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| Geos13 June 01 2011 06:13. Posts 420 | Profile # |
I think many of the more casual players love the colossus so removing it might be hasty. What it is about 35% of players are in bronze and I'm guessing many of them don't participate in online discussion like this one on team liquid so their voice is not heard. I'm not saying the game should be balanced around casual players but that a solution that rebalances the colossus would be ideal. I like the idea of making them really slow like the reaver and maybe making their attack animation slower so that the opposing player has time to pull back his units would allow for more micro and positioning.
I guess I'm personally fighting for the colossus because despite all of its issues it is a beautiful looking unit.  Hope they find a way to make it work. |
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| Probe1 United States. June 01 2011 06:15. Posts 16445 | Profile Blog # |
| Bronze is 20% like all the rest up to diamond (18) Master (2) |
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 roymarthyup June 01 2011 06:17. Posts 1442 | Profile # |
On June 01 2011 05:26 roymarthyup wrote:
i really dislike the idea of removing units
i cant think of any unit in the game right now that could be removed without completely wrecking balance in some way
On June 01 2011 05:45 Paladia wrote:
I can think of several. Just from one race, you can remove carrier and mothership without unbalancing anything. If it wasn't for the fact that you need drops to reach expansions on some maps, you could even remove the warp prism without too many issues and up until recently archons wasn't really used either.
One thing to note is that the units will likely be replaced, not just removed and as such a new unit could fit a similar role or make up for it in another way.
I really dislike the marauder, roach, stalker trio as tier 1.5 units for both races. They are way too similar and makes for a very uninteresting dynamic. Compared for example to the dynamic of dragoon and vulture in BW.
im a master protoss
mothership is my KEY to winning lategame ZvP. it allows me to have a large force go around sniping expansions and i teleport away when in trouble
also carriers help me win lategame ZvP because my 1-2 stargates can now crank out some pretty darn cost effective units. 3 carriers with upgrades are pretty good in my army and the voidrays do some nice damage too. carriers cost effectively beat hydras and force corrupters which my voidrays eat alive |
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| Paladia June 01 2011 06:21. Posts 799 | Profile # |
On June 01 2011 06:17 roymarthyup wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 05:26 roymarthyup wrote:
i really dislike the idea of removing units
i cant think of any unit in the game right now that could be removed without completely wrecking balance in some way
Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 05:45 Paladia wrote:
I can think of several. Just from one race, you can remove carrier and mothership without unbalancing anything. If it wasn't for the fact that you need drops to reach expansions on some maps, you could even remove the warp prism without too many issues and up until recently archons wasn't really used either.
One thing to note is that the units will likely be replaced, not just removed and as such a new unit could fit a similar role or make up for it in another way.
I really dislike the marauder, roach, stalker trio as tier 1.5 units for both races. They are way too similar and makes for a very uninteresting dynamic. Compared for example to the dynamic of dragoon and vulture in BW.
im a master protoss mothership is my KEY to winning lategame ZvP. it allows me to have a large force go around sniping expansions and i teleport away when in trouble also carriers help me win lategame ZvP because my 1-2 stargates can now crank out some pretty darn cost effective units. 3 carriers with upgrades are pretty good in my army and the voidrays do some nice damage too. carriers cost effectively beat hydras and force corrupters which my voidrays eat alive
You may use them but obviously the best Protoss players in the world doesn't use them and still win (in fact they likely win partly because they do not use them), as such, it would not unbalance the game in any way to remove them.
I do not think Carriers should be removed however, just rebalanced to be more useful. |
| | I can no longer rest under the tree of wisdom, since you have axed down the roots feeding it. |
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| Whitewing United States. June 01 2011 06:28. Posts 5720 | Profile # |
On June 01 2011 06:07 Tor wrote:This is to court small developers like those who make games for the ipad etc. I would think. It will guaranteed have no effect on normal laddering. And since the games will be associated with a marketplace instead of standard custom maps, it will likely have no effect on custom map makers. I guess the idea is that if you give developers a way to make money then you give them incentive to raise quality.
It's still a worrisome precedent. |
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| DirtYLOu June 01 2011 06:29. Posts 575 | Profile # |
| Can't wait for any multi news tho T0T xd Last edit: 2011-06-01 06:30:03 |
| | http://sc2ranks.com/c/9051/slayersteam/ <-- SlayerS players in Grandmaster ! |  |
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| Tor Canada. June 01 2011 06:31. Posts 225 | Profile # |
On June 01 2011 06:08 ManyCookies wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 05:45 Tor wrote:
This approach is about creating different mechanics that could be used to make the game more interesting. It has flaws because it's not actively addressing a gameplay concern, however; designing units for fun and designing units to address gameplay don't necessarily cancel eachother out. You can do both at the same time.
