Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Chat
irc.quakenet.org #teamliquid
IRC Web ClientTeamSpeak 3 (69 users) | |
|
| monk United States. December 13 2011 10:58. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
The following is MC’s version of the classic 1 gate fast expand. He uses it widely in his PvT macro games and transitions into a variety of strategies after. Various koreans have also done very slight variations of the build. This build, I believe, is THE safest, most solid variation of the 1 gate expansion. By cutting a few probes, skipping early sentries, and getting a fast robo combined with good reads, you will be able to effectively stop anything your opponent can throw at you. In addition to a 1 gate FE guide, this guide will serve as a mini early game PvT guide.
When to do this build:
This build is the safest version of 1 gate fe and thus can be done on any map. (Calm before the storm is a stretch though.) It’s also not the best build versus no gas 1 rax fe. Thus, if you can scout that your opponent got no gas, then I would recommend a different build. The build shines on a map like xelnaga caverns where aggressive builds like 1-1-1 and 2 rax dominate.
Initial Build Order:
9 Pylon
*chronoboost probes
13 Gateway
*chronoboost probes
14 Gas
15 Pylon
*chronoboost probes
17 Core
18 Zealot
22 Warpgates
22 Stalker
*chronoboost stalker
24 Pylon
*chronoboost stalker
26 Stalker
*cut probes at 30 supply
30 Nexus
*Mandatory scouting poke
Mandatory scouting poke versus gas builds
This is one of the most important parts of the build and another one of many safety measures incorporated in the build. The fact is that with any 1 gate expansion build, you will need some kind of early game scouting to know whether to prepare for either bio pressure or later tech. The following is my particular favorite way to scout. Note that although MC has done this before, he doesn’t do so in all of his games, but he always scouts in one way or another.
Push out with your first zealot/stalker towards your opponent’s base. At the same time, make sure you have vision between your units and his base with your initial scouting probe. This makes sure your main units will not get caught offguard. Now, poke up his ramp, leading with your probe. If you spot a marauder shot, a bunker, a large handful of marines, or his reactor timing on his barracks, do not continue with your units. If you only see 1-3 marines, however, use your zealot/stalker to attack up his ramp, either doing a lot of damage or forcing him to show you his units. The rest of your build will depend on what you see.
Scenario 1: Marauder
- 75% 1 rax tech lab fe, either marauder/reaper first
- 10% 2 rax tech lab/naked
- 5% 3 rax
- 5% marauder/hellion push
- 5% some tricky allin
Rest of Build:+ Show Spoiler +30 Gateway
30 Gateway
30 Gas
30 Stalker
32 Pylon
*Resume probe production
~34 Robo
Scenario 2: 3+ marines with no bunker or already built reactor
- 80% 2 rax reactor/tech lab
- 10% 1 rax reactor expand
- 10% other
Rest of Build:+ Show Spoiler +30 Stalker
*chronoboost stalker
32 Gateway
32 Gateway
32 Pylon
32 Stalker
*chronoboost stalker
34 gas
*Resume probe production
~35 Robo
Scenario 3: Bunker or building reactor: no%s listed, because there’s too many options
- some variation on marine tank banshee allin
- 1 rax reactor expand
- marine/hellion/medivac drop
- some other hellion opening
- 2 port banshee
- 2 rax 1 fact marine tank push
- 1-1-1 expand
- 3 rax bio based allin
Rest of Build:+ Show Spoiler +30 Gateway
30 Gateway
30 Robo
30 Gas
*Resume probe production and chronoboost probes
31 Pylon
2 observers out of robo
I won't go into detail about how to stop each of these possibilities, but there are 3 I want to highlight.
- Marine/hellion/medivac drop: If you do not have ~5 stalkers in proper positions by the time this hits, you will be in a lot of trouble.
- Marine tank push: This push hits at about 7:20 and cannot be scouted in time with an observer. Thus, you must have a probe/stalker outside of the Terran's base in case he moves out with marine tank. If you see this push coming, immediately cancel your 2nd observer for an immortal and chornoboost both your robo and your gateways, making nothing but immortals, zealots, and up to 2 sentries. Even with an exact response, this can be hard to hold.
- Marine/Tank/banshee allin: Refer to this for more info on how to stop this popular push.
FAQs
Why such a fast robo?
This is the fastest robo in any 1 gate expand into 3 gate robo build I’ve ever seen. The reason for the fast robo is safety. Timing-wise, your 2nd observer will be popping out at around the same time as the first cloaked banshee comes to your base. However, more importantly, the faster your first observer gets to your opponent’s base, the faster you can know if he’s 1 basing you or has expanded. This scouting information is invaluable, as it tells you whether you should cut probes to optimally defend an allin or chorno probes to gain economy versus a expansion build.
