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| cilinder007 Slovenia. August 06 2012 22:57. Posts 3537 | Profile # |
| there are just heros that do what he does better than him |
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| Dead9 United States. August 06 2012 23:03. Posts 2404 | Profile Blog # |
On August 06 2012 22:56 Unleashing wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 22:53 Dead9 wrote:
On August 06 2012 22:42 Unleashing wrote:
On August 06 2012 22:34 Dead9 wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:40 Unleashing wrote:
On August 06 2012 09:42 AndyJay wrote:
Bloodseeker's strength is dominating the shit out of 1v1 mid laning. I'm not saying he can do this in pro games but at least at my MMR ( mid lvl pub games) a bs can last hit everything vs a low dmg solo ranged mid (and still do well and often win lane vs melee's as well) and get a huge gold/exp advantage which snowballs his ganking/carrying ability. So yes Night stalker is obviously a better ganker, but a NS can't regen form half hp back to full off one creep wave either. That may or may not be useful, and as a useful hero NS might be better overall, but they are not simply the same but NS better.
Winning your lane is pointless if you still aren't very useful to your team. Honestly, i don't have any problem against BS mid, ever. Not even with heroes like rhasta. Pub seeker works if your whole team can snowball out of control and have a huge advantage. But the later the game goes against a real carry he'll just not really be worth it.
that's cus he's not a hard carry and shouldn't be played as one lol you could say the same thing about night stalker or any other hero that peaks midgame
I didnt' say he was a hard carry at all, but blood seeker's mid-game isn't even that good, which was my point. Sure he can do decent in lane due to sustain, but outside of that he's really not a good hero. For example, he needs the enemy to be low hp to be able to chase. he eneds his ult to get kills as a ganker Night stalker does everything he does better, as already stated. And lategame NS is still pretty useful with aghanim and so on.
he's stronger in lane than ns, his ulti is really good all game long, and a lot of the time silence can do some work his midgame is pretty good, in particular he's one of the best countergankers in the game once he gets his ult bs certainly isn't amazing but he's not that bad in pubs
Him being stronger in lane depends entirely on his enemy. And no his ulti has no real effect the second the enemies he need to target gets items that prevent him from touching them, like a bkb. And his silence is a double edged sword. And i never said he was bad in pubs, i just said he's not a very good hero. A lot of not so good heroes do fantastically in pubs. I mean a night stalker with aghanim is 10 times more useful than a blood seeker in a game with good players.
yes, because you'll always have a bkb and you obviously always want to hit bkb when you get ruptured from 1000 distance, often before the teamfight even begins
silencing supports is almost never bad, and certain heroes get absolutely crippled by silence
you're saying he's not even useful to the team even if he wins his lane, and that's not true at all |
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| Unleashing Denmark. August 06 2012 23:19. Posts 2572 | Profile # |
On August 06 2012 23:03 Dead9 wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 22:56 Unleashing wrote:
On August 06 2012 22:53 Dead9 wrote:
On August 06 2012 22:42 Unleashing wrote:
On August 06 2012 22:34 Dead9 wrote:
On August 06 2012 21:40 Unleashing wrote:
On August 06 2012 09:42 AndyJay wrote:
Bloodseeker's strength is dominating the shit out of 1v1 mid laning. I'm not saying he can do this in pro games but at least at my MMR ( mid lvl pub games) a bs can last hit everything vs a low dmg solo ranged mid (and still do well and often win lane vs melee's as well) and get a huge gold/exp advantage which snowballs his ganking/carrying ability. So yes Night stalker is obviously a better ganker, but a NS can't regen form half hp back to full off one creep wave either. That may or may not be useful, and as a useful hero NS might be better overall, but they are not simply the same but NS better.
Winning your lane is pointless if you still aren't very useful to your team. Honestly, i don't have any problem against BS mid, ever. Not even with heroes like rhasta. Pub seeker works if your whole team can snowball out of control and have a huge advantage. But the later the game goes against a real carry he'll just not really be worth it.
that's cus he's not a hard carry and shouldn't be played as one lol you could say the same thing about night stalker or any other hero that peaks midgame
I didnt' say he was a hard carry at all, but blood seeker's mid-game isn't even that good, which was my point. Sure he can do decent in lane due to sustain, but outside of that he's really not a good hero. For example, he needs the enemy to be low hp to be able to chase. he eneds his ult to get kills as a ganker Night stalker does everything he does better, as already stated. And lategame NS is still pretty useful with aghanim and so on.
