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| eshlow United States. September 03 2011 04:33. Posts 5004 | Profile # |
Introduction and goals
It is my recommendation that you first read this article on the relationship between diet and exercise because it clears up many of the myths that you may have heard about specific effects of nutrition and exercise and their effects.
The first thing that needs to be said about training is what are your goals?
Goals determine what you are going to do. If you have goals, divide them into training, nutritional, sleep, stress/misc goals. These are the four main categories of health and fitness upon which everything is built.
As you may have noticed from the above articles, there are several factors which may affect your goals. Nutrition, in particular, is critical for losing or gaining weight. Weight loss goals tend to fall under fixing what you are eating rather than training; however, training can help to some extent.
Goals should be SMART goals:
Specific -- have numbers
Measurable -- so you can be encouraged by your progress
Attainable -- to develop the proper attitude and consistency
Realistic -- so that you are willing and able to work towards them
Timely -- to give a sense of urgency
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Contents of this thread
What is currently in this thread is recommendations from the previous TL Health and Fitness main threads.
This means several things:
1. If you are a trained athlete in certain areas of exercise and have a good knowledge on how to coach beginners and are willing to write up some information to post in this topic that would be appreciated.
I know there are some endurance runners, cyclists, etc. on here. PM me any writeups you have that may be useful.
2. Currently, this main post is focused towards strength weight lifting and bodyweight strength training.
This is because these are two of the most effective means for beginners to add muscle and/or help stimulate fat loss in conjunction with diet. Previously, I have written on fitness myths that you may have heard in regards to gaining fat and/or losing muscle.
Here's a recommended article from thedeadhaji on why:
http://www.mensjournal.com/everything-you-know-about-fitness-is-a-lie/
Also. see the below spoiler for more information.
Why not cardio? Why not lots of reps for toning?
+ Show Spoiler +Good questions. If you skipped over the link in the beginning read it now: >> First, a quick reminder or lesson on how exercise and nutrition affect each other. CardioCardio at its heart is a very weak at best at stimulating fat loss. For newer people to exercise, especially those looking to burn fat, cardio is very ineffective. You'll burn maybe 200-300 kcals per mile of exercise at best. Compare this to 3600 kcals in 1 lbs of fat we see at best you'll have to be running 12-18 miles just to burn one pound of fat. As a beginner even a couple miles is daunting, and people are expected to do at least this much for 1 lbs of fat? This is why losing weight is done in the kitchen. There's a lot of pervasive myths in the fitness industry but when they say that "abs are made in the kitchen" that is actually true. Weight training provides a stimulus for building muscle. Muscle is very hard to build because it requires lots of calories to actually build the muscle. If diet is strictly controlled, the body derives its energy from burning your fat mass to build the muscle. So in effect, you can "build muscle" and "lose fat" at the same time. (The caveat is that there is diminishing returns the leaner you get). Therefore, for newer people looking to lose fat it is advisable to lift heavy weights and make sure your nutrition is in order. Weights are superior over cardio (which is about 15-20% of the equation), and nutrition makes up the rest (which is about 80-85% of the equation) in losing weight. Don't get me wrong, cardio can be used effectively in some populations. However, for the average person looking to lose fat and/or gain muscle this is not one of them. Light weights and high repetitions for toningToning is bullshit. What does it mean anyway to look more toned or defined? Light weights high repetitions for toning is a huge myth that is pervasive in the fitness industry. When you boil it down to the facts, "toning" just means you want to lose fat (to see your muscles) and/or make your muscles bigger. So basically when you say you want to "tone" you want to gain muscle and/or lose fat. 1. High repetitions works endurance. It does not put on muscle mass. Strike one. 2. High repetitions does not burn much fat. Just like cardio doesn't. Strike two. 3. There is no such thing as spot reduction. That is to say that doing endless amounts of situps does not make your abs more defined. You have to put sufficient stress on a muscle to get it to grow. That is much easier done with heavy weights in the 5-8 repetition range (which, incidentally, is about the best repetition range for hypertrophy). If you thought light weights and high repetitions was going to lose you fat mass you're sorely mistaken. If an hours or two of cardio burns less than a pound of fat mass, how do you think that a 30 minute workout of light weights and high repetitions (which is essentially what cardio is for the legs) is going to burn any significant amount of fat mass? Therefore, for newer people looking to lose fat it is advisable to lift heavy weights and make sure your nutrition is in order. Weights are superior over cardio (which is about 15-20% of the equation), and nutrition makes up the rest (which is about 80-85% of the equation) in losing weight.
