| name_lock Canada. December 09 2011 01:57. Posts 30 | Profile # |
What's the general response to either gasless 2rax expand -> marine poke or that 1rax gasless fe-> 3 more rax gasless marine poke? It usually hits at ~40-50 supply so I only have 1 or 2 warp in cycles of units. I have to either pull probes to defend or let my nexus tank for a while to hold it. If he brings SCVs I risk losing the expansion.
I don't lose to it but I'm just wondering what the standard/most optimal response to it is. |
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| monk United States. December 09 2011 02:40. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
On December 09 2011 01:57 name_lock wrote:
What's the general response to either gasless 2rax expand -> marine poke or that 1rax gasless fe-> 3 more rax gasless marine poke? It usually hits at ~40-50 supply so I only have 1 or 2 warp in cycles of units. I have to either pull probes to defend or let my nexus tank for a while to hold it. If he brings SCVs I risk losing the expansion.
I don't lose to it but I'm just wondering what the standard/most optimal response to it is.
Not the right thread to post this, but stalker kiting is the answer to both. 2 rax gasless expand is very rare and 2 rax gasless is mostly used as an allin. |
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| SkyBlaze Canada. December 09 2011 07:42. Posts 158 | Profile # |
I need some help with the 1gate expand part when the tarren does a 2 rax with shell. I've been told I can kill it with the 1 zealot and 2 stalkers and with gate,gate,gas,pylon. there is a small timing where I can get a extra unit, usually a zealot. I know this might sound greedy but I don't want to pull probes if possible. With all that said is there a game where a Protoss does this build Vs 2rax with shell?
I can post a replay if that would help
and if my NA rank matters I am a Master's Protoss.
btw if they don't 2 rax with shell or i am still alive I usually win due to the power of this build and the timing you have as the protoss. |
| | | （╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ | ┻━┻ ︵╰(°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ |
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| monk United States. December 09 2011 07:53. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
On December 09 2011 07:42 SkyBlaze wrote:
I need some help with the 1gate expand part when the tarren does a 2 rax with shell. I've been told I can kill it with the 1 zealot and 2 stalkers and with gate,gate,gas,pylon. there is a small timing where I can get a extra unit, usually a zealot. I know this might sound greedy but I don't want to pull probes if possible. With all that said is there a game where a Protoss does this build Vs 2rax with shell?
I can post a replay if that would help
and if my NA rank matters I am a Master's Protoss.
btw if they don't 2 rax with shell or i am still alive I usually win due to the power of this build and the timing you have as the protoss.
I specifically said the early game is not within the scope of this guide. I'm working on a guide involving a safe version of 1 gate expand. It should be up in the next month or so wait patiently. The short answer for you is that if you just keep chronoing out stalkers and add 2 gates at a good time, you can hold it off without pulling probes as long as your opponent doesn't pull to many scvs. |
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| Huntz December 09 2011 07:53. Posts 164 | Profile # |
On December 08 2011 04:35 NrGmonk wrote:
Next guide: MC's 1 gate FE
Is MC's 1 gate FE your recommended/go-to opener for this style? If not, would you suggest a particular one?
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| kcdc United States. December 09 2011 08:01. Posts 2311 | Profile Blog # | |
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| Tazerenix Australia. December 09 2011 09:54. Posts 340 | Profile # |
Mother of God.
Just tried this on the korean server, I wasn't even doing the build totally correct (missed the timing for my 4th and 5th gateways by a small margin of 2 minutes lol) and I had 3/3 by 16:30 and was maxed before then. What an amazing style, I love it.
Diamond League KR by the way. |
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| unit United States. December 09 2011 14:58. Posts 2543 | Profile Blog # |
greedy but still wrecks 2rax xD
this guide is so useful, ive just been doing this without getting the immortals, so i started getting the immortals, the difference that they make is amazing, also i thought that 4rax was standard not 3 T_T |
| | "It's not trying to be perfect; it's being yourself."-Liquid'NonY |
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| Forbidden17 December 09 2011 20:28. Posts 664 | Profile # |
Hi kcdc I was wondering if you knew the main difference between MC's 1gate FE and your old 1gate FE? If you are not familiar with MC's style, or you feel it more appropriate to just wait for Monk to release his guide it's okay.
