This topic is going to be mostly dedicated to bodyweight strength training.
When most people think of bodyweight training they think along the lines of high repetitions movements. This is obviously what you need for some professions. For example, the military requires that you be able to do certain amounts of situps, pushups, chinups, etc. in a set amount of time (usually 2 minutes). This requires great endurance -- you must be able to do 50+ repetitions if not more of many of these movements.
However, bodyweight strength training focuses particularly on modifying exercises to make them harder to increase strength. By aiming to increase strength, this also provides a useful stimulus for increasing muscle mass. Additionally, the added strength will help you be able to perform a lot of the awesome gymnastics-type strength skills.
I wrote an article on how to construct a bodyweight strength routine here that can get you started:
Recently, I completed my first book on this topic which delves into constructing a routine, staying injury free and rehabbing from injuries, and the various exercise progressions to work towards a lot of the different strength moves. It is available on Amazon:
On February 17 2012 05:37 Liquid`NonY wrote: I'm having a lot of fun and seeing good progress with bodyweight training! Overcoming Gravity is such a wealth of information =] I started with such weak wrists and shoulders. It feels so satisfying to finally strengthen them and start working toward full body strength and flexibility. Although I'm prioritizing hypertrophy atm, as soon as I get my vanity out of the way I'll get strength going full steam. Haven't done anything impressive yet but I'll get there one workout at a time! Anyway I don't have any questions, just wanted to drop in and say that I'm quite enjoying this approach.
DrillsAndSkills lists many good exercises. Roger's articles are also a gold mine for some of the particular techniques and nuances that need to be developed as well.
Jim's Beast Skills site has many skills that people want to strive for as well.
Gymnastics FIG code of points -- tells you the skill ratings for all of the technical skills on all apparatus in mens gymnastics.
Equipments
As always we strongly recommend that you obtain a pullup bar and a set of rings. For most people, a doorway pullup bar works, and Rogue Fitness makes good wood rings if you want a pair of those.
The rings may be hung off of the pullup bar, so you do not need to find somewhere outside to hang them unless you so desire.
Feel free to ask me questions about any of these topics. I'll try to help any of you that are interested in this type of training as much as I can. If you are in the military or want to complete certain endurance-related bodyweight feats I can help out with that as well.
Last edit: 2012-05-22 00:14:47
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
DeltruS Canada. November 24 2011 04:26. Posts 2072
is there still any point in doing pullups negatives to increase strength when you can do 3x6 and is somewhat stalling / stopped progressing fast enough ( like .5 -1 extra rep per workout so 6-6-6 to 6-7-6). how long should the going down part last?
Lee Ssang/ Lee Shin/ Kim Jung Woo/ Kim Min Chul/Jun Tae Yang/Park Soo Ho/Lee Jung Hoon/Choi Sung Hoon/ Moon Sung Won/Park Ji Soo/ Lee Ho Joon/ Jang Min Chul/ Kim Seung Chul/SaSe/IdrA/Ret Fighting! BW4Life
Zafrumi Switzerland. November 24 2011 20:52. Posts 1257
since i'm still plagued by headaches sometimes when doing squats, I was thinking about switching to bodyweight strength training. now, my question is this: is bodyweight strength training feasable for someone of my stature (177cm tall, 85kg heavy)? I imagine it is way easier for people who are short and light. is that a misconception or should I try to lose some weight first?
"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general" -Mark Rippetoe
Crawler Estonia. November 24 2011 22:22. Posts 242
It is easier for lighter people but if you really want to do bodyweight strength training then in my opinion switch now. Just fix your eating habbits if they are unhealthy. I am switching next month when I am done with current SS program and for comparison I weigh 90kg+ and I am 184cm tall.
sob3k United States. November 24 2011 23:46. Posts 4667
is there still any point in doing pullups negatives to increase strength when you can do 3x6 and is somewhat stalling / stopped progressing fast enough ( like .5 -1 extra rep per workout so 6-6-6 to 6-7-6). how long should the going down part last?
