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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | Chaggi Korea (South). June 15 2012 13:09. Posts 1132 | Profile # |
On June 15 2012 12:42 Nolann wrote:
In TvT I like to go straight bio play. When I do i'm not sure how I should play against tanks. I have the problem knowing I cant charge into them but then I feel like im being slow pushed back into my demise. Any tips or pointers?
tanks are very inmobile, take advantage of that and drop around or move around |
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| deeshoo United States. June 15 2012 14:15. Posts 319 | Profile Blog # |
On June 15 2012 13:09 Chaggi wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 12:42 Nolann wrote:
In TvT I like to go straight bio play. When I do i'm not sure how I should play against tanks. I have the problem knowing I cant charge into them but then I feel like im being slow pushed back into my demise. Any tips or pointers?
tanks are very inmobile, take advantage of that and drop around or move around
also, spreading your forces out in a wide arc and setting up flanks is a great way too. the problem is when they have marine support to buffer, so still gotta be careful. |
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| Gyro_SC2 Canada. June 15 2012 14:36. Posts 529 | Profile # |
Hey I have a small question.
In tvz, do you think its always good to make some rax with tech lab around 15 minutes even if you don't see ultralisk.
Because you'll be ready for the ultralisk switch and marauder are good v infestor, and anyway you can still build marine if the ultralisk don't come ?Last edit: 2012-06-15 14:36:28 |
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| -FoX United States. June 15 2012 14:43. Posts 463 | Profile # |
On June 15 2012 14:36 Gyro_SC2 wrote:
Hey I have a small question.
In tvz, do you think its always good to make some rax with tech lab around 15 minutes even if you don't see ultralisk.
Because you'll be ready for the ultralisk switch and marauder are good v infestor, and anyway you can still build marine if the ultralisk don't come ?
This is a pretty interesting concept that I feel needs to be explored more. In some ways it can be defined as a "blind counter" but at the same time, it seems more just like preparation. It's like making a ghost academy in TvP before you see the HTs I guess. I'd say go for it, adding more barracks in the mid to late game will increase your production and as an added bonus you can be slightly more prepared for an ultralisk transition. One thing to note is simply making naked barracks works out as well. Instead of spending the 50 gas on reactors (depending on your build you might be facing gas shortages) you can just put up 150 for a new barracks and then also have the chance to add a tech lab on it later. Dunno, I'd like to hear more opinions on this. Good question. |
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| HeroMystic United States. June 15 2012 14:46. Posts 894 | Profile # |
On June 15 2012 14:43 -FoX wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 14:36 Gyro_SC2 wrote:
Hey I have a small question.
In tvz, do you think its always good to make some rax with tech lab around 15 minutes even if you don't see ultralisk.
Because you'll be ready for the ultralisk switch and marauder are good v infestor, and anyway you can still build marine if the ultralisk don't come ?
This is a pretty interesting concept that I feel needs to be explored more. In some ways it can be defined as a "blind counter" but at the same time, it seems more just like preparation. It's like making a ghost academy in TvP before you see the HTs I guess. I'd say go for it, adding more barracks in the mid to late game will increase your production and as an added bonus you can be slightly more prepared for an ultralisk transition. One thing to note is simply making naked barracks works out as well. Instead of spending the 50 gas on reactors (depending on your build you might be facing gas shortages) you can just put up 150 for a new barracks and then also have the chance to add a tech lab on it later. Dunno, I'd like to hear more opinions on this. Good question.
I'd say yes. You should at least have 3 Tech Lab Raxes to handle an Ultra tech swtich. You can still produce Marines just not as much. If you're producing 12-15 Marines at a time, I'd say that's good.
EDIT: Got a question before I head off to bed.
In TvT Marine/Tank vs Marine/Tank, should there ever be a time where you add Marauders into your composition?Last edit: 2012-06-15 14:48:37 |
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| SurroundSound June 15 2012 15:01. Posts 104 | Profile Blog # |
| Hey guys, Im switching to Terran from Zerg! I'm in diamond so this switch is going to be verrrrry unforgiving. That being said i have no idea where to start with build orders and what to do with my scouting information. Anyone got the heart to give me a rundown? |
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| iTzSnypah United States. June 15 2012 15:12. Posts 1251 | Profile Blog # |
How the hell do you respond to mass tank viking on the ridge on Cloud Kingdom? I tried drops,banshees and battle cruisers but I still lost quite convincingly.
drop.sc/198171 |
| | Team Liquid needs more Terrans. |
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| Blazinghand United States. June 15 2012 15:16. Posts 12822 | Profile Blog # |
On June 15 2012 15:01 SurroundSound wrote:
Hey guys, Im switching to Terran from Zerg! I'm in diamond so this switch is going to be verrrrry unforgiving. That being said i have no idea where to start with build orders and what to do with my scouting information. Anyone got the heart to give me a rundown?