Thanks for writing your guides by the way, they're very clean and to the point with just enough making it nice to read. |
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| Teoita Italy. December 09 2011 22:45. Posts 4255 | Profile Blog # |
| Could you please share some of your own replays? I would like to compare the timings for when stuff goes down and unit counts when i try this build, and when better players do. Thanks a lot! |
| | Protoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright. |
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| ant-1 Canada. December 10 2011 00:25. Posts 139 | Profile Blog # |
| I'm only plat, so all the details about "make only two immortal, else you'll miss some gas for..." fly way above me, but... But this guide is priceless, for its "Reaction to initial scouting" part. Really. A must read. Monk, I want to marry you. |
| | The Days Run Away Like Wild Horses Over the Hills |
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| monk United States. December 10 2011 00:31. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
On December 09 2011 20:28 Forbidden17 wrote:Hi kcdc I was wondering if you knew the main difference between MC's 1gate FE and your old 1gate FE? If you are not familiar with MC's style, or you feel it more appropriate to just wait for Monk to release his guide it's okay. Thanks for writing your guides by the way, they're very clean and to the point with just enough making it nice to read.
MC's is safer in that you can hold early pressures while pulling less probes and better overall versus proxies.
The other advantage is that you can make less of a judgement call on the robo timing. With kcdc's new build, you have to choose between 2 gate robo and 3 gate robo.
The advantages of kcdc's new build are that it gets 2 probes less and a 15 seconds later nexus.
You also get one early sentry to build up energy with kcdc's build.Last edit: 2011-12-10 00:32:40 |
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| vaderseven United States. December 10 2011 02:14. Posts 2204 | Profile # |
I am a visual learner when I go off of a style that I didn't research first hand myself and I thought I might share a visual aid I made based on the opening post.
+ Show Spoiler +
Please let me know if there is a correction that should be made as I can fix any errors and update that.
Question: What do you feel is the best gateway count on 4 and 5 bases? If a game goes long enoigg to hit that many bases do you ever add a 2nd robo to help with a faster change back into collossus?
edited with input you added below.Last edit: 2011-12-10 03:01:55 |
| | ♥TL Mafia Game, check us out and play with us in the TL Mafia section! / If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Zapp B. | |
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| FXOTheoRy United States. December 10 2011 02:24. Posts 413 | Profile Blog # |
| really helpful guide. please create more :D thanks! |
| | oyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoy |
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| monk United States. December 10 2011 02:28. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
On December 10 2011 02:14 vaderseven wrote:I am a viaual learner when I go off of a style that I didn't research first hand myself and I thought I might share a visual aid I made based on the opening post. Please let me know if there is a correction that should be made as I can fix any errors and update that. Question: What do you feel is the best gateway count on 4 and 5 bases? If a game goes long enoigg to hit that many bases do you ever add a 2nd robo to help with a faster change back into collossus?
You gotta use TL's image upload method to directly add images to your post. I had to check the code for your post to check the image.
You should confirm your opponent is on 2 base before you even start forges. Thus, your first 2 offshoots aren't really right. I almost meant you shouldn't do this strategy vs a 2 base marine tank banshee.
I don't think it's within the scope of this guide to recommend what to do versus mech, and I personally do something different vs mech than what you suggest, so no comment there.
I'm planning on slightly changing my recommendations for templar vs archons, so wait for that.
You can't spell medivacs.
I usually end up on 10 gates on 3 base for a normal game and at the very minimum add 2 gates for each additional base i get. However, it really depends on your bank and how many gates you can afford.
2nd robo is good for longer games.
Btw is this what you do at work?Last edit: 2011-12-10 02:29:20 |
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| vaderseven United States. December 10 2011 02:33. Posts 2204 | Profile # |
Depends on the day. Seeing as I basically buy things for the hospital and clean up patient assignments and monitor workload reports.... and half the staff is on vacation....
