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 swanized Canada. July 28 2011 13:46. Posts 2457 | Profile Blog # |
Zero #1 zerg by ELO
and the #4 zerg by ELO is... KILLLLLLLLAAAAARRRR FUCK YEAH
edit: amusingly enough watching the elo made me realize shark is higher on the ELO rank then juniLast edit: 2011-07-28 13:48:49 |
| | GGPlay>Zero>Neo.G_Soulkey>Jaedong>killer>rest of woongjin>everyone else| Harem is gay as shit with DTs| stop eating so much and practice Hon_sin| <3 rainbow dash |  |
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| Mortality United States. July 28 2011 15:05. Posts 4790 | Profile Blog # |
I kind of did an overview for KT's ideal at the bottom. Really the key, rather than trying to shutdown Bisu/Fanta, is to put Flash and Stats in a position where they can effectively score auto-wins, that way you only need 1 more win to secure an ace match, 2 more wins to steal the series.
And you guys are right about my accidentally overlooking Sun and Paralyze, although TBH if I'm the SKT coach I might play Sun but I won't play Paralyze. KT's line-up is very strong against Protoss. The only reason I'm playing Best in my line-up (a risk considering that if matches are selected randomly there is about a 4/6 chance he plays Zerg) is to take down Flash. |
| | Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature |
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 _romantic United States. July 28 2011 15:21. Posts 455 | Profile Blog # |
On July 28 2011 15:05 Mortality wrote:
I kind of did an overview for KT's ideal at the bottom. Really the key, rather than trying to shutdown Bisu/Fanta, is to put Flash and Stats in a position where they can effectively score auto-wins, that way you only need 1 more win to secure an ace match, 2 more wins to steal the series.
And you guys are right about my accidentally overlooking Sun and Paralyze, although TBH if I'm the SKT coach I might play Sun but I won't play Paralyze. KT's line-up is very strong against Protoss. The only reason I'm playing Best in my line-up (a risk considering that if matches are selected randomly there is about a 4/6 chance he plays Zerg) is to take down Flash.
If you had to assign odds, what would you bet? |
| | Jaedong beats other players. Bisu beats other players, in PL. Flash beats Starcraft. |  |
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| Iplaythings Denmark. July 28 2011 15:53. Posts 7085 | Profile Blog # |
On July 28 2011 05:21 Mortality wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 03:08 _romantic wrote:
On July 28 2011 02:50 Mortality wrote:
Hyuk won't necessarily be fielded in T1's line-up. Bisu, Fanta, Best, Soo, S2 and Ssak makes 6 who have all had more PL time recently than Hyuk (who has been used only 4 times in 2011). On paper Hyuk looks stronger to our eyes, but there's no way of knowing exactly what things are like in T1 house.
That makes sense. Out of those 6, which do you think is the most likely Flash sniper? Who does SKT want to keep away from Flash?
I've already discussed ace match: choice is Bisu 85%, Fanta 15% as far as I'm concerned. Whoever is planned to ace needs to plan to face Flash. For regular line-up, Best should be the choice to face Flash. Best has little chance at beating any Zerg with remotely any skill and his PvP isn't all that hot either, but his PvT might be top 3 right now in all BW and has strong head-to-head vs Flash both lifetime and recently. To keep away from Flash are Bisu and Fanta. Both these players have a very high chance of winning against pretty much any other KT player, so rather than risking them on Flash it makes sense to secure "auto-wins." Stats is potentially the other player to watch out. T1's obvious choice is Soo. Stats is a player who sometimes sucks donkey balls and other times makes you think "S-class," so you don't really want to put him against Bisu or Fanta, although it's not as bad as putting them against Flash. Ssak would get crushed by Stats and S2 and Hyuk (although I'm thinking he won't play) have some chance but just aren't as good at ZvP as Soo (although they are better at ZvZ I think -- so I'd plan to use them against KT's Zergs). Hoejja is really known for his ZvP so T1 shouldn't worry too hard about him since Bisu should walk over him and Best is an autoloss against a decent Zerg anyway. Action could be a concern because like Stats he's know for busting it out, but lately he sucks. As for Perfective, we really haven't seen enough of him for me to make an informed statement, but he appears to be yet another ZvP sniper. That's basically my game plan if I'm T1. Best v Flash Soo v Stats Bisu v Crazy-Hydra Fanta v Roo s2 v Action Ssak/Hyuk v Hoejja Ace: Bisu On the flipside, if I'm KT I want Flash to get an autowin vs a SKT Zerg, I hit Stats against Ssak/s2/Hyuk for a high probability of a twofer, I put Action on either Fanta or Bisu and probably Hoejja on the other hoping to take one of them down but not risking either of my stars, I put any Zerg against Best and try to keep Roo in a clean-up position since he's doing well there. I risk planning 3 aces. Flash is my first and Stats is my second. If Flash is too injured and Stats loses, I put in my third ace who will plan a cheese build (whoever I think has the fortitude for it).
