 flamewheel HANG KANG. March 15 2012 21:29. Posts 21503 | Profile Blog # |
| Open Wounds and Rage won't help you heal as much either. The amount you heal from each camp is predetermined by the creep's HP. Having higher levels of Feast means you can keep yourself at a higher overall health pool (Naix is easily gankable) while also retaining more mana that you can utilize for escaping/ganking. |
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 TheYango United States. March 15 2012 21:32. Posts 15762 | Profile # |
If all the choke spots worked correctly, I'd get enough Feast to stay full health on each camp, and then max Rage. The extra healing doesn't go that far if you're staying full HP from smart chokepoint jungling.
With some of the chokes working and some not working, it's probably better just to max Feast and just not worry about it.
That said, I don't really like Na'ix in the jungle. Much rather have him farming a lane.Last edit: 2012-03-15 21:33:42 |
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| ArcticVanguard United States. March 15 2012 22:33. Posts 413 | Profile Blog # |
On March 15 2012 20:45 konadora wrote:
what if you want to play jungle naix while occasionally helping out with ganks? i felt the reduced slow reduction amount for each lvl put into open wounds helps out quite a lot in ganks
The slow from Open Wounds actually does not scale. One level gives you the full slow, which is why most guides recommend maxing it last. When I'm going jungle Naix, I prefer maxing Feast first and getting a level in Rage at 2 and OW at 4. That generally works well enough for ganking, mostly because you won't have enough health to gank at level 2. For laning Naix, IIRC you get one level of Feast at 2, one level of OW at 1 or 4, depending on whether or not you want to go for first blood. Otherwise than that, max Ult -> Rage -> Feast -> OW. |
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| Corr Denmark. March 15 2012 22:52. Posts 529 | Profile # |
| The 12 sec cd on OW will be able to get you kills you otherwise wouldn't get, depending on the level you play at. Getting more than one point in Feast is fine but there's really no reason to completely max it before you max OW imo. Last edit: 2012-03-15 22:55:05 |
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| Yoshi- Germany. March 15 2012 23:17. Posts 4067 | Profile # |
For jungle naix
1 lvl feast + 1 lvl open wounds
then max rage first |
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| NB Canada. March 15 2012 23:32. Posts 6997 | Profile Blog # |
i dont agree with people say max rage first. im currently 26-13 with naix(67% wr) and i have always maxing feast first. The problem with maxing rage is that the mana pool of naix isnt that great once you start ganking lane at lv 2 therefore spamming rage for the extra dps while jungling is impossible. Mean while feast give you a certain amount of bonus dps for faster jungling and HP for longer jungling. Even with perfect choke, you still need a tango to clear out some certain neutral creeps not counting camps that has range DPS units such as trolls which make stacking then choke almost impossible at feast lv1.
Skill of jungle naix go like this: feast wound(gank time) feast(rage) rage(feast) then max feast>rage>wound with ulti taking normal.
With the fact that wound cost 100+ mana, you simply will run out of mana after a simple gank with wound + rage(dodge stun). Your mana regen sucks and your items are mostly str dps related. This is also a reason why i often have to consider dagger as an luxury item on naix.
About jungle/lane: as pub wise, jungle is much safer and provide your team a 2nd lv 6 heroes mid game to gank around and kill shit. I recommend you pick naix and announce that you will jungling early so your team know to adapt with their pick. Only going lane if you have a good team with dedicated support in lane that wont take your farm and constantly pressure the enemy. We have seen several time with a dual mid naix(vs or CM) in competitive play or trilane. You cant do it in pub bc most of the time your team just gona steal your farm and let you with your melee range QQ while hugging tower.
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| HypernovA Canada. March 15 2012 23:48. Posts 446 | Profile # |
| That picture. So much win. |
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| TheYango United States. March 15 2012 23:48. Posts 15762 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 23:32 NB wrote:
About jungle/lane: as pub wise, jungle is much safer and provide your team a 2nd lv 6 heroes mid game to gank around and kill shit. I recommend you pick naix and announce that you will jungling early so your team know to adapt with their pick. Only going lane if you have a good team with dedicated support in lane that wont take your farm and constantly pressure the enemy. We have seen several time with a dual mid naix(vs or CM) in competitive play or trilane. You cant do it in pub bc most of the time your team just gona steal your farm and let you with your melee range QQ while hugging tower.
