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| Xaeldaren Ireland. July 22 2012 06:39. Posts 412 | Profile # |
Does anyone have any rough drafts of some of the new 1 gate FE builds that've been cropping up in PvZ?
It seems to have started in the RO8 in the GSL with Naniwa vs DRG, but Oz seems to have been throwing it in every series he's played at MLG. I'd love to know if anyone's played around with it and how safe it might be. |
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| zhurai United States. July 22 2012 14:22. Posts 5558 | Profile Blog # |
On July 22 2012 06:39 Xaeldaren wrote:
Does anyone have any rough drafts of some of the new 1 gate FE builds that've been cropping up in PvZ?
It seems to have started in the RO8 in the GSL with Naniwa vs DRG, but Oz seems to have been throwing it in every series he's played at MLG. I'd love to know if anyone's played around with it and how safe it might be.
One of the guys in my clan/team (BulbaProbe) posted on my clan's site about the 1gate FE build
http://blitz-gaming.com/forum/topic/275-pvz-opener-we-dont-ffe-here
basically he does a 1gate fe (pressures with zealot+stalker), and also gets up to 5gates and then techs up.
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| iremnant3847 July 23 2012 09:06. Posts 129 | Profile # |
In PvZ, I have trouble trying to keep my scout probe alive because it always gets picked off by the two initial Zerglings an opponent makes. How should I maneuver my probe and what are some excellent places to hide it?
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| Abusion United Kingdom. July 23 2012 10:39. Posts 184 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 09:06 vizi wrote:
In PvZ, I have trouble trying to keep my scout probe alive because it always gets picked off by the two initial Zerglings an opponent makes. How should I maneuver my probe and what are some excellent places to hide it?
Why does it need to be out on the map? All it needs to do is scout the 3rd base at 5 mins. If not send it home and send another one out. Since z-speed won't be done they won't kill it until the return journey/if at all. If you're doing an all-in that needs a proxy, make a 1-2 zealots and a stalker. You should be able to get your proxy down. |
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| iremnant3847 July 23 2012 11:52. Posts 129 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 10:39 Abusion wrote:
Why does it need to be out on the map? All it needs to do is scout the 3rd base at 5 mins. If not send it home and send another one out. Since z-speed won't be done they won't kill it until the return journey/if at all. If you're doing an all-in that needs a proxy, make a 1-2 zealots and a stalker. You should be able to get your proxy down.
Are you saying that I should return my scout Probe back to base, then send it out later for the Proxy Pylon?
I feel like that sort of defeats the whole idea of a 'proxy'? I guess what I'm trying to say is that wouldn't the enemy player know an attack is incoming and prepare beforehand if his scouting Zerglings die to a Zealot and Stalker? Sometimes I overthink things.
However, I will try doing that from now on. Thanks for the advice! |
| | LiquidHerO / SKMC / SlayerSPuzzle / EGHuK / CreatorPrime |
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| Sated England. July 23 2012 22:31. Posts 3375 | Profile Blog # |
On July 23 2012 11:52 vizi wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 10:39 Abusion wrote:
Why does it need to be out on the map? All it needs to do is scout the 3rd base at 5 mins. If not send it home and send another one out. Since z-speed won't be done they won't kill it until the return journey/if at all. If you're doing an all-in that needs a proxy, make a 1-2 zealots and a stalker. You should be able to get your proxy down.
Are you saying that I should return my scout Probe back to base, then send it out later for the Proxy Pylon? I feel like that sort of defeats the whole idea of a 'proxy'? I guess what I'm trying to say is that wouldn't the enemy player know an attack is incoming and prepare beforehand if his scouting Zerglings die to a Zealot and Stalker? Sometimes I overthink things. However, I will try doing that from now on. Thanks for the advice!
You only really need to hide the Probe out on the map if you're planning on walling yourself in completely. If you're not planning on walling yourself in completely, you can send the Probe home after scouting their third base and then use a Zealot/Stalker to guard a Probe whilst trying to get down a Proxy Pylon later in the game.
