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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. | DURRHURRDERP Canada. May 24 2011 19:14. Posts 559 | Profile # |
On May 24 2011 18:55 Robstickle wrote:
Did anyone else laugh at them using romantic music in the Sansa Joffrey scene? Such epic trolling.
during that entire scene all i could think was "oh no he di-int" |
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| Telcontar United Kingdom. May 24 2011 19:16. Posts 15851 | Profile # |
| So 6 episodes into the first season, how is everyone finding the series? I've not been able to watch it since I've been reading through the books again in preparation for A Dance with Dragons. Is it living up to everyone's expectations and more? |
| | Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. |
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| Skilledblob Germany. May 24 2011 19:18. Posts 2651 | Profile # |
On May 24 2011 19:16 Telcontar wrote:
So 6 episodes into the first season, how is everyone finding the series? I've not been able to watch it since I've been reading through the books again in preparation for A Dance with Dragons. Is it living up to everyone's expectations and more?
so far HBO is doing a great job |
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| Uhnno Netherlands. May 24 2011 19:18. Posts 250 | Profile # |
On May 24 2011 19:14 NEwAcC) wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 18:55 Robstickle wrote:
Did anyone else laugh at them using romantic music in the Sansa Joffrey scene? Such epic trolling.
during that entire scene all i could think was "oh no he di-int"
Dont forget the index finger shaking while saying that.
The series is staying very true to the books, adding some scenes here and there. Most of the additions are pretty good and I enjoy them. The casting is pretty much spot on for Ned/Tyrion/Arya/Littlefinger so far. Very recommendable. |
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| MamiyaOtaru United States. May 24 2011 19:48. Posts 1651 | Profile Blog # |
On May 23 2011 08:45 skyrunner wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 08:28 Telcontar wrote:
On May 23 2011 08:24 1Eris1 wrote:
So I have a question. Who is the unbeatable champion referred to by Cersei and Qyburn at the end of the 4th book? I thought it was Gregor frankenstein but isnt his head being delivered to dorne as that is going on? Unless its a headless frankenstein, which would be sick
Nothing is clear but many fans theorise that it is a monster Qyburn concocted from Gregor's dying body. They did send Dorne a massive skull claiming it was Gregor's but who knows what it really is or whether or not the monster's body has a new head.
I think a theory is that the skull could be from one of the dead dwarves that were brought to Cersei. Dwarves seem to always be described as having abnormally large heads.
..compared to their bodies |
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| WhiteDog France. May 24 2011 21:19. Posts 3481 | Profile Blog # |
On May 24 2011 07:04 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 07:00 Shaithis wrote:
On May 24 2011 06:47 1Eris1 wrote:
On May 24 2011 03:31 WhiteDog wrote:
On May 24 2011 02:51 1Eris1 wrote:
On May 24 2011 01:37 WhiteDog wrote:
On May 24 2011 00:57 Skilledblob wrote:
On May 24 2011 00:54 WhiteDog wrote:
On May 24 2011 00:40 1Eris1 wrote:
On May 24 2011 00:30 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
I'm curious to know what explanation you will have to explain how Cersei act with Lancel, how she act with Qyburn or how Tywin act with Shae and the previous lover of Tyrion.
Im not arguing that all the lannisters are good, just like not all starks are. Tywin is probably evil, ill give you that, but cersei is borderline. The only person that loves her is the one person she cant be with, thats gotta be frustrating. Couple that with being a strong willed woman in a male dominated society and you start to pity her
Then tell me which Starks are bad ? Every time they killed it wasto survive/ for revenge / for power.
and the lannisters are different?
So murdering the whore of Tyrion is for survive revenge or power ? Killing a bunch of Night Guards is for power ? Using Lancel as a sexual substitution while Jaime is away, while having the intention to kill him as soon as Jaime come back is certainely to survive... Come on... Don't you see any difference ?