Why stalker as your 3rd unit?
A 2nd stalker early allows for early game map control. The zealot/stalker/stalker combination will beat any unit combination the Terran can muster at the timing when the 2nd stalker comes out. The best army the terran can have at this point is marine/marauder/marauder, so if the terran overextends with a 1 rax tech lab or 2 rax tech lab/naked pressure, you will crush it. The 2 stalkers can also easily kite marines if your opponent is doing some type of marine allin or if he’s overtending with marine in a standard 2 rax. Finally, in general, the 2nd stalker just allows for much easier defense against any bio pressures.
Why no early game sentry?
The reasons for this are 2 fold. First, an early sentry from a 1 gate 1 gas expand is quite useless versus any early bio pressure. Secondly, if you skip an early sentry, you can get a robo out much earlier than most 1 gate expansion builds, adding to the safety of the build as explained above.
Why always 3 gate robo and not 1 gate robo sometimes?
Even assuming you somehow scout a factory in your opponent’s base, it is not safe to go 1 gate robo. Popular builds including reactor hellion openings and the 3 hellion/7 marine/1 medivac drop will decimate anyone who attempts to skimp on early gateways.
Example replays/vods:
MC vs Puma, IEM Cologne finals Game 1: vs 1-1-1
+ Show Spoiler +Shows MC’s execution versus 1-1-1. Even though he eventually loses in this game, it is not because he couldn’t hold the inital 1-1-1 push. In this replay, you can see the general outline of how to stop the 1-1-1. He does it almost perfectly, but here are some things you can improve on to stop the 1-1-1.:
No 3rd gas
Faster 4th and 5th gates
Cut probes earlier, probably around 36 instead of 38
Try to flank with a few zealots/an immortal
MC vs MVP, MLG Providence Game 1: vs 2 rax
+ Show Spoiler +Shows MC’s execution versus the standard 2 rax. MC has one less stalker than is possible during the first push as his scouting poke is later than I recommend. However, with his probe poke, he sees mass marines, signaling either 2 rax or a reactor expand. Notice how even though MC confirms 2 rax, he still goes for an early robo as soon as possible. This is very useful as he scouts MVP’s 1 base play early and prepares accordingly for the allin.
MC vs Poyo Daybreak
MC vs Cloud Dual Sight
+ Show Spoiler +Note: This guide isn't as complete as I would like it to be, but I got bored for now. Perhaps I'll update it more later.
Also, I'm out of ideas for another guide so I'll take some suggestions. Last edit: 2012-01-06 17:33:52 |
| |
|
| Yoshi Kirishima United States. December 13 2011 10:59. Posts 9003 | Profile Blog # |
Hurray a new and improved "Best" 1 gate expand build xD
THANK YOU!
I love MC 
MC vs MVP? epic
The scenarios with the % is really neat Last edit: 2011-12-13 11:00:37 |
| | Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again." | |
|
|
| Tazerenix Australia. December 13 2011 11:02. Posts 340 | Profile # |
Spelling mistake in first line btw.
This is an excellent build that I myself have been doing a lot on the korean server. The advantage of getting a fast robo is so great and I'm never caught offguard by any sort of terran fast tech. This is pretty much optimal for dealing with a 1-1-1 and you can very easily transition into the new CreatorPrime style that was recently released. Definitely worth looking at. |
|
|
| CaptainHaz United States. December 13 2011 11:06. Posts 239 | Profile # |
I find that 13/17 core has pretty much the same timing as 12/17 in terms of when you get you stalker out. Any reason for the 12 gate?
Also, I'm curious what quick expand build you'd recommend if not this on certain maps. For the most part I stick to huk's 20 nexus build if I scout 2nd supply depot.
timing on his Barack
His what? |
| | All of us warned you of the big white face. |
|
|
| Tazerenix Australia. December 13 2011 11:10. Posts 340 | Profile # |
On December 13 2011 11:06 CaptainHaz wrote:I find that 13/17 core has pretty much the same timing as 12/17 in terms of when you get you stalker out. Any reason for the 12 gate? Also, I'm curious what quick expand build you'd recommend if not this on certain maps. For the most part I stick to huk's 20 nexus build if I scout 2nd supply depot. His what?
I believe HuK himself said his 20 food nexus had some flaws against 2 rax reactor first, that's what he said at least.