If the enemy team is playing the 2v1 correctly, your 1v2 isn't going to hit 6 easily and be in a position to "gank around and kill shit". If he's on level with their duo lanes, he's already doing well, and if the enemy's pull isn't blocked with a ward, it's possible for him to stay level 1 for a VERY long time.
And that's assuming your pub teammates don't just feed in the 1v2 (which happens often enough).Last edit: 2012-03-15 23:49:24 |
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| NB Canada. March 15 2012 23:58. Posts 6997 | Profile Blog # |
On March 15 2012 23:48 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 23:32 NB wrote:
About jungle/lane: as pub wise, jungle is much safer and provide your team a 2nd lv 6 heroes mid game to gank around and kill shit. I recommend you pick naix and announce that you will jungling early so your team know to adapt with their pick. Only going lane if you have a good team with dedicated support in lane that wont take your farm and constantly pressure the enemy. We have seen several time with a dual mid naix(vs or CM) in competitive play or trilane. You cant do it in pub bc most of the time your team just gona steal your farm and let you with your melee range QQ while hugging tower.
If the enemy team is playing the 2v1 correctly, your 1v2 isn't going to hit 6 easily and be in a position to "gank around and kill shit". If he's on level with their duo lanes, he's already doing well, and if the enemy's pull isn't blocked with a ward, it's possible for him to stay level 1 for a VERY long time. And that's assuming your pub teammates don't just feed in the 1v2 (which happens often enough).
agree... but most of the time they either dont pull, or the 1v2 do know how to buy ward to block it. As long as your team just dont straight out feed and keep a nice kill/death ratio and ENEMY TEAM DONT HAVE FED CARRY you are mostly fine with a 6-7 min midas(6 if got fb, 7 if got an assit, ~8:40 if nothing happen and bad creep spawn). Anyhow if your team is anywhere between negative 5 kills to 8 kills with minimum towers lost, the game is still in the comeback zone, beyond that is afk fountain and let enemy team push.
Btw: mirana is the best solo long laner yeah? :D
edit: quick question: Do i need to turn auto attack off to perform tree->teleport escape successfully as furion? I often tried to tree myself to block enemy vision and teleport away but often in time the 1 second between 2 spells cast often has an auto attack to reveal my vision inside the tree. Anyone has tip/trick regard this? :OLast edit: 2012-03-16 00:22:11 |
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| Numy South Africa. March 16 2012 00:30. Posts 7390 | Profile Blog # |
On March 15 2012 23:32 NB wrote:
i dont agree with people say max rage first. im currently 26-13 with naix(67% wr) and i have always maxing feast first. The problem with maxing rage is that the mana pool of naix isnt that great once you start ganking lane at lv 2 therefore spamming rage for the extra dps while jungling is impossible. Mean while feast give you a certain amount of bonus dps for faster jungling and HP for longer jungling. Even with perfect choke, you still need a tango to clear out some certain neutral creeps not counting camps that has range DPS units such as trolls which make stacking then choke almost impossible at feast lv1.
Skill of jungle naix go like this: feast wound(gank time) feast(rage) rage(feast) then max feast>rage>wound with ulti taking normal.
With the fact that wound cost 100+ mana, you simply will run out of mana after a simple gank with wound + rage(dodge stun). Your mana regen sucks and your items are mostly str dps related. This is also a reason why i often have to consider dagger as an luxury item on naix.
About jungle/lane: as pub wise, jungle is much safer and provide your team a 2nd lv 6 heroes mid game to gank around and kill shit. I recommend you pick naix and announce that you will jungling early so your team know to adapt with their pick. Only going lane if you have a good team with dedicated support in lane that wont take your farm and constantly pressure the enemy. We have seen several time with a dual mid naix(vs or CM) in competitive play or trilane. You cant do it in pub bc most of the time your team just gona steal your farm and let you with your melee range QQ while hugging tower.
