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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | Roynalf Finland. December 28 2011 20:35. Posts 880 | Profile # |
On December 28 2011 16:57 whistle wrote:
Hello mariners, two questions:
1. What is the proper way to deal with the 3 base Roach/Baneling + Drop attack shown in GSL recently? I think the games are Polt vs Leenock and MMA vs DRG, both on Antiga Shipyard. Is it possible to deal with this while going standard Marine/Tank/Medivac or do you need to incorporate some other unit (Marauder?).
2. Also assuming I'm going Marine/Tank/Medivac, how should I adapt when I scout an Infestor/Ling style with lots of upgrades? Probably going fast Hive, usually for Ultralisks. I know drops become much more effective; are there unit composition considerations that should be made? Heard that getting more tanks than normal is correct, along with ghosts... is this true?
Marine/tank/medivac deals quite well with ling infestor ultra, try to get faster upgrades and ghosts earlier and you should be fine. You also should be ready to make marauders if your opponent remaxes with mostly ultras. Spreading units helps alot |
| | (V) (;,,;) (V) Woopwoopwoopwoop |
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| Sianos December 28 2011 20:52. Posts 532 | Profile # |
| The proper response to the mass ling style is to get more tanks and earlier ghosts.Then you need to stay more passive and take your expandtions faster. He can´t kill your expandtions with this style, when you are in a good position. Use a lot of drops for your agression and wait for a good tank count to attack Zerg expandtions. |
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| aviator116 United States. December 29 2011 01:10. Posts 817 | Profile # |
| a bunch of times in pro TvT i see a big marine-tank battle, and all the marines are blasted away. then, both the players have 6-7 tanks remaining, on equal upgrades. one of the players unsieges and just straight-up attacks the other guy's tanks. is this viable normally? in what scenarios should i do this? |
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| Huggerz Great Britain. December 29 2011 02:07. Posts 918 | Profile # |
On December 28 2011 20:52 Sianos wrote:
The proper response to the mass ling style is to get more tanks and earlier ghosts.Then you need to stay more passive and take your expandtions faster. He can´t kill your expandtions with this style, when you are in a good position. Use a lot of drops for your agression and wait for a good tank count to attack Zerg expandtions.
What? The unit part of this is just nonsense, lol. More tanks + earlier ghosts and against mass ling? |
| | “It's like poker. You can play your best, but you've got to know when to fold your cards and take a rest, and know when to hold your cards, hold your breath and hope that nobody else is stacking the deck." |
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| Roynalf Finland. December 29 2011 02:08. Posts 880 | Profile # |
On December 29 2011 01:10 aviator116 wrote:
a bunch of times in pro TvT i see a big marine-tank battle, and all the marines are blasted away. then, both the players have 6-7 tanks remaining, on equal upgrades. one of the players unsieges and just straight-up attacks the other guy's tanks. is this viable normally? in what scenarios should i do this?
Sieged tanks shoot slower, have bigger range and do aoe. if you can spread your unsieged tanks and have them at pretty close range anyway unsieged tanks will win.Last edit: 2011-12-29 02:08:49 |
| | (V) (;,,;) (V) Woopwoopwoopwoop |
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| BlitzerSC Italy. December 29 2011 02:13. Posts 2661 | Profile # |
On December 28 2011 20:52 Sianos wrote:
The proper response to the mass ling style is to get more tanks and earlier ghosts.Then you need to stay more passive and take your expandtions faster. He can´t kill your expandtions with this style, when you are in a good position. Use a lot of drops for your agression and wait for a good tank count to attack Zerg expandtions.
Lol ? This is so wrong. Against mass ling you just keep going with marines/tank/medivac.
Remember that, if your opponent is going for MASS LING ( no banelings ), siege it's not necessary and most of the time you must not siege because tanks will just murder all your marines. |
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| Roynalf Finland. December 29 2011 02:25. Posts 880 | Profile # |
| Does anybody know whats the deal with sudden meta game shift on Korean scene, where ppl tend to mass vikings at TvT, and I am not meaning vikings with siege tanks or vikings in late game, I mean going for 1-1-1 reactored startport and just make marines, healions and vikings, I saw Jinro doing this on his stream, saw fOrGG playing against this and saw Noblesse do this against Jjaki at KSL |
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| bananajk Germany. December 29 2011 03:58. Posts 86 | Profile # |
I think that strategie isnt that new, there were some other strats with helions + air suppor(banshee,viking, bc, ravens) which were beating every other strat, if it was good executed. I think i hav to try this too :D
I think i would play 1 rax expo, with a 1-1-1 following up and then adding one fac and one port to pump out more units, should be save vs the 1 viking marine tank all-in.
mfg banana |
| | http://de.twitch.tv/bananajk |
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| saaaa Germany. December 29 2011 06:28. Posts 374 | Profile # |
What is the optimal response in TvP against 3gate+DT or DT Expand?
my thoughts about this:
- faster 3rd with 1-2 turrets for detection
- multi prong drops
anything else?
