| Samro225am Germany. October 31 2011 13:06. Posts 786 | Profile # |
[M] (4) Burning Altar 1.1 by Samro225am (EU) - (unfixed TLMC Burning Altar 1.0 on US, EU, SEA)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YNB3W.jpg)
Finalist in TL Map-Making Contest!
Introduced to TPW Mappool February 1st 2012
Information
spawns: 4
size: 148x148
bases: 12regular
n2n: 105/141AU (close/cross)
+ Show Spoiler [concept] +simplel rotational map with a unique centre, that incorporate the feature of four three-way highrounds circling the actual centre. My idea was also used by lefix in Daedalus. here this idea is blend into the map with the highround-connecting paths blocked by deytructable rocks, making them important to attack and defend your third.
+ Show Spoiler [changelog] +v0.4: wide ramps are only triple, not quadruple
v0.5: moved thirds away from main, deleted alt-entrance at nat to make it easier to defend
v0.6: nat choke wallable with three 3x3 building completly
v0.7: moved XWT more to outsides, took away losb around tower, now easier to cross centre unseen and easier and more important to keep one's own tower.
v0.8 moved XWT again, this time in a less agressive position. they help to scout in order to defend or attack the centre and do not hurt thirds that much
v.0.9 TLMC entry
v1.0 more FPS on slow systems, also changed Decal Colors and fog settings > will be re-submitted for TLMC
v1.1 adjusted drop pods and layout on third bases; slightly bigger mains; tanks drops and sieges have smaller impact on the game, but are possible; ledges can no longer be abused as they only serve as steps into the mains
> New map: TPW Burning Altar
Overview
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AYDGs.jpg)
Images
(always even nicer in game)
+ Show Spoiler +Main ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ru8ml.jpg) Natural ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CNwMl.jpg) Third (clockwise) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AfTbK.jpg) Third (counterclockwise) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xU07U.jpg) Towers and Rocks ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/v1N22.jpg)
Last edit: 2012-02-01 08:02:06 |
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| NewSunshine United States. October 31 2011 13:37. Posts 1014 | Profile # |
| Which are the 2 spawns? It looks suspiciously like a 4-spawn map from where I'm sitting... it looks cool, but it looks like a 4-spawn map. Unless you mean to imply it's meant for 2-player, with forced cross spawns. |
| | [ESV mapmaking team member] [Former DF map team founder] [@ESVNewSunshine] |
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| Ragoo Germany. October 31 2011 20:11. Posts 2206 | Profile # |
Solid layout with all the little features done correctly imo.
Xel'Naga towers are where they belong, on the highground, so they don't negate highground/lowground! Very interesting middle overall with nice rock placement!
Also, lowground harrass cliffs are awesome^^
Aesthetics are refreshing and great execution as always 
Only concern I have is that thirds are a bit far away and open for Protoss. |
| | Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud |
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| Megakenny Canada. October 31 2011 20:27. Posts 790 | Profile Blog # |
| I dont like that the thirds are basically on the doorstep of your opponents natural in some spawn positions. Other than that its very well done. |
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| Samro225am Germany. November 01 2011 01:52. Posts 786 | Profile # |
On October 31 2011 13:37 MisfortuneS Ghost wrote:
Which are the 2 spawns? It looks suspiciously like a 4-spawn map from where I'm sitting... it looks cool, but it looks like a 4-spawn map. Unless you mean to imply it's meant for 2-player, with forced cross spawns.
this is a 4spawn map meant to be played by 2 players.
i made a mistake when making the title for the thread. not much sleep a 
also: no forced spawns or anything like that. the two crosspoistition really have to be different in my opinion to make a 4-2/2in1 map worth it. forced spawns on a 4spawn map is a solution in some cases, but only because game/m,ap is broken in a way and no longer fitting the game is intended to be.
On October 31 2011 20:11 Ragoo wrote:Solid layout with all the little features done correctly imo. Xel'Naga towers are where they belong, on the highground, so they don't negate highground/lowground! Very interesting middle overall with nice rock placement! Also, lowground harrass cliffs are awesome^^ Aesthetics are refreshing and great execution as always Only concern I have is that thirds are a bit far away and open for Protoss.
thanks for the nice comment (greart execution as always). indeed the thirds are in an open area, but the chokes are a double and a triple ramp, hence a choke you can work with. players have to pick there fights and the locations were they meet. also note that the third when expanding away makes you go the long way through the middle and then turn, so plenty of time to react accordingly when scouted (four towers help you to do so).