IF skt1 gets those lineups, I will fucking eat something hard and uncomfortable cus thats a nightmare for KTright there
something ideal for KT would probally be
Sun vs Flash
Bisu vs Stats/Action
hoejja vs Fantasy
Crazy hydra vs Soo
Barracks vs s2
Hoejja vs Best
then I'd pick Stats/flash for ace depending on the map (if it's bloody ridge, stats could be sent to snipe bisu, and Stats would probally be able to beat fantasy on this map too)
thats how I see it anyways, Sun vs Flash is ideal for KT since Sun isn't known for his PvT but rather his PvZ and while I think he could be taken down by a KT zerg (since we took down movie) it''s not worth risking when you have the best tvp in the world on your team.
Cant make more likely lineups (rather than favorable) before i have the map order on my hands |
| | In the woods, there lurks.. | |
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| _romantic United States. July 28 2011 15:58. Posts 455 | Profile Blog # | |
| | Jaedong beats other players. Bisu beats other players, in PL. Flash beats Starcraft. | |
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| hitthat Poland. July 28 2011 18:11. Posts 1479 | Profile # |
On July 28 2011 15:53 Iplaythings wrote:
something ideal for KT would probally be
(...)
hoejja vs Fantasy
Ugh, I dont know it would be ideal for KT, as hoejja would have no comfort with playing against guy, who hummilated him, nuked him and erazed him in first game, and than defeated him in second game when hoejja failed every single chance to snipe his third. Offcourse hoejja improved much and Fantasy lost some of his cuteness, but he still would have mental edge over the hoejja.Last edit: 2011-07-28 18:12:12 |
| | T- Fantasy, Sea, Leta, FBH ; Z- Zero, Great, Hyuk, Hydra...kind of ; P- Bisu, Kal /// Heroes of the past and scum of the present: Hwasin, go.go ///Legacy: BOXER OOV MISTRZZZ MIDAS |  |
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| Mortality United States. July 28 2011 19:07. Posts 4790 | Profile Blog # |
On July 28 2011 15:21 _romantic wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 15:05 Mortality wrote:
I kind of did an overview for KT's ideal at the bottom. Really the key, rather than trying to shutdown Bisu/Fanta, is to put Flash and Stats in a position where they can effectively score auto-wins, that way you only need 1 more win to secure an ace match, 2 more wins to steal the series.
And you guys are right about my accidentally overlooking Sun and Paralyze, although TBH if I'm the SKT coach I might play Sun but I won't play Paralyze. KT's line-up is very strong against Protoss. The only reason I'm playing Best in my line-up (a risk considering that if matches are selected randomly there is about a 4/6 chance he plays Zerg) is to take down Flash.
If you had to assign odds, what would you bet?
It's a bit hard to put odds because KT has a lot of inconsistent players, but I definitely think the odds are with T1. KT is coming into this a bit reliant on its Zergs and most of them are known for their ZvP, but none of them should be a serious threat to Bisu. T1's Zergs are better at ZvZ.
On July 28 2011 15:53 Iplaythings wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 05:21 Mortality wrote:
On July 28 2011 03:08 _romantic wrote:
On July 28 2011 02:50 Mortality wrote:
Hyuk won't necessarily be fielded in T1's line-up. Bisu, Fanta, Best, Soo, S2 and Ssak makes 6 who have all had more PL time recently than Hyuk (who has been used only 4 times in 2011). On paper Hyuk looks stronger to our eyes, but there's no way of knowing exactly what things are like in T1 house.
