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| pindleskin New Zealand. February 28 2012 22:25. Posts 183 | Profile # |
On February 28 2012 22:09 DrAbuse wrote:
One question: Will Dragon be allowed to watch the IPL4-Stream during his games?
^this guy is obviously being sarcastic... |
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| RyanDeSanto February 28 2012 22:27. Posts 4 | Profile # |
On February 28 2012 22:20 TheCrazySwede wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote:
So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
I can understand why, but I do think this is overreacting a bit. Yes Katu was out of line and I'm certainly not defending what he said, but the punishment doesn't really fit the crime in this case. I believe an official warning or something similar would be a better fit. He was after all a pretty good caster when he was behaving properly. I was watching both Playhem's and Dragon's streams when things were going downhill and Dragon didn't seem to be offended at all. Although to be fair it could be that he either wasn't aware or understood what was being said about him. But my point is that if Dragon can forgive Katu, then so should his fans be able to. At least wait for a reaction from him before making any decisions.
I understand your sentiment, though actions outside of this incident are also a factor in my decision. Playhem does not tolerate any bigotry, homophobia, or general disrespect of any kind -- no matter how vernacular or seemingly accepted the terms are.
Maybe this is a good opportunity for the community to come together and draft guidelines for caster ethics and behavior.Last edit: 2012-02-28 22:32:10 |
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| RoachCoach Netherlands. February 28 2012 22:31. Posts 58 | Profile # |
| I initially liked Katu as caster, but later on he seemed very rude, even when he made mistakes like not switching to the game and stay on the overlays he was like whatever viewers, idc.. It felt like he didn't care about his viewers. At least that's the way I felt. |
| | It is time! - Yes! - Nestea walks over. Lightballs pop. Women faint, Men faint, things fall from the ceiling. - Stars explode. - Thats right. Black holes are made. - THIS STUPID GODDAMN NERDS! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7KD6L23MUQ |
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| Iroh England. February 28 2012 22:43. Posts 45 | Profile # |
What Playhem have offered to Dragon is amazing. I even with this issue I have, and will, always look up to Playhem for what they do to the community and the tournaments and money the bring. No one should ever go against them as it is places like Playhem where players become pro and the magic of esports happens.
Wit the issue of the caster himself, Katu. What he did was an absolute disgrace, this is something I did not want to witness is the SC2 community. If anyone has there pitchforks out it should be for him and only him, he should also lose his casting position without a doubt. Maybe one day he can be forgiven and grow as a caster, but as of that single cast he has knocked himself to the bottom and only has himself to blame. He needs to lay low, apologize and change.
T.L.D.R: Playhem = Awesome. Katu = the problem. Should no longer cast for playhem and apologize. |
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| hysterial United States. February 28 2012 22:47. Posts 2000 | Profile # |
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote:
So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
My respect for Playhelm has gone up about 100%. |
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| 459 Sweden. February 28 2012 22:50. Posts 66 | Profile # |
I will not stop watching Playhem due to one bad action. Never seen Katu cast so i don't have an opinion. I'm guessing playhem will have a discussion with Katu.
Whatever, gogo Playhem! You are providing some nice service for e-sports!
About Dragon, the burdon of proof is on the accuser I would say. If he is cheating (again) he doesn't deserv a spot in any tournament and Playhem should try to stay away from him.
But proof before judgeing! |
| | Is killing e-sports killing e-sports? Guess it should say GG for more skills. |
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| Argolis Canada. February 28 2012 22:57. Posts 211 | Profile # |
I got my pitchfork ready, who we going after today?
Playwho? |
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| Swampsteel United States. February 28 2012 22:58. Posts 85 | Profile # |
| People make stupid mistakes, and act like idiots. What Katu said was with no question unacceptable. Send your feedback to Playhem and if you can't forgive Katu don't watch when he is casting, that is your personal choice. Just don't boycott wonderful tournaments entirely like Playhem and KSL. A lot of great work goes into producing some amazing content. |
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| ITSAmeee Italy. February 28 2012 22:58. Posts 36 | Profile # |
loved your answer and approach Ryan.
