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TL Mafia XLII
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On June 14 2011 12:01 Varpulis wrote: A couple of guidelines for blues/players in general:
That's all that I can think of atm. If you agree, disagree, or would like to add suggestions, do so. Let's get this discussion started. This seems like a good way for dts to mason the godfather, dude. In general, though, I agree that detectives might as well save their masons to use on people that they've checked, it's a much higher chance that they are talking to town. The rest of your advice is pretty basic, but nothing wrong with it. I want to encourage everyone to save at least one of your mason recruitments for later in the game. The vets will probably get lots of mason requests, but remember that these are often the players that mafia eliminates first. | ||
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On June 14 2011 13:37 sandroba wrote: I support the zodiac list as is. This should highly discourage mafia to shoot town veteran players, as it would draw more suspicion towards the people left on the list and make those players be forced to contribute and act extremelly pro-town if they want to avoid being lynched. This should also free our medics and dts to protect/check elsewhere for the same reasons. This entire post is already in BC's post. You didn't say a single thing that he didn't say. | ||
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On June 14 2011 13:44 Scamp wrote: I'm already sick to death of the talk about the mason system going around so far. Is it really that important to save your mason choices for later and/or not use any early? Quite personally I find the whole mason thing to be useless. People really seem hung up on it so maybe there's something about it I'm not getting. What can you accomplish with it? You get a nice town circle going? I already know of a place the town circle can talk, it's called the thread. Everyone in the circle has to be a confirmed townie, and if you're a confirmed townie then everyone knows it. Obviously this mason thing can change if you're a DT and if you're a DT I hope you're smart enough to use it well. I don't know if you've ever played a pm game of mafia before, but it can be very beneficial to discuss things with only one or two people that you trust to be town. You can make plans and lay traps for mafia. Don't underestimate the power of your mason ability. | ||
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On June 14 2011 13:49 sandroba wrote: @wiggles I described this scenario on my original plan. If I'm mafia 1)I'm risking to be insta outed by a DT check 2)If I lie and claim someone checked me, if there is a DT who actually checked me (which I have no way of knowing since he won't mason me if I return red) he can istantly out me as mafia. So no, in that scenario there is no possible bad outcome for town. 1) You could be a miller 2) DT has to reveal himself to out you, either in the thread or to someone chosen randomly that he has no idea if he can trust. | ||
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On June 14 2011 13:52 Scamp wrote: You give me one good example of this happening in a previous mafia game or I vote for your lynch day 1. One of the regular games, I cant remember which. 36 or 37 maybe? jackal and ver used PMs to work together hunting the scum team. Near the end, they determined in PM that deconduo was probably the godfather, but they acted in the thread like they thought deconduo was innocent, giving him a false sense of security. Before they died, they revealed the truth and deconduo was lynched, winning town the game. | ||
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On June 15 2011 04:39 Scamp wrote: GGQ that is an example so you don't get auto-voted. But it's still pretty weak to me. You have one of the best analyzers (Ver) and only one other person setting a trap for someone who they found suspicious long before any PM-traps happened. I'd have to see exactly what happened but I highly doubt anything involving PMs was the true cause. The PMs didn't singlehandedly win the game, no, but the ability for pro-town forces to discuss in private allowed them to trick the mafia into thinking they were safer than they were, drawing them into complacency and lazy posting. I'm not even sure what the issue with my original post was. I'm just encouraging people to use every tool the game gives us rather than dismiss them as useless or unimportant. | ||