TvP: 1 rax gasless fast expand, add on 2 more rax, take a double gas in your main, get stimpack and addons for your rax, then get a starport (and an engineering bay for upgrades), taking third gas, then third base. Against a 1 gate FE you're typically able to move out once you have your medivacs. A large bio core is important, supplement with ghosts and vikings to counter HTs and Colossi.
TvT: Fast Expand (1 rax reaper, 1 rax gasless are common) then get up to 3 rax, go for combat shields first, then stim, and quickly get medivacs and tanks. Secure many bases. If your opponent goes hellion/tank, you'll need to mix in marauders. A large bio core is important, supplement with tanks to deal with tanks. Vikings will be needed to fight enemy vikings and air-to-surface units.
TvZ: reactor hellion expand is considered standard here, but you'll see people open with 1 rax FEs and reaper FEs, which will be stronger on maps where hellions can't get all up in a zerg's business easily. A large bio core is important, and supplement with tanks to fight against banelings and infestors, vikings to fight broodlords, maruaders to fight ultralisks. |
| | When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back. |
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| -FoX United States. June 15 2012 15:50. Posts 463 | Profile # |
On June 15 2012 14:46 HeroMystic wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 14:43 -FoX wrote:
On June 15 2012 14:36 Gyro_SC2 wrote:
Hey I have a small question.
In tvz, do you think its always good to make some rax with tech lab around 15 minutes even if you don't see ultralisk.
Because you'll be ready for the ultralisk switch and marauder are good v infestor, and anyway you can still build marine if the ultralisk don't come ?
This is a pretty interesting concept that I feel needs to be explored more. In some ways it can be defined as a "blind counter" but at the same time, it seems more just like preparation. It's like making a ghost academy in TvP before you see the HTs I guess. I'd say go for it, adding more barracks in the mid to late game will increase your production and as an added bonus you can be slightly more prepared for an ultralisk transition. One thing to note is simply making naked barracks works out as well. Instead of spending the 50 gas on reactors (depending on your build you might be facing gas shortages) you can just put up 150 for a new barracks and then also have the chance to add a tech lab on it later. Dunno, I'd like to hear more opinions on this. Good question.
I'd say yes. You should at least have 3 Tech Lab Raxes to handle an Ultra tech swtich. You can still produce Marines just not as much. If you're producing 12-15 Marines at a time, I'd say that's good. EDIT: Got a question before I head off to bed. In TvT Marine/Tank vs Marine/Tank, should there ever be a time where you add Marauders into your composition?
To answer your question about TvT I'm gonna go with a no here. Doesn't make sense to add marauders as they have lower DPS and aren't really going to help your army in any way. Only time I see marauders being useful is really early on in the game or if you're facing a mech-ing player. It's nice to have that buffer against hellions, as I'm sure you know.
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| KingSizeRJ June 15 2012 16:44. Posts 60 | Profile # |
Hi, I'm new in starcraft and still finishing to play the campaign and got into it by a friend (that watches day[j] daily) who said that what I need to focus right now it is:
Keep my money low;
Never stop making workers;
Don't get supply blocked.
I'd would like to ask you guys for a 'universal' build order (I'll use the same build for every match-up for now), which the main point of the build would be being as safe as it gets against cheese, so I'll have the best chance of not losing to a 6 pool, 2 proxy rax, canon rush, etc (some tips on how to defend these all-ins would be welcome as well) . And after the attack, hopefuly, I can outmacro them and win. I was thinking something very standard like MMM+siege tanks, if possible with a transition to ravens, just because they are my favorite unit in the game.
I've reading so guides here, too, but the there is so much content here that I may be losing something very important, so if you could recommend some reading/watching I would be glab.
