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| Conquerer67 United States. November 03 2011 08:06. Posts 605 | Profile # |
| You should change the hotkey for arc shield to something besides C. There is currently an overlap with chronoboost. |
| | I hate when people compare SC2 and rochambeu. One race isn't fucking supposed to counter another one. | Protoss isn't OP. Their units on the other hand.... |
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| gulden Germany. November 03 2011 08:08. Posts 205 | Profile # |
awesome work on 0.87! looking forward to the EU patch!
not sure, if it's fixed in the new version, but when I select a HotS unit, it's name is "Button/Unit/<Name>" |
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| YRUSirius November 03 2011 08:21. Posts 4 | Profile # |
As a protoss I'm using custom hotkeys for unit production in production facilities ("a" for zealot, "s" for sentry, "d" for stalker in Gateway for example). This custom "a" hotkey for unit production overlaps with the new attack ability granted by the arc shield.
Maybe there is a way both hotkeys could coexist? Make the attack for buildings a new attack ability just like the old ability but with another name? So that the attack ability of the building can have it's own hotkey, the normal attack ability (which nearly every unit has - production buildings don't have the attack ability in WoL) can have the "a" hotkey and unit production facilities can have their "a" hotkey?
-YRUSirius |
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| Leargle United States. November 03 2011 09:02. Posts 173 | Profile # |
Looking at your chart, just got a little feedback for the guessed values.
From what we know about the replicant, it is for sure 4 food. Also, based on what Day[9] said, it's build time was "fairly quick."
On the oracle, entomb was never shown as covering more than 5 mineral patches, and in the current mod it covers all 8.
The tempest is 6 food, fitting with the capital ship role.
Here's just some opinions/thoughts from a masters player...
1. Warhound feels too weak, too expensive. If it does fit in with the golaith-like role, 150/100 would make more sense for cost than 200/150. Also, it's ground dps is significantly lower than that of an unsieged tank. This, to me, is completely illogical. More expensive, lower general use. The attack feels like it needs to be closer to 1.0-1.05.
2. Baneling burrow move is definitely too fast. In your chart it says it's 1.5, but when I played against it, splitting worked exactly the same as it does with normal speed banes. I believe it's move speed scales similarly to how the roach and infesotrs' burrow moves do.
3. Shredder build time might be slightly too fast. Would guess closer to 35.
Aside from that, great mod! Balance is shaky, but that isn't really your fault ^^ |
| | Maphack supply depot overlord |
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| monkh United Kingdom. November 03 2011 09:59. Posts 513 | Profile Blog # |
| Adrenaline Glands isnt suppost to be removed is it? |
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| Asday United Kingdom. November 04 2011 07:04. Posts 387 | Profile # |
Played 086 against a bro.
There are NO fucking hotkeys. This is REALLY simple to just implement from the start of the map, why isn't it there?
All the names 'n' things are just references.
Shredders give you 25 75 when they undeploy.
Swarm hosts need to be below roaches, lings, everything, etc., in the selected unit list thing, because you can't a-move a control group with swarm hosts in them, without first tabbing.
EDIT: Oh yeah, other people are saying it too, but Adrenal's gone for no reason, and banelings are too fast underground. Burrowed banelings do not benefit from the speed upgrade.
User was warned for this postLast edit: 2011-11-04 07:06:59 |
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| darglein Germany. November 04 2011 07:13. Posts 89 | Profile # |
| i think the thor is 8 supply. because its a kind of mothership, even more expensive and mothershop has already 8. |
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 ThisGS Germany. November 04 2011 07:27. Posts 255 | Profile # |
On November 04 2011 07:13 darglein wrote:
i think the thor is 8 supply. because its a kind of mothership, even more expensive and mothershop has already 8.
mothership was 6 |
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| birdkicker United States. November 04 2011 07:49. Posts 701 | Profile Blog # |
| lol the oracle is so broken... |
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| RastaMonsta November 04 2011 08:24. Posts 304 | Profile # |
| this is fun but, we have to wait for the beta to really see whatsup |
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| darglein Germany. November 04 2011 08:37. Posts 89 | Profile # |
On November 04 2011 07:27 ThisGS wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 07:13 darglein wrote:
i think the thor is 8 supply. because its a kind of mothership, even more expensive and mothershop has already 8.
mothership was 6
liquipedia says 8 :DLast edit: 2011-11-04 08:37:36 |
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| domovoi United States. November 04 2011 10:50. Posts 1474 | Profile # |
Thanks for this, this is what I've heard and this is what it looks so I'm glad you are able to confirm this further.
