| Chewits United Kingdom. May 23 2012 22:09. Posts 810 | Profile # |
A very good blog by NS, explaining why he thinks Roshan right now is imbalanced, and how certain changes could help to balance the game and why he thinks Aegis should be removed from the game.
http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/features/2902 |
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| eqez Sweden. May 23 2012 22:43. Posts 508 | Profile # |
On May 23 2012 22:09 Chewits wrote:A very good blog by NS, explaining why he thinks Roshan right now is imbalanced, and how certain changes could help to balance the game and why he thinks Aegis should be removed from the game. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/features/2902
Really valid points that Dire can access the roshpit really easy especially with TPs from nearby towers. But the radiant are miles away plus only 1 way to go there unless you have pushed down some towers. But a rework on the whole rosh pit would be really hard to workout. |
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| Comeh United States. May 23 2012 23:44. Posts 3805 | Profile Blog # |
On May 23 2012 22:09 Chewits wrote:A very good blog by NS, explaining why he thinks Roshan right now is imbalanced, and how certain changes could help to balance the game and why he thinks Aegis should be removed from the game. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/features/2902
I always (when a noob) found it interesting how much we never made a point about the positioning of roshan...
I wonder how they could fix that and place him in a spot that is more balanced? |
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| Qbek Poland. May 23 2012 23:50. Posts 4266 | Profile # |
On May 23 2012 23:44 Comeh wrote:I always (when a noob) found it interesting how much we never made a point about the positioning of roshan... I wonder how they could fix that and place him in a spot that is more balanced?
I can't be balanced without major jungles remake and would still be bad unless we just put him in the middle of the map. The map has never been more balanced as far as I know, terrain wise. |
| | I dojed huehue // Play for fun or try the harderest with vengeance | |
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| Dattish Sweden. May 23 2012 23:55. Posts 2738 | Profile # |
| I think they just have to make it harder for dire to get in undetected. Play around with highground and shit should be enough. |
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| The Great Taste May 23 2012 23:59. Posts 190 | Profile # |
On May 23 2012 23:55 Dattish wrote:
I think they just have to make it harder for dire to get in undetected. Play around with highground and shit should be enough.
The problem isn't just getting in undetected. With the right lineup you can go in and kill Rosh in 10 seconds when your heroes hit around level 11. Also, there was the farming of the Ancients while waiting that NS noted.
You can also push out all the lanes so Radiant have to go back and defend, then go for Roshan and they won't have time to get there. There was a game with Na'Vi where Lightofheaven just pushed out the lanes with Prophet while the other 9 players waited at Rosh. As soon as 1 tped back on the other team, Na'Vi went to Rosh uncontested because the other team couldn't fight 4v5. While there was a prophet here, if there was just a massive wave without a hero it may have been enough to force a tp as well. |
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| Qbek Poland. May 24 2012 00:00. Posts 4266 | Profile # |
On May 23 2012 23:55 Dattish wrote:
I think they just have to make it harder for dire to get in undetected. Play around with highground and shit should be enough.
The problem is that there will be always one team that has a tower closer, which is problematic even with equal detection possibilities. |
| | I dojed huehue // Play for fun or try the harderest with vengeance | |
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| MrCon France. May 24 2012 00:07. Posts 20356 | Profile # |
| I think Roshan should be harder. Roshan was designed before medaillon, an item that makes him very easy to kill. I like his suggestions of making him immune to armor reduction, stuns, and make him dispel everything that isn't a hero like he does to illusions. Also he should have way more than 3 armor. Basically you should commit to Roshan, and not just kill him because you were passing in the neighborhood. |
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| Comeh United States. May 24 2012 01:02. Posts 3805 | Profile Blog # |
On May 24 2012 00:07 MrCon wrote:
I think Roshan should be harder. Roshan was designed before medaillon, an item that makes him very easy to kill. I like his suggestions of making him immune to armor reduction, stuns, and make him dispel everything that isn't a hero like he does to illusions. Also he should have way more than 3 armor. Basically you should commit to Roshan, and not just kill him because you were passing in the neighborhood.
This still doesn't necessarily address the map position imbalance he has - which to me is a pretty huge deal. I dont expect the map to be exactly identical at both sides, but there should be some way of negating this.
