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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | WarSame Canada. April 07 2012 04:19. Posts 858 | Profile Blog # |
On April 07 2012 04:13 Mikelius wrote:
Hey guys, I'm a top platinum player facing off vs Diamonds, and the build I used to do doesn't really work anymore (2 colo with range off of one base). I'm aware it's an old build and it shouldn't work, but whenever I try to go for blink+obs I either don't do enough damage or just plain fuck up my micro. And I have no experience with Phoenix play and fear my multitasking is just not up to the task. Any suggestions?
One build that I like to use is 2 Gate Robo -> Expand. Go dual gas, get a sentry first, then get a Robo, and then another sentry, then gate number 2. Forcefield out 4 gates, chrono out 2 immortals first from your robo, followed by obs. Expand after your second Immortal pops out. After you expand, get Colossus Den, make some Colossi, then get second robo and make even more colossi. Then take a third and make more colossus. |
| | My failures are my fault. My successes are my fault. To think otherwise is to throw away responsibility for my self. | |
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| Teoita Italy. April 07 2012 05:06. Posts 4457 | Profile Blog # |
On April 07 2012 04:13 Mikelius wrote:
Hey guys, I'm a top platinum player facing off vs Diamonds, and the build I used to do doesn't really work anymore (2 colo with range off of one base). I'm aware it's an old build and it shouldn't work, but whenever I try to go for blink+obs I either don't do enough damage or just plain fuck up my micro. And I have no experience with Phoenix play and fear my multitasking is just not up to the task. Any suggestions?
There's guides in the recommended section on both styles. They are much harder to pull off and play correctly than 1base colossus though, so it does take some work.
For blink obs stuff, check out this vod of cecil showing me the ways of pvp too:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=325480 |
| | Protoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright. | |
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| Monkeyballs25 April 07 2012 18:05. Posts 527 | Profile # |
Hi folks. I'm a silver league player who's spent two seasons each on Zerg and Terran, and now I'd like to pick up some builds for Protoss so I can go Random. Any suggestions for some fun macrostomp type builds for each matchup?
For reference, my go to builds for the other races were
TvZ Mass marine, expanding after 3rd rax
TvP MMMViking, expanding after 3rd rax
TvT Marine/tank/viking, expanding when first tank and viking is out
ZvX Roachmuta, pool first except vs Terran
The less micro/spellcasting required, the better. |
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| Teoita Italy. April 07 2012 18:08. Posts 4457 | Profile Blog # |
On April 07 2012 18:05 Monkeyballs25 wrote:
Hi folks. I'm a silver league player who's spent two seasons each on Zerg and Terran, and now I'd like to pick up some builds for Protoss so I can go Random. Any suggestions for some fun macrostomp type builds for each matchup?
For reference, my go to builds for the other races were
TvZ Mass marine, expanding after 3rd rax
TvP MMMViking, expanding after 3rd rax
TvT Marine/tank/viking, expanding when first tank and viking is out
ZvX Roachmuta, pool first except vs Terran
The less micro/spellcasting required, the better.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255, take a look and pick what you like the most. |
| | Protoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright. | |
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| Payson United States. April 08 2012 03:37. Posts 321 | Profile Blog # |
What is the proper response to a Zerg who 7 pools you when you go FFE? I only threw down my forge, a pylon/cannon in my mineral line to defend and had no proper idea how to transition out of it. I decided to 4gate, thinking I'd be ahead in econ, but when I pushed, he had an expansion, roaches out, and a Lair on the way already.
