The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 239

On June 01 2012 23:02 Sergio1992 wrote:

I see protoss Gm with 60 apm. Apm is a limit for terran race, not for protoss. mmmmm

It´s not the point that Protoss needs less APM. The think is, that the other races will have other dificulties and if you allways think of switching races just because you are hitting a wall then you will not improve. Just play the race, that´s makes you fun to play and improve it again and again.

Sergio1992 Italy. June 01 2012 23:15. Posts 521

On June 01 2012 23:10 Sianos wrote:

decision making is not a physical limit, but I may be wrong

I understand your points, though. I switched from P to Terran months ago because I founded protoss boring. But Now I can't stand anymore my tbp 0% and I guess it relates to the lack of physical speed I've got. I've got dark thoughts about my future on sc2 if P will get buffed like that everytime, and maps are becoming so large... I can't even bear the pain of thinking how hard it will be as soon as month will passes to battle a protoss. Now I've got 0% win ratio, I wonder in 6 months if things will improve or not.

Last edit: 2012-06-01 23:21:34

Therapist. United States. June 01 2012 23:18. Posts 141

On June 01 2012 23:03 Sergio1992 wrote:

this is not a trend. This is a clear sign of a problem. I would realise if the difference was about the 10%-20%, but this is way more than a mere 10-20% problem

Problem at grandmasters? Possibly. Is it the problem for you? Definitely not. You can overcome all of your problems by improving.

Sergio1992 Italy. June 01 2012 23:23. Posts 521

On June 01 2012 23:18 Therapist. wrote:

Problem at grandmasters? Possibly. Is it the problem for you? Definitely not. You can overcome all of your problems by improving.

I'm mid master. And I've got problems now. Imagine if I will never ever have the will to enter Gm. It would be a no-way ticket being Terran, because I'm a limited player, and I'm not a champion like the Terran GM we currently hav. I play 1 hour a day. Do you realise that? It can't go better than being midmasters. ah , suffice to add that I face 1 terran every 25 games, sometimes every 35-40

.

What a cute thought to see that I'm the only one remaining because I'm a fool. People like to win. If I wish to jump on the winner's car, why shouldn't I?

God, maybe I'm just undisposed right now.

See you later

Last edit: 2012-06-01 23:25:01

Broesl Austria. June 01 2012 23:57. Posts 70

@ Sergio1992:

If you are ignorant and wont listen to people that are trying to help then you are never gonna improve, not even after a race switch. Try the following thread it really helps with mechanics and speed, and you CAN get faster, its not like you were born with max apm 60, Read this and really TRY to improve yourself even if it is just 1 hour a day:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319876

xza Singapore. June 02 2012 04:02. Posts 1598

is there a rough timing for expansions in match ups that I should be doing? assuming im doing a macro buid and im pushing for the mid-late game

Like TvZ
3rd base by 10 mins?

TvP
3rd base by 12 mins?

TvT
3rd base by ???

"What a terrible final. This is why BO3s are horrible. Seriously MKP vs Moon in a final and having it BO3 is like having Mila Kunis naked in your bed and all she'll give you is a HJ with her PJs on. Pffffffffffffffftt." -greatZERG

Dark.EX United States. June 02 2012 05:23. Posts 1504

On June 02 2012 04:02 xza wrote:
is there a rough timing for expansions in match ups that I should be doing? assuming im doing a macro buid and im pushing for the mid-late game

Like TvZ
3rd base by 10 mins?

TvP
3rd base by 12 mins?

TvT
3rd base by ???

It depends on the builds you and you're opponent are doing, although assuming you are going for some variant of an expand build, you will usually EDIT: LAND a third around 13:00-14:00 in all matchups while starting it around 10:00.

Last edit: 2012-06-02 05:40:17

Broesl Austria. June 02 2012 05:32. Posts 70

On June 02 2012 05:23 Fencer710 wrote:

It depends on the builds you and you're opponent are doing, although assuming you are going for some variant of an expand build, you will usually take a third around 14:00 in all matchups.

14min is pretty late if you are actually aiming for a macro game, but you can do it, although you have to seriously pressure if you expand that late, if u wanna go safe macro style thirds come down usually around 10mins (beginning to build) in all matchups, thats the point where you have a decent force that you can push out with.