I personally use my first Zealot to take the watchtowers because most Zerg players won't have enough Zerglings to stop you. This should give you some freedom to move Probes around the map... and if they do have a large number of Zerglings at that point in the game then that can be an indication of some sort of all-in, so it's good scouting regardless.Last edit: 2012-07-23 22:32:28 |
| | EU Masters Protoss Playing For Team SC2Improve ~ www.sc2improve.org ~ "I'd rather play a strategy that is worse but that I feel confident in than play the better strategy not really feeling it and not being 100% behind it" - Grubby | |
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| rEalGuapo Germany. July 24 2012 00:21. Posts 761 | Profile # |
On July 22 2012 06:13 Drowsy wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 04:34 -MoOsE- wrote:
I just want a little help with my pvt build
I go 1 gate expo into 3 gate robo. grab my forge and gasses next. (make 2 obs)
then I get +1 armour and twilight
then templar archives and 4 more gates (7 total)
morph one archon for the 2 medivac push ( after feedback on medivac)
then start +2 and grab 3rd after defending drops and storm then go to collosus
Is this a good build, do I need to flip anything around
I do the exact same thing in all my pvts, though usually I grab 2nd forge right around when +1 armor is going to finish and just stay on zealots+archon+templar all game.
I don't really like this style. Here are my reasons:
If you get Colossi early they are just as powerful (maybe even more) than Templar.
Why even more? Because in small numbers Bio can dodge a Storm very easily but you cannot dodge a Colossus-shot.
Also, Colossi force Vikings, early Colossi force early Vikings, meaning Terran will not have more than 6 Medivacs.
Colossi obviously scale better with upgrades, since they get a ton out of +damage, Archons do as well but in small numbers they are easily dealt with.
I feel like Colossus off of one Robo while getting double upgrades and securing a third is the best way, you can then transition into templars after +2+2 and kill Terran if he overmade Vikings.
Early Templar advantage: Can catch opponent off guard and kill drops with feedback.
Early Colossi advantage: Reduce Medivac production, cannot be dodged, force Marauders which are terrible against upgraded Chargelots that come with Colossi.
I think Colossi are way better to aim for in the early stages. Plus, if Terran does some funky business of Bunker rushing or something like that, Immortals will come very handy!
My Question: Does anybody know a good PvP opener that can transition into a macro game?
I feel like a Immortal expansion is weak to Blinkstalker builds and Blinkstalker Robo loses to 4gate Blinkstalkers (I see that surprisingly often)
Mid Master EU here. |
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| Abusion United Kingdom. July 24 2012 00:32. Posts 184 | Profile # |
On July 24 2012 00:21 rEalGuapo wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 06:13 Drowsy wrote:
On July 22 2012 04:34 -MoOsE- wrote:
I just want a little help with my pvt build
I go 1 gate expo into 3 gate robo. grab my forge and gasses next. (make 2 obs)
then I get +1 armour and twilight
then templar archives and 4 more gates (7 total)
morph one archon for the 2 medivac push ( after feedback on medivac)
then start +2 and grab 3rd after defending drops and storm then go to collosus
Is this a good build, do I need to flip anything around
I do the exact same thing in all my pvts, though usually I grab 2nd forge right around when +1 armor is going to finish and just stay on zealots+archon+templar all game.
I don't really like this style. Here are my reasons: If you get Colossi early they are just as powerful (maybe even more) than Templar. Why even more? Because in small numbers Bio can dodge a Storm very easily but you cannot dodge a Colossus-shot. Also, Colossi force Vikings, early Colossi force early Vikings, meaning Terran will not have more than 6 Medivacs. Colossi obviously scale better with upgrades, since they get a ton out of +damage, Archons do as well but in small numbers they are easily dealt with. I feel like Colossus off of one Robo while getting double upgrades and securing a third is the best way, you can then transition into templars after +2+2 and kill Terran if he overmade Vikings. Early Templar advantage: Can catch opponent off guard and kill drops with feedback. Early Colossi advantage: Reduce Medivac production, cannot be dodged, force Marauders which are terrible against upgraded Chargelots that come with Colossi. I think Colossi are way better to aim for in the early stages. Plus, if Terran does some funky business of Bunker rushing or something like that, Immortals will come very handy! My Question: Does anybody know a good PvP opener that can transition into a macro game? I feel like a Immortal expansion is weak to Blinkstalker builds and Blinkstalker Robo loses to 4gate Blinkstalkers (I see that surprisingly often) Mid Master EU here.
