. Given Martin's love for the tragic, I can easily see the Others not mattering in the end, with the realm being torn to pieces anyway from the civil wars. |
| | All men must die. But first, we'll live. |
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| StorkHwaiting United States. May 25 2011 04:53. Posts 3464 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2011 03:34 GDbushido wrote:
Nice write-up Stork, but I think you're under-estimating the impact the Ironborn will have on the story.
Euron has some seriously ambitious plans, and who knows what Victarion intends to do once he finds Dany?
They'll probably all end up dead, but I believe the actions of the primary Greyjoys (Euron, Victarion, Theon, Asha) will have a large impact on the overall arc.
Well, Westeros is basically a rip-off of the British Isles. And the entire SoI&F series is inspired by the War of the Roses.
As such, the Ironborn are basically the vikings of the Orkney Islands. They always had their little fiefdom but didn't play a major part in English history nor the War of the Roses. Therefore, I don't think they'll do much more than play as a spoiler for one of the other factions. The Greyjoys actually becoming one of the major power blocs is very unlikely in my opinion despite how much screen time the Greyjoys are getting right now. Them and Dany and the Others are set as the three external forces that will enter the war. Out of the three, only Dany has any real shot at the throne IMO.
If by large impact you mean they'll help decide one of the wars, I would agree. They'll either ensure the Lannisters defeat the Tyrells and take the South. Or they'll defeat the Lannisters and take the South themselves.
About Arya and Jon. They grew up as siblings but they possibly might not have any blood relation and won't have seen each other for how long? Half a decade? Maybe more? Those years are also the most transformative ones for Arya in terms of sexual maturity.
And Jon's been on a fking frozen wall with no women in sight. In my op, no girls, old foundation of affection, long years apart, and possibly no blood ties all contribute to it being possible that Arya and Jon get together. These are the medieval ages we're talking about here. Incest happened all the time between cousins and even brother/sister was not unheard of.
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| Shaithis United States. May 25 2011 04:54. Posts 383 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 04:41 Acid~ wrote:
Dany will never fight Jon... all she wants is to conquer the seven kingdoms. Jon is commander of the night's watch, and the watch does not care who rules, they only care about what lies beyond the wall.
If there is another war in Westeros, it'll more probably oppose Dany with Stannis and/or Euron, leaving Jon (and Bran ?) alone to defend against the Others while they tear each other apart.
That is, if the Others actually turn out to be something more than just a McGuffin, which I doubt for now. Given Martin's love for the tragic, I can easily see the Others not mattering in the end, with the realm being torn to pieces anyway from the civil wars.
Agreed; one thing we can definitely expect is that there will not be a climactic encounter with some "Lord of Darkness" figure. However, I think that there will be at least one huge plot twist that is not a main character death (those have always been a dime-a-dozen in the series). Most likely, will have something to do with the Others + Joren Citadel story + Illyrio + Melisandre + some character who is revealed to be the mastermind (Varys?). |
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| Maginor Norway. May 25 2011 05:01. Posts 505 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 04:53 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 03:34 GDbushido wrote:
Nice write-up Stork, but I think you're under-estimating the impact the Ironborn will have on the story.
Euron has some seriously ambitious plans, and who knows what Victarion intends to do once he finds Dany?
They'll probably all end up dead, but I believe the actions of the primary Greyjoys (Euron, Victarion, Theon, Asha) will have a large impact on the overall arc.
Well, Westeros is basically a rip-off of the British Isles. And the entire SoI&F series is inspired by the War of the Roses. As such, the Ironborn are basically the vikings of the Orkney Islands. They always had their little fiefdom but didn't play a major part in English history nor the War of the Roses. Therefore, I don't think they'll do much more than play as a spoiler for one of the other factions. The Greyjoys actually becoming one of the major power blocs is very unlikely in my opinion despite how much screen time the Greyjoys are getting right now. Them and Dany and the Others are set as the three external forces that will enter the war. Out of the three, only Dany has any real shot at the throne IMO. If by large impact you mean they'll help decide one of the wars, I would agree. They'll either ensure the Lannisters defeat the Tyrells and take the South. Or they'll defeat the Lannisters and take the South themselves. About Arya and Jon. They grew up as siblings but they possibly might not have any blood relation and won't have seen each other for how long? Half a decade? Maybe more? Those years are also the most transformative ones for Arya in terms of sexual maturity. And Jon's been on a fking frozen wall with no women in sight. In my op, no girls, old foundation of affection, long years apart, and possibly no blood ties all contribute to it being possible that Arya and Jon get together. These are the medieval ages we're talking about here. Incest happened all the time between cousins and even brother/sister was not unheard of.
No, this is it's own story. Parts of it was inspired by the war of the roses. That is very different.
Edit: Different from having to follow British history closely, I mean.Last edit: 2011-05-25 05:23:11 |
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| StorkHwaiting United States. May 25 2011 05:43. Posts 3464 | Profile Blog # |
| Yeah, you're right. At the same time, I just don't see GRRM creating a plot where the Vikings take over. Or even come all that close. It'll come down to the major Westerosi Houses imo. I'm not really dedicated to any of my theories though lol. Just fun musings. |
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| ShadowDrgn United States. May 25 2011 05:52. Posts 2345 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2011 04:53 StorkHwaiting wrote:
About Arya and Jon. They grew up as siblings but they possibly might not have any blood relation and won't have seen each other for how long?
Wouldn't they still be cousins? |
| | Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that’s the end of you. |
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| Maginor Norway. May 25 2011 05:55. Posts 505 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 05:43 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Yeah, you're right. At the same time, I just don't see GRRM creating a plot where the Vikings take over. Or even come all that close. It'll come down to the major Westerosi Houses imo. I'm not really dedicated to any of my theories though lol. Just fun musings.
I agree that the Ironmen will not take over, just not for the reason you originally stated. I think at least some of the factions of them will aid in catalyzing some of the major events (obviously, since so many POV chapters are dedicated to them now).
I think it is almost impossible to predict what is actually going to happen. You can sort of see where some things are going to drift if (that is a big if) nobody take action and do something extraordinary. But that is exactly what is going to happen. Somebody is going to do something completely unexpected that changes the premises for the actions of everybody else. At least that is what has happened in the past. Would you have predicted the Red Wedding or Stannis going to the Wall?Last edit: 2011-05-25 05:57:06 |
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| Bagi May 25 2011 06:05. Posts 5927 | Profile # |
I'm not even saying that the Jon/Arya relationship would be unforgivable because of incest. Its the way everything is laid out.
Its the fact they have one of the strongest and healthiest relationships in the books, the perfect little sister/big brother. They both felt like outcasts in the family with their "Stark" nature, and Jon of course for being the bastard. When they think back on the family they have lost, they often miss each other the most, as they could always rely on each other for cheering up.
To have them reunite only so that they could start fucking each other would make it all a complete joke.Last edit: 2011-05-25 06:22:31 |
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| StorkHwaiting United States. May 25 2011 06:18. Posts 3464 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2011 06:05 Bagi wrote:
I'm not even saying that the Jon/Arya relationship would be unforgivable because of incest. Its the way everything is laid out.
Its the fact they have one of the few strongest and healthiest relationships in the books, the perfect little sister/big brother. They both felt like outcasts in the family with their "Stark" nature, and Jon of course for being the bastard. When they think back on the family they have lost, they often miss each other the most, as they could always rely on each other for cheering up.
To have them reunite only so that they could start fucking each other would make it all a complete joke.
Haha yeah I agree and knowing GRRM.... I'm guessing it might happen lol.
Jon and Arya would be cousins if he's Lyanna's son, but that's no big deal in their world. |
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