Testimonials of eliminating cardio from TL members:
+ Show Spoiler +DimmuKlok: + Show Spoiler +On June 18 2011 05:52 DimmuKlok wrote:
Hello everyone!
I reached my weight loss goal that I set for myself when I originally posted in this thread(Although I forgot to be specific). My goal was to reach 250lbs by June and I'm at 247lbs as of today. That's 33lbs lost since I started posting here and 63lbs lost total.
Since I've reached my initial goal and I'm still not satisfied yet, I'm going to make my next goal to be 220lbs before September.
On August 13 2011 02:29 DimmuKlok wrote:
Hello everyone, I'm back again with another update.
I quoted my last update for convenience. As of today I am 219.5lbs, meaning I reached my goal of hitting 220 by September! I'm very happy about this achievement. That's 90.5lbs lost so far from when I started in mid December at 310lbs.
I'm still not quite done, though. My next goal is to be 200lbs by Jan 1st of 2012. This goal I wasn't even sure could happen. When I first started losing weight I really only wanted to see if I could get to 250lbs, and if I could, then try to get to 230. Here I am at 219.5 and I'm looking at 200 being the ultimate goal. I have no idea what I'll look like when I do reach 200 because I've been overweight for so many years, but I'm eager to find out.
As for pictures, I don't have any right this moment but I do plan on uploading some. I will probably upload some before my next update (200 lbs) and for sure by Nov when everyone's supposed to post pictures. ^^
Thanks for reading everyone, and good luck with your own goals!
On August 13 2011 16:01 DimmuKlok wrote:
I started off just eating less than I normally ate, although not changing what I ate, and going to the gym daily to use an elliptical for an hour. This was before I found this thread and before I did much research on getting fit. I lost 30lbs doing this but it started to get really hard to lose additional weight. I was convinced that all I needed to do to lose additional weight was to do even more cardio.
Then I found TL H&F. I received tons of helpful information from the OP and from asking question in the thread. I eventually came to the conclusion that what I was doing was inferior. I started SS and eating as Paleo as possible, all the while watching my caloric intake. I was worried at first because up until then I thought cardio was the only way to lose weight and the more cardio you did the more weight you lost. But I was wrong.
I stopped doing cardio completely and relied on my diet to lose weight. I was happily surprised to find that I was losing weight even faster than I was before, and it was a lot easier than doing cardio for a couple hours everyday. SS helped with the weight loss too, but I mostly love SS for all the strength gain. I've been doing SS and eating Paleo(ish) ever since and have lost 90.5lbs so far, with 110lbs as my goal.
I strongly recommend anyone that wants to lose weight to try out the Paleo diet. There's a lot of helpful information about it in the OP and I've had nothing but success with it. Rest in progress...
3. Since most of the new people to the forum are looking to lose weight this is why we have made the recommendations we did in this thread. However, if you enjoy many other types of training then by all means go for it. However, if your goals are to lose fat and/or gain muscle you need to realize that your progress may not be as effective as if you adhered to the recommendations that we set forth in this thread.
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Information on training
A quick synopsis of exercise and training for beginners.
Exercise and training are two different things. Exercise is physical activity for its own sake, a workout done for the effect it produces today, during the workout or right after you're through. Training is physical activity done with a longer-term goal in mind, the constituent workouts of which are specifically designed to produce that goal. If a program of physical activity isn't designed to get you stronger or faster or better conditioned by producing a specific stress to which a specific desirable adaptation can occur, you don't get to call it training. It's just exercise. For most people, exercise is perfectly adequate – it's certainly better than sitting on your ass channel-surfing. [...] For a novice, any program is better than no program at all, so all of them work with varying degrees of efficiency. This is why everybody thinks their program works, and why you'll always find perfectly honest testimonials for every new exercise program on TV or the Internet. But nothing works as well as a moderate mathematical increase in some loading parameter each time, for as long as an adaptation to the increase continues to occur, because it's specifically designed to produce both stress and adaptation. Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Mark Rippetoe in this article
Thus,
1. Weights for the beginner (those looking to gain muscle and/or strength)
If you are new to working out and your goal is muscle mass and strength, Starting Strength is one of the best routines you can do. I would strongly suggest purchasing the book because it has at least 40-50 pages on squat technique alone along with the other technical aspects of the lifts that will help you make optimal progress. The writeup, however, is online in the link below.
>> Buy Starting Strength -- great on basic lifting technique & gaining mass and strength.
>> Starting Strength wiki
>> Starting Strength 2nd edition PDF
>> Why Starting Strength? -- the novice effect
The Stronglifts 5x5 program is a classic alternative to Starting Strength if desired. Another helpful writeup on this program.
TL member testimonials on above programs:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 19 2011 07:41 Malinor wrote:I decided that I am done with Starting Strength after todays workout. I only resetted my squat once, but the frequency of missed lifts got pretty high lately. The day after tomorrow I will also visit my parents for one week, and I don't have the best training environment there. And finally, I believe one deloading week in between is probably a very smart thing to do. I am not 18 anymore  And what better time to start a new programm after a deloading week. Therefore, I decided to max out on squat and deadlift today: squat: 190x1 200x1 205x1 210x1 215x1 and 220kgx1 (150x6 afterwards) Bench: 80kg 5-5-5 (still easy) deadlift: 210x1 220kgx1 and finally failed 227,5kg, which would have been 502lb. Maybe I am maxing out on overhead press tomorrow if I find the time. So next week is gonna be deload. Then I will start with Texas Method and work my way up to my actual 5RMs within four weeks, to acclimate myself with the new programm. So I won't hit new PRs for the next six weeks. Final SS numbers (5RM): Squat: 185kgPress: 78,5kgDeadlift: 190kgBO-Row: 91kg (stopped 2 weeks ago) Bench: 80kg (obviously not my max, didn't bench much because of my shoulder injury) Power Clean: 72,5kg (3RM, also not my max, since I only started two weeks ago) Starting Strength log+ Show Spoiler +
Date Squat Bench Press Dead BO-Row
26.Feb 90 x x 90 x
01.Mar 95 x 40 x 50
03.Mar 100 40 x 100 x
05.Mar 102,5 x 42,5 x 55
07.Mar 105 x x 105 x
09.Mar 107,5 x 45 x 60
11.Mar 110 50 x 110 x
13.Mar 112,5 x 50 x 62,5
15.Mar 115 55 x 115 x
17.Mar 117,5 x 52,5 x 65
19.Mar 120 60 x 125 x
22.Mar 122,5 x 55 x 67,5
24.Mar 125 i x 130 x
26.Mar 127,5 x 57,5 x 70
30.Mar 130 i x 135 x
01.Apr 132,5 x 60 x 72,5
03.Apr 135 i x 140 x
05.Apr 137,5 x 62,5 x 75
08.Apr 140 i x 145 x
11.Apr 142,5 x 63,5 x 77,5
13.Apr 145 i x 150 x
16.Apr 147,5 x 65 x 80
19.Apr 150 i x 155 x
21.Apr 152,5 x 66 x 81
23.Apr 155 i x 160 x
26.Apr 157,5 x 67,5 x 82,5
28.Apr 160 i x 165 x
30.Apr 162,5 x 68,5 x 83,5
03.Mai 165 i x 170 x
05.Mai 166 x 70 x 85
07.Mai 167,5 i x 175 x
10.Mai 168,5f x 71 x 86
12.Mai 168,5f 60 x 177,5 x
14.Mai 152,5 x 72,5 x 87,5
17.Mai 155 62,5 x 180 x
19.Mai 157,5 x 73,5f x 88,5
21.Mai 160 65 x 182,5f x
24.Mai 162,5 x 73,5 x 90s
26.Mai 165 67,5 x 182,5 x
28.Mai 167,5 x 75 x 90
31.Mai 170 70 x 185f x
02.Jun 172,5 x 76 x 91
04.Jun 175 72,5 x 185 x
P.Clean
07.Jun 177,5f x 77,5 x 67,5
09.Jun 177,5 75 x 187,5 x
11.Jun 180 x 78,5f x 70
14.Jun 182,5 77,5 x 190 x
16.Jun 185f x 78,5f x 72,5
18.Jun 1RM 80 x 1RM x
(220) (220)
_____________________________________________
Squat, Press, Bench and BO-Row: 3(Sets)x5(Reps)
Deadlift: 1(Set)x5(Reps)
Power Clean: 5(Sets)x3(Reps)
i=injury
f=fail
s=same weight next session (i.e. form issues)
all weights in kilogram
All in all, I never expected the past four months to be that productive. To be continued....
2. Weights for the intermediate (those looking to gain mass and/or strength):
Why is there no weight loss section?
+ Show Spoiler +This is because losing fat and getting into shape are all part of the beginner phase of training.
As long as you have significant amounts of fat mass, you can generally make extremely good gains in both losing fat, gaining strength, and gaining muscle at the same time. Thus, having any appreciable amounts of body fat still makes you a "beginner" in training.
If you are offended at being called a beginner or novice this is not something you should be worried about! You should be able to make very good progress. This is not something to be "upset" about over being labeled into such a category.
And yes, people that have been in the gym for 10+ years can still be beginners. It's not how long you've been training, it's how effective your training has been in regards to your overall results.
If you have been training a while and your lifts in the basic compounds such as squat, deadlift, power cleans, do not exceed 2x bodyweight you can try some of the classic advanced novice or intermediate programs listed in the spoiler and link below.
>> After Starting Strength Programs
+ Show Spoiler +Practical Programming Novice Program:
Monday
Squat 3x5
Bench press/press 3x5
Chin-ups: 3 sets to failure or add weight if completing more than 15 reps
Wednesday
Squat 3x5
Press/bench press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Friday
Squat 3x5
Bench press/press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure or add weight if completing more than 15 reps
Witchita Falls Novice Program:
Monday
Squat 3x5
Bench press/press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure or add weight if completing more than 15 reps
Wednesday
Squat 3x5
Press/Bench press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Friday
Squat 3x5
Bench press/press 3x5
Pendlay rows 3x5
(some information has pullups instead of pendlay rows)
Practical Programming Advanced Novice Program:
Week 1
Day 1
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Chin-ups: 3 sets, weight added so failure occurs at 5 to 7 reps
Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 (more sets may be added due to reduced frequency)
Day 3
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure, unweighted
Week 2
Day 1
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Chin-ups: 3 sets to failure, unweighted
Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Power clean 5x3
Day 3
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3 sets, weight added so failure occurs at 5 to 7 reps
(Credit to Tim Donahey writing this up as well as the SS wiki)
3. Bodyweight exercising for the beginner and intermediate
>> Fundamentals of bodyweight strength training.
Many more resources are located in the spoiler below.
+ Show Spoiler +
4. For the women
For the few women on our site, you should know that lifting weight is actually good for you. Well, I'll let some videos do the talking for me.
>> + Show Spoiler +
>> + Show Spoiler +
>> + Show Spoiler +
Heck, do searches for yourself like this:
>> + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=female+strength+high+school
Remember, form (e.g. physique) follows function (e.g. training for sports/athetics). If you train an a female athlete in the weight room you will start to look like one. And I would sincerely hope that you would rather be fit and athletic than super skinny/anorexic like society wants you to be.
Read the "Contents of this thread" #2 section for reasons on why cardio and low weights with high repetitions are not as effective for losing fat or other weight loss goals as strength training.
5. Other fitness/health resources
+ Show Spoiler +
Specific questions about athletics and sports may be asked to our resident experts from the TeamLiquid Manpower thread:
+ Show Spoiler +Sports+ Show Spoiler +Martial arts+ Show Spoiler +Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu (BBT) - r.EvoDutch style kickboxing - statixGoju-Ryu karate - GW.MethosJeet kune do - statix (basic) Jiu-Jitsu (Brazilian) - CommanderFluffy, iPF[Div], Priapus, statixKali - statix (basic) MMA+ Show Spoiler +
Conditioning - statix
Nutritional supplements - statix
- never_toss, statixMixed Martial Arts - iPF[Div]Ninjutsu - r.EvoQi gong - r.EvoTae Kwon Do - iPF[Div]Tai chi - r.Evo Archery - Lamentations, laikomgBadminton - Kau, exaltedBilliards (Pool) - deverlightBoxing - never_tossClimbing+ Show Spoiler +Fencing - MisteR, tree.huggerGolf - thedeadhaji, Lemonwalrus, Sadist, FaCE_1Gymnastics - eshlow, fanatacistSailing+ Show Spoiler +Olympic weightlifting - aon.dimsum Skateboarding - larjarseSkating - WillOwSkiing (cross-country) - CDRdude, MykillSwimming - CommanderFluffyTennis - ZaplinGWrestling - Priapus - FoucaultTeam sports+ Show Spoiler +American football - SweeTLemonS[TPR]Baseball - rekluce, Unbelievable237Basketball - rekluceCricket - GTR-2-GoCross country - vx70GTOJudgexvDragon Boat - CommanderFluffyFloorball - LemOnHockey - FaCE_1Paintball - krazymunkySailing+ Show Spoiler +Soccer - CommanderFluffy, never_toss, Lenwe, fanatacistUltimate frisbee - Hot_Bid, ZaplinG, icystorage, vx70GTOJudgexv, larjarse Bodyweight exercises - eshlowStrenth and muscular exercises - larjarseLong distance running - Titusmaster6, vx70GTOJudgexvCardiovascular excercises - larjarseWeightlifting - Yogurt, decafchicken, eshlowWeightlifting especially in football - DeathByMonkeysSupplements - eshlowInjuries - eshlow, OOlOOI: "I'm a physical therapy student with some decent knowledge of weight-training, MMA, brazillian jiu jitsu, sports-related injuries, posture-related issues, some computer-health issues and weightloss. (such as my carpal tunnel thread, see here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=113336"
Last edit: 2012-01-15 07:13:52 |
| | Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength |
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| wattabeast United States. September 21 2011 07:20. Posts 957 | Profile Blog # |
Thank you for this, Starting in the winter (after soccer season) I will get right on it  |
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| Froadac United States. September 26 2011 14:11. Posts 5604 | Profile Blog # |
In terms of testimonials about dropping cardio, I was running 3 miles/day every weekday before i encountered TLHF on recommendation from doctor.
After just 3 weeks of SS I was experiencing significantly less pain, and had put on a good amount of weight in a short period of time.
Still don't have that much weight, but in terms of general all around fitness, I can say that 3 weeks of SS did more for me than 3 months of constant cardio |
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infinity21  Canada. September 28 2011 14:42. Posts 6262 | Profile Blog # |
| What is a good routine to go on while cutting? I know I can't continue doing 5x5 because my body can't recover fast enough. Looking for something to do for ~8 weeks so nothing that requires a big deload would be best. Last edit: 2011-09-28 15:19:34 |
| | sMi.infinity -- Official Entusman #21! Check my profile for a list of guides. Latest: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215196 |
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| glurio Germany. September 28 2011 21:29. Posts 566 | Profile # |
Max OT is good for cutting.
But why would you cut? You're still too small for cutting. |
| | Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right. - Henry Ford |
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| infinity21 Canada. September 29 2011 00:59. Posts 6262 | Profile Blog # |
| Well I've gained nearly 10 lb since I started. My lowest point 163 in week 2 because I was doing calorie cycling and 172 as of this morning. I expect to be around 180 by the end of the 12 weeks so I don't think I'd be that small. And also, the time coincides with final exams so I want a routine that takes less time to do. I'd imagine a routine made for cutting has less volume since recovery is negatively affected. |
| | sMi.infinity -- Official Entusman #21! Check my profile for a list of guides. Latest: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215196 |
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| glurio Germany. September 29 2011 02:17. Posts 566 | Profile # |
Oh well you're weight gain seems to be succesful, i thought you still would be as skinny as the last picture you took.
Well i'd keep low reps heavy weight. Just look at some of those programs in the OP, after Starting Strength. Cut down on accessory movements if you don't think you can recover. |
| | Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right. - Henry Ford |
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| infinity21 Canada. September 29 2011 03:44. Posts 6262 | Profile Blog # |
Thanks. I think I look the same but I'll try to take some pics for comparison since the scale is telling me otherwise. Trying to eat 3k calories a day but it's not easy when I get distracted and don't eat my first meal until 4 pm. I end up having to eat at midnight which is affecting my sleep. It's a vicious cycle 
Right now I'm thinking of working out 2 times a week with something like:
A:
Squat, Press, Chin-up
B:
DL, Bench, Chin-up
And doing reverse pyramid that I read on leangains. If I work pretty close to failure and don't eat a lot on my rest days, I don't think doing 3+ sets at 90%+ 1RM 3 times a week would be possible. I'll probably deload and get back on a higher volume training once exams finish, maybe 3x5 or keep going with 5x5 until I stall. I just need something to let me keep progressing even if I can only work out 2 times a week.
Really interested to see how much I'll get out of my 12 weeks of SL. I actually posted my progress earlier but I want to wait until the end of the 12 weeks to post my progression and pics. I really think I'll be able to reach 305 DL before the end! |
| | sMi.infinity -- Official Entusman #21! Check my profile for a list of guides. Latest: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215196 |
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| glurio Germany. September 29 2011 04:45. Posts 566 | Profile # |
Yes, put up some pictures.
Well i trained 4-5 times a week high volume while cutting, didn't have any problems with recovery. You won't make new PRs and some lifts go down. And you won't progress on a diet, training while dieting = keeping as much muscle mass as possible. Since you're not in an anabolic state, you won't build muscle.
To be honest it's pretty much try and do what works for you. If you lose weight to quickly, lifts go down a lot, you know somethings wrong. |
| | Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right. - Henry Ford |
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| glurio Germany. October 31 2011 02:55. Posts 566 | Profile # |
So right now im doing
Mo: Upper (Strength 3-5 reps on big lifts 6-8 on everything else)
Tue: Lower (Hypertrophy 8-12 on everything)
We: Rest
Thur: Upper (Hypertrophy)
Fri: Lower (Strength)
Weekend off
While i'm quite happy with my gains, my workouts take forever so im thinking:
Mo: Strength Upper
Tue: Strength Lower
We: Off
Thur: Size Chest/Back/Calves
Fri: Size Arms/Shoulders
Weekends off
Basically took the workout from here and added calves http://plyo.tumblr.com/
This would probably shorten my workouts quite a bit. And emphasize upper body a bit more. (which is always good)
Any thoughts on this? |
| | Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right. - Henry Ford |
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| eshlow United States. October 31 2011 03:46. Posts 5004 | Profile # |
Well, obviously I know you have some pretty good experience with training so it seems OK on the surface.
It depends on what your goals are. If your workout routine (and exercises) align towards your goals then that's definitely fine. You didn't list then so I have no clue if they do or not. |
| | Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength |
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| Sneakyz Sweden. October 31 2011 03:54. Posts 2323 | Profile # |
Are you limited to 4 days a week? Otherwise your program seems pretty similar to Layne Norton's:
Day 1: Upper Body Power
Day 2: Lower Body Power
Day 3: Rest
Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy
Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy
Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy
Day 7: Rest
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| | I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds. |
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| glurio Germany. October 31 2011 04:29. Posts 566 | Profile # |
Limited to 4 days, yes.
Well my goal still is a fitness model-esque physique. The question really is, will my legs continue to grow when i only train them for strength once a week?
Right now my workouts take 2 hours sometimes, which is just too long, i'm not really sure if i really need to spend this much time in the gym, hardly anyone else does. (And certainly no one from this forum)
I don't care much about strength other than it's super fun to lift heavy stuff.
Basically i fell like my weak points at this point are chest and arms.
In my current workout i got BB Curls 4x12 and French Press 4x12 on the upper body days after 3 push and 3 pull exercises. |
| | Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right. - Henry Ford |
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| Mortal November 07 2011 17:56. Posts 2413 | Profile Blog # |
| Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL. |
| | The universe created an audience for itself. |
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| Logros Netherlands. November 07 2011 18:48. Posts 9728 | Profile # |
On November 07 2011 17:56 Mortal wrote:
Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
I'd be interested to know why you think it's garbage, as a lot of people have made huge gains with it. |
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| Mortal November 07 2011 19:06. Posts 2413 | Profile Blog # |
On November 07 2011 18:48 Logros wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 17:56 Mortal wrote:
Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
I'd be interested to know why you think it's garbage, as a lot of people have made huge gains with it.
I think it's decent if you're a straight up 100% know nothing about lifting novice, but it can be greatly improved. Especially if you're eating a relatively normal diet and don't know how to control your insulin and growth. However, if a lot of people follow the "eat a lot and do SS" they gain massive amounts of body fat along the way and don't know how to break their plateaus.
There are also a lot of misconceptions about it like the fact that doing squats (which SS has you do a lot of) magically releases extra testosterone into your system, among other things.
Maybe "garbage" was heavy-handed, but I believe it to be over-followed. |
| | The universe created an audience for itself. |
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| eshlow United States. November 08 2011 02:52. Posts 5004 | Profile # |
On November 07 2011 19:06 Mortal wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 18:48 Logros wrote:
On November 07 2011 17:56 Mortal wrote:
Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
I'd be interested to know why you think it's garbage, as a lot of people have made huge gains with it.
I think it's decent if you're a straight up 100% know nothing about lifting novice, but it can be greatly improved. Especially if you're eating a relatively normal diet and don't know how to control your insulin and growth. However, if a lot of people follow the "eat a lot and do SS" they gain massive amounts of body fat along the way and don't know how to break their plateaus. There are also a lot of misconceptions about it like the fact that doing squats (which SS has you do a lot of) magically releases extra testosterone into your system, among other things. Maybe "garbage" was heavy-handed, but I believe it to be over-followed.
1. It can be greatly improved?
The funny thing is I always hear claims about stuff like this yet I've never actually seen a proposed program that beats it out for gains in lean mass. If you have some proof of this (even anecdotal is fine comparisons) I'd be willing to consider adding something to OP.
Only thing I've seen come close is StrongLifts or possibly some of the HST or other highly used programs.
These named programs are used for a reason... which is because they work. And they work far better than the other kind of crap that most people throw together.
2. No misconceptions in this OP.Last edit: 2011-11-08 02:52:42 |
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| Mortal November 08 2011 06:12. Posts 2413 | Profile Blog # |
On November 08 2011 02:52 eshlow wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 19:06 Mortal wrote:
On November 07 2011 18:48 Logros wrote:
On November 07 2011 17:56 Mortal wrote:
Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
I'd be interested to know why you think it's garbage, as a lot of people have made huge gains with it.
I think it's decent if you're a straight up 100% know nothing about lifting novice, but it can be greatly improved. Especially if you're eating a relatively normal diet and don't know how to control your insulin and growth. However, if a lot of people follow the "eat a lot and do SS" they gain massive amounts of body fat along the way and don't know how to break their plateaus. There are also a lot of misconceptions about it like the fact that doing squats (which SS has you do a lot of) magically releases extra testosterone into your system, among other things. Maybe "garbage" was heavy-handed, but I believe it to be over-followed.
1. It can be greatly improved? The funny thing is I always hear claims about stuff like this yet I've never actually seen a proposed program that beats it out for gains in lean mass. If you have some proof of this (even anecdotal is fine comparisons) I'd be willing to consider adding something to OP. Only thing I've seen come close is StrongLifts or possibly some of the HST or other highly used programs. These named programs are used for a reason... which is because they work. And they work far better than the other kind of crap that most people throw together. 2. No misconceptions in this OP.
1. Yes it did not work for me personally nor for 3 of my friends that I helped get them working out. For me I worked out for about 6 months on almost exclusively SS, eating properly, getting proper rest, and I even cycles creatine for a time until I realized I was allergic to it (only presented in higher doses as I progressed). The gains that I had weren't in line with the gains I had from SL, nor from a semi-altered version of SL. I don't think that EVERY body can train the same way, and mine was clearly one (of the *possibly* many) exceptions.
2. I never said there were any misconceptions in your OP. All I meant was that there are those people that think squats will help them build upper body because of hormone releases, which is just not the case. I hone in on that specific example because it's one of the most repeated and alluded to.
Edit- I guess my other problem w/ SS other than my low gains is the fact that things like upper back are completely neglected. While power cleans are included (and chin-ups are optional?), the technical skill needed to properly do a power clean isn't even close to in the cards for someone new to lifting. I think at the very least chin-ups should be mandatory and rows incorporated. BB rows > cleans definitely for beginners and even for some intermediate lifters that don't have the discipline to learn proper cleans.Last edit: 2011-11-08 06:47:56 |
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| eshlow United States. November 08 2011 08:17. Posts 5004 | Profile # |
On November 08 2011 06:12 Mortal wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 02:52 eshlow wrote:
On November 07 2011 19:06 Mortal wrote:
On November 07 2011 18:48 Logros wrote:
On November 07 2011 17:56 Mortal wrote:
Didn't know the fitness board existed until just now. Was actually about to post a similar guide, although I personally believe SS to be a load of garbage, a lot of people swear by it. Glad to see this on TL.
I'd be interested to know why you think it's garbage, as a lot of people have made huge gains with it.
I think it's decent if you're a straight up 100% know nothing about lifting novice, but it can be greatly improved. Especially if you're eating a relatively normal diet and don't know how to control your insulin and growth. However, if a lot of people follow the "eat a lot and do SS" they gain massive amounts of body fat along the way and don't know how to break their plateaus. There are also a lot of misconceptions about it like the fact that doing squats (which SS has you do a lot of) magically releases extra testosterone into your system, among other things. Maybe "garbage" was heavy-handed, but I believe it to be over-followed.
1. It can be greatly improved? The funny thing is I always hear claims about stuff like this yet I've never actually seen a proposed program that beats it out for gains in lean mass. If you have some proof of this (even anecdotal is fine comparisons) I'd be willing to consider adding something to OP. Only thing I've seen come close is StrongLifts or possibly some of the HST or other highly used programs. These named programs are used for a reason... which is because they work. And they work far better than the other kind of crap that most people throw together. 2. No misconceptions in this OP.
1. Yes it did not work for me personally nor for 3 of my friends that I helped get them working out. For me I worked out for about 6 months on almost exclusively SS, eating properly, getting proper rest, and I even cycles creatine for a time until I realized I was allergic to it (only presented in higher doses as I progressed). The gains that I had weren't in line with the gains I had from SL, nor from a semi-altered version of SL. I don't think that EVERY body can train the same way, and mine was clearly one (of the *possibly* many) exceptions. 2. I never said there were any misconceptions in your OP. All I meant was that there are those people that think squats will help them build upper body because of hormone releases, which is just not the case. I hone in on that specific example because it's one of the most repeated and alluded to. Edit- I guess my other problem w/ SS other than my low gains is the fact that things like upper back are completely neglected. While power cleans are included (and chin-ups are optional?), the technical skill needed to properly do a power clean isn't even close to in the cards for someone new to lifting. I think at the very least chin-ups should be mandatory and rows incorporated. BB rows > cleans definitely for beginners and even for some intermediate lifters that don't have the discipline to learn proper cleans.
1. I find that hard to believe you didn't gain significant amounts of muscle mass with all of that dialed in. Every relatively skinny person I know who has done it "right" has gotten their squat/dl/etc. above 1.25 or 1.5x bodyweight squat and put on lots of lean tissues.
I'd have to see your starting numbers, end numbers, height, weight, before and after photos,etc.
2a. That's why the book has a whole section devoted to teaching power cleans. There's nothing wrong with teaching technical skills to new people; however, if they're doing it without guidance then that may be a bad thing.
I think if you're too lazy to buy the book then chins or rows are acceptable to substitute, but don't think that you get the same stimulus as with power cleans.
2b. Press, if done correctly, works back. As does DL. Bench works scap retractors, Power clean works back. All of these exercises if performed correctly work everything together.
You don't see Olympic lifters doing any back specific work yet their backs are huge because they do DL/C&J/snatch/jerks/etc. Same concept.
This is not to say I am anti-back work. I do think there is enough in the beginner programs like SS/SL5x5/etc. to keep the shoulder girdle balance IFFF correct technique is adhered to.Last edit: 2011-11-08 08:19:47 |
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| kastoob Australia. January 05 2012 11:56. Posts 144 | Profile # |
Do you guys have any objections to steady cardio for general health and wellness?
I have been doing starting strength and am now doing advanced novice, my lifts (5reps) are as follows:
Squat: 65kg
Overhead: 35kg
Bench: 50kg
Deadlift: 70kg(feels kinda easy, I reduced weight when I took two weeks off for final year exams.)
My bodyweight last time i checked was 57kg, ( I have a suspicion I lost weight over Christmas and new years, though I haven't checked), and I'm very short (I can't remember measurements I think I'm in 160cm's)
My workouts typically last for up to an hour and a quarter, but I want to cut that time down to like 40mins, mainly because I am going to do an honours year in university, and from what I hear there's a lot of study involved, plus travel +getting enough sleep eats into my time.
I eat mainly paleo +low fat flavoured milk (on lifting days as post workout, http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/milk-as-an-effective-post-exercise-rehydration-drink.html) + white potatoes + rice(I try to keep rice to a minimum but I am Indian and live with my parents, so intake of some rice is inevitable). I also do a leangains fasted morning training - diet timing(essentially it is: intermittent fasting + lifting kinda fasted in the morning with BCAAs)
more info should be: leangains.com
Also I ask about cardio because I am under the impression it has some health benefits, I am not overweight, I have a "four pack"/flat belly (healthwise is a six pack ideal?)
I am thinking weights and cardio on alternating days, take Sunday off, cardio to 30mins, weights to 40mins(try to maintain my strength but keep rest times between sets to 2mins)
If you guys think that strength training has more benefits in terms of general health (I have no desire of becoming a specialised athlete), then a cardio-weights routine, then I shall continue on with advanced novice -> Texas method and try to wake up earlier.
EDIT: Maybe I should simply just say: I would like to optimise brain function, like concentration etc, and I want to reduce fatigue (which I sometimes get on heavy lifting (deadlift) days), while spending as little time as necessary to maintain my strength. I know sleep + proper diet should fix those but I keep getting told that regular cardio should help me sleep better, concentrate better and feel more energetic (which I think should help me out in my studies, fat loss is not a concern for me)Last edit: 2012-01-05 13:11:23 |
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