I'm curious though as to what the actual AoE was in the test however, one person said it covered all mineral patches but I'm not too sure since the HotS preview shows it missing 3 mineral patches. However Browder said it would cost the player around 500 minerals, which means it must cover more than the 5 that were shown since each mineral gives 100 minerals per minute yet entomb only lasts 45 seconds, meaning a full entomb with 5 minerals would only cost them 375 minerals not 500. I think it might cover 7 minerals with a 4 AoE range because that equates to 525 minerals lost (700 * 0.45) if the opponent does nothing about it, but it would be great to have some confirmation on this.
Sorry for not getting to this sooner, and I noticed you changed the AoE in the most recent patch. It was definitely possible and fairly easy to hit all 8 patches. So, it should be just enough to cover all 8 patches, not much bigger than that. Whoever filmed the demo video was a noob.  Last edit: 2011-11-04 10:52:17 |
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| Hider Denmark. November 04 2011 11:09. Posts 3258 | Profile Blog # |
On November 02 2011 23:40 XenoX101 wrote:New Patch up! Lots of new things such as Arc Shield no longer working on Pylons & Assimilators, Preordain now working fully and Entomb being reworked with minerals now being attackable. I have written an explanation for some of the big changes on reddit but will cross-post the text here if you're interested along with the patch notes. See below. Patch Notes 0.87- Preordain works properly on all except hatcheries due to larva use - Preordain no longer gives full vision and is no longer permanent - Arc Shield no longer works on pylons and assimilators - Recall now just like the mothership (nearly instant) - Entomb slightly reworked - Entomb now has 4 AoE range (still uncertain as to exact range, but think that it doesnt cover all minerals) - Entomb mineral blocks are owned by player casting them (give slight vision) - Entombed minerals no longer disappear from minimap - Thor damage now displays correctly, is affected by upgrades - Infernal preigniter now affects battle hellions - Blinding cloud fixed to affect all players - Now all playable 2v2 - MULE now has timed life on replication - Arc Shield and Recall hotkeys now S and R respectively - Phase Shift on gas now blocks mining - Phase Shift on turrets, cannons, spine&spore now stops weapons - Warhound now costs 150/75 - Shredder now costs 150/150 - Swarm Host now 40s build time - Swarm Host now regenerates cooldown when unburrowed - Burrowed Banelings no longer benefit from centrifugal hooks - Battle hellions are now light + Show Spoiler +The most notable is that Arc Shield no longer works on pylons or assimilators, early game arc shield rushes were seen as game-breaking by a number of people and Blizzard have stated that they didn't intend for the ability to be used offensively, so I concluded that this would be the best course of action. Secondly Entomb now casts barriers under that person's control and has 1 less AoE. The control change means they can be attack moved by any unit of the opponent's. This was apparently the real way it functioned at BlizzCon, despite the drones never attacking the minerals in the teaser videos (which is what led me to believe they were neutral). The AoE change is to be more consistent with the teaser that shows slightly less than all 8 minerals blocked Thirdly Preordain now works against all buildings except for hatcheries due to their larva, with 3 range as I was recently told its range is quite short. However I also believe there may be some balance issues with having full view of a hatcheries' production cycle for 2 minutes. It also no longer provides vision of anything but the building itself and times out appropriately when the preordain finishes. But the biggest thing about this change is that with this spell done the map has 100% of the abilities and units from the teaser in the game. This means that the 'only' updates that need to be made are balance-related with the values that we don't know for sure. Here is a current spreadsheet on how similar the current unit stats are to the real HotS ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yRArO.png)
Someone stated that the range of battle hellions were 4, which I think is pretyt accurate (its most likely not 2.5). In the video from blizzcon the battle hellions aren't attack moving (I think). They are being moved closer to the targets to increase their line (splash) damage. |
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 avilo United States. November 04 2011 11:14. Posts 3245 | Profile Blog # |
Eh, so looks like you are also doing some balance adjustments as well to the units. Might help give blizzard current feedback on these units some, but you might as well remove the shredder from the game. 150/150 no one will ever build them, they were already terrible in the first place (contrary to forum warriors whining).