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| recklessfire United States. April 08 2012 03:54. Posts 354 | Profile # |
On April 08 2012 03:37 Payson wrote:
What is the proper response to a Zerg who 7 pools you when you go FFE? I only threw down my forge, a pylon/cannon in my mineral line to defend and had no proper idea how to transition out of it. I decided to 4gate, thinking I'd be ahead in econ, but when I pushed, he had an expansion, roaches out, and a Lair on the way already.
when a zerg all in pools like that (6/7/8 pool) and you have opened with FFE, you will be on equal footing with you once you defend the lings with the cannon in your mineral line(you shouldnt lose any probes). Remember, because you have opened FFE, you now have to open with a normal gate expand and it will take a while for you to get some units up so the zerg will be droning like nuts. Just play normally with the gate expand and you should be fine.
edit: if he does like a faster pool like 10 pool, you might be able to complete your wall for the FFE depending on the positions of your bases and how big the ramp is. On antiga shipyard, i believe you will not be able to get a wall in time if you tried to make it at the second ramp, but if you made the wall using your nexus, you should be able to finish it.Last edit: 2012-04-08 03:56:52 |
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| Jailbreaker United States. April 08 2012 03:55. Posts 61 | Profile # |
GUYS, i am so frustrated! I am a low apm plat protoss player. My problem is that I subconsciously hot key my whole army to [6] and [a] move, but wait! In my army group [6] I have blink stalkers, sentries, and high temps all in the same group, my problem is that when i press [6] and i try to blink my stalkers, it doesn't work. D: I just end up sending all my units to their deaths (not attacking). I heard that you can [tab] to change unit selection, or double click the unit to select all, but both methods do not work for me. D: I can not click fast enough and I sometimes triple click the unit by pressing [6] (selects all units) and double clicking the stalker which is the third click which leaves me with only one stalker clicked.
My current control groups are:
robo [2] stargate [3] all base [4] warp prism[5] main army [6]
warp prism open [e] warp prism close [d] drop [r] all other hotkeys are standered.
I have an ergonomic keyboard, so it is to hard for me to reach [1] [7] [8] [9] [0] control groups.
How can I fix my hotkeys so I can use sentries/blink stalkers/ high temps all in the same group with minimal effort? |
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| monk United States. April 08 2012 03:59. Posts 6991 | Profile Blog # |
On April 08 2012 03:55 Jailbreaker wrote:
GUYS, i am so frustrated! I am a low apm plat protoss player. My problem is that I subconsciously hot key my whole army to [6] and [a] move, but wait! In my army group [6] I have blink stalkers, sentries, and high temps all in the same group, my problem is that when i press [6] and i try to blink my stalkers, it doesn't work. D: I just end up sending all my units to their deaths (not attacking). I heard that you can [tab] to change unit selection, or double click the unit to select all, but both methods do not work for me. D: I can not click fast enough and I sometimes triple click the unit by pressing [6] (selects all units) and double clicking the stalker which is the third click which leaves me with only one stalker clicked.
My current control groups are:
robo [2] stargate [3] all base [4] warp prism[5] main army [6]
warp prism open [e] warp prism close [d] drop [r] all other hotkeys are standered.
I have an ergonomic keyboard, so it is to hard for me to reach [1] [7] [8] [9] [0] control groups.
How can I fix my hotkeys so I can use sentries/blink stalkers/ high temps all in the same group with minimal effort?
I highly recommend splitting blink stalkers in their own hotkey, templar in their own hotkey, and sentries/rest in their own hotkey. Otherwise you have to use tab. Why doesn't tab work for you? |
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| recklessfire United States. April 08 2012 04:03. Posts 354 | Profile # |
On April 08 2012 03:55 Jailbreaker wrote:
GUYS, i am so frustrated! I am a low apm plat protoss player. My problem is that I subconsciously hot key my whole army to [6] and [a] move, but wait! In my army group [6] I have blink stalkers, sentries, and high temps all in the same group, my problem is that when i press [6] and i try to blink my stalkers, it doesn't work. D: I just end up sending all my units to their deaths (not attacking). I heard that you can [tab] to change unit selection, or double click the unit to select all, but both methods do not work for me. D: I can not click fast enough and I sometimes triple click the unit by pressing [6] (selects all units) and double clicking the stalker which is the third click which leaves me with only one stalker clicked.