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-Hiro brought it up as part of a question to sandroba about why his activity has dropped since night 1. He asks if sandroba is still intending to use his plan, but in the next post he states that he didn't mean to keep discussing the plan and rephrases his question without mentioning the plan at all. Looking back over his posts throughout the game, we see him supporting scumhunting during the night, opposing sandroba's plan, and advising people to save their mason abilities. I agree with just about everything he's said and find nothing scummy about his play so far. -Impervious brings up the plan just to say he opposes it and then moves on. Let's take a look at his other posts since n0, shall we? First he defends the use of statistical analysis to find scum, which is very bad because statistics can support any argument, and it's too easy for scum to find statistics supporting an accusation and make an 'objective' case that isn't based on any real scumhunting. He supports saving the mason ability for a few days, which is good, but look at his next post: On June 14 2011 21:02 Impervious wrote: Btw, why the hell did you bring me up? This seems like a radical overreaction to having his name simply mentioned in the thread. Ok, whatever, that's weird, let's move on. He then argues in his next two posts that there should be no talking night 0 because it helps the mafia. youngminii already pointed out why quelling discussion is scummy, but let's look at what exactly Impervious says: On June 14 2011 22:10 Impervious wrote: Personally, I don't see why we should do anything right now. There's no information to get a decent target for a vigi, and the more we discuss veteran players, the more targets we present for the mafia (and, subsequently, also decrease the likelihood that a medic will protect a vet that gets targeted). Let's wait for the day post. This doesn't make any sense at all. There's no information to get a vigi target, but how will we get information without discussion? Plus, no one at all is advocating for a vigi shot on n0 anyways. Where does this come from? Also, discussing veteran players isn't giving mafia more targets. There's definitely one or two players on the mafia team who know who all the veterans are, so if one mafia knows, all the mafia know. Discussing them in the thread might actually help a newbie medic to pick a protect target. In summary, Impervious advocates no discussion for terrible reasons. His next post is an excuse for inactivity, and finally his last post, where he says that he opposes sandroba's plan, which might have been useful during n0 when we were discussing it. Even sandroba has posted saying that the plan is dead and to stop talking about it. Are you that desperate to contribute something, Impervious? The rest of the post is just generic advice, some of it good, some of it less good. Nothing about any of the players. In case you couldn't tell, I'm leaning towards Impervious being scum. He's lurking, failing to contribute anything original, and supporting anti-town behaviour. I'm not positive, but I'm feeling good enough about it to put a vote on him. Shape up or ship out, bud. | ||
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On June 17 2011 07:54 youngminii wrote: You literally just said "Doing X is a crapshoot, we should do Y. Do Z." Anyway, man this thread has become a crapfest in the past few hours. Perfect conditions for mafia to be honest. No I didnt? Impervious is lurking, contributing almost nothing, just making empty "I'm here" posts. I already looked at his posts earlier in the thread, which also answers Mataza's accusation of me bringing up Impervious way too late. No, I brought him up hours ago but no one responded to my post. I disagree with the hiro lynch, btw. I've already made a post looking at both hiro and Impervious, I didn't find hiro suspicious at all, though that was before the 'scumslip' about voting for someone that he thought was town. I'd disagree with the logic of that post, but I'd disagree that it was scummy. He just doesn't feel like a scum to me like Impervious does. Now, obviously Impervious isn't going to get lynched, but I dont like the ILJ lynch either, so I'm keeping my vote on him in protest. | ||
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On June 17 2011 10:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote: GGQ, Imp looks like a modkill. Between GG, Hiro, and ILJ, who do you think should be lynched? Changing your vote? Imp voted now, but if I had to instantly kill one of those three, probably GG. | ||
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On June 18 2011 03:16 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I don't think Impervious would have been a good lynch, simply due to the fact that he was in line to be modkilled until 20 minutes before the lynch. However, that makes it look even odder for GGQ. What he essentially did today, is throw away his vote, instead of voting for GG who would have been his choice out of the three, he kept it on Imp, who was either getting modkilled, or in any case, wasn't going to be lynched. So, his actions don't match up with what he was saying. Why not stand by your opinion, GGQ? FOS On another note, the same thing looks odd for Hiro changing his vote to pull the hammer on ILJ so close to the deadline. At the time, it was six votes ILJ, and six votes GG, with ILJ to be lynched, and Hiro only had 5 votes. To have been killed, he would have needed two people to hop onto his wagon, so his nervousness and voting ILJ simply to "save" himself, looks very selfish, if not scummy. He wasn't in any danger, but still ensured ILJ's lynch. I DID stand by my opinion. My opinion all day was that