The problem with feast first over rage means you can't really do anything in the game until later. Level one of rage really isn't enough to get damage done and won't let you rage+tp to get out of situations. All feast will do is make you a bit higher hp when jungling. I guess that's fine if you want to sit in jungle half the game. I just don't like passive junglers  Last edit: 2012-03-16 00:31:18 |
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| PassiveAce United States. March 16 2012 00:44. Posts 4364 | Profile Blog # |
| Is anyone else having difficulty creating custom games on the test server to check out SD or is it just me? |
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| NB Canada. March 16 2012 00:52. Posts 6997 | Profile Blog # |
On March 16 2012 00:30 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 23:32 NB wrote:
i dont agree with people say max rage first. im currently 26-13 with naix(67% wr) and i have always maxing feast first. The problem with maxing rage is that the mana pool of naix isnt that great once you start ganking lane at lv 2 therefore spamming rage for the extra dps while jungling is impossible. Mean while feast give you a certain amount of bonus dps for faster jungling and HP for longer jungling. Even with perfect choke, you still need a tango to clear out some certain neutral creeps not counting camps that has range DPS units such as trolls which make stacking then choke almost impossible at feast lv1.
Skill of jungle naix go like this: feast wound(gank time) feast(rage) rage(feast) then max feast>rage>wound with ulti taking normal.
With the fact that wound cost 100+ mana, you simply will run out of mana after a simple gank with wound + rage(dodge stun). Your mana regen sucks and your items are mostly str dps related. This is also a reason why i often have to consider dagger as an luxury item on naix.
About jungle/lane: as pub wise, jungle is much safer and provide your team a 2nd lv 6 heroes mid game to gank around and kill shit. I recommend you pick naix and announce that you will jungling early so your team know to adapt with their pick. Only going lane if you have a good team with dedicated support in lane that wont take your farm and constantly pressure the enemy. We have seen several time with a dual mid naix(vs or CM) in competitive play or trilane. You cant do it in pub bc most of the time your team just gona steal your farm and let you with your melee range QQ while hugging tower.
The problem with feast first over rage means you can't really do anything in the game until later. Level one of rage really isn't enough to get damage done and won't let you rage+tp to get out of situations. All feast will do is make you a bit higher hp when jungling. I guess that's fine if you want to sit in jungle half the game. I just don't like passive junglers
that is a misconception i think. Feast give you a lot of extra dmg(physical based on enemy HP%) as well and early on i dont think rage is 'spamable' without going back to fountain once or twice unless you never want to cast wound.
what happen is that when you gank (around lv 2 or 3), its not your DPS that matter but the chain disable/slow that your team has. It doesnt matter if you have a lv 2 rage or lv2 feast to gank but it matter if your team has a VS stun or a frost bite to follow up with your wound. If the combo went off, 99% of the time the kill is guarantee no matter if naix has the bonus hit from lv 2 rage or not. This is not even counting the fact that early on without any item naix AS is almost insignificant to get bonuses from rage.
It is true however that rage->teleport is needed time to time but again, if you are jungling you should not have any problem with ganking with good warding and such. At max you could skip level 4 feast to get lv2 rage if your team is under heavy pressure but often in time i just get lv 4 and switch to long lane to farm ancient camp instead.
Passive or not, in the end naix is still one of the semi-carry that is very item dependent and close to 'hard carry status'. Good farming on naix should always be your #1 priority as well as your team's while ganking/teamfight is optional with a turtle/counterpush play style. |
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| Copymizer Denmark. March 16 2012 00:53. Posts 1395 | Profile # |
On March 16 2012 00:44 PassiveAce wrote:
Is anyone else having difficulty creating custom games on the test server to check out SD or is it just me?
had the same prob yesterday here in EU |
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| Altsa Finland. March 16 2012 00:58. Posts 580 | Profile Blog # |
| The "problem" is that it´s just hard to find a server. It took 20 minutes for me today. Just wait. |
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| Numy South Africa. March 16 2012 01:04. Posts 7390 | Profile Blog # |
On March 16 2012 00:52 NB wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 00:30 Numy wrote:
On March 15 2012 23:32 NB wrote:
i dont agree with people say max rage first. im currently 26-13 with naix(67% wr) and i have always maxing feast first. The problem with maxing rage is that the mana pool of naix isnt that great once you start ganking lane at lv 2 therefore spamming rage for the extra dps while jungling is impossible. Mean while feast give you a certain amount of bonus dps for faster jungling and HP for longer jungling. Even with perfect choke, you still need a tango to clear out some certain neutral creeps not counting camps that has range DPS units such as trolls which make stacking then choke almost impossible at feast lv1.
Skill of jungle naix go like this: feast wound(gank time) feast(rage) rage(feast) then max feast>rage>wound with ulti taking normal.