Im not eschlow but I have done an asston of pull training, I very much doubt it would be worth it, negatives and eccentric movements are almost always done only when you cannot complete the real movement. It would be like benching the bar and hoping to boost your 1repmax at this point (6+ reps concentric).
what is your max set/goals?
On November 24 2011 20:52 Zafrumi wrote: since i'm still plagued by headaches sometimes when doing squats, I was thinking about switching to bodyweight strength training. now, my question is this: is bodyweight strength training feasable for someone of my stature (177cm tall, 85kg heavy)? I imagine it is way easier for people who are short and light. is that a misconception or should I try to lose some weight first?
Well obviously its going to be harder: more bodyweight is more weight. Thats not really a reason to not start though, as opposed to weightlifting where a beginner would use smaller weights, in bodyweight training you start off with easier movements and progress from there. As you mention squats, those are going to be harder too, the more non-muscle weight you have to lift....
No need to delay, just try to lose some weight AND start whatever good strength regime you prefer. Its most important that you find the one you enjoy the most so its easy to stick with.
Last edit: 2011-11-24 23:53:43
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
eshlow United States. November 25 2011 09:16. Posts 5013
You can do negatives/eccentrics, but if you can do a reasonable amount of concentrics you're better off doing those for repetitions and working your way up (or different progressions) depending on your goals.
Bodyweight can be performed by anyone. As sob3k said... much easier beginning for lighter weight people, but I know a bunch of 200+ lbs guys who have gotten pretty good at bodyweight stuff with enough dedicated work.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
Necosarius Sweden. November 27 2011 11:49. Posts 3485
How do you suggest to begin with bodyweight strength training? I've read some from Building the gymnastics body and their exersices seems so advanced for a beginner :o
20090211~MSL Forever~Brood War for Life~gg no re~RIP Violet <3
eshlow United States. November 27 2011 12:20. Posts 5013
On November 27 2011 11:49 Necosarius wrote: How do you suggest to begin with bodyweight strength training? I've read some from Building the gymnastics body and their exersices seems so advanced for a beginner :o
Depends on your strength.
If you have rings I'd start working some basic support work.
If your dips/pullups are good then start trying to work muscle ups. if not, work dips and pullups.
If you can hit the lower levels of the back lever/front lever/planche progressions then do that... otherwise, work on rowing movements, and some harder pushup variations.
Additionally, work on handstands of course.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
jjhchsc2 Korea (South). November 27 2011 16:00. Posts 2390
@ sobek i am at 3x6 reps right now and i just want to start weighting them at 3x8-10. seems really slow on the progression.
Lee Ssang/ Lee Shin/ Kim Jung Woo/ Kim Min Chul/Jun Tae Yang/Park Soo Ho/Lee Jung Hoon/Choi Sung Hoon/ Moon Sung Won/Park Ji Soo/ Lee Ho Joon/ Jang Min Chul/ Kim Seung Chul/SaSe/IdrA/Ret Fighting! BW4Life
sob3k United States. November 27 2011 23:09. Posts 4667
On November 27 2011 16:00 jjhchsc2 wrote: @ sobek i am at 3x6 reps right now and i just want to start weighting them at 3x8-10. seems really slow on the progression.
What is your max set? If you can hit 10-12 then feel free to start adding a bit of weight and reducing the reps if you are getting bored/annoyed. I always found it more fun to do 3-6 rep workouts at a higher difficulty, and it should increase your strength nicely as long as your goal isn't 50 reps or something very endurance based.
Just a warning for later, be careful how you add weight, when you are just running a few pound its fine to rig up whatever backpack or bag or whatever, but when you get up to like 20lbs get a dipping belt and/or be very careful because you don't want that weight falling and breaking your feet.....bags and stuff split at surprisingly low weights under the stress of coming down from a pull.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Najda United States. November 28 2011 10:14. Posts 1771
What are the advantages of bodyweight training? Is it more effective if you are going for an athletic build where activities such as running, gymnastics, dance (I'm thinking a heavily physical dance like bboying), or sports are a commonplace? Or is it simply an alternative to hitting the gym.