Of course there are super early thirds, but thats another category of super greedy play, like 3 cc off 1rax in tvp, thats something you can(and should) do if you scout nexus first (but leave the extra cc in your main until you feel save to take your third). The same things apply to 3cc builds in TvZ, whatever variation you prefer.

iAmJeffReY United States. June 02 2012 05:34. Posts 3387

On June 01 2012 23:15 Sergio1992 wrote:

On June 01 2012 23:10 Sianos wrote:

On June 01 2012 23:02 Sergio1992 wrote:

On June 01 2012 23:01 Sianos wrote:

On June 01 2012 21:43 Sergio1992 wrote:
Am I the only one that while spamming loses the focus? I'm thinking to switch race , because I need to be way too fast to play terran, and I'm mid master with around 60 apm. That's why I asked for a guide. But for me it's really hard to have more than 100 apm, while today I met a platinum player that goes around 130 apm constant all game without having any problems (basically 2x my speed!)

Also, QQ Post:

I'm highly discouraged to see that we are disappearing..

I looked over EU:

85 protoss
78 zerg
Guess how many terrans remain?

I looked over NA:
87 zerg
93 protoss
Guess how many terrans remain?

In the End I looked the korean GM:

86 protoss
69 zerg
79 terran (with an high % of smurf, because there are many IIIIIIIIIII)

So I wonder if I should switch . Today I looked my games, I'm in mid master, and my tvp is 0%. I'm seriously discouraged

Increasing APM is very easy and everybody can do this. The key is to start spamming during your games between all your actions. With this you can make hand used to play fast. After the spamming act you have to reduce the unnesesary clicks and you are fine. You just have to leav your "comfort zone" and try new things. Of course because of this you will maybe loose some games and you will want to go back to your "comfort zone", but if you stick by it you will be able to play faster and this will improve your play over time. It´s just the matter of practising the correct things and leaving your "Comfort zone". Even if you switch races because of that you will have similar problems, which will make you switch races again and you will end up with no improving. Just leave your"Comfort zone" and practise.

I see protoss Gm with 60 apm. Apm is a limit for terran race, not for protoss. mmmmm

decision making is not a physical limit, but I may be wrong

Stop the TvP rage dude. It isn't un winnable. It's YOU more often that the protoss, up until a VERY VERY high level. My TvP is awful, and I'm still winning 55-60% of the time according to sc2 gears, over 50+ games.

On June 02 2012 05:23 Fencer710 wrote:

It depends on the builds you and you're opponent are doing, although assuming you are going for some variant of an expand build, you will usually take a third around 14:00 in all matchups.

14 minute third is ridiculously late in so many cases...

--- to sergio.

I gotta nitpick. 400pts is not mid masters. 400 pts is like low low low masters. It's your game play that is suspect, not the protoss race. Stop creating rage threads, and stop spamming useless QQ shit here. Don't copy and post the same stupid topic into this thread. TvP is not unwinnable. You just aren't doing something intrinsically right in the matchup, most likely in the order of macro, strategy, then micro.

Also, not to mention I saw you somewhere saying a blink stalker + robo all in in TvP vs gasless is the 'weakest all in' which is a complete and utter joke. Blink stalker robo vs gasless is quite frankly one of the strongest all ins on MANY maps. It's like, right behind 3 gate immortal bust.

On your account, you have 70 games. Not a fucking chance those numbers are right in the amount of TvT you've played. Now please, stop spewing stupid statements. I play no more than an hour a day, if that, during the week. Maybe 2 hours friday night, and saturday night. I have about the same amount of games this season as you, and I'm at 1k masters. It's you, not protoss. Please, stop bitching, and maybe ask for advice/help. Post your losses. This is a help thread, not a rage/whine because I can't improve my APM/multitasking thread.

It's so aggravating people making up fucking figures like that. I've played on EU, and NA, and KR. The amount of terrans is low, yes, but not that fucking low. Also, please, I gotta say it again.... 400pts is not mid masters. I'm on the high end of mid masters at 1000 pts.

Am I the only one that while spamming loses the focus? I'm thinking to switch race , because I need to be way too fast to play terran, and I'm mid master with around 60 apm. That's why I asked for a guide. But for me it's really hard to have more than 100 apm, while today I met a platinum player that goes around 130 apm constant all game without having any problems (basically 2x my speed!)

Also, QQ Post:

I'm highly discouraged to see that we are disappearing..

I looked over EU:

85 protoss
78 zerg
Guess how many terrans remain?

I looked over NA:
87 zerg
93 protoss
Guess how many terrans remain?

In the End I looked the korean GM:

86 protoss
69 zerg
79 terran (with an high % of smurf, because there are many IIIIIIIIIII)

So I wonder if I should switch . Today I looked my games, I'm in mid master, and my tvp is 0%. I'm seriously discouraged

You realize you posted this same stupid drivel 3, if not 4 times, today. You complain about low APM, and saying you know GM protoss with 60 apm. Please, show a replay of this GM protoss with 60 apm. Stop saying stupid crap.

