| Two_DoWn United States. July 27 2011 06:53. Posts 7272 | Profile Blog # |
| Ya. 1v1 he still beats anyone, but he already did that. It is easier to get to 100% crit, provided you get to build up fury before fighting. But he looks like he is even harder to farm than before. Like even worse early game. And he is still fucked if you have taric. |
| | Cry havoc and let slip the hogs of war~ |
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| Kaniol Poland. July 27 2011 07:22. Posts 3102 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 06:39 Two_DoWn wrote:
Saint destroying the trynd remake on his stream. Have to agree, he looks VERY unimpressive.
I just dont get it. Most top players, or anyone with a brain can play a character once and tell if he is any good. Maybe you miss an item build, but you can generally tell if the kit has any sort of cohesion. Does riot just never play these remakes out?
I disagree, why everyone thought that urgot was crap, same with irelia after they removed locket and actually many more champs - sure they may have been buffed/changed in the meantime but still weren't picked right after they got buffed (for irelia it took Atlanta like a month? of playing before she became close at all to FOTM).
What's Monkey's cost?Last edit: 2011-07-27 07:24:17 |
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| Shikyo Finland. July 27 2011 07:23. Posts 20596 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 06:53 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ya. 1v1 he still beats anyone, but he already did that. It is easier to get to 100% crit, provided you get to build up fury before fighting. But he looks like he is even harder to farm than before. Like even worse early game. And he is still fucked if you have taric.
I think I'll start rushing spirit visage and cdr boots, and use cdr runepage with 11-0-19 for 40% cdr for his Q heal
Monkey is 6300Last edit: 2011-07-27 07:24:37 |
| | "I shall wait for you in death's halls, my Love (love love love love~)" |
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 NeoIllusions United States. July 27 2011 07:39. Posts 18526 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 07:22 Kaniol wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 06:39 Two_DoWn wrote:
Saint destroying the trynd remake on his stream. Have to agree, he looks VERY unimpressive.
I just dont get it. Most top players, or anyone with a brain can play a character once and tell if he is any good. Maybe you miss an item build, but you can generally tell if the kit has any sort of cohesion. Does riot just never play these remakes out?
I disagree, why everyone thought that urgot was crap, same with irelia after they removed locket and actually many more champs - sure they may have been buffed/changed in the meantime but still weren't picked right after they got buffed (for irelia it took Atlanta like a month? of playing before she became close at all to FOTM). What's Monkey's cost?
6300
oh Riot...
From what I've seen from streams, he's a bit lackluster (read: not surprise, I'm OP).Last edit: 2011-07-27 07:40:47 |
| | For the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Twitter: @NeoIllusions | Jinteki |
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| BlackPaladin United States. July 27 2011 07:41. Posts 3674 | Profile # |
| Also got to take into account you have people like Phreak playing the remade champs, and he's the one who does a MBR rush on kayle, lol. |
| | "Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it." |
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| spinesheath Germany. July 27 2011 07:45. Posts 5184 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 06:39 Two_DoWn wrote:
I just dont get it. Most top players, or anyone with a brain can play a character once and tell if he is any good. Maybe you miss an item build, but you can generally tell if the kit has any sort of cohesion. Does riot just never play these remakes out?
How long did it take for people to realize Rumble was OP? It was so plain obvious too.
Funfire Garen?
Eve? Eve after the first big nerf?
Lanewick?
Lee Sin is just slowly emerging now...
And how many people have realized that Kog is really strong now?
The VAST majority of people can NOT tell how good a champ is just by playing him once. And if someone can tell for ONE champ, he most likely won't be able to do the same for the next champ.Last edit: 2011-07-27 07:47:08 |
| | If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you. |
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| Ryuu314 United States. July 27 2011 07:46. Posts 5397 | Profile # |
Okay so just played a game with Monkey.
More specifics.
Passive: Adds armor and mres per enemy champ around. It scales starting from 4 per enemy at lvl 1, all the way to 8 per enemy at lvl 18.
Q: no ratio, just a flat +x on attack. At max it adds like 150 damage or something. It hurts.
W: has like .6-.7 AP ratio
E: has I think .8-.9 bonus AD ratio, gives increased attack speed for 3 seconds after cast. probably primary skill for jungling
R: Scales 1:1 off of all your AD. Pretty nice.