On really big maps I like to do the Axslav style Nexus first. Against gas you go pylon nexus gateway pylon gateway gas core and chrono out your first few zealots whilst getting a second gas then chronoing stalkers to hold any sort of fast 2 rax rush, and if you scout no gas you can just go 1 gate chronoboosting out of it then dropping 2 more gates some time after your core is up. On something like cross positions Shattered/Meta, TDA, cross Antiga and Shakuras it's amazingly safe against anything but scv allins. |
|
|
| monk United States. December 13 2011 11:11. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
On December 13 2011 11:02 Tazerenix wrote:
Spelling mistake in first line btw.
This is an excellent build that I myself have been doing a lot on the korean server. The advantage of getting a fast robo is so great and I'm never caught offguard by any sort of terran fast tech. This is pretty much optimal for dealing with a 1-1-1 and you can very easily transition into the new CreatorPrime style that was recently released. Definitely worth looking at.
Don't see it.
On December 13 2011 11:06 CaptainHaz wrote:I find that 13/17 core has pretty much the same timing as 12/17 in terms of when you get you stalker out. Any reason for the 12 gate? Also, I'm curious what quick expand build you'd recommend if not this on certain maps. For the most part I stick to huk's 20 nexus build if I scout 2nd supply depot. His what?
Should be 13 gate, thanks. Fixed spelling mistake. Autocorrect probably changed it to Barack Obama. Tbh this, and other greedy versions of this are my personal recommendations on almost all maps. But many other fast expands are also certainly very viable. |
| |
|
| OxyFuel Canada. December 13 2011 11:13. Posts 190 | Profile # |
| You outdo yourself with every guide! Thank you so much for this. Question though. Why is this not good vs 1 rax gasless fe. If Terran gasless fe's all they have his marines for a while and they are pretty defensive. Since you are both FE at a similar time shouldn't it be fairly even? |
| | Flash | Boxer | qxc | KawaiiRice | LuckyFool | Avilo |
|
|
| Tazerenix Australia. December 13 2011 11:13. Posts 340 | Profile # |
On December 13 2011 11:11 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 11:02 Tazerenix wrote:
Spelling mistake in first line btw.
This is an excellent build that I myself have been doing a lot on the korean server. The advantage of getting a fast robo is so great and I'm never caught offguard by any sort of terran fast tech. This is pretty much optimal for dealing with a 1-1-1 and you can very easily transition into the new CreatorPrime style that was recently released. Definitely worth looking at.
Don't see it.
...version of the classic 1 gate fast exapnd...
You're Welcome |
|
|
| monk United States. December 13 2011 11:14. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
On December 13 2011 11:13 Tazerenix wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 11:11 NrGmonk wrote:
On December 13 2011 11:02 Tazerenix wrote:
Spelling mistake in first line btw.
This is an excellent build that I myself have been doing a lot on the korean server. The advantage of getting a fast robo is so great and I'm never caught offguard by any sort of terran fast tech. This is pretty much optimal for dealing with a 1-1-1 and you can very easily transition into the new CreatorPrime style that was recently released. Definitely worth looking at.
Don't see it.
You're Welcome
Yea, saw it right after I posted my first response <.<. |
| |
|
| Tazerenix Australia. December 13 2011 11:15. Posts 340 | Profile # |
On December 13 2011 11:13 OxyFuel wrote:
You outdo yourself with every guide! Thank you so much for this. Question though. Why is this not good vs 1 rax gasless fe. If Terran gasless fe's all they have his marines for a while and they are pretty defensive. Since you are both FE at a similar time shouldn't it be fairly even?
You don't FE at similar times. A 1 rax gasless FE is going to get the CC very quickly, a lot faster than your nexus. Even though you get your nexus quite fast with this build, it's still going to be slower. If you scout the 1 rax CC fast enough you can drop the Nexus before your second stalker, or even before your first stalker (as I've seen SaSe do on his stream) or just scrap the FE, drop 3 gateways and perhaps proxy 2 more and go for a 5 gate allin, map dependant. |
|
|
| monk United States. December 13 2011 11:16. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
On December 13 2011 11:13 OxyFuel wrote:
You outdo yourself with every guide! Thank you so much for this. Question though. Why is this not good vs 1 rax gasless fe. If Terran gasless fe's all they have his marines for a while and they are pretty defensive. Since you are both FE at a similar time shouldn't it be fairly even?
Versus 1 rax gasless expand, if you follow this build exactly, your nexus will start at the same time your opponent's CC finishes. Thus, you will be quite behind. |
| |
|
| Geiko France. December 13 2011 11:17. Posts 1603 | Profile Blog # |
If we're going to be correcting mistakes, you might as well change the "chornoboost" in the BO.
Sometimes greedy terran just plant their CC in plain view at their natural, you might want to add that you don't need a Robo at all in this case. (or if you get a lucky CC scout). Sometimes MC doesn't get his robo if he only suspects a gasless FE.