With the fact that wound cost 100+ mana, you simply will run out of mana after a simple gank with wound + rage(dodge stun). Your mana regen sucks and your items are mostly str dps related. This is also a reason why i often have to consider dagger as an luxury item on naix.
About jungle/lane: as pub wise, jungle is much safer and provide your team a 2nd lv 6 heroes mid game to gank around and kill shit. I recommend you pick naix and announce that you will jungling early so your team know to adapt with their pick. Only going lane if you have a good team with dedicated support in lane that wont take your farm and constantly pressure the enemy. We have seen several time with a dual mid naix(vs or CM) in competitive play or trilane. You cant do it in pub bc most of the time your team just gona steal your farm and let you with your melee range QQ while hugging tower.
The problem with feast first over rage means you can't really do anything in the game until later. Level one of rage really isn't enough to get damage done and won't let you rage+tp to get out of situations. All feast will do is make you a bit higher hp when jungling. I guess that's fine if you want to sit in jungle half the game. I just don't like passive junglers
that is a misconception i think. Feast give you a lot of extra dmg(physical based on enemy HP%) as well and early on i dont think rage is 'spamable' without going back to fountain once or twice unless you never want to cast wound. what happen is that when you gank (around lv 2 or 3), its not your DPS that matter but the chain disable/slow that your team has. It doesnt matter if you have a lv 2 rage or lv2 feast to gank but it matter if your team has a VS stun or a frost bite to follow up with your wound. If the combo went off, 99% of the time the kill is guarantee no matter if naix has the bonus hit from lv 2 rage or not. This is not even counting the fact that early on without any item naix AS is almost insignificant to get bonuses from rage. It is true however that rage->teleport is needed time to time but again, if you are jungling you should not have any problem with ganking with good warding and such. At max you could skip level 4 feast to get lv2 rage if your team is under heavy pressure but often in time i just get lv 4 and switch to long lane to farm ancient camp instead. Passive or not, in the end naix is still one of the semi-carry that is very item dependent and close to 'hard carry status'. Good farming on naix should always be your #1 priority as well as your team's while ganking/teamfight is optional with a turtle/counterpush play style.
You misunderstand my point about passive junglers. I mean I prefer naix in lane with a support and having an aggressive jungler than a naix jungling. I just think he's bad in jungle and without rage well you can't really fight. You might be able to "gank" if you have the superior numbers but otherwise you reduced to farming slower than say another hard carry in lane and still making team 4v5. Don't really see appeal in that.
You are thinking of rage in terms of the attack speed which isn't really the key part. The biggest thing about rage is the magic immunity. A melee carry with no mobility and no magic immunity is going to have a very hard time actually damaging people. Last edit: 2012-03-16 01:05:09 |
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| Shai Canada. March 16 2012 01:04. Posts 553 | Profile Blog # |
On March 16 2012 00:53 Copymizer wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 00:44 PassiveAce wrote:
Is anyone else having difficulty creating custom games on the test server to check out SD or is it just me?
had the same prob yesterday here in EU
Part of the patch notes includes that private solo games are now last in priority, meaning anyone making a game with other players or through the queue will get a server before you. You may never get a server doing solo custom games on the test server, considering how few servers are allotted to the Test. |
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| Corr Denmark. March 16 2012 01:09. Posts 529 | Profile # |
On March 16 2012 00:52 NB wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 00:30 Numy wrote:
On March 15 2012 23:32 NB wrote:
i dont agree with people say max rage first. im currently 26-13 with naix(67% wr) and i have always maxing feast first. The problem with maxing rage is that the mana pool of naix isnt that great once you start ganking lane at lv 2 therefore spamming rage for the extra dps while jungling is impossible. Mean while feast give you a certain amount of bonus dps for faster jungling and HP for longer jungling. Even with perfect choke, you still need a tango to clear out some certain neutral creeps not counting camps that has range DPS units such as trolls which make stacking then choke almost impossible at feast lv1.
Skill of jungle naix go like this: feast wound(gank time) feast(rage) rage(feast) then max feast>rage>wound with ulti taking normal.
With the fact that wound cost 100+ mana, you simply will run out of mana after a simple gank with wound + rage(dodge stun). Your mana regen sucks and your items are mostly str dps related. This is also a reason why i often have to consider dagger as an luxury item on naix.
