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 Kipsate Netherlands. August 02 2012 10:06. Posts 18150 | Profile Blog # |
| Dire lycan is a lot stronger due to easier,safer jungle and roshan, Radiant Lycan isn't that bad. |
| | Park Ji Yeon/Ye Eun/Kang Min Kyung, T-ara/Wonder Girls/Davichi | |
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| shostakovich Brazil. August 02 2012 11:37. Posts 719 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 09:35 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:It's a shame that you get a 0% winrate with 0 games played. Maybe wait for some data ^_^
I'm not talking about august specifically, but on the whole graph. |
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| Nilrem United States. August 02 2012 12:21. Posts 1360 | Profile Blog # |
I avoid using Lycan when possible. For myself, he is too boring and easy to win with in pub games (especially when dire). It does mean your team has to hold off 4v5 until Lycan is level 6 but once he is, things become much easier. But I find him to be incredibly boring since the core items are nearly always the same (variables such as when you get the bkb can change depending on the other teams makeup), but it just gets to be so boring jungling.
I like furions jungle since even while jungling, you can help gank early levels abd there is some fun with him (broader range of items), and even Enigma is much mroe enjoyable since although the items are similar to Lycan in that they are usually the same (dagger + bkb), timing and using the blackhole combo makes him (well... it lol) more enjoyable.
The other hero I avoid using is Ursa. I despise playing him with a passion. if you got the stuns, you can stop him. But since I play pretty much only SD, chances of a pub having the right team makeup is quite the gamble.
Trying to think what other heroes I avoid playing. Bs I sometimes avoid because he is such a troll hero, and at times Huskar since way too easy as well. I will play them if need be but sometimes I feel dirty playing them  |
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| NB Canada. August 02 2012 13:32. Posts 6997 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 12:21 Nilrem wrote:I avoid using Lycan when possible. For myself, he is too boring and easy to win with in pub games (especially when dire). It does mean your team has to hold off 4v5 until Lycan is level 6 but once he is, things become much easier. But I find him to be incredibly boring since the core items are nearly always the same (variables such as when you get the bkb can change depending on the other teams makeup), but it just gets to be so boring jungling. I like furions jungle since even while jungling, you can help gank early levels abd there is some fun with him (broader range of items), and even Enigma is much mroe enjoyable since although the items are similar to Lycan in that they are usually the same (dagger + bkb), timing and using the blackhole combo makes him (well... it lol) more enjoyable. The other hero I avoid using is Ursa. I despise playing him with a passion. if you got the stuns, you can stop him. But since I play pretty much only SD, chances of a pub having the right team makeup is quite the gamble. Trying to think what other heroes I avoid playing. Bs I sometimes avoid because he is such a troll hero, and at times Huskar since way too easy as well. I will play them if need be but sometimes I feel dirty playing them
you are not even on topic... we are talking about competitive games and you are talking about ur pub games.... |
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| Nilrem United States. August 02 2012 13:49. Posts 1360 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 13:32 NB wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 12:21 Nilrem wrote:I avoid using Lycan when possible. For myself, he is too boring and easy to win with in pub games (especially when dire). It does mean your team has to hold off 4v5 until Lycan is level 6 but once he is, things become much easier. But I find him to be incredibly boring since the core items are nearly always the same (variables such as when you get the bkb can change depending on the other teams makeup), but it just gets to be so boring jungling. I like furions jungle since even while jungling, you can help gank early levels abd there is some fun with him (broader range of items), and even Enigma is much mroe enjoyable since although the items are similar to Lycan in that they are usually the same (dagger + bkb), timing and using the blackhole combo makes him (well... it lol) more enjoyable. The other hero I avoid using is Ursa. I despise playing him with a passion. if you got the stuns, you can stop him. But since I play pretty much only SD, chances of a pub having the right team makeup is quite the gamble. Trying to think what other heroes I avoid playing. Bs I sometimes avoid because he is such a troll hero, and at times Huskar since way too easy as well. I will play them if need be but sometimes I feel dirty playing them
you are not even on topic... we are talking about competitive games and you are talking about ur pub games....
Lycan was brought up. Yes, it was in regards to teams picking him up but it was still on the topic of Lycan. I also was talking about other heroes that I personally do not like to play as in this General thread. For some reason, I thought I would be able to bring up a topic with similarities without being criticized but I guess not (and yes, this is passive aggressive).