That makes sense. Out of those 6, which do you think is the most likely Flash sniper? Who does SKT want to keep away from Flash?
I've already discussed ace match: choice is Bisu 85%, Fanta 15% as far as I'm concerned. Whoever is planned to ace needs to plan to face Flash. For regular line-up, Best should be the choice to face Flash. Best has little chance at beating any Zerg with remotely any skill and his PvP isn't all that hot either, but his PvT might be top 3 right now in all BW and has strong head-to-head vs Flash both lifetime and recently. To keep away from Flash are Bisu and Fanta. Both these players have a very high chance of winning against pretty much any other KT player, so rather than risking them on Flash it makes sense to secure "auto-wins." Stats is potentially the other player to watch out. T1's obvious choice is Soo. Stats is a player who sometimes sucks donkey balls and other times makes you think "S-class," so you don't really want to put him against Bisu or Fanta, although it's not as bad as putting them against Flash. Ssak would get crushed by Stats and S2 and Hyuk (although I'm thinking he won't play) have some chance but just aren't as good at ZvP as Soo (although they are better at ZvZ I think -- so I'd plan to use them against KT's Zergs). Hoejja is really known for his ZvP so T1 shouldn't worry too hard about him since Bisu should walk over him and Best is an autoloss against a decent Zerg anyway. Action could be a concern because like Stats he's know for busting it out, but lately he sucks. As for Perfective, we really haven't seen enough of him for me to make an informed statement, but he appears to be yet another ZvP sniper. That's basically my game plan if I'm T1. Best v Flash Soo v Stats Bisu v Crazy-Hydra Fanta v Roo s2 v Action Ssak/Hyuk v Hoejja Ace: Bisu On the flipside, if I'm KT I want Flash to get an autowin vs a SKT Zerg, I hit Stats against Ssak/s2/Hyuk for a high probability of a twofer, I put Action on either Fanta or Bisu and probably Hoejja on the other hoping to take one of them down but not risking either of my stars, I put any Zerg against Best and try to keep Roo in a clean-up position since he's doing well there. I risk planning 3 aces. Flash is my first and Stats is my second. If Flash is too injured and Stats loses, I put in my third ace who will plan a cheese build (whoever I think has the fortitude for it).
IF skt1 gets those lineups, I will fucking eat something hard and uncomfortable cus thats a nightmare for KTright there something ideal for KT would probally be Sun vs Flash Bisu vs Stats/Action hoejja vs Fantasy Crazy hydra vs Soo Barracks vs s2 Hoejja vs Best then I'd pick Stats/flash for ace depending on the map (if it's bloody ridge, stats could be sent to snipe bisu, and Stats would probally be able to beat fantasy on this map too) thats how I see it anyways, Sun vs Flash is ideal for KT since Sun isn't known for his PvT but rather his PvZ and while I think he could be taken down by a KT zerg (since we took down movie) it''s not worth risking when you have the best tvp in the world on your team. Cant make more likely lineups (rather than favorable) before i have the map order on my hands
Hrrrm, I'd disagree. KT's ideal goes something like:
Flash v Zerg, preferrably Soo (knocks out T1's rising star and best ZvPer)
Hoejja v Bisu
Action v Fanta (hoping for Action to bring his A game S-game)
Roo v Best (autowin for KT)
Stats v Sun/Ssak/Hyuk
Crazy-H/Barracks v s2
Maybe that's not perfect, but it gives you 2-3 autowins. Another possibility is to take a bit of a gamble and try to utilize Stats on Bisu or Fantasy, but on paper that would be a bad call since Bisu is #1 PvP by ELO and Fantasy is #3 vP by ELO only 19 ELO points away from #1 Flash. If you do that, put Action on the other, move Hoejja to Best and move Roo to Sun/Hyuk/s2, Crazy-H to Hyuk/s2/Ssak. That still gives you only 2 autowins but strengthens some of your other chances so you can win without even taking it to ace.