Sorry for my poor english and the noobish annoyance, thank you all.Last edit: 2012-06-15 16:50:09 |
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| Floff Germany. June 15 2012 17:15. Posts 5 | Profile # |
On June 15 2012 16:44 KingSizeRJ wrote:
Hi, I'm new in starcraft and still finishing to play the campaign and got into it by a friend (that watches day[j] daily) who said that what I need to focus right now it is:
Keep my money low;
Never stop making workers;
Don't get supply blocked.
I'd would like to ask you guys for a 'universal' build order (I'll use the same build for every match-up for now), which the main point of the build would be being as safe as it gets against cheese, so I'll have the best chance of not losing to a 6 pool, 2 proxy rax, canon rush, etc (some tips on how to defend these all-ins would be welcome as well) . And after the attack, hopefuly, I can outmacro them and win. I was thinking something very standard like MMM+siege tanks, if possible with a transition to ravens, just because they are my favorite unit in the game.
I've reading so guides here, too, but the there is so much content here that I may be losing something very important, so if you could recommend some reading/watching I would be glab.
Sorry for my poor english and the noobish annoyance, thank you all.
Hi there,
If I play vs. Random, i usually go 1rax into FE, walling off your choke vs. any kind of early pool & cannon rush (If he has no upground vision, he cant shoot, right?).
After that, if you truly want a universal build, I'd say going pure MMM is viable for all matchups. It might get difficult for beginners vs. ling/bling or infestors due to intense micro needs.
I would recommend just going 1rax FE and then learning 1 2base-build for each matchup.
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 dynwar7 June 15 2012 17:33. Posts 1955 | Profile # |
Does anybody have a new,fresh, working strategy in TvT? I used to like mech..... but thanks to their immobility I dont really use them, though I still love them.
So, My plan now is to go just Bio, and try to be aggressive as much as I can, drops everywhere, etc. and if it gets to mid-late game, I will transition to BC vikings.
Problems are:
1. He has a few turrets outside his perimeter, I cannot drop....and this is not even late game, where he normally has tons of minerals to spend on turrets. What do I do if bio cannot drop vs mech? Everyone says to drop vs mech and abuse mobility, but what if they have a good number of turrets?
2. I used MMM but was beaten by mass marine/some tanks/medivacs. Perhaps it was just my macro, but what do you suggest vs marrine tank?
3. Well, this is the whole question of this post  Any new strategy for TvT that is fresh, new and works decently? |
| | Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves.... |
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| Belial88 United States. June 15 2012 17:50. Posts 5217 | Profile Blog # |
so is mech still considered superior to bio in tvt? what's up with that.
and in zvt, do you guys think 20+ mutas is hard? i still do it (71% win rate vs terran this season and last combined, 95% on daybreak lol) but i see less and less zergs do it and just... i dont know.
and what do you find hard that zerg does in general. do many terrans consider zerg OP (not trying to get to balance, just wondering if 'many terrans' feel that way, and why.... so i can exploit my opness on ladder and be really abusive haha).
i mean for the most part, I play the same in zvt as I did like a year ago. Last edit: 2012-06-15 17:50:41 |
| | How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100 |
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| zezamer Finland. June 15 2012 17:54. Posts 1805 | Profile # |
| 4-6 queens, early third, mass lings with double ups, some infestors, fast hive, ultras or brood lords Last edit: 2012-06-15 17:55:29 |
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| KingSizeRJ June 15 2012 17:57. Posts 60 | Profile # |
On June 15 2012 17:15 Floff wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 16:44 KingSizeRJ wrote:
Hi, I'm new in starcraft and still finishing to play the campaign and got into it by a friend (that watches day[j] daily) who said that what I need to focus right now it is:
Keep my money low;
Never stop making workers;
Don't get supply blocked.
I'd would like to ask you guys for a 'universal' build order (I'll use the same build for every match-up for now), which the main point of the build would be being as safe as it gets against cheese, so I'll have the best chance of not losing to a 6 pool, 2 proxy rax, canon rush, etc (some tips on how to defend these all-ins would be welcome as well) . And after the attack, hopefuly, I can outmacro them and win. I was thinking something very standard like MMM+siege tanks, if possible with a transition to ravens, just because they are my favorite unit in the game.
I've reading so guides here, too, but the there is so much content here that I may be losing something very important, so if you could recommend some reading/watching I would be glab.
Sorry for my poor english and the noobish annoyance, thank you all.