Anyway, I will drop the subject and wait till another topic comes up and stick to it like glue to avoid this obvious mistake in the future. |
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| Firebolt145 United Kingdom. August 02 2012 14:39. Posts 12404 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 13:32 NB wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 12:21 Nilrem wrote:I avoid using Lycan when possible. For myself, he is too boring and easy to win with in pub games (especially when dire). It does mean your team has to hold off 4v5 until Lycan is level 6 but once he is, things become much easier. But I find him to be incredibly boring since the core items are nearly always the same (variables such as when you get the bkb can change depending on the other teams makeup), but it just gets to be so boring jungling. I like furions jungle since even while jungling, you can help gank early levels abd there is some fun with him (broader range of items), and even Enigma is much mroe enjoyable since although the items are similar to Lycan in that they are usually the same (dagger + bkb), timing and using the blackhole combo makes him (well... it lol) more enjoyable. The other hero I avoid using is Ursa. I despise playing him with a passion. if you got the stuns, you can stop him. But since I play pretty much only SD, chances of a pub having the right team makeup is quite the gamble. Trying to think what other heroes I avoid playing. Bs I sometimes avoid because he is such a troll hero, and at times Huskar since way too easy as well. I will play them if need be but sometimes I feel dirty playing them
you are not even on topic... we are talking about competitive games and you are talking about ur pub games....
Nothing wrong with taking things off on a tangent in a general topic. Lighten up. |
| | @Firebolt145 | Dota 2 stream yayayay www.twitch.tv/firebolt145 | |
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| LAN-f34r New Zealand. August 02 2012 15:04. Posts 1057 | Profile # |
The lycan stats aren't as promising as they may seem.
-Pros don't practice lycan as much as they do other heroes because he is always banned - aka lycan is played sub-optimally
-If lycan ever gets through the bans, its probably because the other team has been preparing for him and has a plan to deal with him.
-the stats don't show the difference between radiant and dire lycan, so radiant lycan may be over represented. |
| | The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though). | |
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| rabidch Singapore. August 02 2012 15:17. Posts 8090 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 15:04 LAN-f34r wrote:
The lycan stats aren't as promising as they may seem.
-Pros don't practice lycan as much as they do other heroes because he is always banned - aka lycan is played sub-optimally
-If lycan ever gets through the bans, its probably because the other team has been preparing for him and has a plan to deal with him.
-the stats don't show the difference between radiant and dire lycan, so radiant lycan may be over represented.
indeed. the one game dire lycan lost the dire had i believe 6 roshes (pretty ridiculous) |
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| Nilrem United States. August 02 2012 15:23. Posts 1360 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 15:04 LAN-f34r wrote:
The lycan stats aren't as promising as they may seem.
-Pros don't practice lycan as much as they do other heroes because he is always banned - aka lycan is played sub-optimally
-If lycan ever gets through the bans, its probably because the other team has been preparing for him and has a plan to deal with him.
-the stats don't show the difference between radiant and dire lycan, so radiant lycan may be over represented.
Here is a question, how many heroes yet to be added have the potential for priority ban in the competetive scene (for example, meepo)? I was just thinking about how the addition of more heroes can influence the ban rate for lycan, which has the potential for more use (if banned less).
He may not be used as often due to potential or likelihood of ban, but with more heroes, there should be a chance of being used more often? I am not too knowledgeable of original dota competetive scene so I am in the dark. But just may a ray of light for Lycan down the line. |
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| SirMilford Australia. August 02 2012 15:28. Posts 859 | Profile Blog # |
While we are still on the lycan topic, How do you guys start in jungle? usually i will summon wolves in base to scout runes, then resummon so i have full mana+wolves and go to jungle. I then kill the "Small" camp and usually damage down the medium camp if dire, the harder camp if radiant.
This is because i will usually go axe+tango(orhppot)+Mana pots
What would you guys say is the most "optimal" Jungle/item build in the beginning of the game for both radiant and dire.
I feel that a fast vlads is good, and if they are shutting you down you go fast medallion. BUt by midgame you should have aegis+vlads+medallion+phase. |
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| Kupon3ss United States. August 02 2012 15:44. Posts 2773 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 15:23 Nilrem wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 15:04 LAN-f34r wrote:
The lycan stats aren't as promising as they may seem.
-Pros don't practice lycan as much as they do other heroes because he is always banned - aka lycan is played sub-optimally
-If lycan ever gets through the bans, its probably because the other team has been preparing for him and has a plan to deal with him.
-the stats don't show the difference between radiant and dire lycan, so radiant lycan may be over represented.
Here is a question, how many heroes yet to be added have the potential for priority ban in the competetive scene (for example, meepo)? I was just thinking about how the addition of more heroes can influence the ban rate for lycan, which has the potential for more use (if banned less). He may not be used as often due to potential or likelihood of ban, but with more heroes, there should be a chance of being used more often? I am not too knowledgeable of original dota competetive scene so I am in the dark. But just may a ray of light for Lycan down the line.