Should i build a raven asap and try just to kill him? |
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| bananajk Germany. December 29 2011 06:51. Posts 86 | Profile # |
I think the dts sometimes arrive one minute after the 4 gate timing(I am using this for beeing asfe to float out my expo), and I dont think a faster 3rd will help you there, after the first dts arrived you can put it down in your main and pull up some turrets. If you got the starport and a techlab, feel free to build raven, ithink you will be able to kill him because a heavy tech and a FE are costing lots of money and so hew won´t bei abled to pump out lots of units. I usually pushed with stim, a raven and maybe concussive shells. But i haven´´t played against lately, so i don´t know how to response properly to this.
mfg banana |
| | http://de.twitch.tv/bananajk |
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| iAmJeffReY United States. December 29 2011 08:07. Posts 3428 | Profile # |
On December 29 2011 06:28 saaaa wrote:
What is the optimal response in TvP against 3gate+DT or DT Expand?
my thoughts about this:
- faster 3rd with 1-2 turrets for detection
- multi prong drops
anything else?
Should i build a raven asap and try just to kill him?
I just posted something along these lines. I always find a fast raven into a fast push is the key vs DT rushers. They cut so many gas units for those DT, which become archons shortly.
It really all depends on how much he invests into the DT rush. Is it just 1-2 DTs? Then he isn't behind, and scan his nat....it's there and saturated with his army sitting. Was it more DTs? Then you are probably in the clear to do a timing attack with a raven and stim.
Hell, I'm sure we all remember the mara marine banshee raven timing pushes vs protoss? I still do it, it hasn't stopped working. You already are going 3-5 rax if you're gasless/reactor/reaper FEing. It's no skin off your back to just get a raven out earlier, and just swap it onto an existing tech lab.
Does anybody know whats the deal with sudden meta game shift on Korean scene, where ppl tend to mass vikings at TvT, and I am not meaning vikings with siege tanks or vikings in late game, I mean going for 1-1-1 reactored startport and just make marines, healions and vikings, I saw Jinro doing this on his stream, saw fOrGG playing against this and saw Noblesse do this against Jjaki at KSL
It's becoming very popular, and I have yet to find a counter to this style. I even try to emulate, and can never effectively do it. I also saw jinro do it, and it seems to be a counter to mech, if I'm not mistaken. The all fast, aggressive reactored out units do very well against mech. As 95% all open banshee, or cloakshee, reactor vikings then take away all banshee control and gives you control of the sky. Mech terrans don't get marines. Nothing to shoot up, besides vikings. He has to go into vikings, or you got a HUGE lead. If they do go vikings... that's less gas on tanks, and he's probably going to be hellion heavy. Marine hellion and landed viking DPS is dominant due to the sheer number of units you'll have with it. It seems to have to hit early, but when it does it's a powerful hit. They can't pull scvs... marine/hellion/viking ROLLS scvs/marines/hellions.
Vikings on the ground...don't sleep on 'em. 7 Range, 14 damage, 1s attack speed. They are so expensive and weak HP wise though. so they need a shield... like mass marine/hellion. You are kinda forced to guard a lot of shit, because dropped vikings will shit on the hellions pulls to defend them, meaning less at the front...etc
I could be mistaken, but to me, it seems to be an early game counter to mech terran.Last edit: 2011-12-29 08:13:12 |
| | iAmJeffReY.267 /// http://www.twitch.tv/iamjeffrey_ |
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| SkullZ9 Belgium. December 29 2011 20:26. Posts 1350 | Profile # |
Hi, I'm a plat zerg who wants to switch to terran, and i have some questions for you 
First, for the BOs, are those good and safe ?
TvT : banshee cloak opening expand (where can i find a bo for this) then marine/tank)
TvZ : reactor helion expand then marine/tank
TvP : 2 rax expand ?? Then bio play with viking/medivacs and fast upgrades (à la Thorzain)
And do you have general advices for a newcomer, how to macro properly (how many structures per base ?) and micro ? Example : should I attack the scvs or the marines with my banshees in the early game TvT ?
And one last thing, the hotkeys : i was thinking of
1 - ground army
2 - drops or vikings
3 - tanks or vikings in TvP
4 - OC
5 - Rax
6 - Factory
7 - Starport
8 - /
9 - Armory upgrades
0 - E-bay upgrades
I would be very happy if someone can answer my questions !!