I don't think anyone will argue that Tywin is a good guy, but you can't just lump the Lannisters together in one big pot labeled evil. Yes, cersei and jaime have done bad things, but they've also done good things, same as certain Starks. It's not that black and white. They are very few Wholey Good characters in this book and most of them are dead or not main characters. And I don't believe Cersei ever actually said she was going to murder Lancel, I believe that was just something Tyrion was speculating.
I'd rather think you're the one too blind to see how the book was written. As it is right now, Tyrion has decided to rise against his own familly and help Daenerys while Jaime also decided to turn the head and forget about his sister. And they did that because, and since the beginning, they had remorse about what they did for Cersei / Tywin / the Lannisters. Using corpses as test subjects is not "evil" ? I'm not saying they're all "bad", like they are dark sith or something, of course it's not that easy, but they were what was closer to the main vilain during the first two books, except for Tyrion who was more or less hated by everyone in his familly except Jaime (who was non existent during the entire second book, in cell). Now sure they are changing, since Martin killed all his PoV or made them useless to the main storyline, but saying they are, since the beginning, just the "opponent" of the Starks is absolutly wrong. The first two books were written so that you take the side of Tyrion (who said he liked Jon Snow / Robert Baratheon / Ned Stark and hated Cersei / Tywin) and the whole Stark familly. That's how Martin explain the way he whrite : he makes it in a way that you take the side of the PoV. PoV of the first 2 books : Jon Sansa Arya Catelyn Bran Ned Tyrion Daenerys Davos Theon All of them are ennemies of the Lannister (yes Tyrion is too, he hate his sister / tywin more than Robert or Ned, just keep by their side because of his sense of the familly). It's actually the only thing they all have in common. Edit: I added Theon, which I had forgot like a noob, thx to my fellow TLer.
Arguing based on POV is kinda silly. To, Eddard the Lannisters are evil. To the Lannisters, the Starks are the bad ones. We see it from the point of the Starks view first, but that does not mean the Lannisters are evil. You can't simply say. Books 1-2: Lannisters are bad. Books 3-4: Lannisters are suddenely nicer people. They are the same people, + a few events, but you understand the concept. Yes, the Lannisters are probably crueler overall, but I'd argue thats a result of suffering. If you compare the families, the Starks haven't really faced hardship in the beginning of book 1, besides from Eddard. The Lannisters all have, be it losing friends, being mocked, losing loved ones, being short, etc etc. And Ned's suffering is related in a direct line to a few specific individuals, who are now dead, so he's less likely to take it out on others. And guess what, as the Starks suffer, they start to do more radical and less good acts. I like the Starks more personally, but it's not because of good/evil, but personailty rather. I don't think GRRM wanted the book to be Starks vs Lannisters with some Dragon girl on the side. It's a lot more complicated than that, and I think each individual reader maps out his own thoughts
This is a dumb post. The phrases "good" and "evil" simply do not apply to anything that has happened thus far in any of the books. The fact that you said that Eddard thinks someone is evil just says that this is not the only thing that you have misunderstood. Everyone has their own agenda. It all boils down to this. In the beginning, things were fairly clear-cut, generally along family lines, but now, it's a big mess. You are meant to identify with the Starks, as their dearly departed leader was one of the few "men of honor" in the story. This does not make his enemies evil, however.
Did you not read my post? Thats exactly what I'm arguing, that good/evil is not black and white at all, besides from a few specific individuals like Gregor, etc.
No you're the one who is since the beginning arguing around "good" or "evil". I never used that, I said the Lannister were the VILAIN, the ANTAGONIST, the bad guys.
Does not mean they are nazi who only want to destroy, but you are still supposed to take the side of the Stark, that's it, there is nothing to argue to that.
The PoV are absolutly relevant: every character that you follow are opponent / against the Lannisters for the first 2 books and, except Cersei, all the Lannister you follow AFTER the first two books are more or less getting more and more distant with the Lannisters (Jaime burning Cersei's letter, Tyrion killing his father and helping Daenerys against his own familly).