he's stronger in lane than ns, his ulti is really good all game long, and a lot of the time silence can do some work his midgame is pretty good, in particular he's one of the best countergankers in the game once he gets his ult bs certainly isn't amazing but he's not that bad in pubs
Him being stronger in lane depends entirely on his enemy. And no his ulti has no real effect the second the enemies he need to target gets items that prevent him from touching them, like a bkb. And his silence is a double edged sword. And i never said he was bad in pubs, i just said he's not a very good hero. A lot of not so good heroes do fantastically in pubs. I mean a night stalker with aghanim is 10 times more useful than a blood seeker in a game with good players.
yes, because you'll always have a bkb and you obviously always want to hit bkb when you get ruptured from 1000 distance, often before the teamfight even begins silencing supports is almost never bad, and certain heroes get absolutely crippled by silence you're saying he's not even useful to the team even if he wins his lane, and that's not true at all
Why would you BKB if you got ruptured when him and his team is far away from you? You can just wait for it to wear off, and if they come and engage on you, then you'll need to bkb anyway.
And yes lategame against a BS you'll have a bkb.
And yes he can be useful if he wins his lane, but he'd be a lot more useful if he was a hero that actually did what bloodseeker attempts to do, better.
He's a bad hero against good opponents.
Pubs rarely have any coordination, at all, which is why heroes like him can work there.
I'd personally much rather have a night stalker on my team, because he's a better hero.
Any hero can be useful to his team granted the right circumstances, doesn't mean the hero is good/bad/decent. Just like if you win your lane and your opponent feeds you, sure a spirit breaker can be useful, does this make spirit breaker a good hero? Nope. |
| | "Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - KuroKy | |
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| Erasme France. August 06 2012 23:38. Posts 4229 | Profile Blog # |
| I've always wanted to win once with sb. |
| | I've been on wodota. What have you been doing with your life ? | |
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| Dattish Sweden. August 06 2012 23:43. Posts 2772 | Profile # |
On August 06 2012 23:38 Erasme wrote:
I've always wanted to win once with sb.
go play wc3 dota on garena, sb op. |
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| Qbek Poland. August 06 2012 23:45. Posts 4408 | Profile # |
| I remember joining 3v3 apem games and going SB into 25/0 (no assists back then) |
| | I dojed huehue // Play for fun or try the harderest with vengeance | |
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| Slomo Germany. August 06 2012 23:55. Posts 862 | Profile # |
CWM streaming onm twitch now. Why? |
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| Dead9 United States. August 06 2012 23:59. Posts 2404 | Profile Blog # |
On August 06 2012 23:19 Unleashing wrote:
so it's lategame all game long then? and somehow all of their heroes have bkb?
what are you gonna tell me next, sven stun sucks cus you can just bkb it? tree ult sucks because you can just bkb out of it? i mean obviously bkb is nice to have against bloodseeker, but there's still plenty of scenarios where rupture is useful for forcing bkbs or forcing fights, and on top of that it does a decent chunk of initial damage anyway
he's a bad hero against organized teams, sure, but nobody plays seriously in pub games anyway, and were aren't talking about scrims or anything so i don't see how that's relevant at allLast edit: 2012-08-07 00:03:46 |
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| Firebolt145 United Kingdom. August 07 2012 00:01. Posts 12831 | Profile # |
| Nice job with that bb code yo ~ |
| | @Firebolt145 | Dota 2 stream back in August! | |
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| Dead9 United States. August 07 2012 00:04. Posts 2404 | Profile Blog # |
yeah high level bbcode
it's okay close enough now |
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| BlitzerSC Italy. August 07 2012 00:06. Posts 2654 | Profile # |
On August 06 2012 23:59 Dead9 wrote:so it's lategame all game long then? and somehow all of their heroes have bkb? what are you gonna tell me next, sven stun sucks cus you can just bkb it? tree ult sucks because you can just bkb out of it? i mean obviously bkb is nice to have against bloodseeker, but there's still plenty of scenarios where rupture is useful for forcing bkbs or forcing fights, and on top of that it does a decent chunk of initial damage anyway he's a bad hero against organized teams, sure, but nobody plays seriously in pub games anyway, and were aren't talking about scrims or anything so i don't see how that's relevant at all
You can't dodge teant protector ult and sven stun with bkb afaik. |
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| Dead9 United States. August 07 2012 00:11. Posts 2404 | Profile Blog # |
On August 07 2012 00:06 BlitzerSC wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 23:59 Dead9 wrote:
On August 06 2012 23:19 Unleashing wrote:
so it's lategame all game long then? and somehow all of their heroes have bkb? what are you gonna tell me next, sven stun sucks cus you can just bkb it? tree ult sucks because you can just bkb out of it? i mean obviously bkb is nice to have against bloodseeker, but there's still plenty of scenarios where rupture is useful for forcing bkbs or forcing fights, and on top of that it does a decent chunk of initial damage anyway he's a bad hero against organized teams, sure, but nobody plays seriously in pub games anyway, and were aren't talking about scrims or anything so i don't see how that's relevant at all
You can't dodge teant protector ult and sven stun with bkb afaik.
you can bkb out of tree ult (after it's cast) and bkb to block sven stun (pretty easily because the projectile is so slow) |
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| PassiveAce United States. August 07 2012 00:41. Posts 4662 | Profile Blog # |
I hate asking this but...
