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Keep any SC2 vs BW comments out of this thread. This is a thread about Brood War and Esports (Tekken Crash, Special Forces, etc) in general. If you discuss what this means for ESPORTS be sensitive about it. | Medrea July 27 2011 23:24. Posts 9999 | Profile # |
| Craton....You cut out a chunk of what I wrote and then asked where it was... Last edit: 2011-07-27 23:24:25 |
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| Armathai Germany. July 27 2011 23:25. Posts 999 | Profile # |
For those people spamming stuff about how SC2 might be doing good internationally and that korea doesn't matter anymore, are you serious?
I personally don't give a flying fuck about SC2, but just to enlighten those people who do,
Since negotiations about broadcasting rights have finally come to a positive close between KeSPA and Blizzard, we can expect that once GOMs exclusive SC2-coverage contract runs out in Korea, that Blizzard would like to promote broadcasting with OGN and MBC. Now if MBC doesn't exist anymore, this is a huge blow in viewership, including all possible sponsors and related leagues as well. Not to mention that Korea is probably the best chance SC2 has for being shown on TV, rather than being stuck in niche internet viewership forever.
Without going back to the Elefant in the Room , we already know at this point that SC2 is already being played at the highest level in Korea, and not internationally (check koreans traveling to international events and view results).
As such, if ESPORTS dies slowly in Korea, the rest of the world's competition is just becoming a farce of what it could have been.
So yes, SC2 people be fucking pissed that MBC would consider this, and don't hope that Flash or Jaedong or anyone else will switch to SC2, because that won't benefit your game in the longrun.
Hoping for the best outcome, as in, the management doing a 180° twist...
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| | JD/Flash/Stork/Nada/Xellos/Sea/Ret/Mondragon/Tyler Fan |  |
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| Sprouter United States. July 27 2011 23:25. Posts 915 | Profile # |
I'm not an EG apologist but it looks like Alex Garfield has a point when he said that BW's "enclosed/self-contained" system has a drawback.
SC2's thriving scene (outside of korea) would not be possible at all if everyone had to go through GOM/Blizzard/Kespa to host a tournament/league. GOM would still have a BW tournament if it were not for Kespa. |
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| AroundTweed New Zealand. July 27 2011 23:25. Posts 27 | Profile Blog # |
I just spent the past few hours reading the entire thread and I have to say that I feel as if I've been punched in the gut right now, it is a very sad day indeed.
All I can think to do is to remain optimistic about the situation. I refuse to believe BW can die, and maybe that's just ignorance, but it sure is blissful. :D |
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 zatic Germany. July 27 2011 23:26. Posts 11698 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 23:16 Chargelot wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:13 regerstreen wrote:BW is going down, SC2 is going down (lol at people thinking SC2 can be something dozens of other games couldn't be in the past), esports is going down. 
@Zatic Leaving one niche for another isn't a good trade.
What? What is that supposed to mean?
Can you really not see that it ist bad for SC2 that it will remain an internet only niche thing instead of (potentially) being broadcasted on a mainstream TV channel? If so there is really no point in further arguing this, and I doubt you really want to understand the impact for SC2 as you said you do. Last edit: 2011-07-27 23:29:15 |
| | I know Teamliquid is known as a massive building |  |
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| Koka-kola July 27 2011 23:26. Posts 239 | Profile # |
god damn it, well these times, eventually all things come to an end without proper support, our western community is just several hundred of viewers...
This is so sad and at the same time it is normal that things do change, but SC:BW should not die, this will be so tragic for e-sports and for the community as there are many die hard sc1 fans that will not follow sc2, I won't, I just don't have time for it any more. So sad, so sad |
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| xollner Canada. July 27 2011 23:27. Posts 13 | Profile # |
MBC NOOOO
I hope OGN stays strong |
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| MrMotionPicture United States. July 27 2011 23:28. Posts 2716 | Profile # | |
| | "Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. True story. | ROOTqxc.729/FXOqxc.955 |  |
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| Mannerheim July 27 2011 23:28. Posts 602 | Profile # |
On July 27 2011 23:10 Chargelot wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:04 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On July 27 2011 23:00 Chargelot wrote:
Can someone please explain exactly why this would be bad for SC2? It seems to me that -- NO DISRESPECT INTENDED -- a failing company who casts ancient games (good though they may be) is switching up its broadcasting style to prevent bankruptcy.
It's like saying the Windows 98 Offical Fan Club is closing down, and this is absolutely horrible for Windows 7 users.