Still not sure what I hope the player will answer to this (accept/refuse), but regardless, your post and intentions are admirable.
Thank you. |
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| TheCrazySwede Sweden. February 28 2012 23:13. Posts 3 | Profile # |
On February 28 2012 22:27 RyanDeSanto wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 22:20 TheCrazySwede wrote:
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote:
So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
I can understand why, but I do think this is overreacting a bit. Yes Katu was out of line and I'm certainly not defending what he said, but the punishment doesn't really fit the crime in this case. I believe an official warning or something similar would be a better fit. He was after all a pretty good caster when he was behaving properly. I was watching both Playhem's and Dragon's streams when things were going downhill and Dragon didn't seem to be offended at all. Although to be fair it could be that he either wasn't aware or understood what was being said about him. But my point is that if Dragon can forgive Katu, then so should his fans be able to. At least wait for a reaction from him before making any decisions.
I understand your sentiment, though actions outside of this incident are also a factor in my decision. Playhem does not tolerate any bigotry, homophobia, or general disrespect of any kind -- no matter how vernacular or seemingly accepted the terms are. Maybe this is a good opportunity for the community to come together and draft guidelines for caster ethics and behavior.
I see. I was unaware that this wasn't an isolated incident and then I support your decision.
Thank you for the clarification.
And having some guidelines to follow might be a good idea, but not only for the casters but the viewers as well. Both sides did some heavy pie tossing last night (or whatever time it was in US, it was night here at least  ), including death threats towards Katu and such. And props to the chat moderators who still kept the chat relatively clean. It can't have been an easy job.
Note that I'm not trying to hold Playhem responsible for it's viewers' actions. I'm just throwing it out there for the community to think about. Rabid fans can be just as damaging to a player's reputation as what Katu said.Last edit: 2012-02-28 23:15:35 |
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| Zorkmid Canada. February 28 2012 23:17. Posts 3887 | Profile Blog # |
On February 28 2012 22:57 Argolis wrote:
I got my pitchfork ready, who we going after today?
Playwho?
LOL, I hear what you're saying but this is one of those increasing rare situations where a pitchfork may be appropriate. Not to go after Playhem, but the caster in question.
There are far too many wonderfully talented up and coming casters to warrant someone like him getting a casting chair on Playhem's official stream. |
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| KatuStarcraft Canada. February 28 2012 23:20. Posts 148 | Profile # |
This was posted in the reddit thread, though it will likely get buried so I re-post here.
Hello SC2 community,
First and foremost I'd like to apologize once again, and clarify in lieu of some of the comments here, that I did apologize last night not only on stream but I also approached a translator who communicated for me to Dragon my apologies and reasoning.
First I would like to say that trolling is not a professional way to act, though, it can be fun and in person I do it constantly, on air more rarely, but in both cases, I always do it for a laugh and never to tear anyone down.
Last night I had a lapse in judgement, thinking at the time that it would be funny to make comments which were inappropriate. I sincerely apologize for making these comments, and any negative impact it had on Dragon.
At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
So instead of clarifying immediately I just kept it going, unbeknownst to me, simply fueling the fire I had no intention of starting.
Finally, during a game I saw some comments made by co-casters which made no sense, considering the way I thought this was going and then I took a more than 2 second glance at the chat and started to realize what was happening. I was incredulous at first, truly stunned, I couldn't believe the way this had actually gone and I tried to apologize but it was too late. If you watched the video, you'll notice that I am rather calm about what I'm saying and nonchalant about the comments from chat. I really did not understand how South everything had gone.
I hope this clarifies things a bit, though I likely hope in vain. I do want to state that the things I said were from me, and my own mistakes, and that playhem has the best casters I've ever had the privilege to work with, who shouldn't all be painted with this brush.