My current control groups are:
robo [2] stargate [3] all base [4] warp prism[5] main army [6]
warp prism open [e] warp prism close [d] drop [r] all other hotkeys are standered.
I have an ergonomic keyboard, so it is to hard for me to reach [1] [7] [8] [9] [0] control groups.
How can I fix my hotkeys so I can use sentries/blink stalkers/ high temps all in the same group with minimal effort?
uh, hate to break it to you, but if their in the same group you have to tab through the units. When you select your whole army, the tech units will usually get priority, so i would imagine the HTs will be selected first, you should see on the lower right interface what units have been selected based on what spells you see. Then it should go HT--->sentries--->blink stalkers. I know it will be more difficult to use multiple army bindings, but i highly suggest you at least bind your HTs on a different key. You will be able to use the spells much faster and if you just select the HT key and storm/feedback w/e, and then press the other army key and use the abilities there. As opposed to, HT(storm), press tab, sentry(guardian shield, forcefield), press tab, blink stalkers. If you are selecting the sentries, you would have to tab twice to go back to your HTs, unless you manually click on them, which i would assume can be very difficult when your army is enourmous and they have grouped up into one big ball. |
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| ZeromuS Canada. April 08 2012 07:26. Posts 8333 | Profile Blog # |
On April 08 2012 03:59 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 03:55 Jailbreaker wrote:
GUYS, i am so frustrated! I am a low apm plat protoss player. My problem is that I subconsciously hot key my whole army to [6] and [a] move, but wait! In my army group [6] I have blink stalkers, sentries, and high temps all in the same group, my problem is that when i press [6] and i try to blink my stalkers, it doesn't work. D: I just end up sending all my units to their deaths (not attacking). I heard that you can [tab] to change unit selection, or double click the unit to select all, but both methods do not work for me. D: I can not click fast enough and I sometimes triple click the unit by pressing [6] (selects all units) and double clicking the stalker which is the third click which leaves me with only one stalker clicked.
My current control groups are:
robo [2] stargate [3] all base [4] warp prism[5] main army [6]
warp prism open [e] warp prism close [d] drop [r] all other hotkeys are standered.
I have an ergonomic keyboard, so it is to hard for me to reach [1] [7] [8] [9] [0] control groups.
How can I fix my hotkeys so I can use sentries/blink stalkers/ high temps all in the same group with minimal effort?
I highly recommend splitting blink stalkers in their own hotkey, templar in their own hotkey, and sentries/rest in their own hotkey. Otherwise you have to use tab. Why doesn't tab work for you?
I need to try this myself. The issue I have is difficulty in keeping my obs or stargate units hotkeyed in PvZ for example. I use my nexus on 4, gates 5, robo 6, and stargate 7. If I have a moship nexus it goes to 8 and removed from 4 -- i've cancelled too many motherships by accident in my life.
9 is usually free and forges go on 0 and get location keyed for chronoboosts. 9 is too far for constant micro so perhaps it can be my obs key.... hmmmmm
Nice recommendations on where to put army units so far ive been trying stalkers on 2 everything else on 1. Then zealot micro beyond simple a move becomes difficult with collossi in control group 1 as well with them. Guess I can ctrl select my zealots to move them back in PvT or walk them close before using charge in PvT. |
| | uOttawa SC2 Club/CSL Team join@uostarcraft.com | Will we see a hatchery this game? - Tasteless (Game 2 Naniwa vs. Leenock MLG winter Arena) |
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| whistle United States. April 08 2012 07:52. Posts 139 | Profile # |
On April 08 2012 03:55 Jailbreaker wrote:
GUYS, i am so frustrated! I am a low apm plat protoss player. My problem is that I subconsciously hot key my whole army to [6] and [a] move, but wait! In my army group [6] I have blink stalkers, sentries, and high temps all in the same group, my problem is that when i press [6] and i try to blink my stalkers, it doesn't work. D: I just end up sending all my units to their deaths (not attacking). I heard that you can [tab] to change unit selection, or double click the unit to select all, but both methods do not work for me. D: I can not click fast enough and I sometimes triple click the unit by pressing [6] (selects all units) and double clicking the stalker which is the third click which leaves me with only one stalker clicked.