At this point probably only TC, tho I think a lot of the heroes are probably viable as well, I can see magnataur and walrus punch both be significantly more effective in dota 2, for example |
| | This is what people who are too lazy to think of a signature do ~壮哉我大酒神~ | |
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| The Great Taste August 02 2012 15:48. Posts 190 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 15:44 Kupon3ss wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 15:23 Nilrem wrote:
On August 02 2012 15:04 LAN-f34r wrote:
The lycan stats aren't as promising as they may seem.
-Pros don't practice lycan as much as they do other heroes because he is always banned - aka lycan is played sub-optimally
-If lycan ever gets through the bans, its probably because the other team has been preparing for him and has a plan to deal with him.
-the stats don't show the difference between radiant and dire lycan, so radiant lycan may be over represented.
Here is a question, how many heroes yet to be added have the potential for priority ban in the competetive scene (for example, meepo)? I was just thinking about how the addition of more heroes can influence the ban rate for lycan, which has the potential for more use (if banned less). He may not be used as often due to potential or likelihood of ban, but with more heroes, there should be a chance of being used more often? I am not too knowledgeable of original dota competetive scene so I am in the dark. But just may a ray of light for Lycan down the line.
At this point probably only TC, tho I think a lot of the heroes are probably viable as well, I can see magnataur and walrus punch both be significantly more effective in dota 2, for example
I'd love to see magnataur and medusa but they aren't very good picks currently. Tuskarr could be but he's melee and snowballing in is very committal. If it doesn't hit you could end up with a dead walrus and currently he's not seen at all. Meepo is never seen at the moment either and TC was picked twice I think but not much more than that.
Most heroes that were important in the current metagame were put in as Valve prioritised getting those heroes in. |
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| shostakovich Brazil. August 02 2012 16:45. Posts 719 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 15:17 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 15:04 LAN-f34r wrote:
The lycan stats aren't as promising as they may seem.
-Pros don't practice lycan as much as they do other heroes because he is always banned - aka lycan is played sub-optimally
-If lycan ever gets through the bans, its probably because the other team has been preparing for him and has a plan to deal with him.
-the stats don't show the difference between radiant and dire lycan, so radiant lycan may be over represented.
indeed. the one game dire lycan lost the dire had i believe 6 roshes (pretty ridiculous)
Lycan winrate as Radiant: 64%. Lycan winrate as Dire: 49%. The stats show the difference, you just need to look for it.
I think the big problem with Lycan is that you give way too much information by first-picking him. That's the huge issue, teams giving too much information might end getting outpicked, outlaned and destroyed in the mid-game. |
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| rabidch Singapore. August 02 2012 18:26. Posts 8090 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 15:48 The Great Taste wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 15:44 Kupon3ss wrote:
On August 02 2012 15:23 Nilrem wrote:
On August 02 2012 15:04 LAN-f34r wrote:
The lycan stats aren't as promising as they may seem.
-Pros don't practice lycan as much as they do other heroes because he is always banned - aka lycan is played sub-optimally
-If lycan ever gets through the bans, its probably because the other team has been preparing for him and has a plan to deal with him.
-the stats don't show the difference between radiant and dire lycan, so radiant lycan may be over represented.
Here is a question, how many heroes yet to be added have the potential for priority ban in the competetive scene (for example, meepo)? I was just thinking about how the addition of more heroes can influence the ban rate for lycan, which has the potential for more use (if banned less). He may not be used as often due to potential or likelihood of ban, but with more heroes, there should be a chance of being used more often? I am not too knowledgeable of original dota competetive scene so I am in the dark. But just may a ray of light for Lycan down the line.
At this point probably only TC, tho I think a lot of the heroes are probably viable as well, I can see magnataur and walrus punch both be significantly more effective in dota 2, for example
I'd love to see magnataur and medusa but they aren't very good picks currently. Tuskarr could be but he's melee and snowballing in is very committal. If it doesn't hit you could end up with a dead walrus and currently he's not seen at all. Meepo is never seen at the moment either and TC was picked twice I think but not much more than that. Most heroes that were important in the current metagame were put in as Valve prioritised getting those heroes in.
TC is an occasional pick in chinese dota1 and i wouldnt be surprised if some SEA or western teams would use him if he were ever added
magnataur would be based on how much easier skewer is to use, but he's less flexible than enigma. walrus punch would depend on lothars interaction, but a few other things would need to feel better as well |
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| Kipsate Netherlands. August 02 2012 18:49. Posts 18150 | Profile Blog # |
I like getting double sobis(Rob, then get 1 for medallion) and then go for the vlads, saves me a clarity or 2. Also never return to base unless you absolutely need to, you can ferry clarities even when you are like level 10-11, it will cost you(significantly) less then going back to base and tping(during which time you will not be farming).
Always QB though, always.
Also Medusa  .