That's why I don't like how the saga evolved in AFFC, he built the entire saga around one familly who follow certain rules, getting destroyed by another familly while other event occur that are yet irrelevant to the main plot, which is the game of throne (the shit around the Iron Throne).
Then, Martin destroyed all the grown up Starks, letting only the Lannisters / a certain number of new PoV / Daenerys still away from Westeros / and a bunch of kids.
It's good to schock the readers with amazing twist and the lost of some major characters, but once you did that, you gotta think about what you let after.
And, before you came and talk to me about good and evil, I was asking, how the TV show is gonna get, when all the Starks are going to die / disappear. (Just to mention, Arya does not use the name Stark, Catelyn same, Sansa same, Jon never used it anyway, Benjen gone and most likely became "Cold Hand", the only Starks in the books are Rickon who will not be back and Bran).Last edit: 2011-05-24 21:36:44 |
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| petitdragon France. May 24 2011 23:10. Posts 22 | Profile # |
HBO is doing an absolutely awesome job with this, probably the best fantasy adaptation I have ever seen.
Quick question though, I cannot remember Loras Tyrell and Renly being lovers from the books... Was it in there ? If so was it hinted or clearly stated ? Anyways it feels pretty right, so no complaint there ^^ |
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| Telcontar United Kingdom. May 24 2011 23:12. Posts 15851 | Profile # |
On May 24 2011 23:10 petitdragon wrote:
HBO is doing an absolutely awesome job with this, probably the best fantasy adaptation I have ever seen.
Quick question though, I cannot remember Loras Tyrell and Renly being lovers from the books... Was it in there ? If so was it hinted or clearly stated ? Anyways it feels pretty right, so no complaint there ^^
Not explicitly stated but very strongly hinted. I think GRRM confirmed that they were lovers. |
| | Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. |
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| Doppelganger May 24 2011 23:24. Posts 451 | Profile # |
On May 24 2011 23:12 Telcontar wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 23:10 petitdragon wrote:
HBO is doing an absolutely awesome job with this, probably the best fantasy adaptation I have ever seen.
Quick question though, I cannot remember Loras Tyrell and Renly being lovers from the books... Was it in there ? If so was it hinted or clearly stated ? Anyways it feels pretty right, so no complaint there ^^
Not explicitly stated but very strongly hinted. I think GRRM confirmed that they were lovers.
He did indeed. |
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| matko5 Croatia. May 24 2011 23:56. Posts 323 | Profile # |
| Only thing I wonder about is how will the audience receive the execution of Ned. I mean, it was a shock to me because I never saw that done to a main character (and you have to admit, he was the mainest of them all) and then just continuing with the story like nothing "mayor" happened. |
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| Mattes Germany. May 25 2011 00:35. Posts 974 | Profile # |
Its not only Ned (although you're right, he is the main character of book 1), but the viewers who haven't read the books will experience 4 "major" deaths in 4 consecutive episodes as it seems (ep6 - visery, ep7 - robert, ep8/9 - drogo/eddard).
Yeah, probably the first time for many viewers that a show kills of a huge percentage of (at that point) important characters.
Will be interesting to see. |
| | "Eyo lesson' here, Bey. You're comin' at the king, you best not miss." |
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 Sm3agol United States. May 25 2011 00:37. Posts 2005 | Profile Blog # |
| I don't care about spoilers and never read the books...what happens to Drogo? His storyline was just getting me interested. |
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| Cayn Germany. May 25 2011 00:38. Posts 137 | Profile # |
On May 24 2011 23:56 matko5 wrote:
Only thing I wonder about is how will the audience receive the execution of Ned. I mean, it was a shock to me because I never saw that done to a main character (and you have to admit, he was the mainest of them all) and then just continuing with the story like nothing "mayor" happened.
well in my feeling just such events make the books so superior i remember the scene with Theon Greyjoy returning to Winterfell and Describing how Brann and Rickons Heads are Spiked on the Walls. It was such a harsh moment grrm's writing style and his art to killing characters u liked is great  |
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| Mattes Germany. May 25 2011 00:46. Posts 974 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 00:37 Sm3agol wrote:
I don't care about spoilers and never read the books...what happens to Drogo? His storyline was just getting me interested.
i just copy past from the asoiaf wiki
"While in Lhazar, Drogo's khalasar battled and defeated the rival khalasar of Khal Ogo. Drogo slew Ogo himself, but took a wound to the chest.
