[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion

Why would you ever NOT start cloth 5 pot with Rammus? It makes his first clear a LOT faster and safer than any other possible item combination, builds in something actually useful (depending on how you play him, Wriggle's or Randuin's) and makes countering early on possible. It's a suboptimal start for many junglers imo, but for Rammus, it's pretty legit.

honver started vamp scepter until the mastery changes, now he starts d-shield

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sob3k United States. November 29 2011 04:08. Posts 4657

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Why is maokai considered a strong champ? EArly he is pretty solid with his good snare and saplings hit pretty hard, but later in the game the saplings become laughably useless in all the games I've played and his DPS becomes like nothing...If it was just about the snare then I would always favor Ryze over him as Ryze has like 1/8 the CD and doesnt have to fly to the target and probably get killed. The ult is good but honestly its not THAT good...people just leave and teamfights arent nearly as compact in most higher level games.

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Two_DoWn United States. November 29 2011 04:09. Posts 7269

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Saint also been experimenting with dsheild stack in jungle.

And maokai works for TOO because people werent used to playing against him, and he was able to get fed and end the games at MLG quickly.

Last edit: 2011-11-29 04:10:15

Cry havoc and let slip the hogs of war~

jcarlsoniv United States. November 29 2011 04:10. Posts 4081

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On November 29 2011 04:08 sob3k wrote:
Why is maokai considered a strong champ? EArly he is pretty solid with his good snare and saplings hit pretty hard, but later in the game the saplings become laughably useless in all the games I've played and his DPS becomes like nothing...If it was just about the snare then I would always favor Ryze over him as Ryze has like 1/8 the CD and doesnt have to fly to the target and probably get killed. The ult is good but honestly its not THAT good...people just leave and teamfights arent nearly as compact in most higher level games.

Free wards, good range snare, PBAoE interupt/minor knock back, and this damage reduction on his ult is nothing to laugh at.

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Divine-Sneaker Denmark. November 29 2011 04:14. Posts 786

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Maokais root has a ridiculously long range compared to other targeted roots/stuns. That with the element of surprise in him being a fairly new or untested at least concept in jungle gave good ganks.

Didn't expect several responses to my minirant on ping. I just needed to get a word in on that. Most games I play, anything that closes in on 100 ping average is goddamn infuriating to play in my opinion. Any noticable delay is just a giant bag of dicksuck that makes me want to rage. I know you can compensate, but that relegates a lot of things that should be down to skill and prediction to prediction only, which equals luck.

TheKefka Croatia. November 29 2011 04:15. Posts 8111

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Because the only way to play a legit maokai is to jungle or,maybe in some cases,support.
Either way Maokais job is to tank and he is one of the best initiators in the game imo,ganks are redic.
The true value in maokai late game is too catch stray enemys while they are out of position with shurelya's-twisted advance-arcane smash and you pick apart their team piece by piece.Watch how TheOddOne played maokai at MLG.

Last edit: 2011-11-29 04:17:59

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Alaric France. November 29 2011 04:16. Posts 8737

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Even out of drawn-out fights, when you can force a fight his ult is excellent, particularly against burst-y champs. Akali, Katarina for example lose quite some momentum if they can't get a kill/assist on their first rotation. I've also saved people post-fight from Karthus' ult with mine, stuff like that.
Even though the range's quite short, you can use his snare to engage, and with your ult and some HP items you get quite tanky from your passive if there's one or two spammy champs in the fights. I agree that Maokai falls off pretty hard late game (I haven't managed to farm enough to get him some offtank stuff, so I don't know how hard he falls behind, tho), but you've got some cc and you're still looking at 400+ magic damage on squishies if you aim your saplings well.

He's a lot more powerful as a jungler/roamer than as a solotop currently, obviously, so it's a bit different. You could see it as a lesser Galio : really good early on, his damage tends to fall off lategame but he retains tankiness and good utility.

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Navi Korea (South). November 29 2011 04:16. Posts 3252

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if you think 20% damage redux on his ult is "not that good" then you're just wrong lol
alistar's ult was nerfed 20% damage redux from when it was a flat 70 at all levels. if you think that change wasn't noticeable, again just wrong lol

ryze comparison: ryze can't jungle. Ryze needs more money to do his job properly. maokai has a beast gank, probably better than rammus' at level 3.

he's definitely stronger in arranged play though, i agree. when you have to put yourself in melee range of the enemy team to get full effectiveness, if you don't have good communication or your team isn't on the same mode of thinking, then you can have some really dumb plays lol

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turdburgler England. November 29 2011 04:20. Posts 4638

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On November 29 2011 03:41 Terranasaur wrote:
I know the Jungle discussion was a few pages back, but I wanted to bring this up. Last night I created a new summoner and tried out the Jungle with Rammus. Maybe I forgot this, but it is literally impossible to Jungle a lvl 1 summoner. I started cloth+5 at blue taking Smite and HEAL, and DBC first. I started whacking the big blue golem. I would have died before I killed him if I didn't have the Heal summoner because the big blue golem greatly out DPS the healing from pots.

I haven't tried any other junglers out at lvl 1 but I imagine the results would be the same.