Last edit: 2012-06-02 05:47:19

iAmJeffReY.267 /// http://www.twitch.tv/iamjeffrey_

Dark.EX United States. June 02 2012 05:37. Posts 1504

On June 02 2012 05:34 iAmJeffReY wrote:

On June 01 2012 23:15 Sergio1992 wrote:

On June 01 2012 23:10 Sianos wrote:

On June 01 2012 23:02 Sergio1992 wrote:

On June 01 2012 23:01 Sianos wrote:

I see protoss Gm with 60 apm. Apm is a limit for terran race, not for protoss. mmmmm

decision making is not a physical limit, but I may be wrong

14 minute third is ridiculously late in so many cases...

On June 02 2012 05:32 Broesl wrote:

13* :S

EDIT: I just realized you meant starting the third. I meant landing it...

Last edit: 2012-06-02 05:39:35

Indrium United States. June 02 2012 08:14. Posts 2174

How does one beat 5 rax reaper TvT? By far the most clever and creative cheese I've been hit with lately (he proxied 4 raxes so I didn't get them with a scan, was preparing for reaper into banshee as I did see a fast second gas.)

My execution is awful and the replay probably isn't really relevant because of how bad I played, but here it is anyway.

http://drop.sc/189864

Was supposed to be a gg at the end, typed too fast, not passive-aggressively bming

http://www.twitter.com/indrium | qxc, Bomber, aLive, Flash | Sheth, Ret, Curious, viOlet, Jaedong | Socke, HerO | StarTale, Liquid

Pillage United States. June 02 2012 09:10. Posts 804

On June 02 2012 08:14 Indrium wrote:
How does one beat 5 rax reaper TvT? By far the most clever and creative cheese I've been hit with lately (he proxied 4 raxes so I didn't get them with a scan, was preparing for reaper into banshee as I did see a fast second gas.)

My execution is awful and the replay probably isn't really relevant because of how bad I played, but here it is anyway.

http://drop.sc/189864

Was supposed to be a gg at the end, typed too fast, not passive-aggressively bming

Watched the rep and I honestly think what you did against this is a build order loss. From what it seems banshees will never come out in time to stop him from killing all of your scvs, and you won't have enough of the expensive armored units to shoo the reapers away. In fact I don't think you should ever tech to starport unless you see that he has a starport himself when he hasn't expanded (at least until you have seige mode). Just a few marauders and some tanks + a sprinkle of marines should hold this just fine. Reapers don't do shit against anything that is armored, and pulling scvs wouldn't have worked either because he has so much production. Shouldn't be too hard to stop once you see it's coming, reapers are like glass cannons.

"Power has no limits." -Tiberius

Indrium United States. June 02 2012 09:20. Posts 2174

On June 02 2012 09:10 Pillage wrote:

Mmm, okay thanks a bunch! Definitely seems right.

http://www.twitter.com/indrium | qxc, Bomber, aLive, Flash | Sheth, Ret, Curious, viOlet, Jaedong | Socke, HerO | StarTale, Liquid

Whatson United States. June 02 2012 10:02. Posts 4451

lol Sergio1992 aren't you the guy that always gets banned for TvP QQ in LR threads, and always gets [H] threads closed because of balance whine?

Vanchen June 02 2012 10:09. Posts 55

General: You should also send out an SCV at around 6 minutes or so to see what kind of 1 base push is coming at you, especially since you scout the double gas. Personally after seeing what you saw with the scan, I would think hellion reaper medivac. The scan came pretty late and he still had the rax on the techlab so there wasn't really a chance of a banshee coming any time soon.
7:30 Reapers can't actually hop up that cliff. Keep an scv patrolling just outside your natural and only have 1 marine in the bunker and the rest by your cliffs. I'm not sure why you made a techlab with the factory and went for a viking, it's very unlikely he is going to have a banshee with a techlab rax off one base (which I'm assuming you knew was one base), if you are doing that 1 rax FE, I would go tank first seeing as he is on one base. It would just add more HP to your army so reapers don't kill all the marines right away. You also got a blind engie bay which was weird because it could have easily been the 2nd rax before so you could have more marines.

Scouting is the most important thing but THERE WAS NO REASON TO MAKE THE TECHLAB ON THE FACTORY and not use it. If you had a tank in your minline, you would be fine, if you had the banshee instead of a viking, you would be fine. Even if you suspected banshees, you had an engie bay.