Now i'm not saying blizzard is perfect and that they'll design a great unit every time. But I don't think you can immediately rule out blizzards design philosophy of fun first just because you think they're going to ignore healthy gameplay.
Right, I'm not saying that "fun" abilities will lead to inherently bad design. But they need to address gameplay issues to actually be fun. In the Reaper's case, the cliff-jumping ability complements their status as a harassment unit, allowing them to bypass static or relatively immobile defenses (without being, say an air unit). But would giving Spore Crawlers the ability to cliff-jump make them significantly more interesting or dynamic as a unit? Obviously, that's an extreme example, but designing the "fun" abilities first, then placing them into a unit role, can lead to pitfalls where the ability doesn't really complement the actual unit role, or at least not as effectively as another ability or design could.
I just don't think blizzard is ignorant of this fact. They might be a little stubborn with their unit concepts, but we won't actually know until we get some real details about the HotS multiplayer.
I personally hope they address the collosus, remove or make the reaper more viable, fix or replace hsm on the raven, and create a healthier more dynamic pvp game and perhaps even find a way to make zvz go past the 20 drone mark. And hopefully blizzard will surprise me with more fun and interesting game mechanics and gameplay interactions.
If you take SC as an example they seemed to add units to fill gameplay holes. Granted that was a long time ago. edit WC3 TFT however came with fairly large changes, with new armor types bringing readjustments to unit roles, and new units and heros providing more options and opportunities. It also came with, in my opinion, massive improvements to the concept of the campaign.Last edit: 2011-06-01 07:07:06 |
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| Nazeron Canada. June 01 2011 06:36. Posts 1032 | Profile # |
| OMG, so excited for the expansion, crossing my fingers for new zerg units for MP |
| | (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |  |
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 Zelniq United States. June 01 2011 06:39. Posts 6936 | Profile Blog # |
On June 01 2011 06:13 Geos13 wrote:I think many of the more casual players love the colossus so removing it might be hasty. What it is about 35% of players are in bronze and I'm guessing many of them don't participate in online discussion like this one on team liquid so their voice is not heard. I'm not saying the game should be balanced around casual players but that a solution that rebalances the colossus would be ideal. I like the idea of making them really slow like the reaver and maybe making their attack animation slower so that the opposing player has time to pull back his units would allow for more micro and positioning. I guess I'm personally fighting for the colossus because despite all of its issues it is a beautiful looking unit. Hope they find a way to make it work.
i highly doubt this.. i think beyond the first impression of 'heyy this war-of-the-worlds type unit looks cool!' they will soon realize it's not as fun as it looks, and will steer more towards mothership/DTs/etc. I think most casual players watch/spectate more than they play as well, and from a spectator's point of view, colossi makes for boring, huge ball attack sort of games. |
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| Torpedo.Vegas United States. June 01 2011 06:45. Posts 1842 | Profile Blog # |
I don't like the idea of removing an entire unit from the game for the sole basis that regardless how you feel about it, it would totally reset the metagame worse then it already has. The reaper thing was becoming a non issue even before the nerf into oblivion, and the 4 gate was being rejected more often then not at the competitive level. Tweaking the colossus and adding something to making a more interesting and tactical unit would be a better approach then simply removing a unit altogether and replacing it with just another unit.
I really hate the notion that the way to move forward is to completely scrap an entire unit and replace it with a new unity that will magically make everything better. This beta mentality needs to end. |
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| Sayril United States. June 01 2011 06:46. Posts 43 | Profile # |
| idk if someone asked this already but are the zerg buffs only for single player? |
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| thebole1 Serbia. June 01 2011 06:49. Posts 126 | Profile # |
ceriers are OK but they are great agenst MECH build from terrans.... but in bio build they pull out wikings wery easy.. cerriers are OK.!!!..
unites that need to be remuved revorked are : colloss. ripers,banglings,maraders(more like firebrets less like seige tanks LOW hp),thors,coropters,sentueris (Force feald removed)...mothership..
what they can add : spider mines,reavers,galioth (or something like that),arbitar,lurkers,defalors..what is that zerg AA flaying unite ? that explode that should be add insted coropters...
seige tanks buff vs armored.... spider mines... that is all Last edit: 2011-06-01 06:52:41 |
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| Jimbo77 June 01 2011 06:51. Posts 139 | Profile # |
On June 01 2011 06:46 Sayril wrote:
idk if someone asked this already but are the zerg buffs only for single player?