Is Dota2 down?
it gives me connecting to network for a long time and then is very slow.Last edit: 2012-08-07 00:42:02 |
| | "I'm gonna wring your pants" || Official FireboltGamer (1 of around 9) | |
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| Dattish Sweden. August 07 2012 00:42. Posts 2772 | Profile # |
ye, just went down and my epic od game didn't record  |
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| Unleashing Denmark. August 07 2012 01:31. Posts 2572 | Profile # |
On August 06 2012 23:59 Dead9 wrote:
so it's lategame all game long then? and somehow all of their heroes have bkb?
Did i say that? No? Yea, i didn't think so.
On August 06 2012 23:59 Dead9 wrote:what are you gonna tell me next, sven stun sucks cus you can just bkb it? tree ult sucks because you can just bkb out of it?
Why would i say any of those two things?
Especially because you're making a really horrible comparison by bringing the two of those up.
First of all sven's isn't an ulti, second of all treant protector can fire his ulti off after the enemies use their BKBs or force them to keep it for his ulti, bkb vs blood seeker ulti on the other hand? Fucks hard with it.
On August 06 2012 23:59 Dead9 wrote:I mean obviously bkb is nice to have against bloodseeker, but there's still plenty of scenarios where rupture is useful for forcing bkbs or forcing fights, and on top of that it does a decent chunk of initial damage anyway
Sure, did i say otherwise? Nope, i did not.
On August 06 2012 23:59 Dead9 wrote:he's a bad hero against organized teams, sure, but nobody plays seriously in pub games anyway, and were aren't talking about scrims or anything so i don't see how that's relevant at all
Did i ever say he was a hero that didn't work in pubs? Hey, let's look back quickly... Nope, i didn't.
On the other hand i said he's a bad hero against good players, which is correct.
Sorry, but you're putting words in my mouth there, which i am not interested in, i never said anything about pub seeker not working in pubs, quite the opposite, i've said that he does indeed work in pubs. But not against good players.
Everything is useful given the right scenarios, blood seeker thrives in scenarios where the enemies aren't organized, and against any even remotely competent players it's not hard to go lategame against a pub-seeker, because he doesn't help much with pushing, at all. So getting lategame against him is not really hard, most of the time, unless of course the rest of his team is focused around pushing or something and you have 5 melee carries, but again, i never said that he'd never work against pubs, which is where you'd find 5 melee carries on one team. But against good players, he's a horrible hero.Last edit: 2012-08-07 01:33:19 |
| | "Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - KuroKy | |
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| Firebolt145 United Kingdom. August 07 2012 01:56. Posts 12831 | Profile # |
| I think we need graphs to look at Bloodseeker's pub winrate and from there decide whether or not Bloodseeker is OP or UP. |
| | @Firebolt145 | Dota 2 stream back in August! | |
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| SKC Brazil. August 07 2012 02:00. Posts 3945 | Profile # |
On August 07 2012 01:56 Firebolt145 wrote:
I think we need graphs to look at Bloodseeker's pub winrate and from there decide whether or not Bloodseeker is OP or UP.
50.88% winrate, 3rd highest average kill per game, average number of deaths and last hits and 16th highest average GPM in the game. I vote OP. |
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| Erasme France. August 07 2012 02:06. Posts 4229 | Profile Blog # |
| skc wtf are you doing ? we need a graph here, not just some meaningless numbers. |
| | I've been on wodota. What have you been doing with your life ? | |
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| Dattish Sweden. August 07 2012 02:16. Posts 2772 | Profile # |
| we also need 16 pages discussing said graphs |
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| Oktyabr Singapore. August 07 2012 02:20. Posts 968 | Profile # |
On August 07 2012 01:56 Firebolt145 wrote:
I think we need graphs to look at Bloodseeker's pub winrate and from there decide whether or not Bloodseeker is OP or UP.
Agreed. But what happens if every bloodseeker in the front few pages for live matches get a victory? Is he then truly as good as ursa? |
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