First thoughts, Monkey is a slow-ass jungler from what I've done. I ran armor seals/quints and scaling mres blues and apen reds. I started wraiths -> wolves -> minigolems recall. Then wraiths -> wolves -> blue. Was low here so I had to recall :\
His passive gives a very decent amount of survivability so it's probably best to build MK AD heavy. His scaling is pretty bad though, other than his ult. His CDs are so-so. 5 second at max lvl Q, 10-ish seconds (dont remember) on max level W, 8 seconds on max lvl E, ulti has like 100-ish second CD.Last edit: 2011-07-27 07:48:14 |
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| LancerStarcraft United States. July 27 2011 07:51. Posts 137 | Profile # |
| Monkey King's Q can be used on turrets. It's lulzy hitting a turret for like 250 damage at level 9. |
| | "Buy a ward. Stop a gank. Save a life." |
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| [Agony]x90 United States. July 27 2011 07:51. Posts 755 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 06:50 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 06:45 Two_DoWn wrote:
On July 27 2011 06:42 Ryuu314 wrote:
On July 27 2011 06:39 Two_DoWn wrote:
Saint destroying the trynd remake on his stream. Have to agree, he looks VERY unimpressive.
to be fair, he's building pure aspd...
He gets crit by having fury. And he builds fury very slowly without aspeed. And the only REAL way to get crit is to crit, which you need crit chance for, which you get buy building pd. Which has aspeed. Plus there is a jax, so he needs the no dodge blade.
Makes sense, but rushing PD was never a good idea on any champ. I think laning tryn with a gunblade rush or something would probably be stronger and more efficient. Takes advantage of the 1:1 AP and AD ratios on E, along with the crazy sustain from his Q. AAAaaaand he just beat a Jax 1v1 rofl Monkey is out!
Lol, this is the VERY first thing i started doing. The second i realize how Q works. A couple notes.
With gun blade at about lvl 7:
You have infinite sustain in lane. Autoattacking lifesteals like crazy and you don't need any rage in order to trigger Q. With Q, you automatically get 180 hp every 8 seconds without rage.
The AP adds 75 dmg to your E. This is exactly (or very close) to enough in order to one shot shooty creeps wiht your E if you are injured. Killing three creeps instantly gives you 30 rage. Eventually, E does enough dmg where you can clear out an entire wave in one spin. This means 60 rage at once.
Keeping that in mind, you don't actually need attack speed in order to build rage, just creeps. As for fights, a youmuus can correct the lack of attack speed.
For hunting down targets, do a spin into the person, drop your hextech and mocking shout and then when they're trying to run (or fight lol) use your youmuus. The hextech gives you about 150 total dmg and the youmuus will put you at 210. each crit will be doing about 500 dmg if you are hurt.
This may not sound impressive, but keep in mind that i've gotten to this point at about 17-20 minutes, meaning that theres still bound to be squishies out there that have little to no tankiness. |
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| BlackPaladin United States. July 27 2011 08:08. Posts 3674 | Profile # |
| Old trynd with just a ghostblade could hit for nearly 500..... |
| | "Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it." |
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 Brees Marshall Islands. July 27 2011 08:20. Posts 2282 | Profile # |
monkey is a hybrid between irelia and a poor man's shaco i guess
you can easily get to and destroy their ad carry, as well as split push mediocrely but if you get to a tower you kill it pretty fast
atmogs or sunfire + full damage seem to be the only options. atmogs if you plan on teamfighting, sunfire + full damage if your team is shit and just want to split push |
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| 0123456789 United States. July 27 2011 08:23. Posts 1847 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 08:20 Brees wrote:
monkey is a hybrid between irelia and a poor man's shaco i guess
you can easily get to and destroy their ad carry, as well as split push mediocrely but if you get to a tower you kill it pretty fast
atmogs or sunfire + full damage seem to be the only options. atmogs if you plan on teamfighting, sunfire + full damage if your team is shit and just want to split push
His clone deals aoe dmg to creeps. |
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| zulu_nation8 China. July 27 2011 08:32. Posts 18725 | Profile Blog # |
| He's a really good farmer with a fast animation and aoe skills to clear waves. But he has no CC except for his ult. I'm guessing go Q>E>W in lane and use Q to harass? |
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| myopia United States. July 27 2011 08:33. Posts 2260 | Profile Blog # |
| if we're going to have a new general discussion thread with every patch, do we need our general patch discussion thread? |
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| Juicyfruit Canada. July 27 2011 08:42. Posts 3490 | Profile # |
On July 27 2011 07:46 Ryuu314 wrote:
Okay so just played a game with Monkey.
More specifics.
Passive: Adds armor and mres per enemy champ around. It scales starting from 4 per enemy at lvl 1, all the way to 8 per enemy at lvl 18.
Q: no ratio, just a flat +x on attack. At max it adds like 150 damage or something. It hurts.
W: has like .6-.7 AP ratio
E: has I think .8-.9 bonus AD ratio, gives increased attack speed for 3 seconds after cast. probably primary skill for jungling
R: Scales 1:1 off of all your AD. Pretty nice.
