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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | Captain Soban United States. May 28 2012 13:50. Posts 119 | Profile # |
On May 28 2012 10:23 bbrian wrote:
This might be a general question but not thread worthy... how exactly do I scout? I've made Masters but I realized that my scouting level is Bronze
Try to be more specific. There are many different ways and reasons why you should scout. |
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| Sianos May 28 2012 23:26. Posts 528 | Profile # |
On May 28 2012 10:23 bbrian wrote:
This might be a general question but not thread worthy... how exactly do I scout? I've made Masters but I realized that my scouting level is Bronze
When you are scouting you look in what direction your opponent is going. This can be either army, tech or economy. If you can find out in which direction he his heading, you can figure out what your opponents next action can be.
Is he teching? Then he can either start an attack, when he has some tech units out or he uses his tech for getting an expandtion.
Does he build up an army? The most common doing after building up an army is attacking and expanding while doing the attack, but there are also some players who don´t attack and just use the army to defend his expandtion.
Does he build an expandtion? Then at this moment your opponent is focused on defending it, so you are safe from big attacks. |
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| Chaggi Korea (South). May 28 2012 23:31. Posts 1083 | Profile # |
I've been working in bunker rushes to my build and just wondering how other people do it. I feel like pros and other really good players get it up a lot but I'm not sure why mine doesn't work as well 
1-2 scvs? rally marines? |
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| Sianos May 28 2012 23:47. Posts 528 | Profile # |
On May 28 2012 23:31 Chaggi wrote:I've been working in bunker rushes to my build and just wondering how other people do it. I feel like pros and other really good players get it up a lot but I'm not sure why mine doesn't work as well 1-2 scvs? rally marines?
Which matchup? In what situation? Be a bit more specific. |
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| HeroMystic United States. May 29 2012 00:51. Posts 894 | Profile # |
On May 28 2012 06:26 dohgg wrote:
I wanna talk about the current metagame TvZ, and will be looking for any pros/master thoughts about it.
There has been a very popular 1 rax FE into hellions and into banshees lateron - i was thinking about mixing 1 raven (instead of 2ed banshee, not getting cloak, but getting HSM upgrde instead).
I m not talking about a HUGE Raven compostion or mech heavy compostion that evolves ravens many times - i m just talking bout 1 raven that will be produced after the 1st banshee. and his role during that game (ofc with the detection abilty) will be to land that 1 cruical seeker missle on that 1 cruical big 160 engagement.
Let me summurize it abit - getting 1 raven, with HSM upgrdes insatead of the more normal 2ed banshee and cloak that usally comes with that build.
Any thoughts?
sorry for bad english..
I'm assuming this is with the standard Marine/Tank composition.
Ravens have been getting a lot more love from players like Thorzain, as they absolutely murder Broodlords with HSM. However you usually see 8 or 9 of them in the lategame. I'm assuming from your perspective you'll be relying on 1 HSM before hive tech comes out, as just one HSM would be quite ineffective against Broodlord/Infestor.
I'll get this out of the way and say this would be really good against Mutaling. Mutas cannot handle one HSM hit and still be an effective defense. However, I can't see this working all that well with an Infestor-based build (most likely Ling/Infestor/Ultra). Quite simply, the range on HSM is abyssmal, and the only "crucial" seeker missile hit that would matter is landing on a bunch of banelings. Upgraded marines and tanks won't really care about Zerglings, and HSM is pretty bad vs Ultras. I'd actually prefer to get Ghosts to EMP/Snipe Infestors.
So vs Mutaling I'd say go for it. But vs Infestor builds I don't see HSM mattering much. |
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| Daniel C Hong Kong. May 29 2012 00:55. Posts 1434 | Profile # |
On May 29 2012 00:51 HeroMystic wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 06:26 dohgg wrote:
I wanna talk about the current metagame TvZ, and will be looking for any pros/master thoughts about it.
There has been a very popular 1 rax FE into hellions and into banshees lateron - i was thinking about mixing 1 raven (instead of 2ed banshee, not getting cloak, but getting HSM upgrde instead).