Okay, here is a pretty far out there idea - what if there were two roshans - one on the dire side and one on the radiant side, but only the dire team could kill the dire rosh and only the radiant could kill the radiant rosh. when one team kills their rosh, both rosh's die (obviously, if you kill the team while they are roshing, you couldn't finish it off yourselves then...you could play around with this idea though)
A pretty silly idea, but I mean, might as well float out some ideas out there, right? |
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| Qbek Poland. May 24 2012 01:07. Posts 4266 | Profile # |
| I've seen the double rosh idea somewhere a long time ago, it really can't work without putting in some silly restrictions or more randomness, both of which we'd rather not put more into dota |
| | I dojed huehue // Play for fun or try the harderest with vengeance | |
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 Kupon3ss United States. May 24 2012 01:13. Posts 2770 | Profile # |
An attempt at changing this was done in HoN at some point iirc, at various times, the following were added:
slight modification for rosh to be moved out a bit more and for the entrance to point out more
removal of the vision blocker from the entrance so wards on the sent side can see into the pit to prevent the smoke -> rosh and for the engaging team to see what's going on
the addition of an additional ramp down from the sent side of the river to allow faster access (around 15s from the sent t1 mid)
buffed hp and dmg
stopped armor reduction from affecting rosh
made aegis 7 minutes so a team had to do something with the aegis instead of just being able to position and wait for another one
These changes obviously didn't address the fundamental map balance problem of being asymmetric and were effective to varying degrees, but I feel that at least the aegis duration and vision blocker changes were generally quite effective and should be attempted.
The complete nullification of armor reduction seemed too big of a change and greatly reduced the effectiveness of certain possibilities, so perhaps a 1/2 or 1/3 effectiveness modifier might allow valid strats to remain while making rosh not die in 10 seconds |
| | This is what people who are too lazy to think of a signature do ~壮哉我大酒神~ | |
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| nihoh Australia. May 24 2012 01:47. Posts 937 | Profile Blog # |
| Orrrrrrrrrrrrr they can respawn at 60% HP and no mana?.. |
| | Dont look at the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory. |
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| MrCon France. May 24 2012 02:21. Posts 20356 | Profile # |
On May 24 2012 01:02 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 00:07 MrCon wrote:
I think Roshan should be harder. Roshan was designed before medaillon, an item that makes him very easy to kill. I like his suggestions of making him immune to armor reduction, stuns, and make him dispel everything that isn't a hero like he does to illusions. Also he should have way more than 3 armor. Basically you should commit to Roshan, and not just kill him because you were passing in the neighborhood.
This still doesn't necessarily address the map position imbalance he has - which to me is a pretty huge deal. I dont expect the map to be exactly identical at both sides, but there should be some way of negating this. Okay, here is a pretty far out there idea - what if there were two roshans - one on the dire side and one on the radiant side, but only the dire team could kill the dire rosh and only the radiant could kill the radiant rosh. when one team kills their rosh, both rosh's die (obviously, if you kill the team while they are roshing, you couldn't finish it off yourselves then...you could play around with this idea though) A pretty silly idea, but I mean, might as well float out some ideas out there, right?
In fact Roshan being harder (so longer) to kill addresses a big part the positional imbalance. I think it's explained well enough in the article. (basically the main concrete problem is that Dire can most of the time kill Roshan fast enough so that even if insta scouted, Radiant can't react and be there in time, at least that's what I understood from the article)Last edit: 2012-05-24 02:26:07 |
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| Heh_ Singapore. May 24 2012 02:34. Posts 2245 | Profile Blog # |
| Interesting part about the aegis. I miss the days where you could buy it, and have something like BoT aegis guinsoo rapier rapier hyperstone on my techies. Those were also the days when people didn't realize that mines are pretty painful to step on. |
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| Qbek Poland. May 24 2012 03:23. Posts 4266 | Profile # | |
| | I dojed huehue // Play for fun or try the harderest with vengeance | |
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| Dattish Sweden. May 24 2012 03:30. Posts 2738 | Profile # |
| Fun fact: Pajkatt was the first player to do a rampage in a broadcasted Dota 2 game. |
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| Yoshi- Germany. May 24 2012 03:31. Posts 4057 | Profile # |
Wasn't that during TI?
With sniper? |
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| Dattish Sweden. May 24 2012 03:32. Posts 2738 | Profile # |
On May 24 2012 03:31 Yoshi- wrote:
Wasn't that during TI?
With sniper?
yup. |
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| Chiharu Harukaze May 24 2012 03:34. Posts 6455 | Profile # | |
| | It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?" (I am not MoonBear's smurf. Definitely not.) |
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| Firebolt145 United Kingdom. May 24 2012 03:39. Posts 12352 | Profile # |
On May 24 2012 03:30 Dattish wrote:
Fun fact: Pajkatt was the first player to do a rampage in a broadcasted Dota 2 game.
Any chance of a vod? |
| | @Firebolt145 | Dota 2 stream yayayay www.twitch.tv/firebolt145 | |
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