First thoughts, Monkey is a slow-ass jungler from what I've done. I ran armor seals/quints and scaling mres blues and apen reds. I started wraiths -> wolves -> minigolems recall. Then wraiths -> wolves -> blue. Was low here so I had to recall :\
His passive gives a very decent amount of survivability so it's probably best to build MK AD heavy. His scaling is pretty bad though, other than his ult. His CDs are so-so. 5 second at max lvl Q, 10-ish seconds (dont remember) on max level W, 8 seconds on max lvl E, ulti has like 100-ish second CD.
That sounds horrible, lol. At least Garen has courage. MK just sounds like he's going to get cc'd and exploded as soon as he tries to spin.
I was expecting alot more from the passive. |
| | Do not hate me because I am better than you. There are people better than me as well; go hate them. |
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| Tadzio July 27 2011 08:47. Posts 3286 | Profile Blog # |
| the streams I've seen, wukong fails earlygame, and it carries on into the mid and lategame, unfortunately. |
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| Ryuu314 United States. July 27 2011 08:48. Posts 5397 | Profile # |
On July 27 2011 08:42 Juicyfruit wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 07:46 Ryuu314 wrote:
Okay so just played a game with Monkey.
More specifics.
Passive: Adds armor and mres per enemy champ around. It scales starting from 4 per enemy at lvl 1, all the way to 8 per enemy at lvl 18.
Q: no ratio, just a flat +x on attack. At max it adds like 150 damage or something. It hurts.
W: has like .6-.7 AP ratio
E: has I think .8-.9 bonus AD ratio, gives increased attack speed for 3 seconds after cast. probably primary skill for jungling
R: Scales 1:1 off of all your AD. Pretty nice.
First thoughts, Monkey is a slow-ass jungler from what I've done. I ran armor seals/quints and scaling mres blues and apen reds. I started wraiths -> wolves -> minigolems recall. Then wraiths -> wolves -> blue. Was low here so I had to recall :\
His passive gives a very decent amount of survivability so it's probably best to build MK AD heavy. His scaling is pretty bad though, other than his ult. His CDs are so-so. 5 second at max lvl Q, 10-ish seconds (dont remember) on max level W, 8 seconds on max lvl E, ulti has like 100-ish second CD.
That sounds horrible, lol. At least Garen has courage. MK just sounds like he's going to get cc'd and exploded as soon as he tries to spin. I was expecting alot more from the passive.
Well I've been running defensive runes so at lvl 18 with the passive and stuff I get 100-140 armor and magic resist with no defensive items other than maybe merc treads assuming full stacks on my passive.
I've been having decent success building AD heavy on him. Starting with boots+3pot, then BT/BC and Ghostblade. Haven't really had a game go longer than that lol.
I think his bad scaling is by design. His passive is quite strong in teamfights. 40 free armor and magic resist is nothing to laugh at. Spec defensive masteries and armor seals/quints with scaling mres blues and you're pretty darn tanky without any tank items. With better scaling, he'd be pretty OP as he gets free survivability.
The biggest problem I see with MK is that there's simply nowhere to put him in a teamcomp. His jungling is sub-par with regards to speed, at least in my limited experience. He can't really go solo mid without getting zoned by the heavy AP bursters that tend to go mid. Top lane he'd be okay, but I'd imagine he'd play a lot like Jax. Either very cheesy with nonstop harass and hope for the best, or just play passive and try for last hits. Bot lane he'll likely get worked over by a good support+carry lane, although if you pair him with Taric, you might be able to get enough burst to win the lane. His sub-par laning basically means he's gimped from the start against any good opponents.Last edit: 2011-07-27 08:50:35 |
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| Two_DoWn United States. July 27 2011 09:01. Posts 7272 | Profile Blog # |
| You cant put him anywhere either. He cant solo top cuz he has no sustain, cant put him mid cuz casters blow him up, bot is lol. He has the pantheon problem. |
| | Cry havoc and let slip the hogs of war~ |
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| Phrost United States. July 27 2011 09:04. Posts 2671 | Profile Blog # |
| I don't know if anyone else noticed but tryn has a new skin that's basically nightmare from soulcal |
| | iamphrost.tumblr.com // http://howtobebettermagicplayer.tumblr.com // twitter @phrost_ |
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| Tadzio July 27 2011 09:05. Posts 3286 | Profile Blog # |
| Watching the saintvicious stream and he actually started out good. I think he was 6-1-? at some point. Now he's 8-7-10. So even with a fed start he doesn't impress me. A shame, you'd think the motherfuckin' MONKEYKING would have an IMBA start. Last edit: 2011-07-27 09:06:47 |
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