Impervious should be lynched, and I stood by it. I'm not going to switch to a bad lynch just because everyone else is ignoring a good one. You asked me a question and I answered it, but that doesn't mean I want to kill giraffe. He's just a lurker so out of those three I would kill giraffe. But I'm not satisfied with lynching lurkers, tbh, I think it's a bad way to play. And I didn't vote for him to 'save' ILJ because frankly I wasn't positive that he was town. I thought he might have been mafia, I just didn't think the case on him was good enough to warrant a lynch. By the way, I think it's always a bad idea to ignore a good lynch just because the guy looks like he's going to get modkilled. Outside of newbie games, mafia is always going to 'miraculously' appear at the last minute to vote. Lo and behold, Impervious voted. | ||
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On June 18 2011 06:57 sandroba wrote: Okay, but it's safe to assume you weren't positive giraffe was town either. So out of the 2 you would rather let giraffe live instead of jonn. What about hiro, did you think he was more likely to be town than jonn aswell? What you did was cast an irrelevant vote. You could have tryed to sway the lynch to any of the top vote getter you thought had a higher chance of being mafia, yet you did not. You said yourseld you would preffer to kill giraffe out of the 3 yet you did not act on it. You're really stretching to make me look scummy. I've already explained my vote and why I didn't push for any of the top three prospects. To answer the bold part, yes I would rather have people who find X player scummy to analyse and get X lynched (even if I'm not convinced X is mafia) so we get accusations and defenses etc to scumhunt with, than to just lynch Y player because he's inactive. Inactive lynches are bad. | ||
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On June 19 2011 05:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, like with the rest of your posts, this one refers to contributions you'll make either A) when you feel like it or B) when you catch up on the thread. In the meantime, you still have like 4 or 5 votes on you, and I for one like where my vote is at for now. I'd like for some veterans to weigh in on RebirthOfLethargy's inactivity. It's obviously bad play, it's disappointing that he isn't helping more, but he's too upfront about it for me to think he's scum because of it. The only thing fishy about his play to me is the soft hatter claim followed by the really weak DT claim. I'm more concerned about the people trying to push this easy inactive lynch. | ||
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Vigs should look into the inactives tonight, especially node seeing as he's on the zodiac list. Play or die. | ||
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On June 20 2011 04:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Worst 36 hours of my life that I can remember in ages. However I am back and my schedule is now back to standard life so I shouldn't be mia so long. To start with, I have just caught up on the thread and anyone voting for RoL unvote now. With so little discussion against his lynch it is clear mafia are content with him dying. Factor in his general acting like an ass to me would imply that if he is town he is using it to dodge night hits. Why the hell else would you be so apathetic? Now as to the two other vote targets proposed below. Hiro has two days worth of suspect behaviour, and has been on the lynch twice. IF he survives this lynch he should be getting vigi'd. Simple. Syllogism has called people out for not contributing and then barely contributed himself. He then follows it up using the excuse. Now i say this is suspect purely for one simple reason. He doesn't believe RoL would perform this way as scum, but then doesnt try to figure out why RoL is playing the way he is and still votes to kill him. He has since unvoted and has opted to analyze another player on very weak analysis. After this analysis he doesnt even back it up with a vote. Major FoS on him for now. As a new player who has a ton of expectations you don't follow through on what you expect of others, nor do you properly pressure the people you expect more from and rely on other people to do it for you. This being said your activity level throughout the day as well as attempting to do analysis (even if it was terrible but everyone starts at the bottom before learning) I am willing to give you another day to step it up. Hiro has not really done a whole lot, and the moment votes started swapping from RoL elsewhere (syllo and hiro) the thread picked up in activity from what I can see. As such it seems mafia more likely to be opposed to one of the two of these players being lynched. vote hirotheprotagonist Vigi's whichever of the two doesnt get lynched, the other should be shot. Did you just scumslip by assuming that either of these players would flip green? Anyways, I think at this point Node is the highest priority for a vig shot, we can't let people on YOUR zodiac list lurk that hardcore. | ||
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