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[G] Warden’s TvP 1:1:1 into "Terran Death Ball"

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 All
 
 WardenSC   Canada. June 12 2011 20:27. Posts 200
Profile Blog # 
Introduction:

Hello fellow TLers, I am 4K.Warden from 4Kings. I am a top 20 NA grandmaster terran player with a current record of 332-128. I have recently started streaming and viewers have asked me about my TvP build, as I mainly use biomech "Terran Death Ball" army as opposed to the conventional MMM viking army composition in TvP. Thus I have decided to make a comprehensive guide about it. I have enjoyed extreme success (~80% win rate) with this build against top tier protoss players and I believe it is one of the strongest/safest build with ample harass opportunities.
Please note that I have another account named REQchbeubc.503 and you may see some replays played on this account.

Overview:

+ Show Spoiler +

Build Order:

+ Show Spoiler +

Here are the possibilities that we would encounter after the scouting scv and hellion.

Possibility #1: The scv scouts no second gas and a lot of energy left on nexus. The first hellion scouts no second gas, and no expansion and 4 gate or just 1 gate.
+ Show Spoiler +

Possibility #2: The scv or the first hellion scouts no second gas and 1 gate cybercore into fast expansion.
+ Show Spoiler +

Possibility #3: The scv scouts early second gas (second gas already mining) and a lot of energy left on nexus. And the first hellion scouts 3 gate in protoss player’s base.
+ Show Spoiler +

Possibility #4: The scv scouts early second gas (second gas already mining) and a lot of energy left on nexus. Then the hellion scouts either 1 or 2 gate into stargate and production of phoenix. (You can see this from the stargate animation).
+ Show Spoiler +

Possibility #5: The scv scouts early second gas and not much energy left on nexus and the first hellion scouts 3 gate.
+ Show Spoiler +


Possibility #6: The scv scouts early second gas and the first hellion is denied scouting by 1 zealot 1 stalker or 2 stalkers.
+ Show Spoiler +

Possibility #7: The scv scouts early second gas and the first hellion scouts 3 gate with a robo and the protoss player is not bothering to expand.
+ Show Spoiler +

Possibility #8: Dealing with “safe” protoss builds – The buildup of “Terran Death Ball”
+ Show Spoiler +

Ending/Credit: I welcome any constructive feedback/criticism on this guide. Please take your time to read them as I have put a lot of time into it Lastly I have a stream on TL under the name WardenSC so if you would like to see this build in action or my plays vs other match ups please feel free visit my stream. I regularly commentate and provide reasoning behind my strategy and play style on the stream.

Stream Link: www.own3d.tv/live/195635/
FourKWarden.183

Last edit: 2012-01-15 01:23:46
Old Post

 
 Daniel C   Hong Kong. June 12 2011 20:33. Posts 1434
Profile # 
Great! I think the Terran community has been waiting for this for a long time. Bio-based builds get boring after a while and to be honest it's weak to alot of colossus timings. Not to mention it's not that great against the protoss deathball. Thanks and I'm checking it out now
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
Old Post

 
 Detri   United Kingdom. June 12 2011 20:56. Posts 531
Profile # 
Nice post, time to watch some replays :D
The poor are thieves, beggars and whores, the rich are politicians, solicitors and courtesans...
Old Post

 
 anastacia   Sweden. June 12 2011 21:07. Posts 324
Profile # 
I'll definetly try this out later Thanks.
hacker and programmer - the2me4u on skype
Old Post

 
 JonnyLaw   United States. June 12 2011 21:13. Posts 1677
Profile Blog # 
Very well written post. I particularly enjoy seeing the logic behind your attacking timings based on scouting information.
Old Post

 
 -Aura-   United States. June 12 2011 21:14. Posts 209
Profile Blog # 
In the build order spoiler box you forgot to include the first rax. The build seems interesting, but what do I know, let's get some higher level players to comment on it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Liquid get more Terrans please...
Old Post

 
 ReachTheSky   United States. June 12 2011 21:18. Posts 2342
Profile # 
awesome guide warden!. its good to see more 1-1-1 users since straight up bio play has gotten really really boring. The great thing about your guide is that your only showing a straight up reactive guide, this doesn't count out all the other builds you could do with a 1-1-1 in a best of x series or w/e once ur opponent has sniffed out ur playstyle. A+++ hope u get featured too btw, Fograw and i miss you ;P
Internet Police
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 Teim   Australia. June 12 2011 21:42. Posts 362
Profile # 
Sweet! My worst match up at the moment is definately TvP. The heavy bio builds feel so fragile. I decided to try a mech build (with a few marauders) just a few minutes ago and even though I made it up as I went, it felt sooo much more safe and solid.