Thanks
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| Willzzz United Kingdom. December 29 2011 20:33. Posts 685 | Profile # |
For TvP 1 rax FE is more standard, but 2 rax pressure into expand can be good on smaller maps.
You will need a hotkey for ghosts at some point.
Bear in mind that in TvT cloak is quite a common opening, so everyone will expect it perhaps even opening raven. |
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| Bwall Sweden. December 29 2011 21:12. Posts 109 | Profile # |
On December 29 2011 20:26 SkullZ9 wrote:Hi, I'm a plat zerg who wants to switch to terran, and i have some questions for you First, for the BOs, are those good and safe ? TvT : banshee cloak opening expand (where can i find a bo for this) then marine/tank) TvZ : reactor helion expand then marine/tank TvP : 2 rax expand ?? Then bio play with viking/medivacs and fast upgrades (à la Thorzain) And do you have general advices for a newcomer, how to macro properly (how many structures per base ?) and micro ? Example : should I attack the scvs or the marines with my banshees in the early game TvT ? And one last thing, the hotkeys : i was thinking of 1 - ground army 2 - drops or vikings 3 - tanks or vikings in TvP 4 - OC 5 - Rax 6 - Factory 7 - Starport 8 - / 9 - Armory upgrades 0 - E-bay upgrades I would be very happy if someone can answer my questions !! Thanks
I find having all production on 5 and then tabing between the different structures to be easier. Upgrades don't need 2 different hotkeys, just have them on 6 and use tab there aswell. Your army tabs seem fine, experiment a little and see what u like the most.
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| | Big fan of ThorZaIN,TaeJa and HerO! |
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| saaaa Germany. December 29 2011 23:31. Posts 374 | Profile # |
how many ghosts should i have the mid- and lategame against protoss..
if he goes the normal Collosus, Gatewayunits style ?
if he goes Archon+Zealot ? |
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| Recognizable Netherlands. December 29 2011 23:37. Posts 1397 | Profile Blog # |
On December 29 2011 23:31 saaaa wrote:
how many ghosts should i have the mid- and lategame against protoss..
if he goes the normal Collosus, Gatewayunits style ?
if he goes Archon+Zealot ?
4/5 against normal, as many as you can get against archon zeal w/ having a good ground army and medivacs.Last edit: 2011-12-29 23:37:18 |
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| saaaa Germany. December 29 2011 23:41. Posts 374 | Profile # |
On December 29 2011 23:37 Recognizable wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 23:31 saaaa wrote:
how many ghosts should i have the mid- and lategame against protoss..
if he goes the normal Collosus, Gatewayunits style ?
if he goes Archon+Zealot ?
4/5 against normal, as many as you can get against archon zeal w/ having a good ground army and medivacs.
oh i missed the unitcomposition with HT's  how many should i get there? What is maximum? 12-15? |
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| BlitzerSC Italy. December 30 2011 00:12. Posts 2661 | Profile # |
On December 29 2011 06:28 saaaa wrote:
What is the optimal response in TvP against 3gate+DT or DT Expand?
my thoughts about this:
- faster 3rd with 1-2 turrets for detection
- multi prong drops
anything else?
Should i build a raven asap and try just to kill him?
In my opinion the best build to do vs toss is cloack banshee harassment into:
- Exp if toss is still on one base and you killed a few probes
- 1/1/1 all-in if toss goes for a early nexus.
I really like this build because vs 4gates/blink all-in/dt/voidray is just an auto win :D
If you go for 1 rax fast exp i think you should just put a turret up, save some scans and go kill him.Last edit: 2011-12-30 00:12:48 |
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| Bwall Sweden. December 30 2011 02:03. Posts 109 | Profile # |
On December 29 2011 23:41 saaaa wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 23:37 Recognizable wrote:
On December 29 2011 23:31 saaaa wrote:
how many ghosts should i have the mid- and lategame against protoss..
if he goes the normal Collosus, Gatewayunits style ?
if he goes Archon+Zealot ?
4/5 against normal, as many as you can get against archon zeal w/ having a good ground army and medivacs.
oh i missed the unitcomposition with HT's how many should i get there? What is maximum? 12-15?
Having many ghosts vP doesn't work the same way as they do vZ. vP they're for emps and the occasional ht-snipe, but vZ you can use them to kill broods/infestors/ultras. Don't go over 10 ghosts vP, unless he has a LOT of hts/archons. |
| | Big fan of ThorZaIN,TaeJa and HerO! |
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| Willzzz United Kingdom. December 30 2011 03:10. Posts 685 | Profile # |
| Nothing wrong with over 10 ghosts at all, always great to be able to EMP every single unit he has, and hell snipe zealots if you have spare energy, even ghosts normal attack is deadly vs zealots. |
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