To all those of you who tried to explain and continued to support I sincerely thank you for your efforts though I was in the wrong for ever even trying to make such jokes. |
| | Lover of video games and whiskey, if only video games looked good nude I could have my own Californication style show! |
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| TangYiChen Korea (South). February 28 2012 23:21. Posts 194 | Profile # |
| Awesome offer from Playhem. Handling the situation really well, props. |
| | Do the difficult things while they are easy and do the great things while they are small. A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step. |
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| DeuceStarcraft Canada. February 28 2012 23:29. Posts 60 | Profile Blog # |
Yes, what Katu does sucked, and no, he's not the greatest, but I don't think we should drive a pitchfork through his career (well..not yet at least). I think a stern warning to not let such a thing happen again, with some disciplinary action (I have no idea how the inner workings of Playhem work, but perhaps a suspension from casting for a while?) and a firm "If this happens again, you're gone" sentiment would be good enough.
I'm not a fan of Katu, but I hate to see someone's career/lifestyle ruined because of one stupid mistake.
EDIT: Also, Playhem. Wow. What a fantastic offer to Dragon...even if he doesn't take it, that's VERY big of you. Last edit: 2012-02-28 23:30:02 |
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| Zorkmid Canada. February 28 2012 23:33. Posts 3887 | Profile Blog # |
On February 28 2012 23:20 KatuStarcraft wrote:
At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
Could someone who watched the stream comment on the truth of this part of Katu's post....from what I had read, it seemed as if he was reading the chat and loving the negative reaction he was getting. |
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| Seffit Sweden. February 28 2012 23:35. Posts 3 | Profile # |
<3 Playhem
</3 Katu |
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| ValarK United States. February 28 2012 23:36. Posts 21 | Profile # |
Mr. DeSanto, your response struck a chord. For what my opinion is worth, which may be very close to nothing, I believe the steps you took to redress the situation, and more specifically your offer to sponsor Dragon for an upcoming tournament, is way beyond what would be expected or required of you or your company given the magnitude of the offense. This is both commendable and regrettable; commendable because it is a very kind gesture that demonstrates your commitment to your craft, and regrettable because, presumably, it will cost you.
I do agree that your caster's actions were reprehensible, and initially tended to agree with the storm of outrage, but now that the dust has settled a little, I find it sad that one individual's mistake could have such repercussions on an organization that, in the end, works to promote and benefit the game we all love. It may have been sufficient if you had publicly reprimanded your caster or suspended him for a few weeks. Like you very rightly said, if we, the community, wish to comport ourselves as purveyors of justice, then we should recognize that if one individual deserves forgiveness, so should another.
However, all that said, your gesture is very graceful and merits respect. As in all things, you have to take the good with the bad; the good being, in this case, that you took this opportunity to prove to the community your work ethic, which is admirable.
Best of luck. |
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| KatuStarcraft Canada. February 28 2012 23:36. Posts 148 | Profile # |
| indeed I was, but I was only glancing at it, and again thinking it was just a small minority of people trying to stir things up and didn't get what I was up too. |
| | Lover of video games and whiskey, if only video games looked good nude I could have my own Californication style show! |
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 Sergio1992 Italy. February 28 2012 23:41. Posts 521 | Profile Blog # |
| I don't think you have anything to apologize. |
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| Remaker12 United States. February 28 2012 23:42. Posts 98 | Profile # |
On February 28 2012 23:20 KatuStarcraft wrote:
This was posted in the reddit thread, though it will likely get buried so I re-post here.
Hello SC2 community,
First and foremost I'd like to apologize once again, and clarify in lieu of some of the comments here, that I did apologize last night not only on stream but I also approached a translator who communicated for me to Dragon my apologies and reasoning.
First I would like to say that trolling is not a professional way to act, though, it can be fun and in person I do it constantly, on air more rarely, but in both cases, I always do it for a laugh and never to tear anyone down.
Last night I had a lapse in judgement, thinking at the time that it would be funny to make comments which were inappropriate. I sincerely apologize for making these comments, and any negative impact it had on Dragon.
At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
So instead of clarifying immediately I just kept it going, unbeknownst to me, simply fueling the fire I had no intention of starting.
This isn't an apology. It's an excuse.Last edit: 2012-02-28 23:43:16 |
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