Hi there, If I play vs. Random, i usually go 1rax into FE, walling off your choke vs. any kind of early pool & cannon rush (If he has no upground vision, he cant shoot, right?). After that, if you truly want a universal build, I'd say going pure MMM is viable for all matchups. It might get difficult for beginners vs. ling/bling or infestors due to intense micro needs. I would recommend just going 1rax FE and then learning 1 2base-build for each matchup.
Thank you, I'll make sure to test it out. |
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| gronnelg Norway. June 15 2012 18:02. Posts 306 | Profile # |
On June 15 2012 17:50 Belial88 wrote:
so is mech still considered superior to bio in tvt? what's up with that.
and in zvt, do you guys think 20+ mutas is hard? i still do it (71% win rate vs terran this season and last combined, 95% on daybreak lol) but i see less and less zergs do it and just... i dont know.
and what do you find hard that zerg does in general. do many terrans consider zerg OP (not trying to get to balance, just wondering if 'many terrans' feel that way, and why.... so i can exploit my opness on ladder and be really abusive haha).
i mean for the most part, I play the same in zvt as I did like a year ago.
Im a muta player myself. I really enjoy it. I get infestation pit when I get approx 20 muta, and then start transiotioning, while still harassing. I really like dynamic games; games that have stages (the extreme opposite would be camping til deathball, then move out and end the game), were on stage gives you the space you need to get into the next one. Way more fun to play. So I'll stick to mutas :D
As for wether it's optimal in a game winning sense, to get mutas or just skip them, I'm really not qualified to answer. |
| | Lulzez || My stream: http://www.twitch.tv/gronnelg |
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| Blazinghand United States. June 15 2012 18:06. Posts 12822 | Profile Blog # |
On June 15 2012 17:50 Belial88 wrote:
so is mech still considered superior to bio in tvt? what's up with that.
Not since the blue flame nerf. By encorporating marauders into a standard marine/tank mixture, a bio player will be able to stand up to a mech army. From what I can tell from GSL terrans, there are some maps where Mech is stronger, due to restricted army movements, and some maps where Bio is stronger, where it's wider and a mobile force of marauders can engage the more tank-heavy mech army more easily, and of course some maps where either is viable.
On June 15 2012 17:50 Belial88 wrote:
and in zvt, do you guys think 20+ mutas is hard? i still do it (71% win rate vs terran this season and last combined, 95% on daybreak lol) but i see less and less zergs do it and just... i dont know.
Mass mutalisk is still viable, but it's totally possible for the zerg to screw up and lose-- mutalisks aren't easy to control. Most zergs I play are aiming for an infestor/BL army with some queens and assorted ground units, and spending more time on lair tech doesn't appeal to them, so they make infestors.
On June 15 2012 17:50 Belial88 wrote:
and what do you find hard that zerg does in general. do many terrans consider zerg OP (not trying to get to balance, just wondering if 'many terrans' feel that way, and why.... so i can exploit my opness on ladder and be really abusive haha).
I think what the thing that zerg does in general that I find the hardest would be underdroning and then losing to a 3 tank push-- I think if you did that whenever you saw me on the ladder, that would be the best outcome 
Seriously though, zerg players who play with infestors and give up the economic edge of a quicker 4th base in return for safety and tech give me some trouble, because I have difficulty controlling the lategame terran army against zerg since the snipe nerf, and this basically forces a Hive tech fight. |
| | When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back. |
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| Bwall Sweden. June 15 2012 18:36. Posts 109 | Profile # |
On June 15 2012 15:16 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 15:01 SurroundSound wrote:
Hey guys, Im switching to Terran from Zerg! I'm in diamond so this switch is going to be verrrrry unforgiving. That being said i have no idea where to start with build orders and what to do with my scouting information. Anyone got the heart to give me a rundown?
TvP: 1 rax gasless fast expand, add on 2 more rax, take a double gas in your main, get stimpack and addons for your rax, then get a starport (and an engineering bay for upgrades), taking third gas, then third base. Against a 1 gate FE you're typically able to move out once you have your medivacs. A large bio core is important, supplement with ghosts and vikings to counter HTs and Colossi. TvT: Fast Expand (1 rax reaper, 1 rax gasless are common) then get up to 3 rax, go for combat shields first, then stim, and quickly get medivacs and tanks. Secure many bases. If your opponent goes hellion/tank, you'll need to mix in marauders. A large bio core is important, supplement with tanks to deal with tanks. Vikings will be needed to fight enemy vikings and air-to-surface units. TvZ: reactor hellion expand is considered standard here, but you'll see people open with 1 rax FEs and reaper FEs, which will be stronger on maps where hellions can't get all up in a zerg's business easily. A large bio core is important, and supplement with tanks to fight against banelings and infestors, vikings to fight broodlords, maruaders to fight ultralisks.