About jungle/lane: as pub wise, jungle is much safer and provide your team a 2nd lv 6 heroes mid game to gank around and kill shit. I recommend you pick naix and announce that you will jungling early so your team know to adapt with their pick. Only going lane if you have a good team with dedicated support in lane that wont take your farm and constantly pressure the enemy. We have seen several time with a dual mid naix(vs or CM) in competitive play or trilane. You cant do it in pub bc most of the time your team just gona steal your farm and let you with your melee range QQ while hugging tower.
The problem with feast first over rage means you can't really do anything in the game until later. Level one of rage really isn't enough to get damage done and won't let you rage+tp to get out of situations. All feast will do is make you a bit higher hp when jungling. I guess that's fine if you want to sit in jungle half the game. I just don't like passive junglers
that is a misconception i think. Feast give you a lot of extra dmg(physical based on enemy HP%) as well and early on i dont think rage is 'spamable' without going back to fountain once or twice unless you never want to cast wound. what happen is that when you gank (around lv 2 or 3), its not your DPS that matter but the chain disable/slow that your team has. It doesnt matter if you have a lv 2 rage or lv2 feast to gank but it matter if your team has a VS stun or a frost bite to follow up with your wound. If the combo went off, 99% of the time the kill is guarantee no matter if naix has the bonus hit from lv 2 rage or not. This is not even counting the fact that early on without any item naix AS is almost insignificant to get bonuses from rage. It is true however that rage->teleport is needed time to time but again, if you are jungling you should not have any problem with ganking with good warding and such. At max you could skip level 4 feast to get lv2 rage if your team is under heavy pressure but often in time i just get lv 4 and switch to long lane to farm ancient camp instead. Passive or not, in the end naix is still one of the semi-carry that is very item dependent and close to 'hard carry status'. Good farming on naix should always be your #1 priority as well as your team's while ganking/teamfight is optional with a turtle/counterpush play style.
As we all know, you always have the ideal lane partner and a disable advantage in that situation in pubs.
On top of that, going midas and remaining fairly irrelevant for the whole duration of the laning phase is a good way to lose pubs if you're playing at a level where people have somewhat of a clue.
Again this may have to do with me never having played NA pubs. |
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| TheYango United States. March 16 2012 01:33. Posts 15762 | Profile # |
On March 15 2012 23:58 NB wrote:
agree... but most of the time they either dont pull, or the 1v2 do know how to buy ward to block it. As long as your team just dont straight out feed and keep a nice kill/death ratio and ENEMY TEAM DONT HAVE FED CARRY you are mostly fine with a 6-7 min midas(6 if got fb, 7 if got an assit, ~8:40 if nothing happen and bad creep spawn). Anyhow if your team is anywhere between negative 5 kills to 8 kills with minimum towers lost, the game is still in the comeback zone, beyond that is afk fountain and let enemy team push.
I think it's sort of unfair to assume that your support is going to suck and steal your CS if you lane, but at the same time assume that if you jungle, your solo hard laner is competent enough not get shut out of the game or feed.
Obviously if you have incompetent teammates, your life will be difficult. That's true regardless of whether you're laning or jungling. But in terms of a situation where you assume that regardless of laning or jungling, your teammates are equally shitty, you're probably best off in lane IMO.
The exception to this is when your team picked too many heroes that need levels/farm in lane. Then it might be better for you to jungle.
On March 15 2012 23:58 NB wrote:
edit: quick question: Do i need to turn auto attack off to perform tree->teleport escape successfully as furion? I often tried to tree myself to block enemy vision and teleport away but often in time the 1 second between 2 spells cast often has an auto attack to reveal my vision inside the tree. Anyone has tip/trick regard this? :O
Shouldn't you be able to shift-queue them?Last edit: 2012-03-16 01:45:27 |
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| Corr Denmark. March 16 2012 01:36. Posts 529 | Profile # |
| Something far more interesting to discuss about N'aix than builds/strategy that are based on the game flow being specific is when to get armlet and when to skip it and in which order you should farm the jungle. I think ideally you want to have a stacked high-level camp as you hit lvl 6 so you clear it fast and heal up with infest. And you wanna skip the smallest camp as the nature of Feast means killing bigger creeps isn't much slower than killing the small ones. Last edit: 2012-03-16 01:37:52 |
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| Numy South Africa. March 16 2012 01:56. Posts 7390 | Profile Blog # | |
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