How can you get double forge and collosus off of 2 base and not die to drops? I feel when I do that when the terran comes I don't have range and have 1 maybe 2 at max collosus and no gas to feed into stalkers. |
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| Teoita Italy. July 24 2012 00:38. Posts 4247 | Profile Blog # |
On July 24 2012 00:32 Abusion wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 00:21 rEalGuapo wrote:
On July 22 2012 06:13 Drowsy wrote:
On July 22 2012 04:34 -MoOsE- wrote:
I just want a little help with my pvt build
I go 1 gate expo into 3 gate robo. grab my forge and gasses next. (make 2 obs)
then I get +1 armour and twilight
then templar archives and 4 more gates (7 total)
morph one archon for the 2 medivac push ( after feedback on medivac)
then start +2 and grab 3rd after defending drops and storm then go to collosus
Is this a good build, do I need to flip anything around
I do the exact same thing in all my pvts, though usually I grab 2nd forge right around when +1 armor is going to finish and just stay on zealots+archon+templar all game.
I don't really like this style. Here are my reasons: If you get Colossi early they are just as powerful (maybe even more) than Templar. Why even more? Because in small numbers Bio can dodge a Storm very easily but you cannot dodge a Colossus-shot. Also, Colossi force Vikings, early Colossi force early Vikings, meaning Terran will not have more than 6 Medivacs. Colossi obviously scale better with upgrades, since they get a ton out of +damage, Archons do as well but in small numbers they are easily dealt with. I feel like Colossus off of one Robo while getting double upgrades and securing a third is the best way, you can then transition into templars after +2+2 and kill Terran if he overmade Vikings. Early Templar advantage: Can catch opponent off guard and kill drops with feedback. Early Colossi advantage: Reduce Medivac production, cannot be dodged, force Marauders which are terrible against upgraded Chargelots that come with Colossi. I think Colossi are way better to aim for in the early stages. Plus, if Terran does some funky business of Bunker rushing or something like that, Immortals will come very handy! My Question: Does anybody know a good PvP opener that can transition into a macro game? I feel like a Immortal expansion is weak to Blinkstalker builds and Blinkstalker Robo loses to 4gate Blinkstalkers (I see that surprisingly often) Mid Master EU here.
How can you get double forge and collosus off of 2 base and not die to drops? I feel when I do that when the terran comes I don't have range and have 1 maybe 2 at max collosus and no gas to feed into stalkers.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=292549.
Also i've seen people go fast colossus and throwing down the double forges at 9 minutes or so when they have a stronger army; it has less lategame potential but you are safer vs medivac timings.
Really the key to defending drops is just minimap awareness and smart obs positioning, more than specific builds.