I wanted the middle to be important and because of this setup - which is unique afaik (until lefix copied it thanks making this setup popular!) - the middle is not occupied by one player, but an area of dynamics and constant transfer. it is something you control by scouting or move through, not by standing around exclusivly.
so the whole map layout is more about the chokes onto these four connecting plateaus than the ultimate openness of the thirds.
On October 31 2011 20:27 Megakenny wrote:
I dont like that the thirds are basically on the doorstep of your opponents natural in some spawn positions. Other than that its very well done.
you can always expand away! the third between two close spawns is in the middle of two armies guarding their nats. Some aggressive players might take it, and it sure helps spawning clockwise from your opponent This is not perfecty balanced obviously, but there are similar or worse imbalances found on many maps everybofy lives with (antiga shipyard).
also when it prooves to be an imbalance it can be fixed by moving the third back and a bit more to the nat than the other main. i just did not have the time for the TLMC to do so sadly.
i look forward to more feedback, as i plan to incorporate the centre for a 16base and a crazy 20base map =DLast edit: 2011-11-01 02:09:50 |
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| Antares777 United States. November 01 2011 05:34. Posts 1648 | Profile # |
I really like how the Xel'naga Tower platforms are separated from the natural ground by the destructible rocks, it's a very creative touch. The proportions are very well put out, the only thing you have to watch now is chokes vs. openness in some areas. Testing is really the only way to find them.
Good job on this map, it's very unique! |
| | Life for you's been less than kind, so take a number stand in line, we've all been sorry we've all been hurt, but how we survive is what makes us who we are. |
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| FlaShFTW United States. November 01 2011 05:50. Posts 4959 | Profile Blog # |
| really like this map, though may be too chokey. bases look very similar to tal'darim altar without the 4ths. |
| | Never Surrender. Never GG. Always Fighting. BW4LYF. Woo Jung Ho Never Forget. |
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| Samro225am Germany. November 05 2011 02:41. Posts 786 | Profile # |
v0.5: moved thirds away from main, deleted alt-entrance at nat to make it easier to defend
+ new images in OP
(it is not really that chokey btw. hope to get it to US, soon, so you can play, too) |
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| Namrufus United States. November 05 2011 10:18. Posts 281 | Profile # |
The aesthetics on this map look amazing.
how much vision of the do the watchtowers provide on the outer routes? It seems like in a close spawn game, one player will have easier access to the tower until the rocks are destroyed. |
| | ESV mapmaking team member :: author of [M] (2) ESV Abode :: You're Winner ! |
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| Samro225am Germany. November 05 2011 18:37. Posts 786 | Profile # |
On November 05 2011 10:18 Namrufus wrote:
The aesthetics on this map look amazing.
how much vision of the do the watchtowers provide on the outer routes? It seems like in a close spawn game, one player will have easier access to the tower until the rocks are destroyed.
XWT spot one half of each ramp down to the thirds and half of the ramp down to the central junction!
thanks for the praise for gfx
edit: i also tried out more agressive placements, like tower spots half of nat choke, nothing at the ramp between nat and clockwise third but the whole ramp betweem nat and counterclockwise third. it is much more usefull, but overpowered in a way. so i think i stick with this tower setup, that mainly helps to spot army movements in the centre and normnally sees each player taking two towers in mid-/late-gameLast edit: 2011-11-05 20:42:16 |
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| Samro225am Germany. November 08 2011 09:01. Posts 786 | Profile # |
v0.6:
nat choke wallable with three 3x3 building completly
edit:
v0.7
moved XWT more to outsides, took away losb around tower, now easier to cross centre unseen and easier and more important to keep one's own tower
(images updates in OP)Last edit: 2011-11-08 19:53:37 |
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| Antares777 United States. November 08 2011 09:15. Posts 1648 | Profile # |
I like the changes. The thirds are still a little bit far away, but that will should not affect balance, just the way the game is played. I'm curious, did you alter the lighting? It looks a bit red O_o I can't tell if it's just the lava. |
| | Life for you's been less than kind, so take a number stand in line, we've all been sorry we've all been hurt, but how we survive is what makes us who we are. |
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| Samro225am Germany. November 08 2011 20:11. Posts 786 | Profile # |
I am slowly working my way to a more definitive version:
v0.8 moved XWT again, this time in a less agressive position. and i hope it will stay here, cause i really like what it does now:
they help to scout in order to defend or attack the centre and do not hurt thirds that much. Also they now spot the complete path of the destructable rocks nearby and the half of both ramps between nat and ccw third and central lowground. The path between nat and cw third (of the cw position) is no longer seen - thanks zelniq and Plexa for suggesting a more conservative and defensive placement.