Seriously, no disrespect intended, it just really looks like that is what people are saying. It's not as simple as "Well E-Sports is E-Sports." If SC2 isn't broadcasted on this channel, it will not effect it? Is there any reasonable explanation as to why it would? I'm thinking it over again and again, and I don't discredit any of you, I believe I MUST be missing SOMETHING.
It is an indicator that esports might not be as viable as we think it is. That a station that held up half of broodwars and several other esports, and had better ratings than it's sc2 equivalent, believes that it is more viable to switch it's focus to kpop, indicates that esports itself might not be viable, and that the position of any station promoting esports might not be as economically stable as we like.
I have to respectfully disagree. It means they believe their current lineup of E-Sports may be failing, and that it is more reasonable to change their broadcasting genre than to edit their lineup. League of Legends got something ridiculous, in the neighborhood of 2.2M unique viewers at DreamHack Summer (A very high number, insanely large, was concurrent). SC2 Got a few hundred thousand, running well over 80,000 concurrent for most of the final day. I think a station playing more modernized E-Sports games could do very well. Maybe not in the Korean market, but like I've mentioned, BW is the only game in which Korea remains the E-Sports capital of the world. An American company -- lets say G4 -- could do very well by broadcasting modern E-Sports games.
How many LoL players are making a full-time living off it? How many businesses is the game sustaining, excluding its developer? Face it, that game will never be an economically viable eSport.
Also 80 000 concurrent viewers is nothing compared to the past BW viewership on MBC and OGN. If they were unable to sustain a business with the assets and market they had, I don't think any other game or organization will do any better. BW in Korea was the "best case scenario", the best eSports can be in an ideal setting. |
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| See.Blue United States. July 27 2011 23:29. Posts 2291 | Profile Blog # |
| We had a good run, BW. Go easily, my good friend. |
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| Chargelot July 27 2011 23:29. Posts 2274 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 23:25 Armathai wrote:
Since negotiations about broadcasting rights have finally come to a positive close between KeSPA and Blizzard, we can expect that once GOMs exclusive SC2-coverage contract runs out in Korea, that Blizzard would like to promote broadcasting with OGN and MBC. Now if MBC doesn't exist anymore, this is a huge blow in viewership, including all possible sponsors and related leagues as well.
Blizzard will find someone else, or someone else will step up to the plate. Too much money to be made for no one to want to make it.
Not to mention that Korea is probably the best chance SC2 has for being shown on TV, rather than being stuck in niche internet viewership forever.
Multiple MLG Events were on the American TV station USA.
Without going back to the Elefant in the Room , we already know at this point that SC2 is already being played at the highest level in Korea, and not internationally (check koreans traveling to international events and view results). As such, if ESPORTS dies slowly in Korea, the rest of the world's competition is just becoming a farce of what it could have been.
Korean pros won't say "Oh, Sad, Korean E-Sports is not what it sued to be. Better quit now."
They'll simply join foreigner teams, and those teams will benefit from having this skillful player added to their roster.
So yes, SC2 people be fucking pissed that MBC would consider this, and don't hope that Flash or Jaedong or anyone else will switch to SC2, because that won't benefit your game in the longrun.
Flash playing SC2 would benefit SC2. It would teach us all how to play.
Hoping for the best outcome, as in, the management doing a 180° twist...
I agree.
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@ Zatic
What? What is that supposed to mean?
Can you really not see that it ist bad for SC2 that it will remain an internet only niche thing instead of (potentially) being broadcasted on a mainstream TV channel? If so there is really no point in further arguing this, and I doubt you really want to understand the impact for SC2 as you said you do.
Korean TV is a niche. No, I don't want SC2 to be trapped in Korea, forever staying there, and never being popular in NA/EU/SEA/The rest of the world.
I'd rather a station that broadcasts internationally (read; globally) get the rights and the chance.Last edit: 2011-07-27 23:32:18 |
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| elmoscousin United States. July 27 2011 23:30. Posts 30 | Profile # |
On July 27 2011 16:00 echO [W] wrote:
Whoah. This is crazy.
What will happen to MBCGame Hero? Interested to see how this affects SCBW as well as Gom and SC2.
They will become MBC's hot new boy band, of-course 
But really, I'm disappointed. But at least now I guess I won't have to put up with the monthly fee... |
| | Brood War is hard T_T |  |
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| hitthat Poland. July 27 2011 23:32. Posts 1479 | Profile # |
On July 27 2011 23:26 Koka-kola wrote:
this will be so tragic for e-sports and for the community as there are many die hard sc1 fans that will not follow sc2, I won't, I just don't have time for it any more.