Reaper FE vs zerg after the queen buff? It's definitely not common, and I don't really see what advantages it has over a 1 rax FE. It's not like vs T where you can expect to kill a few scvs. |
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| Blazinghand United States. June 15 2012 18:39. Posts 12822 | Profile Blog # |
On June 15 2012 18:36 Bwall wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 15:16 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 15 2012 15:01 SurroundSound wrote:
Hey guys, Im switching to Terran from Zerg! I'm in diamond so this switch is going to be verrrrry unforgiving. That being said i have no idea where to start with build orders and what to do with my scouting information. Anyone got the heart to give me a rundown?
TvP: 1 rax gasless fast expand, add on 2 more rax, take a double gas in your main, get stimpack and addons for your rax, then get a starport (and an engineering bay for upgrades), taking third gas, then third base. Against a 1 gate FE you're typically able to move out once you have your medivacs. A large bio core is important, supplement with ghosts and vikings to counter HTs and Colossi. TvT: Fast Expand (1 rax reaper, 1 rax gasless are common) then get up to 3 rax, go for combat shields first, then stim, and quickly get medivacs and tanks. Secure many bases. If your opponent goes hellion/tank, you'll need to mix in marauders. A large bio core is important, supplement with tanks to deal with tanks. Vikings will be needed to fight enemy vikings and air-to-surface units. TvZ: reactor hellion expand is considered standard here, but you'll see people open with 1 rax FEs and reaper FEs, which will be stronger on maps where hellions can't get all up in a zerg's business easily. A large bio core is important, and supplement with tanks to fight against banelings and infestors, vikings to fight broodlords, maruaders to fight ultralisks.
Reaper FE vs zerg after the queen buff? It's definitely not common, and I don't really see what advantages it has over a 1 rax FE. It's not like vs T where you can expect to kill a few scvs.
It still gives you scouting info and map control until zergling speed is done. It also is a fast expansion. Reaper FE is technically viable in every matchup. It's not like a zerg player with range 3 queens was gonna lose any drones to a single reaper anyways, the 5 range just means that players with bad control won't lose drones either. If you're relying on drone kills to make a reaper FE work you're probably doing it wrong.
EDIT: or you're bunker rushing. Bunker rushing was a thing and isn't as much any more due to the queen buff, so that's actually a point.Last edit: 2012-06-15 18:39:46 |
| | When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back. |
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| Ktk Korea (South). June 15 2012 20:17. Posts 708 | Profile Blog # |
On June 15 2012 17:33 dynwar7 wrote:Does anybody have a new,fresh, working strategy in TvT? I used to like mech..... but thanks to their immobility I dont really use them, though I still love them. So, My plan now is to go just Bio, and try to be aggressive as much as I can, drops everywhere, etc. and if it gets to mid-late game, I will transition to BC vikings. Problems are: 1. He has a few turrets outside his perimeter, I cannot drop....and this is not even late game, where he normally has tons of minerals to spend on turrets. What do I do if bio cannot drop vs mech? Everyone says to drop vs mech and abuse mobility, but what if they have a good number of turrets? 2. I used MMM but was beaten by mass marine/some tanks/medivacs. Perhaps it was just my macro, but what do you suggest vs marrine tank? 3. Well, this is the whole question of this post Any new strategy for TvT that is fresh, new and works decently?
I once watched a TvT where Bomber gave no shits about turrets - he got a raven (gasp! try this after a banshee expand, maybe? raven expands are very good defensive openings imo too... esp if you can guarantee the opponent goes banshees) and PDD'd the turret line and dropped 16 marines for massive damage. Some food for thought
Marine tank is, on paper, good against bio in general since instead of tanks you have marauders, and by itself, marines beat marines/marauders.
What I've been doing TvT is either a banshee[or]raven expand or 1rax FE into 3rax port (basically exactly like the TvP build, stim first 2medivac timing without a flying factory) into bio or marine tank - whatever I feel is appropriate for what I see. Not sure if it's new or fresh, we don't see TvTs that often these days |
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