you can see it here:
+ Show Spoiler [towers] +
(also updated OP with new images)
On November 08 2011 09:15 Antares777 wrote:
I like the changes. The thirds are still a little bit far away, but that will should not affect balance, just the way the game is played. I'm curious, did you alter the lighting? It looks a bit red O_o I can't tell if it's just the lava.
on controlling three (or four) bases:
indeed thirds are not super close, but when you expand away in close position the base can still be controlled - you just have to scout and you can not wall behind three bases.
The way the layout works the better your map control the longer the path becomes that your opponent would have to take to get to your bases. Intersting position for this is the highround from the next XWT going straight to your fourth when in ccw position and the circle like pathwork between your nat, the next XWT, the middle lowground and the DRs when in cw position)
regarding color:
i had to fake fog color because the editor does not show it when exporting the overview... so the color is correct in the screenshots, but not in the overview. Lava indeed is orange, not red, because i used orange fog |
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| Samro225am Germany. November 10 2011 04:13. Posts 786 | Profile # | |
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| Zolek United States. November 11 2011 19:40. Posts 86 | Profile # |
| I really like this map. Have you considered slightly sinking the protoss decals by reducing their height to make them a little less bright. Sinking them 0.1 or 0.2 more would make them blend in a lot better with the ground in my opinion. Right now they can be a little in your face. |
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| Modernist United States. November 11 2011 20:32. Posts 88 | Profile # |
| Awesome map but I gotta say the purple decals look really bad lol. |
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| Samro225am Germany. November 11 2011 21:30. Posts 786 | Profile # |
purple is the new blue! i thought one might enjoy some more color with contarsts like the orange-green-purple that I used in this map.
seems like the audience might enjoy the same-same we already know so well?
IPL finalists all are blue/grey/green 
regarding the layout and TLMC reception:
the map is a finalists, that shows its balance and hardcore-gameplay-first-approach. still it seems people dislike it for not being a 2spawn map, that certainly gives more options for different bases. in the end this is one of the best uses of destructable rocks (yeah, I have to admit i like what I came up with a lot tbh) ever and a really different approach on designing the middle. So I kind of blame the amount of 16base rotational maps we have seen lately that people are no longer fond of 4spawn maps. Still this is a very straight forward, clean and minimalistic design and I hope it gets a chance to proove.
until then: few aeshetical changes to come, but this layout is final unless gameplay problems should occur. |
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| RumbleBadger November 13 2011 09:16. Posts 322 | Profile # |
| This map is my favorite (by far) of the TLMC finalists. The center is creative, there is little if any positional imbalance (in fact I almost prefer close spawns to cross spawns on this map...) and the texturing with the lava is creative and bright. I wish this map got more attention because I like it a lot. =D |
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| Samro225am Germany. November 14 2011 00:20. Posts 786 | Profile # |
On November 13 2011 09:16 RumbleBadger wrote:
This map is my favorite (by far) of the TLMC finalists. The center is creative, there is little if any positional imbalance (in fact I almost prefer close spawns to cross spawns on this map...) and the texturing with the lava is creative and bright. I wish this map got more attention because I like it a lot. =D
Thanks, and i wish and hope it will get more attention with the actual tournament. It plays really well and is balanced. Third looks further away than it feels in-game.
anyway, i made an update to this map:
Changes 1.0
Gameplay - non
Performance - less FPS drop in border region close to nat
Visuals - more simplifing of the visual theme and color range (orange decals, less glow, a tad more fog)
(see OP for images) |
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| JimSocks United States. December 11 2011 04:20. Posts 764 | Profile # |
| remove those ledges above naturals. terran siege tank drops imba |
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