I m not talking about a HUGE Raven compostion or mech heavy compostion that evolves ravens many times - i m just talking bout 1 raven that will be produced after the 1st banshee. and his role during that game (ofc with the detection abilty) will be to land that 1 cruical seeker missle on that 1 cruical big 160 engagement.
Let me summurize it abit - getting 1 raven, with HSM upgrdes insatead of the more normal 2ed banshee and cloak that usally comes with that build.
Any thoughts?
sorry for bad english..
I'm assuming this is with the standard Marine/Tank composition. Ravens have been getting a lot more love from players like Thorzain, as they absolutely murder Broodlords with HSM. However you usually see 8 or 9 of them in the lategame. I'm assuming from your perspective you'll be relying on 1 HSM before hive tech comes out, as just one HSM would be quite ineffective against Broodlord/Infestor. I'll get this out of the way and say this would be really good against Mutaling. Mutas cannot handle one HSM hit and still be an effective defense. However, I can't see this working all that well with an Infestor-based build (most likely Ling/Infestor/Ultra). Quite simply, the range on HSM is abyssmal, and the only "crucial" seeker missile hit that would matter is landing on a bunch of banelings. Upgraded marines and tanks won't really care about Zerglings, and HSM is pretty bad vs Ultras. I'd actually prefer to get Ghosts to EMP/Snipe Infestors. So vs Mutaling I'd say go for it. But vs Infestor builds I don't see HSM mattering much.
Agreed...why get the seeker missile upgrade with only 1 raven? However, banshee + raven would be a good way to deny creep (instead of 2 ravens) which I wish we'd see more experimentation on.
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| BadgKat United States. May 29 2012 01:51. Posts 155 | Profile # |
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 29 2012 00:55 Daniel C wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 00:51 HeroMystic wrote:
On May 28 2012 06:26 dohgg wrote:
I wanna talk about the current metagame TvZ, and will be looking for any pros/master thoughts about it.
There has been a very popular 1 rax FE into hellions and into banshees lateron - i was thinking about mixing 1 raven (instead of 2ed banshee, not getting cloak, but getting HSM upgrde instead).
I m not talking about a HUGE Raven compostion or mech heavy compostion that evolves ravens many times - i m just talking bout 1 raven that will be produced after the 1st banshee. and his role during that game (ofc with the detection abilty) will be to land that 1 cruical seeker missle on that 1 cruical big 160 engagement.
Let me summurize it abit - getting 1 raven, with HSM upgrdes insatead of the more normal 2ed banshee and cloak that usally comes with that build.
Any thoughts?
sorry for bad english..
I'm assuming this is with the standard Marine/Tank composition. Ravens have been getting a lot more love from players like Thorzain, as they absolutely murder Broodlords with HSM. However you usually see 8 or 9 of them in the lategame. I'm assuming from your perspective you'll be relying on 1 HSM before hive tech comes out, as just one HSM would be quite ineffective against Broodlord/Infestor. I'll get this out of the way and say this would be really good against Mutaling. Mutas cannot handle one HSM hit and still be an effective defense. However, I can't see this working all that well with an Infestor-based build (most likely Ling/Infestor/Ultra). Quite simply, the range on HSM is abyssmal, and the only "crucial" seeker missile hit that would matter is landing on a bunch of banelings. Upgraded marines and tanks won't really care about Zerglings, and HSM is pretty bad vs Ultras. I'd actually prefer to get Ghosts to EMP/Snipe Infestors. So vs Mutaling I'd say go for it. But vs Infestor builds I don't see HSM mattering much.
Agreed...why get the seeker missile upgrade with only 1 raven? However, banshee + raven would be a good way to deny creep (instead of 2 ravens) which I wish we'd see more experimentation on.
I've seen QXC doing something similar to this on his stream lately. It seems really effective. I actually don't think I've seen him lose a tvz in awhile. |
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| dohgg May 29 2012 02:36. Posts 221 | Profile # |
First of all - i wanna make things more clear - I am talking about a 1 Rax FE into hellions into banshee - this build is quite famous as it been used many times by MKP and MMA.