My current control groups are:
robo [2] stargate [3] all base [4] warp prism[5] main army [6]
warp prism open [e] warp prism close [d] drop [r] all other hotkeys are standered.
I have an ergonomic keyboard, so it is to hard for me to reach [1] [7] [8] [9] [0] control groups.
How can I fix my hotkeys so I can use sentries/blink stalkers/ high temps all in the same group with minimal effort?
In your case with the limited available hotkeys the first thing I would do is remove the warp prism from your numerical hotkeys since hotkeying a harass unit is more of a luxury than a necessity. Then, take into account everything recklessfire says about HTs - you need sentries and HT on a separate hotkey, if nothing else, because FF are a very reaction-sensitive ability and hitting tab every time you want to use FF is terrible. Since you are used to army on 6, putting everything but HT on 6 and HT on 5 sounds like an acceptable compromise.
Since you mention that sometimes double clicking blink stalkers doesn't work, ctrl-click does the same thing and is much less prone to error. It's just a matter of preference; personally I never double click units to select them, but a lot of my friends never ctrl-click.
Be sure to (almost) always a-move your army when moving it to prevent "sending all [your] units to their deaths (not attacking)".
A better control scheme would be blink stalkers on their own hotkey as well, but if you are low APM (more hotkeys means more keys to hit when moving army) and have limited keys available, it's not a big deal. Most of the times you'd want to blink your stalkers are after battles start or after they are over, anyways, so you'll have time to ctrl-click/double click.
Depending on how often you use robo/stargate, you might consider taking one of those hotkeys and giving it to stalkers. FYI, if you put robo and stargate on the same hotkey, the stargate is the "default" building (you need to tab to get to robo).
Final idea would be to remap your 1/7/8/9/0 hotkeys to caps lock or q. |
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| The Eskimo United States. April 08 2012 22:17. Posts 21 | Profile # |
I'm losing to terran. Every game. I lost to the 11minute push. Do I need storm out when this comes?
I also lose to 2rax pressure. A lot.
I'm a masters level protoss quite confident in my other match ups but I can't seem to beat terran anymore. I lose before 12 minutes every game. |
| | When life gives you lemons, you beat the crap out of life. |
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| ZeromuS Canada. April 09 2012 00:23. Posts 8333 | Profile Blog # |
On April 08 2012 22:17 The Eskimo wrote:
I'm losing to terran. Every game. I lost to the 11minute push. Do I need storm out when this comes?
I also lose to 2rax pressure. A lot.
I'm a masters level protoss quite confident in my other match ups but I can't seem to beat terran anymore. I lose before 12 minutes every game.
I think it depends on your opening build and the map.
If you open templar try to do what parting does and feedback the first 2 medivacs then make an archon while using FF to keep the terran army off the ramp is good.
I have the same problems but personally I find that as long as they dont get a medivac full of units in my base, I'm totally fine. Its the medivac drops that destroy me.
As for 2 rax, if you can scout well do the MC 1 gate FE. When you can make the call between 2 rax and not 2 rax the opening is really strong. Though making the read it isn't 2 rax and then changing the BO because of it can lead to a loss.
Edited because in the morning, I type like a neanderthal Last edit: 2012-04-09 00:27:33 |
| | uOttawa SC2 Club/CSL Team join@uostarcraft.com | Will we see a hatchery this game? - Tasteless (Game 2 Naniwa vs. Leenock MLG winter Arena) |
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| C0MMANDO April 09 2012 11:45. Posts 68 | Profile # | |
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| NoisyNinja United States. April 09 2012 12:14. Posts 982 | Profile # |
On April 09 2012 00:23 ZeromuS wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 22:17 The Eskimo wrote:
I'm losing to terran. Every game. I lost to the 11minute push. Do I need storm out when this comes?