Might wanna fix the battle hellion up more in this mod too, blue flame didn't affect it b4 (guess u fixed that tho?) and it's not supposed to be armored. That defeats the point of having hellions with mech, as blink stalkers would get bonus damage against them, as well as immortals, etc. Keep it light.Last edit: 2011-11-04 11:15:57 |
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| avilo United States. November 04 2011 11:19. Posts 3245 | Profile Blog # |
On November 02 2011 10:44 XenoX101 wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 09:51 avilo wrote:
Battle hellions are not supposed to change to armored in battle hellion form. Blizzard never said they changed armor type, so i'd keep them light.
And also, just remove the arc shield thing from this or put it on twilight tech or some shit, because it's fundamentally broken even with gateway pre-req, and people actually wanna try out the game without dying in less than 2 minutes (even faster than a 6 pool you can die to this thing lol).
I don't think it makes much sense that the Battle Hellion wouldn't be armored, since it gains those physical shields, has more health and is meant to be sturdier. I would be very surprised if Blizzard didn't make this have any armor or be an armored unit, but if anyone can confirm whether it is armored or light that would be the best. As for arc shield, I haven't yet seen this issue occur but this is something I may take the liberty to change outside of the existing HotS balance if I can see conclusive evidence that assimilator rushes can't be stopped without blind countering. I would probably change it to core tech though rather than twilight since its closer to Blizzard's balance and is in line with what seems to be its purpose of early game defense (it can stop numerous early game rushes etc).
Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 10:29 domovoi wrote:
I don't know how you implemented entomb in this mod (haven't had time to test it), but some of the comments are describing it wrong.
The shields do not have shared hp. They should each have 75 hp.
If you entomb all patches, your workers will go idle. I believe, but I'm not certain, they will try going to any available patch, so if you entomb all but one, they will all move to that remaining patch.
Workers will not automatically attack the shields, because workers do not autoattack in general. However, other units will automatically attack.
Source: tested it at blizzcon.
Thanks for this, this is what I've heard and this is what it looks so I'm glad you are able to confirm this further. I'm curious though as to what the actual AoE was in the test however, one person said it covered all mineral patches but I'm not too sure since the HotS preview shows it missing 3 mineral patches. However Browder said it would cost the player around 500 minerals, which means it must cover more than the 5 that were shown since each mineral gives 100 minerals per minute yet entomb only lasts 45 seconds, meaning a full entomb with 5 minerals would only cost them 375 minerals not 500. I think it might cover 7 minerals with a 4 AoE range because that equates to 525 minerals lost (700 * 0.45) if the opponent does nothing about it, but it would be great to have some confirmation on this.
If blizzard keeps the battle hellion, they're going to keep it light trust me. Otherwise it makes no sense because it takes extra damage from things like blink stalkers, which are one of the things that absolutely rapes mech. It's supposed to be a light unit, as it would also take extra damage from immortals if it were armored...which makes mech pointless..
The entire point of the battle hellion is to make mech more viable, not make it pointless, so yes, it's supposed to remain a light unit. |
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| Azera November 04 2011 11:55. Posts 3467 | Profile Blog # |
On November 02 2011 21:42 Existor wrote:
Is it real, that Speedralisk (hydra wih speed) and Roanelings (banes with burrowed while moving, like Roaches) are available after Hive?