I think that anything that makes the jungle more accessible to lower level summoners will help the game and I'm looking forward to trying different opening items with the Moose. Vamp Scepter perhaps?

ive only just started jungling and even with a full page of shitty armor runes you cant do big packs solo before like lvl 5 because you need to spend your entire mana bar and at lvl 1 its just impossible even with a pull.

then i got like 4-5 more armor from better runes and now i can do blue ezpz. this is with rammus too.

On November 29 2011 03:46 Shiv. wrote:

Show nested quote +

can i ask why randiuns is worth getting at all? heart of gold seems useless when maladreds/wriggles procs earn you gold faster because you kill faster. then when u get wriggles having a free ward constantly is basically free gold/5 anyway

On November 29 2011 04:09 Two_DoWn wrote:
Saint also been experimenting with dsheild stack in jungle.

And maokai works for TOO because people werent used to playing against him, and he was able to get fed and end the games at MLG quickly.

pretty sure that was just on mundo for the health regen?

Last edit: 2011-11-29 04:26:34

Two_DoWn United States. November 29 2011 04:27. Posts 7269

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SV ran double Dshield dragonbitch last night.

Cry havoc and let slip the hogs of war~

Blitzkrieg0 United States. November 29 2011 04:32. Posts 4732

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Randuins is a great item in itself. You don't buy it because it gives you gold from the heart of gold piece. When I jungle Udyr I normally skip the HoG altogether and rush a Warden's Mail and just build it from there. You don't need the gold per ten from heart of gold for randuin to be worth it.

Rammus is the best Randuin user in the game since he has his W that increases the duration of the Randuin active. It also gives him health which is the number one stat Rammus needs and while it isn't a warmog, it also has an exceptional active. You don't get a randuin instead of a wriggles though. That'd just be silly.

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Hoban United States. November 29 2011 04:33. Posts 961

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Randuins is one of the most powerful defensive items in the game. Any enemy that attacks you has attack speed slowed by 35%. So basically anyone you taunt and anyone who spares an AA on you now attacks 35% slower. Cool factor #1. #2 is that the activate slows everyone around you by 35% (both attack speed and movement speed) for ~4-5 seconds lategame. That is huge! #3, it has a huge amount of armor and hp on it to make you more tanky. If you look at jungle clear speeds once you get up there in level the difference between wriggles and no-wriggles is not too extraordinary. The free ward is definitely nice but a Randuins makes you so extremely tanky. It is a very good item.

Also on champs with huge defensive abilities (i.e. Rammus DBC or Leonas shield) stacking HP is quite legitimate. You get more survivability for cost getting HP items on champs like that. This is why HoG is great on Rammus and Leona. Generally you are ganking as much as possible and having your carries take half your jungle anyway, the gp5 is nice. It is no free ward from wriggles but it is nice.

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Navi Korea (South). November 29 2011 04:35. Posts 3252

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look at randuin's passive. and then think why rammus in particular would benefit from said passive and his w, and his taunt.
not to mention that teamwide AoE cc (slow) is good. and again, on someone who has an aoe around him ultimate, people not being able to run away from said ultimate isn't bad.

rammus' baseline clearing speed is not too shabby, wriggles doesn't speed up his jungling like a 100% autoattack-centric jungler (i.e. ww). certainly isn't bad, but if you're spending time waiting for ganks, HoG + philo probably nets you more money as well as buildling into great lategame items for rammus and his team.

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Alaric France. November 29 2011 04:46. Posts 8737

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By the way, what is checked for Randuin's active duration (+0.5s per 100)? Resistance and armor separately or combined?

MoonBear November 29 2011 04:50. Posts 7487

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On November 29 2011 04:46 Alaric wrote:
By the way, what is checked for Randuin's active duration (+0.5s per 100)? Resistance and armor separately or combined?

Combined. Also, it doesn't count it per 100 but the total amount. So that means, for example, 50 armour would give +0.25, etc. So 150 Armour and 150 MRes would have a full +1.5s the same way flat 300 Armour would.

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Alaric France. November 29 2011 05:01. Posts 8737

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Makes more sense this way. Thanks!

Craton United States. November 29 2011 05:04. Posts 10155

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All spells/items that use X% per Y amount track the decimals internally.

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nyxnyxnyx Indonesia. November 29 2011 05:26. Posts 1154

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ADVENTURES WITH HEAL/IGNITE

riven solo top: success
teemo solo mid: success
gangplank solo mid: success

more2come

cool beans

Southlight United States. November 29 2011 05:45. Posts 9999

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On November 29 2011 05:26 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
ADVENTURES WITH HEAL/IGNITE

riven solo top: success
teemo solo mid: success
gangplank solo mid: success

more2come

By the way a few days ago I played against someone who said your name, was that you?

oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora

r.Evo Germany. November 29 2011 06:04. Posts 5195

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On November 28 2011 16:49 LoCicero wrote:
Ugh, I think I might be done with this game. I just don't enjoy it anymore. Playing it is more frustrating than fun.

I know I'm late to the party, but does anyone else here know games which are:

a) Competetive
b) Not SC2
c) Not as frustrating as LoL
d) Based on decision making more than execution (aka not Quake Live)

Seriously every single time I'm frustrated with LoL because of the whole "You're reliant on random dudes in solo Q" and try to find something different I feel stuck cause it doesn't seems as if there's much else out there. =(

5men premade is kinda what's keeping me with LoL.

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