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| | Protoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright. |
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| ineversmile United States. July 24 2012 00:43. Posts 571 | Profile Blog # |
| What you do is put one Colossus at each base, then split the rest of your army in half and put them each on a different control group. Then if you deal with a major assault on one of your 2 bases, you cliff-walk the other Colossus over to help. If you have range, you're fine. If you don't have range yet when Medivacs get into your base...you need to either have a good amount of gateway units, or you need to rethink your build timings. |
| | Nostradamus.146@AM, Nostradamus.398@KR, Nostradamus.922@EU http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/ins |
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| cRsJoaoccf Brazil. July 24 2012 02:51. Posts 14 | Profile # |
| Hey guys! I’m having some problems against 1 base collosi all in. I don’t know if I make Stalker, Zealot, Immortal, Colossus or if i expand ): He hits me with a lot of Zealots and 2 or 3 Colossi. If I FF his Zealots, it’ll be broken. Then his Zealots kill my Stalkers easily. And if I make Zealots? Colossi will destroy them. And my Immortal can’t snipe his Colossi because their range upgrade. I’m rly confused about this ): |
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| CecilSunkure United States. July 24 2012 02:58. Posts 2226 | Profile Blog # |
On July 24 2012 02:51 cRsJoaoccf wrote:
Hey guys! I’m having some problems against 1 base collosi all in. I don’t know if I make Stalker, Zealot, Immortal, Colossus or if i expand ): He hits me with a lot of Zealots and 2 or 3 Colossi. If I FF his Zealots, it’ll be broken. Then his Zealots kill my Stalkers easily. And if I make Zealots? Colossi will destroy them. And my Immortal can’t snipe his Colossi because their range upgrade. I’m rly confused about this ):
Drop the Immortals on his Colossus with a Warp prism. You can even do this while he's moving across the map if he has little or no Stalkers. |
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| cRsJoaoccf Brazil. July 24 2012 03:02. Posts 14 | Profile # |
On July 24 2012 02:58 CecilSunkure wrote:
Drop the Immortals on his Colossus with a Warp prism. You can even do this while he's moving across the map if he has little or no Stalkers.
Ok, and what about the Zealots? They will crush the rest of my army ):Last edit: 2012-07-24 03:03:11 |
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| Teoita Italy. July 24 2012 03:08. Posts 4247 | Profile Blog # |
On July 24 2012 03:02 cRsJoaoccf wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 02:58 CecilSunkure wrote:
Drop the Immortals on his Colossus with a Warp prism. You can even do this while he's moving across the map if he has little or no Stalkers.
Ok, and what about the Zealots? They will crush the rest of my army ):
Assuming you went for an immortal expand opening, you should have more gateway units than him. Ideally you want 4-5 gateways pumping units and as many immortals as possible. Alej had vods of such defense around a while ago but i can't find them on his youtube channel  |
| | Protoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright. |
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| cRsJoaoccf Brazil. July 24 2012 03:13. Posts 14 | Profile # |
On July 24 2012 03:08 Teoita wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 03:02 cRsJoaoccf wrote:
On July 24 2012 02:58 CecilSunkure wrote:
Drop the Immortals on his Colossus with a Warp prism. You can even do this while he's moving across the map if he has little or no Stalkers.
Ok, and what about the Zealots? They will crush the rest of my army ):
Assuming you went for an immortal expand opening, you should have more gateway units than him. Ideally you want 4-5 gateways pumping units and as many immortals as possible. Alej had vods of such defense around a while ago but i can't find them on his youtube channel
Should i avoide making Zealots?Last edit: 2012-07-24 03:14:00 |
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| Teoita Italy. July 24 2012 03:18. Posts 4247 | Profile Blog # |
On July 24 2012 03:13 cRsJoaoccf wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 03:08 Teoita wrote:
On July 24 2012 03:02 cRsJoaoccf wrote:
On July 24 2012 02:58 CecilSunkure wrote:
Drop the Immortals on his Colossus with a Warp prism. You can even do this while he's moving across the map if he has little or no Stalkers.
Ok, and what about the Zealots? They will crush the rest of my army ):
Assuming you went for an immortal expand opening, you should have more gateway units than him. Ideally you want 4-5 gateways pumping units and as many immortals as possible. Alej had vods of such defense around a while ago but i can't find them on his youtube channel
Should i avoide making Zealots?
Nah a good zealot/stalker combination will do. You don't want too many sentries though since those don't do anything if he has colossi. What i personally do lately (not sure if this is good) when immortal expanding vs 1base colossus is pulling 2 probes off gas leaving only 4, since zealot/stalker/immortal isn't too gas intensive. Note, only do this if you know he is 1base allining you. |
| | Protoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright. |
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| cRsJoaoccf Brazil. July 24 2012 03:24. Posts 14 | Profile # |
On July 24 2012 03:18 Teoita wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 03:13 cRsJoaoccf wrote:
On July 24 2012 03:08 Teoita wrote:
On July 24 2012 03:02 cRsJoaoccf wrote:
On July 24 2012 02:58 CecilSunkure wrote:
Drop the Immortals on his Colossus with a Warp prism. You can even do this while he's moving across the map if he has little or no Stalkers.