I also lose to 2rax pressure. A lot.
I'm a masters level protoss quite confident in my other match ups but I can't seem to beat terran anymore. I lose before 12 minutes every game.
I think it depends on your opening build and the map. If you open templar try to do what parting does and feedback the first 2 medivacs then make an archon while using FF to keep the terran army off the ramp is good. I have the same problems but personally I find that as long as they dont get a medivac full of units in my base, I'm totally fine. Its the medivac drops that destroy me. As for 2 rax, if you can scout well do the MC 1 gate FE. When you can make the call between 2 rax and not 2 rax the opening is really strong. Though making the read it isn't 2 rax and then changing the BO because of it can lead to a loss. Edited because in the morning, I type like a neanderthal
"Feedback the first 2 medivacs then make an archon while using FF to keep the Terran army off the ramp"
You should be on 2 base way before a medivac bio push comes. Also, FF'ing your ramp when you're on 2 base is only going to block some reinforcements. |
| | The world can go fuck itself. I'm not taking out my headphones. |
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| xlava United States. April 09 2012 13:08. Posts 675 | Profile Blog # |
On April 08 2012 03:55 Jailbreaker wrote:
GUYS, i am so frustrated! I am a low apm plat protoss player. My problem is that I subconsciously hot key my whole army to [6] and [a] move, but wait! In my army group [6] I have blink stalkers, sentries, and high temps all in the same group, my problem is that when i press [6] and i try to blink my stalkers, it doesn't work. D: I just end up sending all my units to their deaths (not attacking). I heard that you can [tab] to change unit selection, or double click the unit to select all, but both methods do not work for me. D: I can not click fast enough and I sometimes triple click the unit by pressing [6] (selects all units) and double clicking the stalker which is the third click which leaves me with only one stalker clicked.
My current control groups are:
robo [2] stargate [3] all base [4] warp prism[5] main army [6]
warp prism open [e] warp prism close [d] drop [r] all other hotkeys are standered.
I have an ergonomic keyboard, so it is to hard for me to reach [1] [7] [8] [9] [0] control groups.
How can I fix my hotkeys so I can use sentries/blink stalkers/ high temps all in the same group with minimal effort?
I do exactly what you do. However my hts are in a different group as well as all my air in PvZ lategame.
Here's what I do:
When you select your main army of sentries, blink stalkers, etc, the sentries are highlighted first right? Immediately pop guardian shields, and forcefield as you will. In a situation with mass ling and you have to get your stalkers out of there (perhaps you botched the ff), hit tab, then all your stalkers abilities will be selected; blink out like that. I generally individually select/box my stalkers in small groups when I have to blink them. However, I'm a mid-high range apm player (spiking around 250 apm), so I'm able to do this.
Hope this helps at least a bit, but generally you don't want to be blinking all your stalkers at once anyway except in certain situations. The method I suggested should help. If you can't reach tab you can always rebind the hotkey.
Alternatively, you can click on one stalker, then hold shift and control, and click on it again. That will select all stalkers and is less error prone than triple clicking or whatever.
Last edit: 2012-04-09 13:09:59 |
| | "although I cannot move and I have to speak through a computer, in my mind, I am free" - Stephen Hawking |
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| ZeromuS Canada. April 09 2012 13:53. Posts 8333 | Profile Blog # |
On April 09 2012 12:14 NoisyNinja wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 00:23 ZeromuS wrote:
On April 08 2012 22:17 The Eskimo wrote:
I'm losing to terran. Every game. I lost to the 11minute push. Do I need storm out when this comes?
I also lose to 2rax pressure. A lot.
I'm a masters level protoss quite confident in my other match ups but I can't seem to beat terran anymore. I lose before 12 minutes every game.