On August 02 2012 19:33 Attakijing wrote:
If I may, I'd like to ask what other characters you avoid picking because they make the game "too easy" in pubs. For me it's chaos knight, ursa and riki, but i am in the low skill bracket so things are probably different for me.
Lycan and Anti-Mage.Last edit: 2012-08-02 19:53:36 |
| | Park Ji Yeon/Ye Eun/Kang Min Kyung, T-ara/Wonder Girls/Davichi | |
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| Attakijing United States. August 02 2012 19:33. Posts 350 | Profile # |
| If I may, I'd like to ask what other characters you avoid picking because they make the game "too easy" in pubs. For me it's chaos knight, ursa and riki, but i am in the low skill bracket so things are probably different for me. |
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| igotmyown United States. August 02 2012 20:11. Posts 2898 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 15:28 SirMilford wrote:
While we are still on the lycan topic, How do you guys start in jungle? usually i will summon wolves in base to scout runes, then resummon so i have full mana+wolves and go to jungle. I then kill the "Small" camp and usually damage down the medium camp if dire, the harder camp if radiant.
This is because i will usually go axe+tango(orhppot)+Mana pots
What would you guys say is the most "optimal" Jungle/item build in the beginning of the game for both radiant and dire.
I feel that a fast vlads is good, and if they are shutting you down you go fast medallion. BUt by midgame you should have aegis+vlads+medallion+phase.
Scouting: first set scout for players. Second set (summon before :30 before game starts) scout for runes, deny on spawn if you can't control. 3rd set, summon and send to creeps.
For scourge, send wolves past the big camp and to the closest medium camp, walk to big camp (scout both when they spawn).
For sentinel you can either do the safe strategy (close big camp), or you run to the further big camp, scout with your wolves (you won't get there in time), then scout both medium camps while you get there.
If big camp is a troll warlord, send wolves back to big camp. If big camp isn't troll warlords, kill medium camp if it's satyrs or golems (attack with wolves before you get there. they will time out before they die). If medium camp is ogres or centaur, clear big camp if it's not big camp or wildkin. If bad medium camp and wildkin, just clear the big wildkin. If they're both bad, clear as much of the small camp as possible before you pull it.
Then alternate between non ogre/centaur medium camps, troll warlords, and small camps. Perfect luck is troll warlords then medium satyr which gets you immediate level 3 (or you might be short one creep), then you creep very fast.
level 4 wolves can clear anything except pandas and troll satyrs on their own, although it helps if you howl while they clear the big camp.
Items: qb is the fastest leveling item at level 1. At level 1 increasing your base damage >> extra wolves, and qb increases it the most. Then basilius (best mana+armor+damage), then a second sobi mask, sometimes you'll need a second clarity or regen with bad spawns, then medallion. If you're really behind that early, you might have to skip medallion.
Edit: go magic stick after medallion, and that will be enough to solve all your mana problems. Intentionally draw stomps and waves for extra mana.
Lycan's more interesting than people think because at level 5+, you should be clearing two camps at once, one with your wolves, one with your hero. And always have to position your wolves so that they are clearing the camp closer to aggressive gankers (which should happen a lot if you pick lycan), and past level 5 you should be double pulling camps with you and your wolves if you can't clear them in time. Also you have to choose between pushing towers and neutral-ing, and that requires a lot of judgement mixed with aggression.
You can win as a passive, crappy lycan, but you can also play him well.Last edit: 2012-08-02 20:13:02 |
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| Kipsate Netherlands. August 02 2012 20:30. Posts 18150 | Profile Blog # |
| You can clear large satyrs at level 1 too because Dota 2 AI isn't the same as Dota 1(huge difference, wonder when theyl fix it). |
| | Park Ji Yeon/Ye Eun/Kang Min Kyung, T-ara/Wonder Girls/Davichi | |
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| Nilrem United States. August 02 2012 20:35. Posts 1360 | Profile Blog # |
As suggested, Lycan and Anti-mage. Although I will admit Anti-mage can be fun at times with blink and landing a nice ult. I just dislike heroes where it is just farm-farm-farm and than roflstomp. It gets to be so boring at times. Much more enjoyable playing with heroes where you do not just right-click someone to death after farming :-) Some may not agree, I would also add faceless void.
As for the heroes I enjoy at least. Storm-Spirit would be quite fun. Shadow fiend is fun too, although the items are little more basic (blink dagger, bkb, etc), but landing shadowraze is very fulfilling.
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| Judicator United States. August 02 2012 22:23. Posts 5728 | Profile Blog # |
| When considering the competitive heroes still left to be ported over, it's hard to say which ones will definitely impact the meta simply because of the engine differences. I would say Terrorblade, Magnataur and Centaur Warchief are the three most promising after TC. |
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