Ok, and what about the Zealots? They will crush the rest of my army ):
Assuming you went for an immortal expand opening, you should have more gateway units than him. Ideally you want 4-5 gateways pumping units and as many immortals as possible. Alej had vods of such defense around a while ago but i can't find them on his youtube channel
Should i avoide making Zealots?
Nah a good zealot/stalker combination will do. You don't want too many sentries though since those don't do anything if he has colossi. What i personally do lately (not sure if this is good) when immortal expanding vs 1base colossus is pulling 2 probes off gas leaving only 4, since zealot/stalker/immortal isn't too gas intensive. Note, only do this if you know he is 1base allining you.
Hm ok! Ty very much dude :D |
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| CecilSunkure United States. July 24 2012 06:16. Posts 2226 | Profile Blog # |
On July 24 2012 03:13 cRsJoaoccf wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 03:08 Teoita wrote:
On July 24 2012 03:02 cRsJoaoccf wrote:
On July 24 2012 02:58 CecilSunkure wrote:
Drop the Immortals on his Colossus with a Warp prism. You can even do this while he's moving across the map if he has little or no Stalkers.
Ok, and what about the Zealots? They will crush the rest of my army ):
Assuming you went for an immortal expand opening, you should have more gateway units than him. Ideally you want 4-5 gateways pumping units and as many immortals as possible. Alej had vods of such defense around a while ago but i can't find them on his youtube channel
Should i avoide making Zealots?
If you want to die, then yes  |
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| Sated England. July 24 2012 10:01. Posts 3375 | Profile Blog # |
General question: What do you do if you open 2 Gate Robo against Terran and scout that they're going for a 2 Port Banshee opening? I don't have a replay because this hasn't actually happened to me yet, but I figured it will someday and I don't want to flat-out die to it.
At the point where I'd scout the Terran with my first Observer, I'd have a Stalker, 3 Sentries and a Zealot (or maybe another Zealot and another Sentry depending on the size of the map). I'd also be constructing a Forge. My initial thought was that I should cancel the Forge, throw down a Stargate for Phoenixes ASAP whilst making mostly Zealots from my Gateways, cutting Probes at around 35 and adding more Gateways as affordable (a 2 Port Banshee opening usually indicates some sort of Banshee/Marine timing, which I think Phoenix/Zealot would do well against). Is that the correct type of response?Last edit: 2012-07-24 10:05:31 |
| | EU Masters Protoss Playing For Team SC2Improve ~ www.sc2improve.org ~ "I'd rather play a strategy that is worse but that I feel confident in than play the better strategy not really feeling it and not being 100% behind it" - Grubby | |
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| monk United States. July 24 2012 14:26. Posts 6804 | Profile Blog # |
On July 24 2012 10:01 Sated wrote:
General question: What do you do if you open 2 Gate Robo against Terran and scout that they're going for a 2 Port Banshee opening? I don't have a replay because this hasn't actually happened to me yet, but I figured it will someday and I don't want to flat-out die to it.
At the point where I'd scout the Terran with my first Observer, I'd have a Stalker, 3 Sentries and a Zealot (or maybe another Zealot and another Sentry depending on the size of the map). I'd also be constructing a Forge. My initial thought was that I should cancel the Forge, throw down a Stargate for Phoenixes ASAP whilst making mostly Zealots from my Gateways, cutting Probes at around 35 and adding more Gateways as affordable (a 2 Port Banshee opening usually indicates some sort of Banshee/Marine timing, which I think Phoenix/Zealot would do well against). Is that the correct type of response?
It's in my protoss FAQs. By the time you scout it, you should already have an expansion building. Throw down a stargate and forge immediately. Proceed to make cannons at the front and phoenix, while focusing on zealots for your ground forces. This is all assuming it's a 1 base 2 port banshee all-in. |
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