Again, Flash is my ace, Stats a back-up, and I'd choose a third back-up as well. Possibly take a flier on Perfective as third back-up. Now that it occurs to me, if I'm T1 and whoever faces Flash is losing I tell them to deliberately practice bad gg timing in order to make Flash less able to give 100% in ace. |
| | Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature |
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| oldgregg July 28 2011 20:53. Posts 1162 | Profile # |
On July 28 2011 01:09 Mortality wrote:
Even with a tie-breaker possibility, JD can at best be #4 on the PR, and that's assuming Hydra decides to suck. No way do I see JD being ahead of Zero or Bisu right now, let alone Flash.
why should bisu be in the top 3? he's not in the OSL and has only played 3 games so far this month |
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| VGhost United States. July 28 2011 21:28. Posts 1835 | Profile Blog # |
On July 28 2011 13:46 swanized wrote:
edit: amusingly enough watching the elo made me realize shark is higher on the ELO rank then juni
This should surprise no one who has ever watched Juni play. :/ Unless he's been decent lately and I've missed it. |
| | "When you absolutely don't know what to do any more, then it's time to panic." - Johann van der Wiel | |
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| Mortality United States. July 28 2011 22:12. Posts 4790 | Profile Blog # |
On July 28 2011 20:53 oldgregg wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 01:09 Mortality wrote:
Even with a tie-breaker possibility, JD can at best be #4 on the PR, and that's assuming Hydra decides to suck. No way do I see JD being ahead of Zero or Bisu right now, let alone Flash.
why should bisu be in the top 3? he's not in the OSL and has only played 3 games so far this month
Why shouldn't he be top 3? What does the number of games he's played so far have to do with anything?Last edit: 2011-07-28 22:13:55 |
| | Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature |
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| TwoToneTerran United States. July 28 2011 22:58. Posts 7990 | Profile # |
On July 28 2011 22:12 Mortality wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 20:53 oldgregg wrote:
On July 28 2011 01:09 Mortality wrote:
Even with a tie-breaker possibility, JD can at best be #4 on the PR, and that's assuming Hydra decides to suck. No way do I see JD being ahead of Zero or Bisu right now, let alone Flash.
why should bisu be in the top 3? he's not in the OSL and has only played 3 games so far this month
Why shouldn't he be top 3? What does the number of games he's played so far have to do with anything?
Matters a lot. It's kind of an ongoing punishment that he won't get ranked as high as people in both the OSL and MSL because they play OSL games over him, and some dudes like flash sweep their OSL group. For instance, you could be one of the best players around it doesn't matter if you don't play a game for 6 months! (effort :D)Last edit: 2011-07-28 22:58:41 |
| | Remember Violet. | |
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| Mortality United States. July 28 2011 23:18. Posts 4790 | Profile Blog # |
| Yeah but JD looks to be dropping from the OSL and potentially Hydra could still drop. Even if JD is saved in a tie-breaker, I'd be inclined to say he's less hot right now than Bisu. |
| | Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature |
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| Lightwip United States. July 29 2011 00:23. Posts 5497 | Profile Blog # |
| Getting eliminated(most likely) by Hyuk and Hyvaa is pretty bad for Jaedong. |
| | If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you. | |
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| swanized Canada. July 29 2011 01:16. Posts 2457 | Profile Blog # |
I unfortunately need to be my annoying stars fanboy self and remind everyone that soulkey is 8-2 this month
Jaedong should not be ranked above bisu even if bisu barely played this month...Last edit: 2011-07-29 01:17:16 |
| | GGPlay>Zero>Neo.G_Soulkey>Jaedong>killer>rest of woongjin>everyone else| Harem is gay as shit with DTs| stop eating so much and practice Hon_sin| <3 rainbow dash | |
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| p14c Vatican City State. July 29 2011 01:53. Posts 283 | Profile # |
It looks like 2010 again with Flash having chances to win OSL, MSL and proleague title again  Even with 1 hand Flash is still dominating. |
| | Game Over, Man! Game Over! | |
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| oldgregg July 29 2011 11:06. Posts 1162 | Profile # |
i just think there are other people more deserving of a top 3 spot than bisu.
flash, killer and fantasy 3-0ed their OSL groups. zero and soulkey are 7-2 this month.
what has bisu done? won a proleague match and gotten out of his MST group, id say he's not as 'hot' as the others i've mentioned this month. his hotness for being awesome in proleague is starting to fade i think.
and there was the argument last month that bisu would be punished for not being in the OSLLast edit: 2011-07-29 11:09:20 |
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| GGQ Canada. July 29 2011 11:40. Posts 2466 | Profile Blog # |
On July 28 2011 22:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 22:12 Mortality wrote:
On July 28 2011 20:53 oldgregg wrote:
On July 28 2011 01:09 Mortality wrote:
Even with a tie-breaker possibility, JD can at best be #4 on the PR, and that's assuming Hydra decides to suck. No way do I see JD being ahead of Zero or Bisu right now, let alone Flash.
why should bisu be in the top 3? he's not in the OSL and has only played 3 games so far this month
Why shouldn't he be top 3? What does the number of games he's played so far have to do with anything?