Before I started working out at all I was going to do bodyweight training just because it seemed more natural and convenient but after I learned about StartingStrength I decided to do that instead, so these are the two programs I'm comparing.
"Admit your flaws, admire your weakness, hone your imperfections – then may you address your desires." — Paul Crik
eshlow United States. November 28 2011 13:32. Posts 5013
Just grab a DB and hold it between your feet if you don't have dip belt. That works all the way up to 30-40kg/70-80 lbs for most people. Holding heavier DBs between your feet than that can be tough though.
@ Najda
Alternative to hitting the gym. Properly programmed you can make slightly better strength increases (but it's hard to program effectively), but less mass increases than barbells from what I've seen.
And it's very useful for sports where you manipulate your body like you listed.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
jjhchsc2 Korea (South). November 28 2011 13:40. Posts 2390
On November 27 2011 16:00 jjhchsc2 wrote: @ sobek i am at 3x6 reps right now and i just want to start weighting them at 3x8-10. seems really slow on the progression.
What is your max set? If you can hit 10-12 then feel free to start adding a bit of weight and reducing the reps if you are getting bored/annoyed. I always found it more fun to do 3-6 rep workouts at a higher difficulty, and it should increase your strength nicely as long as your goal isn't 50 reps or something very endurance based.
Just a warning for later, be careful how you add weight, when you are just running a few pound its fine to rig up whatever backpack or bag or whatever, but when you get up to like 20lbs get a dipping belt and/or be very careful because you don't want that weight falling and breaking your feet.....bags and stuff split at surprisingly low weights under the stress of coming down from a pull.
i will check today or whenever i am not currently injured.
Lee Ssang/ Lee Shin/ Kim Jung Woo/ Kim Min Chul/Jun Tae Yang/Park Soo Ho/Lee Jung Hoon/Choi Sung Hoon/ Moon Sung Won/Park Ji Soo/ Lee Ho Joon/ Jang Min Chul/ Kim Seung Chul/SaSe/IdrA/Ret Fighting! BW4Life
sob3k United States. November 28 2011 14:57. Posts 4667
On November 28 2011 10:14 Najda wrote: What are the advantages of bodyweight training? Is it more effective if you are going for an athletic build where activities such as running, gymnastics, dance (I'm thinking a heavily physical dance like bboying), or sports are a commonplace? Or is it simply an alternative to hitting the gym.
Before I started working out at all I was going to do bodyweight training just because it seemed more natural and convenient but after I learned about StartingStrength I decided to do that instead, so these are the two programs I'm comparing.
The advantage with bodyweight training is that you are focusing on multiple muscle groups performing a practical movement together. You don't have to worry about getting fat biceps but being unable to do anything with them because they are disproportionately strong to the other muscles you need to do a real world task.You will be full body strong. Bodyweight training is great if you are interested in really developing functional strength, if you want to be able to just get around any obstacle and be useful then bodyweight training is a good way to go. Yes, If you are interested in activities like climbing/dance/gymnastics/parkour/martial arts then bodyweight training is great because you can train doing the movements you want to perform out in the real world.
Of course its silly to just think of doing weights OR bodyweight exercises, they're both great and you should be mixing them for good results no matter what kind of fitness you are into. Its depressing to see guys who can bench 300lbs and cant do a single pullup, but likewise you will have much greater strength gains in many skills if you isolate and do weight training. How you mix bodyweight and weighted depends on your goals.
You wanna get big and impress people with your deadlift more: you're going to do more lifts and weights.
You wanna be able to move anywhere in your environment and crank out handstand presses: you're going to do more bodyweight training.
but you should always be doing a bit of both
Last edit: 2011-11-28 14:58:06
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Necosarius Sweden. December 04 2011 05:41. Posts 3485
As you know I've been doing SS and I just want to keep as much strength as possible without going to the gym for about 2 months. How do you suggest I do? I've mostly been looking into Building the gymnastics body but if you know some easier/better stuff then I would like to hear it ^^ Should I do pull/press or static exercises? Or maybe both? I've been thinking of doing pullups, dips, push up variations and work on planche. Too much? How to train legs? ;_;
And I don't have rings
20090211~MSL Forever~Brood War for Life~gg no re~RIP Violet <3
phyre112 United States. December 04 2011 06:55. Posts 2320
Just grab a DB and hold it between your feet if you don't have dip belt. That works all the way up to 30-40kg/70-80 lbs for most people. Holding heavier DBs between your feet than that can be tough though.
