World at War 2 Mafia
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sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
Just don't fucking nuke until we have good info to analyse. Save your nukes today. Don,t fucking counter nuke before considering very hard if the player who is nuking you is scum. | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
We are going to treat all days as being 24 hours (We could consider starting this day2, up for discussion). Every day we vote for who to lynch in the first 24 hours and that player will claim how many lives he has (town player has no reason to lie and if he does he gets lynched anyway) and we will fire that amount on him. If a player claims unkillable by nukes like coag we launch 2 and if he's not dead we lynch him. Those will be the only nukes fired every day and it's safe to assume world radiation will not be reached this way. Every player has at least 1-2 nukes and the op says the radiation level needs to be "fairly high" for the conspirator to win. If anyone else fires a nuke he gets auto lynched NOT nuked back. If we follow this plan we will have 2 lynches every day for every night kill axis has. Needless to say this is extremelly advantageos for us since: 1) Prevents conspirator from winning the game. We can stop using this tactic any time when the game gets tilted in allies favor. 2) Gets us 2 lynches everyday and prevents people from random killing other players. | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
If a player has no nukes, can he still fire like in WaW? If he can will it count towards the nuclear phase limit (last nuke has to land)? How much time does it take for a nuke to land? Does the day automaticaly end after the last nuke has fallen or is it fixed 48hrs? When exactly the nuclear phase begins? As soon as day starts or as soon as the first nuke is fired? | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
On July 05 2011 15:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I don't think GM's plan is entirely realistic, as it is hard to control people, and also retaliatory strikes are going to cause a lot of unwarranted bloodshed. Beyond that, I don't think a 50% consensus is actually a very strong thing to kill off of. Rather, kills should be based off of strong reasoning and analysis, and if it can be proved there's sufficient reason to nuke, we nuke. One thing that RTM taught me, is that town is eager to bandwagon on any kind of analysis, so long as it's formatted nicely, and makes a bit of sense. Look at the case brought up against sinani201 for example, which just pointed out bad play, but not how he was scum. I'm sure you could get a majority vote for firing on that, but for me, it's not strong enough to actually kill on, even if half of town agrees to it. Does that make sense? Majority rule isn't always right. Random nuking = bad Nuking with discussion = good Nuking off strong reasoning and discussion of that = better Also, I just read San's plan: It's alright, except for a couple things. -A mislynch on town will lead to probable retaliation on his accusers. The townie has KP, and he will try to fire it at who he thinks is scum before he dies. -A lynch on scum that way will cause him to fire off all nukes into town. -Scum can lie about the number of nukes he can be hit by, in order to waste town KP and increase the radiation level more, stopping further strikes from town and mafia for fear of losing. This works because nukes are not instantaneous. I think this actually will end up with a lot of nukes fired, and a lot of dead townies, due to the nature of it, and as soon as nukes start to be fired, it makes it easier to fire more. We should almost propose an armistice except for rare circumstances, maybe. =/ ok regarding your coments: 1- Scum loses to radiation too. If they don't care they will fire it regardless when it seems they are about to die. I'm guessing people may have anti-nukes to shoot those nukes not fired in the proper time down. Townie should never nuke when hes about to die if we follow this plan. I can't agree to shut down a good plan based on possible dumbness of others. 2- Town nukes will not be used in another manner and it's safe to assume we have plenty so wasting is not a problem. Also who nukes is based on player list. This not only provides information but also makes scum "waste" their nukes too. Scum has no reason to lie about number of nukes that kill them as they also lose to radiation. Of course if a person claims that it requires 4 nukes to kill them we nuke them twice and lynch them if they survive. This is to make sure scum can't deter us from double lynching. We have to all agree to never launch nukes except in those controled circumstances. I think trading all random kp town has for a double lynch every day is a damn good trade. | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
On July 05 2011 15:52 Eiii wrote: sandroba wins the 'worst plan' award. Anyone trying to propose we fire the nukes in a controlled, safe manner is either living in a fantasy world, or eager to watch the world burn! As far as I can tell the whole nuke thing is going to be a huge clusterfuck and I don't know if there's really anything that can be done to stop it. I'm going to go flip through the last WaW game because I have no clue how the nuclear phase works at all from the description given :x ???? My plan is bad because you KNOW it's not gonna work? How exactly? If people fire nukes not following my plan they get lynched, not nuked back. OK so you are saying nuke is going to be a cluster fuck and nothing can be done. If you are town why don't you conceed already then? Or maybe that's what you want because you are mafia. I agree with you that if we don't actively try to control this shit that's what most likely is going to happen. Ask yourselves the question: Which is better: a fuckton of dayvigs nuking randomly or 2 neat lynches per day? | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