Well the general idea is that with the 1 rax FE into hellions into banshees u do get a tech labbed starport - the banshee role in that aspect is to give you that mid game map control and is very useful vs holding non-lair aggresions.
The general idea stands behind getting 2 banshee vs non-lair aggresion that allows you to 1 shot banes as a defensive prespect , and to 1 shot drone as an offensive prespect.
But after i gave a little bit of thought to that , was wondering why not abusing that period of time when you have a tech-lab on a starport, and instead of going into a very expansvie cloak upgrade, which zergs dont even know if you got it or not, and will probably get overseer / make spores anyway. get 1 raven and HSM upgrde instead of the 2ed banshee.
Another thing is that you will have enough energy for HSM for about 100%, since you get that raven pretty early before your first push. and yeah, i think the main role of that one HSM will be to deal with that swarm of banlings... dont you guys think that this 1 blast will be game changing and might worth it? instead of cloak.Last edit: 2012-05-29 02:39:00 |
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| PachaL Canada. May 29 2012 02:57. Posts 16 | Profile # |
On May 29 2012 02:36 dohgg wrote:
First of all - i wanna make things more clear - I am talking about a 1 Rax FE into hellions into banshee - this build is quite famous as it been used many times by MKP and MMA.
Well the general idea is that with the 1 rax FE into hellions into banshees u do get a tech labbed starport - the banshee role in that aspect is to give you that mid game map control and is very useful vs holding non-lair aggresions.
The general idea stands behind getting 2 banshee vs non-lair aggresion that allows you to 1 shot banes as a defensive prespect , and to 1 shot drone as an offensive prespect.
But after i gave a little bit of thought to that , was wondering why not abusing that period of time when you have a tech-lab on a starport, and instead of going into a very expansvie cloak upgrade, which zergs dont even know if you got it or not, and will probably get overseer / make spores anyway. get 1 raven and HSM upgrde instead of the 2ed banshee.
Another thing is that you will have enough energy for HSM for about 100%, since you get that raven pretty early before your first push. and yeah, i think the main role of that one HSM will be to deal with that swarm of banlings... dont you guys think that this 1 blast will be game changing and might worth it? instead of cloak.
The problem is that you're banking on one good HSM hit, what if you miss? IMO 2 banshees would be better, but you could skip cloak if you wanted to, and get into some faster tanks/upgrades. That being said i would still get a raven at somepoint to help control creep. |
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| dohgg May 29 2012 04:36. Posts 221 | Profile # |
On May 29 2012 02:57 PachaL wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:36 dohgg wrote:
First of all - i wanna make things more clear - I am talking about a 1 Rax FE into hellions into banshee - this build is quite famous as it been used many times by MKP and MMA.
Well the general idea is that with the 1 rax FE into hellions into banshees u do get a tech labbed starport - the banshee role in that aspect is to give you that mid game map control and is very useful vs holding non-lair aggresions.
The general idea stands behind getting 2 banshee vs non-lair aggresion that allows you to 1 shot banes as a defensive prespect , and to 1 shot drone as an offensive prespect.
But after i gave a little bit of thought to that , was wondering why not abusing that period of time when you have a tech-lab on a starport, and instead of going into a very expansvie cloak upgrade, which zergs dont even know if you got it or not, and will probably get overseer / make spores anyway. get 1 raven and HSM upgrde instead of the 2ed banshee.
Another thing is that you will have enough energy for HSM for about 100%, since you get that raven pretty early before your first push. and yeah, i think the main role of that one HSM will be to deal with that swarm of banlings... dont you guys think that this 1 blast will be game changing and might worth it? instead of cloak.
The problem is that you're banking on one good HSM hit, what if you miss? IMO 2 banshees would be better, but you could skip cloak if you wanted to, and get into some faster tanks/upgrades. That being said i would still get a raven at somepoint to help control creep.
Why u stating its a something that i bank on? i think going cloak banshee and thworing 200/200 only to see a zerg ready with an overseer and 5 queens is much more of a "gamble" or "something that u bank on" , much more then reasearching HSM.