Right! SC2 has less to offer for me as a spectator than have CoH and SC1. If I will have to chose between gamereplays.org and its CoH or SC2 channels, i will chose the first one. Not only better graphics, but also better gameplay. Way to return to some different games as well...
Last edit: 2011-07-27 23:32:45 |
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| Craton United States. July 27 2011 23:32. Posts 10147 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 23:24 Medrea wrote:
Craton....You cut out a chunk of what I wrote and then asked where it was...
I didn't cut out anything meaningful.
It's untrue your claim of what it did singlehandedly. It's hardly miraculous that it had the growth it did when it was the successor to the existing (and already very large and established) scene. And your claim that people have expectations that are "out of this world" if they don't like the game is downright insulting. But again, I ask: why bring this up?
MBCGame becoming a non-gaming channel hurts all games, as no matter what the game is it will have less coverage and less market penetration. The last thing you want for any kind of media is to tuck it away. It's much more convenient to flip on a TV than to stream on a computer for the average consumer. |
| | jeongmal kkeutnangeongayo (mari eoptneyo) eonjena geuraetjyo || LoL 2350+ Jungler || KPop: http://cratonz.minus.com/uploads |  |
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| Torenhire United States. July 27 2011 23:32. Posts 9275 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 23:30 elmoscousin wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 16:00 echO [W] wrote:
Whoah. This is crazy.
What will happen to MBCGame Hero? Interested to see how this affects SCBW as well as Gom and SC2.
They will become MBC's hot new boy band, of-course
Actually I could live with this option...hahaha
Edit: @Chargelot
You don't seem to understand what zatic is saying...
GOM won't have 100% exclusive rights forever.
I feel so bad saying this but...when that time runs out, it's entirely possible OGN and MBC would have swapped to SC2, or a combination of both.
Now that MBC is potentially out of the picture, that's a huge blow to potentially getting SC2 way more popular. Think of OSL/MSL level tournaments in SC2? GSL has NOT impressed me in the least, from what I've watched. The format is so messed up...
MBC and OGN are proof that an ESPORTS TV channel will WORK. Internationally - people will look at this, and say "well shit if MBC couldn't afford to play as an ESPORTS only channel, what the fuck are we gonna do?"
What MBC just proved to anyone who is actively seeking to become an ESPORT TV station is that it's not profitable, and I don't care if they are playing BW, SC2, fucking Hello Kitty Island Adventure - they will just see it as not viable.Last edit: 2011-07-27 23:37:49 |
| | #1 Shuttle // LuckyFool // Memory // STX SouL Fan!! Go Liquid + nth!! Torenhire Starleague - the ESPORTS community will spin head so fast like Exorcist. |  |
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| Craton United States. July 27 2011 23:36. Posts 10147 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 23:29 Chargelot wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:25 Armathai wrote:
Since negotiations about broadcasting rights have finally come to a positive close between KeSPA and Blizzard, we can expect that once GOMs exclusive SC2-coverage contract runs out in Korea, that Blizzard would like to promote broadcasting with OGN and MBC. Now if MBC doesn't exist anymore, this is a huge blow in viewership, including all possible sponsors and related leagues as well.
Blizzard will find someone else, or someone else will step up to the plate. Too much money to be made for no one to want to make it.
This isn't necessarily true. It's a large investment to buy up expensive broadcasting rights, create / set up a studio, and hold regular matches. It's very possible companies wont want to take such a risk if the numbers don't look favorable. |
| | jeongmal kkeutnangeongayo (mari eoptneyo) eonjena geuraetjyo || LoL 2350+ Jungler || KPop: http://cratonz.minus.com/uploads | |
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| SaYyId Portugal. July 27 2011 23:37. Posts 270 | Profile # | |
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| ShadeR Australia. July 27 2011 23:38. Posts 6603 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 23:16 Chargelot wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:13 regerstreen wrote:BW is going down, SC2 is going down (lol at people thinking SC2 can be something dozens of other games couldn't be in the past), esports is going down.
It already has? I'm not sure if you just don't follow SC2 E-Sports at all, but it's pretty massive. It's not as mainstream as BW in Korea, but it's significantly larger anyways. And all of this has only been accomplished in a year. I don't want to see BW end. You guys, and the players you support, and the teams that you love, are what made SC2 E-Sports, and ALL E-Sports possible. But "No king rules forever", as King Terenas Menethil II (World of Warcraft, Wrath of the Lich King) said. I hope that BW will still be around for a very long time. But it is not the foundation that holds up E-Sports. It is very small compared to the entirety of E-Sports now. We have BW to thank for that, but it isn't solely responsible for the on-going existence of E-Sports. --- @Zatic Leaving one niche for another isn't a good trade.