Ya today things like this is what your tax dollars are going towards. I fixed the tags before you posted. |
| | ♥TL Mafia Game, check us out and play with us in the TL Mafia section! / If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Zapp B. | |
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| Forbidden17 December 10 2011 04:51. Posts 664 | Profile # |
On December 10 2011 00:31 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 20:28 Forbidden17 wrote:Hi kcdc I was wondering if you knew the main difference between MC's 1gate FE and your old 1gate FE? If you are not familiar with MC's style, or you feel it more appropriate to just wait for Monk to release his guide it's okay. Thanks for writing your guides by the way, they're very clean and to the point with just enough making it nice to read.
MC's is safer in that you can hold early pressures while pulling less probes and better overall versus proxies. The other advantage is that you can make less of a judgement call on the robo timing. With kcdc's new build, you have to choose between 2 gate robo and 3 gate robo. The advantages of kcdc's new build are that it gets 2 probes less and a 15 seconds later nexus. You also get one early sentry to build up energy with kcdc's build.
I was referring to his old 30 Nexus one (not his new 27nexus) that got 2 stalkers before Nexus and cut probes to throw down 2 more gateways if you scout pressure. His new one has a window where it is slightly more vulnerable but should still be able to deal with most terran aggression.
And did you mean a 15second earlier nexus? I'm pretty sure his 27nexus was faster than MC's? |
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| monk United States. December 10 2011 05:05. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
On December 10 2011 04:51 Forbidden17 wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 00:31 NrGmonk wrote:
On December 09 2011 20:28 Forbidden17 wrote:Hi kcdc I was wondering if you knew the main difference between MC's 1gate FE and your old 1gate FE? If you are not familiar with MC's style, or you feel it more appropriate to just wait for Monk to release his guide it's okay. Thanks for writing your guides by the way, they're very clean and to the point with just enough making it nice to read.
MC's is safer in that you can hold early pressures while pulling less probes and better overall versus proxies. The other advantage is that you can make less of a judgement call on the robo timing. With kcdc's new build, you have to choose between 2 gate robo and 3 gate robo. The advantages of kcdc's new build are that it gets 2 probes less and a 15 seconds later nexus. You also get one early sentry to build up energy with kcdc's build.
I was referring to his old 30 Nexus one (not his new 27nexus) that got 2 stalkers before Nexus and cut probes to throw down 2 more gateways if you scout pressure. His new one has a window where it is slightly more vulnerable but should still be able to deal with most terran aggression. And did you mean a 15second earlier nexus? I'm pretty sure his 27nexus was faster than MC's?
Yea I meant earlier nexus. My bad
Compared to kcdc's old build, MC's build skips the sentry as the 4th unit instead opting for a faster robo with that 100 gas. In addition, it relies on a chornoed 1st gateway instead of chornoed warpgates to hold off any pressures. This is mostly because of the wg change that made kcdc's old build obsolete.
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| kcdc United States. December 10 2011 05:55. Posts 2311 | Profile Blog # |
On December 10 2011 00:31 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 20:28 Forbidden17 wrote:Hi kcdc I was wondering if you knew the main difference between MC's 1gate FE and your old 1gate FE? If you are not familiar with MC's style, or you feel it more appropriate to just wait for Monk to release his guide it's okay. Thanks for writing your guides by the way, they're very clean and to the point with just enough making it nice to read.
MC's is safer in that you can hold early pressures while pulling less probes and better overall versus proxies. The other advantage is that you can make less of a judgement call on the robo timing. With kcdc's new build, you have to choose between 2 gate robo and 3 gate robo. The advantages of kcdc's new build are that it gets 2 probes less and a 15 seconds later nexus. You also get one early sentry to build up energy with kcdc's build.
Don't want to derail this thread too much. This is mostly right except that the nexus is earlier, not later, and choosing between 2 gate robo and 3 gate robo isn't a critical judgement call--both are perfectly safe if you play them right. The judgement is more about what you want to do in mid-game and less about what you have to do to stay alive. Looking forward to a more thorough discussion of 1 gate FE's in your next guide, Monk. |
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| ReachTheSky United States. December 10 2011 06:03. Posts 2341 | Profile # |
| Good guide, very solid build. Thanks for posting this broseph |
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