Just adding a vibale route of tech that can help you much more then a another banshee "pew pew"ing in battle... imo |
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| iAmJeffReY United States. May 29 2012 04:45. Posts 3385 | Profile # |
On May 29 2012 04:36 dohgg wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 02:57 PachaL wrote:
On May 29 2012 02:36 dohgg wrote:
First of all - i wanna make things more clear - I am talking about a 1 Rax FE into hellions into banshee - this build is quite famous as it been used many times by MKP and MMA.
Well the general idea is that with the 1 rax FE into hellions into banshees u do get a tech labbed starport - the banshee role in that aspect is to give you that mid game map control and is very useful vs holding non-lair aggresions.
The general idea stands behind getting 2 banshee vs non-lair aggresion that allows you to 1 shot banes as a defensive prespect , and to 1 shot drone as an offensive prespect.
But after i gave a little bit of thought to that , was wondering why not abusing that period of time when you have a tech-lab on a starport, and instead of going into a very expansvie cloak upgrade, which zergs dont even know if you got it or not, and will probably get overseer / make spores anyway. get 1 raven and HSM upgrde instead of the 2ed banshee.
Another thing is that you will have enough energy for HSM for about 100%, since you get that raven pretty early before your first push. and yeah, i think the main role of that one HSM will be to deal with that swarm of banlings... dont you guys think that this 1 blast will be game changing and might worth it? instead of cloak.
The problem is that you're banking on one good HSM hit, what if you miss? IMO 2 banshees would be better, but you could skip cloak if you wanted to, and get into some faster tanks/upgrades. That being said i would still get a raven at somepoint to help control creep.
Why u stating its a something that i bank on? i think going cloak banshee and thworing 200/200 only to see a zerg ready with an overseer and 5 queens is much more of a "gamble" or "something that u bank on" , much more then reasearching HSM. Just adding a vibale route of tech that can help you much more then a another banshee "pew pew"ing in battle... imo
Banshees can deny creep and keep zergs queens away from injecting and spreading creep.
A raven with HSM is an investment that will very rarely ever pay off. Not viable to go for it that early. That's like 400 gas not going to stim, cs, +1, +1, armory, stanks and siege.
A raven with a banshee, or two, no cloak is viable as a creep killer. Cloak can work with it, but you have to do the damage of the investment.
But to skip banshee, and go raven + HSM just... just no. It's not at all good early game.Last edit: 2012-05-29 04:50:29 |
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 Sergio1992 Italy. May 29 2012 07:12. Posts 521 | Profile Blog # |
| so, do I just go 1 rax fe now on Tvz? Reactor hellion is complete shit? does anyone still 2 rax fe against zergs? |
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 Pokebunny United States. May 29 2012 07:23. Posts 9580 | Profile Blog # |
On May 29 2012 07:12 Sergio1992 wrote:
so, do I just go 1 rax fe now on Tvz? Reactor hellion is complete shit? does anyone still 2 rax fe against zergs?
1rax fe into hellion is my standard, though i still sometimes 2rax on entombed and ohana |
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| iAmJeffReY United States. May 29 2012 09:10. Posts 3385 | Profile # |
On May 29 2012 07:12 Sergio1992 wrote:
so, do I just go 1 rax fe now on Tvz? Reactor hellion is complete shit? does anyone still 2 rax fe against zergs?
My TvZ is still on point, even with patch doing demuslim like opening. You can go into anything, with 1 reactor, 1 tech lab, 3 rax 1 fac and 2 OCs.
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| ClassicThunder United States. May 29 2012 10:02. Posts 9 | Profile Blog # |
Hey after  MC  Bomber final I've been running Into Protoss players using the warp prism to elevator past my bunkers when they're doing a 3 gate robo attack. This has killed me every time I have done a FE and I've only managed to hold it once and I did a 4 rax defensively (so basically had to do a defensive all in including pulling SCVs).
I was hoping to hear from more experienced players how to deal with this. I've Always survived early Protoss pressure when FEing by building 2-3 bunker and repairing them. Now that they can bypass the bunkers I'M having a Really hard time early game.