Definately going to study this over the next couple of days.
A duck is a duck!
Old Post

 
 Daniel C   Hong Kong. June 12 2011 22:03. Posts 1434
Profile # 
I like how half the builds recommend going semi all-in with 12 SCV's upon scouting certain events....really goes to show the power of timing attacks at the highest level

One question Warden: how about nexus first? Do you still go thor all-in? I guess the protoss would have more units than 1 gate FE. (Actually, in Possibility 2 do you mean 1 gate FE or 1 gate core FE?)
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
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 TurboMaN   Germany. June 12 2011 22:07. Posts 404
Profile # 
Great post, I really appreciate your work!
Takes a little time to adapt this to my game, but I'm gonna take a look.
Old Post

 
 Allied   United States. June 12 2011 22:08. Posts 129
Profile Blog # 
thanks so much this is incrediable help in the matchup for me
twitter: @AlliieD
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 WardenSC   Canada. June 12 2011 22:09. Posts 200
Profile Blog # 
Yes I would go thor all in against nexus first builds and in possibility 2 I mean 1 gate core FE. I guess I should probably specify that Also thx for the positive feedback guys <3
Last edit: 2011-06-12 22:14:49
Old Post

 
 Daniel C   Hong Kong. June 12 2011 22:13. Posts 1434
Profile # 
Second question: How about 3 gate robo with earlier immortal bust? (as opposed to colossus). Immortals can chew through bunkers and absorb tank shots. Can you safety hold your nat with 1 barracks worth of marines? How would you tell if it was immortal vs colossus anyway?
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
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 007Kain   Austria. June 12 2011 22:14. Posts 388
Profile # 
Woah thanks for the nice guide. Will definitly watch the replays and try your style. I always tried to find a good way to add mech units in TvP but its kinda hard to get the ratio right.

And I really like that you listed all the scout possibilities, overall one of the best guides on this side I saw up to now.
Jae DonG || Ret || HerO || NaNiwa || MVP || Demuslim
Old Post

 
 Huggerz   Great Britain. June 12 2011 22:15. Posts 918
Profile # 
Amazing guide thank you. Thor all ins are probably my favourite!
I have always tended to get earlier ghosts, a second starport and double engineering bay but I'm happy to see tank / hellions thrown in for good effect.

I would sort of question why you make marines at all after the mid game, they don't do much damage and you have blue flame hellions to melt the zealots

But otherwise I really really like it
“It's like poker. You can play your best, but you've got to know when to fold your cards and take a rest, and know when to hold your cards, hold your breath and hope that nobody else is stacking the deck."
Old Post

 
 perser84   Germany. June 12 2011 22:16. Posts 393
Profile # 
my question is how you scout with hellion if his units stays on the ramp ?
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 Daniel C   Hong Kong. June 12 2011 22:17. Posts 1434
Profile # 

On June 12 2011 22:16 perser84 wrote:
my question is how you scout with hellion if his units stays on the ramp ?


See possibility 6
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.
Old Post

 
 WardenSC   Canada. June 12 2011 22:21. Posts 200
Profile Blog # 
To answer the question regarding the earlier immortal bust with 3 gate robo, it should be actually easier to hold than 1 base collosus. Its a reactored rax so you would produce 2 marines at a time and with 2 bunker full of marines + tanks and banshees it should be manageable to hold off the push. However you may have to focus fire on stalkers using your tanks while using marines and banshees to snipe the immortals and bring scvs for repairing bunkers. If you watch replay #7 the protoss player attempts immortals+stalkers bust with 2 robos (eventhough the push comes later) and I am able to defend against it without too much danger. To scout for whether the protoss player's going immortal or colossus heavy 1 base play, you can either sacrifice a scv into his main for scouting or scan his main (which I never like to do, I am a firm believer that scanning for the purpose of scouting is gambling at best.)

Marines have one of the highest DPS in the game and it's never a bad idea to have them in a battle They are especially important versus phoenix collosus based army.
Last edit: 2011-06-12 22:29:01
Old Post

 
 kaisr   Canada. June 12 2011 22:22. Posts 691
Profile # 
ridiculously good guide. tyvm.
Old Post

  Eleaven   June 12 2011 22:54. Posts 771Profile # 
Wow, sick guide.
Transitioning into some terran play lately, and i've got a P practice partner who i can abuse all day to learn the MU a bit.

Thanks, such a nicely done guide, with reps too.. :D.

New hero
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