[Q]Ideal Organization

Remember the Protoss gateway placement thread from a while ago?

Well, I've been thinking of what makes for a well-designed base. What elements does a main need to be optimal?

Of course, many things are preference, but there are definitely certain configurations that are better than others. One I am very fond of, but don't actually use too much in my games, is the diamond placement (diamond configuration). Another thing is that the different races definitely have different necessities in different situations, e.g. in Terran MnM, rax placement is rather straightforward v.s the art required for Zerg nat walling.

It is an area in which all the AI agents I've seen are oblivious to, or at least do not spend much calculation on -- the standard integrated AI in SC:BW simply uses a sort of spiral search, and is wholly ignorant of map properties. (An interesting example this obliviousness is on Desti where the standard AI will attempt to expand to the 0-mineral choke)

So I just wanted to ask the community, perhaps to gain some insight for a possible new computer science project, about the elements of optimal building placement of specific races and in general.

I like corsairs.

J.Dong United States. December 11 2011 13:48. Posts 83

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Is there like any guideline as to where pylons should go in the main or comments on Zerg 3rd hatchery placement? Like is a macro hatch better or a hatch blocking the nat choke? like any building placement words of wisdom? or is it just a experimental thing "it worked last time so I'll do it again"?

I like corsairs.

evilfatsh1t Korea (South). December 11 2011 21:23. Posts 855

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you want to try and get as many production buildings as you can into 1 screen. thats the most important
next is making sure you sim city the base properly so that workers and units can move around freely. eg if you get vulture dropped and your buildings are all clumped next to each other your army has to walk around your base to defend against the harrass. you could just as easily prevent this by creating some space in between buildings. probs more important for terran because scvs dont fit through buildings like probes do

other than these the rest is preference
some people might want to attempt to hide their tech from scans and put it in the corner, while others might just place it around the back in plain sight etc
as for 3rd hatchery placement inside the base is better imo because you cant perfectly block a nat choke with a hatchery alone, and against terran if they decide to push out you dont want to lose the hatchery before your sunkens or something

sheaRZerg United States. December 14 2011 04:26. Posts 513

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On December 11 2011 13:48 J.Dong wrote:
Is there like any guideline as to where pylons should go in the main or comments on Zerg 3rd hatchery placement? Like is a macro hatch better or a hatch blocking the nat choke? like any building placement words of wisdom? or is it just a experimental thing "it worked last time so I'll do it again"?

I assume with the zerg 3rd hatchery placement you are are talking about ZvT...In that case the two choices serve two different purposes. The one blocking the natural is pretty much an anti-vulture harass move, to give them less space to slip by. If you happened to see them fast gas before you had placed it for instance, or were particularly worried about 1 base mech openings on a map you would do this. The "macro hatch" being placed at some place in the main away from the first two hatches is almost entirely to minimize terran scouting efficiency. Since in a standard game the terran will have exactly two scans to determine the zergs tech path, there is potentially a 1/3 chance of him not seeing the spire/den...or if he scans it in the third position he does not get the information of drone saturation in one of the bases/ number of sunkens placed if he omits the scan of the natural.

"Dude, just don't listen to what I say; listen to what I mean." -Sean Plott

Puyi United States. December 14 2011 05:50. Posts 161

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As others said above, you want as many production buildings as possible to fit in a sceensave. Also, if you are asking about walls theres certain rules you should remember for each race.
For zerg a hydra den to the right or left of a hatchery will always be zealot proof. Evo chamber up and down from a hydra den is also zealot proof. Spire is good for a wall on all four sides of the hatchery.
For terran supply depots above one another is zergling proof. A rax under a supply depot is zergling proof. Any supply depot next to each other is zealot proof and a depot right of a rax is zealot proof.
For protoss the top and left side of a forge is good for a wall. Gateway is the bottom and right side.

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