On another note http://drop.sc/189919
For this game, do you think I could've won? Instead of going for the base trade, should I have attempted to kill the broodlord infestor ling bling corrupter army with a surround? I realize I didn't make that depot at the end but I don't think I could've won at that point. I did a lot of damage early on but I feel like his counter attacks evened out the game when broods hit the field.

Last edit: 2012-06-02 10:16:36

ST_Bomber|SKLGIM_MC|

dynwar7 June 02 2012 16:55. Posts 1945

Hi guys

In TvZ, Im just wondering, is marine tank medivac still the "standard" and decent way to play it? If so, does anyone have a general build order for that? I did a search but none of them did a build that I want exactly, which is marine tank medivac.

Also in TvP, if the enemy has mass Zealots, mass Ghost is a decent choice since they do so much damage to light units, as much as marauders to armored right?

Thank you

Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....

Blazinghand United States. June 02 2012 17:08. Posts 12151

On June 02 2012 16:55 dynwar7 wrote:
Hi guys

In TvZ, Im just wondering, is marine tank medivac still the "standard" and decent way to play it? If so, does anyone have a general build order for that? I did a search but none of them did a build that I want exactly, which is marine tank medivac.

In TvZ a super standard opener, even for marine/tank games, is the Reactor Hellion Expand. The less economical but more classic version goes 10 depot, 12 rax, 13 gas, OC, Factory @100 gas, Reactor on rax @50 gas (after 1-2 marines), make a CC at 400 minerals and swap the factory on the reactor.

You make usually 4-6 hellions before reversing the addon swap to boost your marine production. These hellions are useful for asserting some early map control before you can muster a marine/tank army. The Factory is used to make tanks, and provides the tech to make a staport. Typically once you're on 2 base you'll be adding more barracks before going up to a starport.

On June 02 2012 16:55 dynwar7 wrote:
Also in TvP, if the enemy has mass Zealots, mass Ghost is a decent choice since they do so much damage to light units, as much as marauders to armored right?

Thank you

If an opponent is massing Zealots, usually marines are your best bet, due to their high dps. You'll want to support your marines with medivacs to let them stim and kite more easily, as well as marauders to absorb a little damage and provide some concussive shell. Ghosts provide ok damage against Zealots, but due to their limited mobility and lack of stimpack, are largely support casters in TvP. A player making many zealots will often support with other gateway units, against which EMP is a vital tool-- also, if you can catch clumps of zealots with EMP you will be well-rewarded. Some players will support a zealot-heavy army with some stalkers and colossi. Against a player with many colossi gas is often better spent on more vikings to kill the colossi than on ghosts, though of course you'll still want some to emp casters and the protoss shields.

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.

dynwar7 June 02 2012 18:30. Posts 1945

Thanks a lot blazing you are always helpful.

Well, I forgot to mention that the TvP is a late-game scenarion. I have seen/read some strats that tell you to transition into mass ghosts/vikings come late game. Mass ghosts is really really strong. Why are marauders so good with their DPS vs armored ? Because with 3/3 upgrades they do a massive 26. And that is exactly the damage Ghosts do to light units, a.k.a, zealots

Now regarding rally points.....Should I put my rax fact, port (production facilities) in the same group as my main army? That way whenever I move my army the rally point follows? All this time I have been using a separate hotkey for my production facilities, however I found that when my army keeps moving, and when I forgot to set the new rally point, the newly-produced units will end up at places AWAY from my main army..and that is annoying. How do I make sure that the newly produced units will always join my main army?

Or is it normal for Terrans to have a lil problem with rally points?

Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....

Blazinghand United States. June 02 2012 18:37. Posts 12151

On June 02 2012 18:30 dynwar7 wrote:
Now regarding rally points.....Should I put my rax fact, port (production facilities) in the same group as my main army? That way whenever I move my army the rally point follows? All this time I have been using a separate hotkey for my production facilities, however I found that when my army keeps moving, and when I forgot to set the new rally point, the newly-produced units will end up at places AWAY from my main army..and that is annoying. How do I make sure that the newly produced units will always join my main army?

Or is it normal for Terrans to have a lil problem with rally points?

The trick here is to set your rally point to a unit in your army. Grab all your prod facs and left click on a marine, a viking, whatever, and any units that come out will walk to your army. The only caveat is that if you're making medivacs, they'll try to pick the unit up, so try to rally to a viking if you have one, or rally your starport seperately (maybe to your medivacs).

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.

Broesl Austria. June 02 2012 18:59. Posts 70

On June 02 2012 18:37 Blazinghand wrote: