The nutritional guidelines that many people from the previous TL Health and Fitness thread recommend is the Paleolithic diet.
Despite what you may have heard about the Paleo diet, it is neither low carbohydrate or high carbohydrate. It can be either depending on how many carbohydrates you eat from fruits, vegetables, and other safe starches (such as sweet potatoes).
Instead, the Paleo diet focuses specifically on inclusion of high quality and nutrient rich foods upon which we evolved: fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meat, birds, fish, eggs.
Dairy, grains, and legumes are excluded specifically because of potential detrimental aspects that these foods may on our gastroinstestinal system and subsequently the rest of our organ systems by proxy.
As an aside my personal opinion is that dairy is fine as long as you are not lactose intolerant.
Grains and legumes are touted by the government as healthy even though there is little evidence supporting these statements especially regarding fiber and nutrients as fruits and vegetables provide more of each and are healthier. Many people have heard of Celiac's disease which is characterized by chronic inflammation of the intestinal tract due to gluten, a protein in wheat and many other grains.
It was thought that in the absence of Celiac's there seemed to be little evidence to the detrimental effect of grains. However, that is changing as recent research into suggests that gluten sensitivity may exist in upwards of 2/3rds of the population. Another. In particular, gliadin protein seems to specifically stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies against transglutaminase which is a protein in all cells within the body.
Thus, grains may contribute to the pathogenesis of many of the so-called disease of civilizations which include:
1. neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and the severity of Huntington's 2. Cardiovascular disease which includes heart disease, atherosclerosis, peripheral vascular disease, stroke 3. Pulmonary disease asthma, COPD, etc. 4. Metabolic disease which includes diabetes 1 and 2, metabolic syndrome, osteoporosis 5. Gastrointestinal disease such as Celiac's, Crohn's, IBS, Colitis, etc. 6. Organ issues such as kidney, liver, etc. 7. Autoimmune such as rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, ALS, SLE, dermatitis, etc. 8. And others such as cancer, depression, obesity, acne, etc.
Doc who "cured" her 2nd degree multiple sclerosis: + Show Spoiler +
There are several other factors involved in the pathogenesis of many of these diseases that can be obtained from diet besides (1) gluten/grains such as (2) excessive amounts of carbohydrates especially fructose, (3) excessive intake of omega 6 oils throwing off O6:O3 balance, and (4) trans fats.
These 4 dietary factors comprise most of the problems with the modern diet.
Additionally, there are other factors to consider beyond diet:
1. High stress all the time. Stress increases insulin resistance, and production of cortisol (which decreases inflammation in short term but chronically there's a lot of negatives). 2. Lack of sleep. Increases insulin resistance, and inflammation. 3. Lack of exercise (exercise increases insulin sensitivity among other things). 4. Lack of vitamin D (potent anti-inflammatory, immune system modulator, etc.)
On December 21 2011 10:38 goose114 wrote: I just wanted to offer up a few of things that you might find interesting that I didn't see mentioned in the OP.
The videos linked in the OP, Big Fat Fiasco, were the precursor to the documentary Fat Head, which is available on Netflix and Hulu, and expands upon the research presented in the YouTube videos. There is also a blog at http://www.fathead-movie.com that is updated pretty regularly with interesting material.
I saw someone else mentioned Gary Taubes in the thread. His books are well regarded, but I haven't read them; however, I do read some of the things he publishes online at http://garytaubes.com.
Finally, this lecture by Dr. Robert Lustig goes into very in-depth and well-researched detail about the damage caused by sugar.
Paleo for those with diseases, the athletes, and the healthy
As stated before, Paleo is a QUALITY OF FOODS diet. It is neither low carb or high carb; it can be either depending on what the health issues someone is having and/or the activities that they under take.
The plant to animal ratios of our ancesters and studies on hunter gatherers suggest "the animal-derived calorie percentage ranges from 25% in the Gwi people of southern Africa, to 99% in Alaskan Nunamiut. [...] The mean diet among modern hunter-gatherer societies is estimated to consist of 64–68% of animal calories and 32–36% of plant calories."
[...]
In modern hunter-gatherer diets, dietary protein is characteristically elevated (19–35% of energy) at the expense of carbohydrate (22–40% of energy)
2000 kcal diet that's:
95g-175g of protein (hmmm... seems eeriely familiar to around .75-1g/lbs that people recommend for ATHLETIC populations... as you know hunter gatherers actually have to move around to get their food and hunt...). And they didn't have chronic kidney disease either!
110g-200g of carbohydrates -- which is not even low carb at all. This is what moderate carbohydrates look like, unless you are competing in an endurance sport which you may need upwards of 250g+ of carbs (which is 50% carbs). Low carb is <100g and ketogenic IIRC is <40-50 carbs or thereabouts.
It's even noted in populations where if they didn't have any type of starch sources such as potatoes that even if they had meats they would say they were starving.
In general, low carbohydrate or ketogenis type diets tend to very strongly influence weight loss and improve various diseases. They also have a strong neuroprotective effect because ketone bodies can be used as energy in the brain in the absence of glucose because of systemic insulin resistance.
1. In regards to obesity/overweight to get the quickest/best results, it is recommended to go on a lower carbohydrate diet (typically <125g of carbohydrates from any source) per day and get the rest of calories from protein, animal fats, or coconut/avocadoes/nuts.
2. In regards to athletes, the carbohydrate level can be increased through greater consumption of dietary carbohydrates in fruits, vegetables.
3. In regards to healthy living in otherwise disease free individuals -- low or no carbohydrate diets are not recommended. This is covered in depth with analysis in this post if you want to know the reasons why.
See this post by Kurt Harris for more details on some of the recommendations above (independently came to it seems as well).
Here are two very excellent links detailing various things. Please read!!
On October 20 2011 06:44 flare8 wrote: I've got a big collection/overview of scientific studies (and some anthropology) about health and disease. Much of it is inspired by 'paleo' writers, or people close such as weston price etc. Please have a look if you're technically minded:
>> Logging your food is one of the better ways analyze the quality and quantity of your nutrition.
If you are having a hard time gaining or losing weight in particular, or poor health and looking to eat healthier then doing this is a very good idea. It doesn't matter when you eat so much as what you eat.
Oh wow I was about to post Mark's website haha, glad there's a thread for this on TL : ) I've always tried to get Paleo right, and am trying again, so hard to drop rice but I've dropped wheat long ago
SlayerS Hwaiting! : )
eshlow United States. September 21 2011 11:09. Posts 5012
On September 21 2011 10:58 Dalguno wrote: www.marksdailyapple.com is a pretty good site that I've used in the past. Mark Sisson seems to know what's up.
It's already in the sticky but it's in the spoiler. I will unspoiler the spoiler at the bottom since it contains a lot of links.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
RosaParksStoleMySeat Japan. September 21 2011 14:25. Posts 914
I'm on a semi-paleo diet right now--that is, if the term "semi-paleo" makes any sense. I'm trying to gain weight so a full paleo diet would be far too expensive and far too difficult to maintain, but my general staples are these:
Proteins:
Chicken Salmon Beef Eggs Pork
Carbs:
White rice Sugary cereal (only post workout) Gluten-free oats (available on iHerb!) White potatoes Sweet potatoes
These +++milk (2 liters/day)
As I said before, I can't do full paleo due to economic and time constraints. But, this seems to be working for me.
eshlow United States. September 21 2011 22:55. Posts 5012
On September 21 2011 22:55 eshlow wrote: ^^ I have to note that cereals are absolute no-nos on Paleo.
But otherwise, it looks pretty good.
(Also, white rice is not technically paleo either... not sure about gluten free oats)
Cereals may be absolute no-nos on paleo, but they are absolutely yes-yes in deliciousness :D. Plus it's only a couple of bowls a week, just post workout.
Oats are generally not considered a standard paleo food, but as we know, these staples like oatmeal, rice, soy, bread, pasta, etc. exist on a continuum of "maybe not so bad" to "do not eat." I consider rice and oats to be more towards the "maybe not so bad" side, while the breads, pastas, and cereals (of course) to be more towards the "do not eat" one.
I would probably be better off eating some fruit post workout, but it's like $2.50 for a single piece of fruit here.. I'm already spending $15-$20/day on food, not even counting when I go out with my girlfriend or something. Why are you so expensive Japan .
Biochemist United States. September 21 2011 23:55. Posts 1008
What's great about paleo compared to other diets is that you can eat as much as you want... of the right stuff.
Many diets ask you to restrict your calories, saying that it's a simple formula of [calories consumed - calories spent = weight loss] if negative. Unfortunately for math diet buffs, the body does not work like a calculator, and is a complex system of reactions and interactions.
For example, a woman on full paleo will lose tons of weight and become lean on a 2200 calorie Paleo diet. Most diets that women have to follow will try to get them below 1500 calories if they can. (weight watchers, for example)
For people that are looking for an interesting, well researched book by a scientific journalist can read Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. It is not exactly paleo but very close, and explains very well how our modern society came to believe that carbs are awesome and fat is satan. If you shop on amazon, you will see that book ordered along with Robb Wolf's book.
Also, it's important to note that although the diet has a meat content, you can't just eat any meats. In the paleo books, they recommend lean meats because the quality of the fats in most red meats from farm animals is very poor and contains several toxins and the wrong kinds of fats. The reason for this is that farm animals are fed grains, which makes them sick. Thus, go for lean cuts or extra lean ground beef.
You can, however, eat the fats from any and all wild game, wild fish, or grass fed beef and cows. The quality of the fats in these meats is exceptional, and has the correct balance of omega 3, 6s etc. (Yes, grass fed cows have omega 3 in their fat, not just fish)
Unfortunately, you must understand that you are either doing paleo, or you are not doing paleo. There is no 50%, or even 90% Paleo. If you eat any type of grains or dairy, you are damaging your system, even if it's once every two weeks. If you follow the Paleo diet correctly, you won't even want to eat grains because you will feel like shit afterwards. You will like feel bloated and crash after eating due to an insulin spike.
Last edit: 2011-09-22 00:03:06
Twisted Netherlands. September 22 2011 00:00. Posts 11896
Unfortunately, you must understand that you are either doing paleo, or you are not doing paleo. There is no 50%, or even 90% Paleo.
You can definitely do it on a 80-90% paleo. If you have one day in the week where you let loose and eat cake or whatever it's no problem. It's the daily intake that matters, just one day of cheating doesn't change much in your overall long-term metabolism.
In any case, cutting carbs (compared to the regular Western diet) is always a good thing. If you do just that (and eat the right fats according to paleo) you're already making a lot of progress
Last edit: 2011-09-22 00:05:32
AoN.DimSum United States. September 22 2011 00:23. Posts 2806
I'm trying to get back on paleo, that feeling of being bloated and sleepiness was exactly what happened when I ate grains again.
by my idol krokkis : "U better hope Finland wont have WCG next year and that I wont gain shitloads of skill, cause then I will wash ur mouth with soap, little man."
Orpheos United States. September 22 2011 01:20. Posts 1337
I was wondering if anyone can suggest something naturally savory/salty to go with eggs over breakfast. hopefully somehting that cooks quickly or is eaten raw. I really dont like dumping salt on eggs but Id like to have some flavor to start out my day
also are cashews a good nut to snack on? they are my favs
Last edit: 2011-09-22 01:22:05
decafchicken United States. September 22 2011 02:58. Posts 15139
I usually put salt/hot sauce on my eggs in the morning. I believe eshlow has a study somewhere from the megathread that sodium intake isn't much of a concern in healthy people.
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
Orpheos United States. September 22 2011 03:04. Posts 1337
On September 22 2011 02:58 decafchicken wrote: I usually put salt/hot sauce on my eggs in the morning. I believe eshlow has a study somewhere from the megathread that sodium intake isn't much of a concern in healthy people.
yea i just dont like the taste of pure salt on eggs >_<
emperorchampion Canada. September 22 2011 03:21. Posts 4122
On September 22 2011 01:20 Orpheos wrote: I was wondering if anyone can suggest something naturally savory/salty to go with eggs over breakfast. hopefully somehting that cooks quickly or is eaten raw. I really dont like dumping salt on eggs but Id like to have some flavor to start out my day
also are cashews a good nut to snack on? they are my favs
Cashews are nuts, so it's good!
edit: as opposed to legumes, which are not Paleo.
Last edit: 2011-09-22 03:22:30
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
Twisted Netherlands. September 22 2011 04:25. Posts 11896
On September 22 2011 01:20 Orpheos wrote: I was wondering if anyone can suggest something naturally savory/salty to go with eggs over breakfast. hopefully somehting that cooks quickly or is eaten raw. I really dont like dumping salt on eggs but Id like to have some flavor to start out my day
Bacon.
Everything tastes better with bacon.
Orpheos United States. September 22 2011 04:29. Posts 1337
On September 22 2011 01:20 Orpheos wrote: I was wondering if anyone can suggest something naturally savory/salty to go with eggs over breakfast. hopefully somehting that cooks quickly or is eaten raw. I really dont like dumping salt on eggs but Id like to have some flavor to start out my day
Bacon.
Everything tastes better with bacon.
this is extremely true. but bacon so expensive >_<
decafchicken United States. September 22 2011 05:21. Posts 15139
On September 22 2011 01:20 Orpheos wrote: I was wondering if anyone can suggest something naturally savory/salty to go with eggs over breakfast. hopefully somehting that cooks quickly or is eaten raw. I really dont like dumping salt on eggs but Id like to have some flavor to start out my day
Bacon.
Everything tastes better with bacon.
this is extremely true. but bacon so expensive >_<
3-4$ a pound? i usually put 1-2 slices in my eggs in the morning.
Also, just smashed a 2/3 pound burger (no bun) of pasture raised beef...NOM NOM NOM
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
Liquid`Nazgul Administrator September 22 2011 06:27.
I follow paleo to some extent. I try to keep things relatively easy for myself. For example I eat no more sweets and have replaced all my snacks (previously chips) with nuts and pure chocolate. By doing this I feel like I give up nothing in my life and it's really easy to commit to.
I don't eat bread anymore at home, but if I go to out for dinner to a restaurant or something I'll still eat it if it's on the table. My breakfast always used to be bread now I'm mostly eating egg+something. Still can't say no to a glass of milk. No more rice/potatoes at dinner at home, but I don't mind eating fries at a restaurant occasionally.
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