Though Drogo was unconcerned with his minor wound, Daenerys convinced him to let Mirri Maz Duur, a Lhazareen maegi (herb-woman) she had rescued, make him a poultice. The poultice itched, and Drogo tore it off, causing the wound to fester. Drogo's condition deteriorated until he fell from his horse, a symbol to his warriors that he could no longer lead them. As he lingered near death, Daenerys convinced Mirri Maz Duur to use her blood magic to preserve his life. The maegi betrayed her in revenge for the attack on her village, and the ritual only returned Drogo to a catatonic vegetable state, [...]. After Drogo would not wake up from this state, Daenerys smothered him with a pillow and built him a funeral pyre as his khalasar broke apart." |
| | "Eyo lesson' here, Bey. You're comin' at the king, you best not miss." |
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| skyrunner May 25 2011 01:23. Posts 345 | Profile # |
On May 24 2011 19:48 MamiyaOtaru wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 08:45 skyrunner wrote:
On May 23 2011 08:28 Telcontar wrote:
On May 23 2011 08:24 1Eris1 wrote:
So I have a question. Who is the unbeatable champion referred to by Cersei and Qyburn at the end of the 4th book? I thought it was Gregor frankenstein but isnt his head being delivered to dorne as that is going on? Unless its a headless frankenstein, which would be sick
Nothing is clear but many fans theorise that it is a monster Qyburn concocted from Gregor's dying body. They did send Dorne a massive skull claiming it was Gregor's but who knows what it really is or whether or not the monster's body has a new head.
I think a theory is that the skull could be from one of the dead dwarves that were brought to Cersei. Dwarves seem to always be described as having abnormally large heads.
..compared to their bodies
Well that's obvious...
But not the point. There are definitely enough in the text to back this up but... forget it. |
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| Acid~ France. May 25 2011 01:47. Posts 439 | Profile # |
On May 24 2011 19:09 Robstickle wrote:
At a season per book, 7 seasons, and AGOT is the shortest book. I doubt that the last book will even be out when the 3rd season finishes.
It's probably not gonna be a season per book. Storm of Swords is almost twice as long as Game of Thrones, there is no way to do it in 10 episodes without cutting out half the plotlines.
Dance comes out this July and is also longer than Storm, so if we count 2 seasons for Storm and Dance, the series will catch up to printed material by June 2017, by which point I do hope we'll have had more books. |
| | All men must die. But first, we'll live. |
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 flamewheel HANG KANG. May 25 2011 02:05. Posts 21492 | Profile Blog # |
From http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html :
As one last tidbit of evidence, it can be said that if Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, it fits with the series name 'A Song of Ice and Fire.' Jon seems to be shaping as the main character, and it would fit the series title if his parents were Rhaegar (fire) and Lyanna (ice).
So I was discussing GoT with Wax last night before sleeping. The conclusion we came to was that Jon was ice and Dany was fire and they would go against one another in the end... or something like that. Basically because Jon is now pretty much the only character left in the series without fault. I mean, you know he's got to be something important in the end, even if he's getting ignored now. Though that interpretation above makes me think... Jon + Dany get married or something?
Who knows; I actually need to read the books now instead of spoilering myself off wiki plots and internet articles.