No info was provided for MP. |
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| Fluffet Sweden. June 01 2011 06:54. Posts 47 | Profile # |
| Such an awesome article. Thank you so much! |
| | Member of the Super Exclusive Extraordinary Gentle Mannley Club For Gentle Manne |
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| nbMifu Brazil. June 01 2011 06:54. Posts 170 | Profile # |
On June 01 2011 06:49 thebole1 wrote:ceriers are OK but they are great agenst MECH build from terrans.... but in bio build they pull out wikings wery easy.. cerriers are OK.!!!.. unites that need to be remuved revorked are : colloss. ripers,banglings,maraders(more like firebrets less like seige tanks LOW hp),thors,coropters,sentueris (Force feald removed)...mothership.. what they can add : spider mines,reavers,galioth (or something like that),arbitar,lurkers,defalors..what is that zerg AA flaying unite ? that explode that should be add insted coropters... seige tanks buff vs armored.... spider mines... that is all
Dude your english is funnier than White-Ra's |
| | Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle - Plato |
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| SeaSwift Scotland. June 01 2011 06:57. Posts 4485 | Profile Blog # |
On the Colossus, I think all that really needs to be done is the beams/rays (Thermal Lances if you are being posh) need to be more perpendicular to the Colossus facing, so that it shoots more forwards instead of sideways. This would help in a number of ways:
1) Rewards concaves/positioning vs Colossus. At the moment, getting a good concave vs Colossi is pretty much useless with smaller units such as Marines etc, in fact it can be bad to get a good concave and units naturally form into lines like that.
2) Prevents it from being good against smaller groups of units, unless they are conga-lining. I really liked the idea of punishing fast Colossus Sjow vs White-rA style by harassing etc, and while Protoss is quite weak against this already, I think more encouragement needs to be shown for harass-based styles rather than mass-units-my-blob-is-bigger-I-win.
3) Because of it being better against deeper ranks of units, it would be a lategame unit instead of a crutch, similar to the Carrier.
Other than that, I don't see it as bad, persay. Sure, more thinking could have gone into designing it's role but it is still a decent unit. |
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| The Final Boss United States. June 01 2011 06:59. Posts 1813 | Profile # |
| I like the idea of the splitting Banelings. I can't imagine having to micro marines against that hahaha that'd be crazy. |
| | Bogus Bonjwa STX hwaiting |  |
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| EternalSC Sweden. June 01 2011 07:02. Posts 313 | Profile # |
On June 01 2011 06:49 thebole1 wrote:ceriers are OK but they are great agenst MECH build from terrans.... but in bio build they pull out wikings wery easy.. cerriers are OK.!!!.. unites that need to be remuved revorked are : colloss. ripers,banglings,maraders(more like firebrets less like seige tanks LOW hp),thors,coropters,sentueris (Force feald removed)...mothership.. what they can add : spider mines,reavers,galioth (or something like that),arbitar,lurkers,defalors..what is that zerg AA flaying unite ? that explode that should be add insted coropters... seige tanks buff vs armored.... spider mines... that is all
dat spelling... |
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| windsupernova Mexico. June 01 2011 07:03. Posts 5272 | Profile # |
On June 01 2011 06:13 Geos13 wrote:I think many of the more casual players love the colossus so removing it might be hasty. What it is about 35% of players are in bronze and I'm guessing many of them don't participate in online discussion like this one on team liquid so their voice is not heard. I'm not saying the game should be balanced around casual players but that a solution that rebalances the colossus would be ideal. I like the idea of making them really slow like the reaver and maybe making their attack animation slower so that the opposing player has time to pull back his units would allow for more micro and positioning. I guess I'm personally fighting for the colossus because despite all of its issues it is a beautiful looking unit. Hope they find a way to make it work.
-Make Thermal Lance like Siege mode. Press they Hotkey, Colossi "Braces for impact" and now ut has 9 range.
Bam! I just made the colossi more strategic.
On a more serious note I love how people say that everybody hates the colossi just because they hate the Colossi.I do think it can be reworked to have more depth but I guess that is up to Blizzard to do it based on feedback than on armchair developers |
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