Also I'm currently silver but the game mentioned I was playing a gold player. Last edit: 2012-05-29 10:05:37 |
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| monkybone May 29 2012 11:05. Posts 2874 | Profile # |
On May 29 2012 10:02 ClassicThunder wrote:Hey after MC Bomber final I've been running Into Protoss players using the warp prism to elevator past my bunkers when they're doing a 3 gate robo attack. This has killed me every time I have done a FE and I've only managed to hold it once and I did a 4 rax defensively (so basically had to do a defensive all in including pulling SCVs). I was hoping to hear from more experienced players how to deal with this. I've Always survived early Protoss pressure when FEing by building 2-3 bunker and repairing them. Now that they can bypass the bunkers I'M having a Really hard time early game. Also I'm currently silver but the game mentioned I was playing a gold player.
My best guess would be to immediately pull all scvs from your main and stim in with your marines and kill the warp prism.Last edit: 2012-05-29 11:05:50 |
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| thehepp United States. May 29 2012 11:24. Posts 64 | Profile # |
| I'm having trouble tvz, mid masters. I'm looking for a 2 base high aggression build. I can't seem to find any good build orders. Does anyone have any? |
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| Yoshi Kirishima United States. May 29 2012 12:13. Posts 9002 | Profile Blog # |
On May 29 2012 11:24 thehepp wrote:
I'm having trouble tvz, mid masters. I'm looking for a 2 base high aggression build. I can't seem to find any good build orders. Does anyone have any?
You could just go 2 rax into 5 rax, start stim/combat at close to 7:25, and have a 2nd tech lab later to help finish stim/combat/concussive
while getting reactor starport out, then pressure at about 10 to 10.5 minutes (arrival)
or you could go 1 rax gasless expand into double gas into 3 rax, tech reactor reactor, then add 2 more rax, pressure at about 10-10.5 mins again
for some of these builds/flows/details, check out day9's videos, like MarineKing's nutty TvZ vs DRG (very interesting builds... very interesting compositions as well)
or like MarineKing's aggressive TvZ
or if you mean like harass, you could even just go hellion banshee opener, you can harass and pressure him hard like that, and possibly finish him off early if you know how
for that, you can check out the guide at the bottom of the guide/blod "Terran Improvement/Mechanics", it's in a spoiler tag titled something like TvZ Mech |
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| TAAF Switzerland. May 29 2012 16:17. Posts 224 | Profile # |
| Having a lot of troubles with my attack timings TvZ. I tend to move out with really small armies all the time and get killed with only doing little damage. I don't know why I keep on doing this... When do you guys move out normally? Not talking about a timing push here, just a mark when I can move out and attack the Zerg. Last edit: 2012-05-29 18:24:25 |
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| Sergio1992 Italy. May 29 2012 17:10. Posts 521 | Profile Blog # |
On May 29 2012 10:02 ClassicThunder wrote:Hey after MC Bomber final I've been running Into Protoss players using the warp prism to elevator past my bunkers when they're doing a 3 gate robo attack. This has killed me every time I have done a FE and I've only managed to hold it once and I did a 4 rax defensively (so basically had to do a defensive all in including pulling SCVs). I was hoping to hear from more experienced players how to deal with this. I've Always survived early Protoss pressure when FEing by building 2-3 bunker and repairing them. Now that they can bypass the bunkers I'M having a Really hard time early game. Also I'm currently silver but the game mentioned I was playing a gold player.
Also, if you see someone all-ining you , get 5 rax :D
On May 29 2012 07:23 Pokebunny wrote:
1rax fe into hellion is my standard, though i still sometimes 2rax on entombed and ohana
good, do you bunker block the ramp? or do you find that too abusive? I never ramp block, but the idea is slowly going through my mind.
Also, which kind of damage are you able to do with it?
On May 29 2012 09:10 iAmJeffReY wrote:
My TvZ is still on point, even with patch doing demuslim like opening. You can go into anything, with 1 reactor, 1 tech lab, 3 rax 1 fac and 2 OCs.
Thank you sir, do you have a link for Demuslim opening? Never heard of it  Last edit: 2012-05-29 17:12:39 |
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