Edit: Huh, and the first comment at the end of that article came to the same conclusion I did...Last edit: 2011-05-25 02:07:23 |
| | Clouds are making way for me. | |
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| WhiteDog France. May 25 2011 02:15. Posts 3481 | Profile Blog # |
On May 25 2011 02:05 flamewheel wrote:From http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html :
Show nested quote +As one last tidbit of evidence, it can be said that if Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, it fits with the series name 'A Song of Ice and Fire.' Jon seems to be shaping as the main character, and it would fit the series title if his parents were Rhaegar (fire) and Lyanna (ice).
So I was discussing GoT with Wax last night before sleeping. The conclusion we came to was that Jon was ice and Dany was fire and they would go against one another in the end... or something like that. Basically because Jon is now pretty much the only character left in the series without fault. I mean, you know he's got to be something important in the end, even if he's getting ignored now. Though that interpretation above makes me think... Jon + Dany get married or something? Who knows; I actually need to read the books now instead of spoilering myself off wiki plots and internet articles. Edit: Huh, and the first comment at the end of that article came to the same conclusion I did...
Yeah even if it's quite pointless to theorize on the end of the books, I also think Jon and Daenerys will fight one against each other, until the others or any other bigger threat comes and force them to unite.
Then Daenerys marry Jon (who is the prince that should come or whatever) and everybody is happy.
At least that's how I see the end of the book.
Daenerys have had some dream about her brother Rhaegar and how he talks about the third head of the dragon while looking at his two child, meaning Jon is the third.
The problem is Martin is the guy that is known to shaken your own certitude. On the other side, he already killed almost everyone.
On May 25 2011 00:35 Mattes wrote:
Its not only Ned (although you're right, he is the main character of book 1), but the viewers who haven't read the books will experience 4 "major" deaths in 4 consecutive episodes as it seems (ep6 - visery, ep7 - robert, ep8/9 - drogo/eddard).
Yeah, probably the first time for many viewers that a show kills of a huge percentage of (at that point) important characters.
Will be interesting to see.
The main problem will not be in Season 1 I think because, even if Ned / Varys / Drogo /Robert are all great characters, they don't die letting nothing behind them: Ned has a son, Varys and Drogo's story line / legacy will still be there through Daenerys and Robert will be there through Stannis / Renly / Joffrey.
My main concern is about S2, when you have Robb dying, Catelyne changing name (meaning no more grown up Starks), Renly dying (like a shit). Those characters will let nothing behind them, nobody will get revenge for them (at least not now after 4 books) and nobody will take their legacy / name through the rest of the saga.Last edit: 2011-05-25 02:22:48 |
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| Maginor Norway. May 25 2011 02:19. Posts 505 | Profile # |
On May 25 2011 01:47 Acid~ wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 19:09 Robstickle wrote:
At a season per book, 7 seasons, and AGOT is the shortest book. I doubt that the last book will even be out when the 3rd season finishes.
It's probably not gonna be a season per book. Storm of Swords is almost twice as long as Game of Thrones, there is no way to do it in 10 episodes without cutting out half the plotlines. Dance comes out this July and is also longer than Storm, so if we count 2 seasons for Storm and Dance, the series will catch up to printed material by June 2017, by which point I do hope we'll have had more books.
That is kind of innacurate. The first and third books are approximately 800 and 1100 pages respectively (US paperback). That warrants 3-4 more episodes in season 3, but not an entire extra season.
And I don't think we have to wait for 5 more years for the next book. They were delayed due to unforeseen plot complexities and Martin having to rethink the way he wanted to do the transition between the first and second part of the series (originally it was going to be a five year gap, but it didn't work out). It was not due to lazyness on his part, only perfectionism. It didn't happen for the first three books, and the last two books may be easier to write now that he has gotten through the hard transition bit.Last edit: 2011-05-25 02:24:06 |
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| lixlix United States. May 25 2011 02:26. Posts 403 | Profile Blog # |
| Well if the Rhaegar Lyanna theory is true, Dany would be Jon's aunt so her marrying him would be kind of sick. |
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