Yes. |
| | Trudge comfortably | Check out some glorious music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc. | |
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| SheffiTB Canada. November 04 2011 15:21. Posts 223 | Profile Blog # |
On November 04 2011 07:27 ThisGS wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 07:13 darglein wrote:
i think the thor is 8 supply. because its a kind of mothership, even more expensive and mothershop has already 8.
mothership was 6
mothership was 8. |
| | Gold level player who watches day9 and loves helping other low level players. |
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| SheffiTB Canada. November 04 2011 15:26. Posts 223 | Profile Blog # |
On November 04 2011 11:14 avilo wrote:
Eh, so looks like you are also doing some balance adjustments as well to the units. Might help give blizzard current feedback on these units some, but you might as well remove the shredder from the game. 150/150 no one will ever build them, they were already terrible in the first place (contrary to forum warriors whining).
Might wanna fix the battle hellion up more in this mod too, blue flame didn't affect it b4 (guess u fixed that tho?) and it's not supposed to be armored. That defeats the point of having hellions with mech, as blink stalkers would get bonus damage against them, as well as immortals, etc. Keep it light.
He's not doing balance adjustments, only making it as accurate as possible. At blizzcon the shredder was 150/150. |
| | Gold level player who watches day9 and loves helping other low level players. |
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| ElusoryX Singapore. November 04 2011 19:37. Posts 1937 | Profile Blog # |
| the shredder is really really bugged :/ units get attacked even after getting out of range... |
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| Roblin Sweden. November 04 2011 21:43. Posts 835 | Profile # |
On November 04 2011 11:09 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 23:40 XenoX101 wrote:New Patch up! Lots of new things such as Arc Shield no longer working on Pylons & Assimilators, Preordain now working fully and Entomb being reworked with minerals now being attackable. I have written an explanation for some of the big changes on reddit but will cross-post the text here if you're interested along with the patch notes. See below. Patch Notes 0.87- Preordain works properly on all except hatcheries due to larva use - Preordain no longer gives full vision and is no longer permanent - Arc Shield no longer works on pylons and assimilators - Recall now just like the mothership (nearly instant) - Entomb slightly reworked - Entomb now has 4 AoE range (still uncertain as to exact range, but think that it doesnt cover all minerals) - Entomb mineral blocks are owned by player casting them (give slight vision) - Entombed minerals no longer disappear from minimap - Thor damage now displays correctly, is affected by upgrades - Infernal preigniter now affects battle hellions - Blinding cloud fixed to affect all players - Now all playable 2v2 - MULE now has timed life on replication - Arc Shield and Recall hotkeys now S and R respectively - Phase Shift on gas now blocks mining - Phase Shift on turrets, cannons, spine&spore now stops weapons - Warhound now costs 150/75 - Shredder now costs 150/150 - Swarm Host now 40s build time - Swarm Host now regenerates cooldown when unburrowed - Burrowed Banelings no longer benefit from centrifugal hooks - Battle hellions are now light + Show Spoiler +The most notable is that Arc Shield no longer works on pylons or assimilators, early game arc shield rushes were seen as game-breaking by a number of people and Blizzard have stated that they didn't intend for the ability to be used offensively, so I concluded that this would be the best course of action. Secondly Entomb now casts barriers under that person's control and has 1 less AoE. The control change means they can be attack moved by any unit of the opponent's. This was apparently the real way it functioned at BlizzCon, despite the drones never attacking the minerals in the teaser videos (which is what led me to believe they were neutral). The AoE change is to be more consistent with the teaser that shows slightly less than all 8 minerals blocked Thirdly Preordain now works against all buildings except for hatcheries due to their larva, with 3 range as I was recently told its range is quite short. However I also believe there may be some balance issues with having full view of a hatcheries' production cycle for 2 minutes. It also no longer provides vision of anything but the building itself and times out appropriately when the preordain finishes. But the biggest thing about this change is that with this spell done the map has 100% of the abilities and units from the teaser in the game. This means that the 'only' updates that need to be made are balance-related with the values that we don't know for sure. Here is a current spreadsheet on how similar the current unit stats are to the real HotS
Someone stated that the range of battle hellions were 4, which I think is pretyt accurate (its most likely not 2.5). In the video from blizzcon the battle hellions aren't attack moving (I think). They are being moved closer to the targets to increase their line (splash) damage.
incorrect, in blizzard videos there is never ever any micro involved which is not necessary to display the point.
I can guarantee you that after those hellions had been placed in the correct spot they just stood there and waited for the protoss army. |
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