BW viewership's ranged from infants to the elderly. School kids to businessmen, housewives and retiree's. What's being inferred by some is that BW which has mass appeal and is broadcast on television during prime time is to "fail", then this news certainly does not bode well for SC2 which despite the global numbers is yet to transition from nerds streaming a game into a viable "eSport".
Tennis, soccer, football, UFC, what do they have in common? A larger portion of the sports viewership do play or have a clue about how it's played they just find it entertaining. This is what BW has achieved and this is also what SC2 strives to achieve.
This is not about BW being the 'king' of eSports. |
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| Torenhire United States. July 27 2011 23:38. Posts 9275 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 23:36 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:29 Chargelot wrote:
On July 27 2011 23:25 Armathai wrote:
Since negotiations about broadcasting rights have finally come to a positive close between KeSPA and Blizzard, we can expect that once GOMs exclusive SC2-coverage contract runs out in Korea, that Blizzard would like to promote broadcasting with OGN and MBC. Now if MBC doesn't exist anymore, this is a huge blow in viewership, including all possible sponsors and related leagues as well.
Blizzard will find someone else, or someone else will step up to the plate. Too much money to be made for no one to want to make it.
This isn't necessarily true. It's a large investment to buy up expensive broadcasting rights, create / set up a studio, and hold regular matches. It's very possible companies wont want to take such a risk if the numbers don't look favorable.
Right, which further proves my point above. Glad to see I'm not going crazy in my thoughts... |
| | #1 Shuttle // LuckyFool // Memory // STX SouL Fan!! Go Liquid + nth!! Torenhire Starleague - the ESPORTS community will spin head so fast like Exorcist. | |
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| Chargelot July 27 2011 23:39. Posts 2274 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2011 23:36 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:29 Chargelot wrote:
On July 27 2011 23:25 Armathai wrote:
Since negotiations about broadcasting rights have finally come to a positive close between KeSPA and Blizzard, we can expect that once GOMs exclusive SC2-coverage contract runs out in Korea, that Blizzard would like to promote broadcasting with OGN and MBC. Now if MBC doesn't exist anymore, this is a huge blow in viewership, including all possible sponsors and related leagues as well.
Blizzard will find someone else, or someone else will step up to the plate. Too much money to be made for no one to want to make it.
This isn't necessarily true. It's a large investment to buy up expensive broadcasting rights, create / set up a studio, and hold regular matches. It's very possible companies wont want to take such a risk if the numbers don't look favorable.
I suppose that's true. But the same could be said for MBC when they first acquired BW, or whoever had it before them. I seriously think it'll work out.
On July 27 2011 23:38 ShadeR wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:16 Chargelot wrote:
On July 27 2011 23:13 regerstreen wrote:BW is going down, SC2 is going down (lol at people thinking SC2 can be something dozens of other games couldn't be in the past), esports is going down.
It already has? I'm not sure if you just don't follow SC2 E-Sports at all, but it's pretty massive. It's not as mainstream as BW in Korea, but it's significantly larger anyways. And all of this has only been accomplished in a year. I don't want to see BW end. You guys, and the players you support, and the teams that you love, are what made SC2 E-Sports, and ALL E-Sports possible. But "No king rules forever", as King Terenas Menethil II (World of Warcraft, Wrath of the Lich King) said. I hope that BW will still be around for a very long time. But it is not the foundation that holds up E-Sports. It is very small compared to the entirety of E-Sports now. We have BW to thank for that, but it isn't solely responsible for the on-going existence of E-Sports. --- @Zatic Leaving one niche for another isn't a good trade.
BW viewership's ranged from infants to the elderly. School kids to businessmen, housewives and retiree's. What's being inferred by some is that BW which has mass appeal and is broadcast on television during prime time is to "fail", then this news certainly does not bode well for SC2 which despite the global numbers is yet to transition from nerds streaming a game into a viable "eSport". Tennis, soccer, football, UFC, what do they have in common? A larger portion of the sports viewership do play or have a clue about how it's played they just find it entertaining. This is what BW has achieved and this is also what SC2 strives to achieve. This is not about BW being the 'king' of eSports.
Note:
I said SC2 was not as mainstream. SC1 wasn't mainstream by its first anniversary either. Give it time.Last edit: 2011-07-27 23:40:17 |
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