Matters a lot. It's kind of an ongoing punishment that he won't get ranked as high as people in both the OSL and MSL because they play OSL games over him, and some dudes like flash sweep their OSL group. For instance, you could be one of the best players around it doesn't matter if you don't play a game for 6 months! (effort :D)
If you punish Bisu for not playing much this month, you are punishing him for helping his team get first place in PL and seeded into the final. If SKT had to fight its way through the PL playoffs, we would have seen more games from Bisu for sure, and judging from his recent PL performances he probably would have done quite well.
You can punish Bisu for not having OSL games to play, but you have to give him credit for not having to play any PL games. He's won what he had to win this month. |
| | you say you want a Revolution? | |
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| Dakkas July 29 2011 12:04. Posts 2385 | Profile # |
On July 29 2011 11:06 oldgregg wrote:
i just think there are other people more deserving of a top 3 spot than bisu.
flash, killer and fantasy 3-0ed their OSL groups. zero and soulkey are 7-2 this month.
what has bisu done? won a proleague match and gotten out of his MST group, id say he's not as 'hot' as the others i've mentioned this month. his hotness for being awesome in proleague is starting to fade i think.
and there was the argument last month that bisu would be punished for not being in the OSL
It's not just about having a good W/L ratio. Obviously Flash still looks to be #1 but you can't argue that Killer and Fantasy suddenly look really 'powerful' because they're winning games. Neither of them have an aura nor can you seriously say they could take Bisu on. |
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| TwoToneTerran United States. July 29 2011 13:45. Posts 7990 | Profile # |
On July 29 2011 11:40 GGQ wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 22:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:
On July 28 2011 22:12 Mortality wrote:
On July 28 2011 20:53 oldgregg wrote:
On July 28 2011 01:09 Mortality wrote:
Even with a tie-breaker possibility, JD can at best be #4 on the PR, and that's assuming Hydra decides to suck. No way do I see JD being ahead of Zero or Bisu right now, let alone Flash.
why should bisu be in the top 3? he's not in the OSL and has only played 3 games so far this month
Why shouldn't he be top 3? What does the number of games he's played so far have to do with anything?
Matters a lot. It's kind of an ongoing punishment that he won't get ranked as high as people in both the OSL and MSL because they play OSL games over him, and some dudes like flash sweep their OSL group. For instance, you could be one of the best players around it doesn't matter if you don't play a game for 6 months! (effort :D)
If you punish Bisu for not playing much this month, you are punishing him for helping his team get first place in PL and seeded into the final. If SKT had to fight its way through the PL playoffs, we would have seen more games from Bisu for sure, and judging from his recent PL performances he probably would have done quite well. You can punish Bisu for not having OSL games to play, but you have to give him credit for not having to play any PL games. He's won what he had to win this month.
I specifically pointed out how it's because he's not in OSL. He's gonna be top 5 because he dominated proleague and made it past MST. He'd have a shot at #1 if he was in OSL. |
| | Remember Violet. | |
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| jjhchsc2 Korea (South). July 29 2011 14:24. Posts 2390 | Profile # |
On July 29 2011 01:16 swanized wrote:
I unfortunately need to be my annoying stars fanboy self and remind everyone that soulkey is 8-2 this month
Jaedong should not be ranked above bisu even if bisu barely played this month...
i am so sad that this is true....
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| | Lee Ssang/ Lee Shin/ Kim Jung Woo/ Kim Min Chul/Jun Tae Yang/Park Soo Ho/Lee Jung Hoon/Choi Sung Hoon/ Moon Sung Won/Park Ji Soo/ Lee Ho Joon/ Jang Min Chul/ Kim Seung Chul/SaSe/IdrA/Ret Fighting! BW4Life |  |
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