@ Najda
Alternative to hitting the gym. Properly programmed you can make slightly better strength increases (but it's hard to program effectively), but less mass increases than barbells from what I've seen.
And it's very useful for sports where you manipulate your body like you listed.
Just a note at holding the dumbbells, You want to hold it so that the weight is vertical, and you're basically holding on to the top weight part, with your ankles (or whatever part of the leg) where the handle is. I've seen people try to place it horizontally, and it just doesn't work out for them. Much harder to balance, and you need a friend to get it on their for you.
"Limitations are for people that have them and excuses are for people that need them"
sob3k United States. December 04 2011 08:01. Posts 4667
On December 04 2011 05:41 Necosarius wrote: As you know I've been doing SS and I just want to keep as much strength as possible without going to the gym for about 2 months. How do you suggest I do? I've mostly been looking into Building the gymnastics body but if you know some easier/better stuff then I would like to hear it ^^ Should I do pull/press or static exercises? Or maybe both? I've been thinking of doing pullups, dips, push up variations and work on planche. Too much? How to train legs? ;_;
And I don't have rings
the big bodyweight exercises like pullups/dips/pushups are always good, and trying a progression for a harder skill like planche/muscleups/onearmpushups will be great for max strength as well as being interesting. I would advise going over to beastskills and looking for a skill you think would be cool and just working the progressions he has posted.
For legs you have running (that's bodyweight bro!), and you can also do some plyometric (jumping) exercises for max power and increased vertical. You can also toss in a some fast pistol squats (one leg) to improve power and balance.
If you can find a nice solid wall in the right height range (7-10ft), I would heartily recommend doing some sets of wallruns and learning that skill. Its a very useful movement and will absolutely destroy your legs in a few reps. You can also tack on a mantle to the finish which will work your arms/abs ridiculously as well. Full wallrun/mantles are one of the best fullbody workouts I have ever done.
Plus working towards this kind of mantling power is a great and ridiculously tough objective
Last edit: 2011-12-04 08:02:01
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
jjhchsc2 Korea (South). December 12 2011 11:23. Posts 2390
On November 27 2011 16:00 jjhchsc2 wrote: @ sobek i am at 3x6 reps right now and i just want to start weighting them at 3x8-10. seems really slow on the progression.
What is your max set? If you can hit 10-12 then feel free to start adding a bit of weight and reducing the reps if you are getting bored/annoyed. I always found it more fun to do 3-6 rep workouts at a higher difficulty, and it should increase your strength nicely as long as your goal isn't 50 reps or something very endurance based.
Just a warning for later, be careful how you add weight, when you are just running a few pound its fine to rig up whatever backpack or bag or whatever, but when you get up to like 20lbs get a dipping belt and/or be very careful because you don't want that weight falling and breaking your feet.....bags and stuff split at surprisingly low weights under the stress of coming down from a pull.
max set is 7 with more than shoulder width apart and concentric style(feet touching the floor every rep) is it ok to do weighted concentrics and then move onto full pullups? i have been doing shoulder width apart for like a month and found out that is bad form for lat development...
goals are size and strength obv
Last edit: 2011-12-12 11:24:44
Lee Ssang/ Lee Shin/ Kim Jung Woo/ Kim Min Chul/Jun Tae Yang/Park Soo Ho/Lee Jung Hoon/Choi Sung Hoon/ Moon Sung Won/Park Ji Soo/ Lee Ho Joon/ Jang Min Chul/ Kim Seung Chul/SaSe/IdrA/Ret Fighting! BW4Life
eshlow United States. December 12 2011 11:52. Posts 5013
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