I think it depends on your opening build and the map. If you open templar try to do what parting does and feedback the first 2 medivacs then make an archon while using FF to keep the terran army off the ramp is good. I have the same problems but personally I find that as long as they dont get a medivac full of units in my base, I'm totally fine. Its the medivac drops that destroy me. As for 2 rax, if you can scout well do the MC 1 gate FE. When you can make the call between 2 rax and not 2 rax the opening is really strong. Though making the read it isn't 2 rax and then changing the BO because of it can lead to a loss. Edited because in the morning, I type like a neanderthal
"Feedback the first 2 medivacs then make an archon while using FF to keep the Terran army off the ramp" You should be on 2 base way before a medivac bio push comes. Also, FF'ing your ramp when you're on 2 base is only going to block some reinforcements.
Most maps have a secondary ramp that you can forcefield, some take 2 some take 3. The FFs last long enough for an archon to form and without healing the stim with a solid sized army you should be ok to hold the ramp. If you FF before they get in it won't block only some reinforcements, but the whole army. The T can lift and drop units in front of the FFs but rarely would a terran want to put their units in front of forcefields so that the units can't kite at all. |
| | uOttawa SC2 Club/CSL Team join@uostarcraft.com | Will we see a hatchery this game? - Tasteless (Game 2 Naniwa vs. Leenock MLG winter Arena) |
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| Lafer United States. April 10 2012 05:22. Posts 112 | Profile # |
I'm pretty sure this has been answered before, but what do I need to do against mass Muta?
I have storms and stalkers, but if I leave some templar at the minerals, he immediately kills it and has free reign of the base. With stalkers, he just has too many and will kill them no problem. By the time the rest of my army gets to the base, it's too late, he just flies away.
If I try to push out, I have to take my stalkers with me, and again, he kills the mutas and runs off. I storm before he kills the mutas, but he just runs away taking minimum damage and goes to a new base.
It's quite frustrating to go against mass Mutas. I guess the answer would be to kill the zerg early, but it's hard to know if they are going mutas once lings come out. |
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| Olidan Denmark. April 10 2012 16:53. Posts 30 | Profile # |
So In the first replay 1 thing that jump into my eyes are that you build your buildings on the low ground so I would guess bronze or silver. if you are higher than that I would be surprised to as how you got there. Not to be mean but people get better and better at punishing and they get better to just randomly have enough of stuff to punish you for it.
So build your buildings in your base. Force Fields can be essential for your survival later on, having all your production shut down by early pressure is detrimental for your success in this matchup.
Another thing is that you might want to find a pro replay with a strategy or look one up on TL, not to say that you should not experiment with builds but it seems like you have little knowledge of what is actually needed in the early game in a PvP.
So look up a strategy.
To answer your question "How noob am I?" you are pretty new to the game, or so it seems.
Also if you want to experiment with your own things never build exessive supply, you have 20-30 over supply and no units. I could rant on about what you need and not need but this is simply fixed by you having a better goal.
A good direction to look in for a new player would be this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255
NrGmonks thread which put some good guides into one thread.
Same goes for the second game.
What did wrong was that you teched INSANELY fast for robo tech, which should never work, and as you see/felt you were punished for it. What is usually done in the PvZ matchup when you expand and build your buildings on the low gournd is that you build a forge get a cannon or two (depending on your opponents agression level) and then you expand and after that complete the wall off with a gate and a cyber. More details on this can be found in any pro replay.
I would give 90% chance to win your games if you get a plan and execute it well.
And try not rush things build some units in between. For the good part of 10 minutes you had a zealot with a cannon to defend you. You are lucky that the baneling all in did not kill instantly.
Hope this helped GL HF.
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| Novabuzz Germany. April 10 2012 19:33. Posts 23 | Profile # |
Is there a good way to deal with increasing numbers of mutas on maps where your expansions are rather far away from each other, aside from killing the zerg before he gets those increased numbers? Blink stalkers are too slow and it gets even more troublesome if he two-prongs with zerglings...I loose a lot to this harassment heavy style.
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