On July 05 2011 15:51 Curu wrote: Considering that radiation levels increase on any sort of activity (hitting someone with multiple lives, dud missiles counting) then I think it's somewhat safe to assume that the nuclear cap is somewhat high. Last World at War had 34 nukes spread among 22 countries with 9 as the max radiation level. This game, assuming an average of 1.5 nukes per person (29 people), then we have about 43 nukes total. So I’m going to preemptively place the radiation level at around 12. Just my analysis based purely on the previous game. Take from it what you will. We already seem torn on how to use the nukes. In most town bandwagons there’s going to be at least a few scum so the lynched will probably fire some nukes. I kind of like sandroba’s suggestion but I think only in advantageous situations where a good scumread can be obtained (ie if we lynch a scum and he flips red). It’s much harder to get reliable scumtells on a flipped green. Still let’s not be too hesitant to use nukes. The advantages the scum have in Mafia games are that: 1. They start with more information than anyone else 2. They have unified KP With the nuke mechanic giving Town a share of that second advantage. We just have to figure out the best way to use it first. Guess exactly what we need to produce good information? Lynches. | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
On July 05 2011 18:18 prplhz wrote: I think the whole idea that nukes can be used in a controlled way is absurd .. it may work but if it backfires it could really mean disaster and I don't think it's worth the risk. I suggest we just go about this game as if noone would have any reason to nuke ever unless they are conspirators. The whole "I think maybe we can use this many nukes before the earth self destructs" is a pretty bad gamble. Imagine if someone suggested it irl. So far I'm pretty skeptical towards sandroba and GMarshal 'cause they are quite foolishly proposing that we use nukes in a controlled way, something that can only lead to disaster. Not so much about Chaos13. Also stop talking about confirmed scum. I sugest you go read WaW 1 before posting nonsense like this. How is controling nukes is gonna lead to disaster as oposed to NOT controling nukes? It's been proven already that if we don't control it leads to many townie deaths. People nuke each other out of spite and because someone else nuked a player and he flipped town. Mafia has measly 1 kp this game, if we get 2 days worth of lynch per night we are going to rape them, unless people go about killing each other. @Palmar can you provide reasoning as to why this plan is bad? | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
If you think this plan does not benefit town make sure to explain why in detail, because all I'm reading is "oh the plan is bad", "it's not going to work", "it's gonna lead to disaster". @prplhz think of this in terms of balance: There are 30 players with multiple nukes. If just a few nukes per day would trigger conspirator wincon, it would be pretty damn easy for him to win don't you agree. If we leave it to players decision we risk it much more. Think about it. | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
@Eiiii If this game is like the previous some players have anti-nukes. If any nukes are fired without concesus a town aligned player with anti-nukes shoots it down and we *lynch* the player who used it, not nuke them back. Same goes if the guy who's about to get lynch gets stupid and retaliates. But then again this plan will reduce and even nuliffy retaliation as we can for example say that the first and second player on the player list (that's active at said moment) that *hasn't voted* for the guy has to fire the nuke. Many tweaks can be made, the important part is double lynch and no rogue nukes flying around. | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
Vigs work well because they are hidden and can claim their shot in thread afterwards to confirm themselves etc (since they are protown in most setups). Nukes are NOTHING like that because they have to be announced in thread, which tends to generate hate and retaliation when the player flips green and turn into a chain reaction of townie deaths. Independant thinking is gonna lead us to disaster, you can mark my words (or read WaW 1). If you want to nuke a player that badly just fucking explain us why and we will vote on it. | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
On July 05 2011 18:44 prplhz wrote: @sandroba I sugest you go read my post before posting nonsense like this. I never suggested that controlling nukes is bad, it would be great if town could fully control all nukes and get pretty much unlimited KP, but this is not going to happen. And I think that the whole idea that maybe it could happen is naïve at best. So you pretty much agree with the plan, you think if we could control it it would be great, but you disagree based on the possibility that others might disagree with it. That's a nice reasoning right there. Of course if every one starts disagreeing based on this no one will ever agree to anything. If you think controling nukes is good go ahead and agree to it and let others decide for themselves. The only way to make it happen is to support it and act on it. If we get most players to agree to lynching anyone that shoots without concensus and to shoot down any rogue missiles we can enforce this pretty easily. | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
Based on last game the amount of nukes you have depend on country not role. Vanilla townies/blues/scum all can have no nukes. | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
There's no fucking way conspirator(s) are going to have multiple nukes and it's very unlikelly they even have nukes. If we feel we are getting close to threshold we can stop the double lynch. I assure you if we leave it to players independent decision we are gonna lose regardless. If we go by my policy we are gonna win much sooner than the limit is even close to being reached. | ||
sandroba
Canada4932 Posts
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