An idea for a next guide would be : how do you gateway first against Zerg anymore ? The classic 3 gate sentry expand is useless and all the current guides are FFE openings. Would be great if you could write something about good ways to play with gateway first in PvZ. Last edit: 2011-12-13 11:21:02 |
| |
|
| Alejandrisha United States. December 13 2011 11:23. Posts 5003 | Profile Blog # |
this build that mc started using a while back was actually pretty ahead of its time. i thought a lot of his 30 gate 30 gate 30 robo 30 pylon plays were kind of erring on the safe side, but now that T's are really abusing the lack of scouting and opting for more hellion drop / marine + 2 tank pushes, this build still holds its weight.
great writeup! |
| | probes get rich or die mining. | |
|
|
| monk United States. December 13 2011 11:24. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
On December 13 2011 11:17 Geiko wrote:
If we're going to be correcting mistakes, you might as well change the "chornoboost" in the BO.
Sometimes greedy terran just plant their CC in plain view at their natural, you might want to add that you don't need a Robo at all in this case. (or if you get a lucky CC scout). Sometimes MC doesn't get his robo if he only suspects a gasless FE.
I noticed i have "chronoboost" in my guide about 10 times and pretty much 5 of them were spelled "chornoboost". This guide is mainly gears for versus gas builds and if you notice the structure, there's no real logical place to put that tip. Plus, you can still get a robo versus no gas, but it's not necessary. |
| |
|
| Tazerenix Australia. December 13 2011 11:24. Posts 340 | Profile # |
On December 13 2011 11:17 Geiko wrote:
An idea for a next guide would be : how do you gateway first against Zerg anymore ? The classic 3 gate sentry expand is useless and all the current guides are FFE openings. Would be great if you could write something about good ways to play with gateway first in PvZ.
YES PLEASE
I hate going gateway first against zerg anymore, it feels so uneconomical and my sentry pushes are easily shutdown by 2 crawlers and a hand full of lings.
I wouldn't say the 3 gate sentry expand is completely useless, but most of the time I'll be 1 gate FEing, walling off ramp to nexus with me 2nd and 3rd gateways. Perhaps 2 gate stargate play is the future of gateway first openings against zerg? |
|
|
| Amornthep Singapore. December 13 2011 11:25. Posts 1927 | Profile Blog # |
| Thanks for the guide. Personally, I've been using this build for quite awhile now and it's very safe. The only times i abandon the build is if he goes for a 1 rax gasless FE in which I get my nexus @ 24/25 food before the 3rd pylon and delay my robo. Also, MC vs PuMa happened during IEM Cologne and not Dreamhack. |
|
|
| monk United States. December 13 2011 11:26. Posts 6831 | Profile Blog # |
On December 13 2011 11:24 Tazerenix wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 11:17 Geiko wrote:
An idea for a next guide would be : how do you gateway first against Zerg anymore ? The classic 3 gate sentry expand is useless and all the current guides are FFE openings. Would be great if you could write something about good ways to play with gateway first in PvZ.
YES PLEASE I hate going gateway first against zerg anymore, it feels so uneconomical and my sentry pushes are easily shutdown by 2 crawlers and a hand full of lings. I wouldn't say the 3 gate sentry expand is completely useless, but most of the time I'll be 1 gate FEing, walling off ramp to nexus with me 2nd and 3rd gateways. Perhaps 2 gate stargate play is the future of gateway first openings against zerg?
I personally almost always FFE versus zergs these days, so I'm probably not very qualified to write such a guide. |
| |
|
| OxyFuel Canada. December 13 2011 11:27. Posts 190 | Profile # |
On December 13 2011 11:15 Tazerenix wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 11:13 OxyFuel wrote:
You outdo yourself with every guide! Thank you so much for this. Question though. Why is this not good vs 1 rax gasless fe. If Terran gasless fe's all they have his marines for a while and they are pretty defensive. Since you are both FE at a similar time shouldn't it be fairly even?
You don't FE at similar times. A 1 rax gasless FE is going to get the CC very quickly, a lot faster than your nexus. Even though you get your nexus quite fast with this build, it's still going to be slower. If you scout the 1 rax CC fast enough you can drop the Nexus before your second stalker, or even before your first stalker (as I've seen SaSe do on his stream) or just scrap the FE, drop 3 gateways and perhaps proxy 2 more and go for a 5 gate allin, map dependant.
Yeah after I posted this I realized that getting nexus at 30 is a fair bit later then 1 rax gasless fe . So dropping nexus before first stalker is safe vs 1 rax gasless fe? Feels greedy to me. I guess it depends on whats going on in the game though, what you scout.
Last edit: 2011-12-13 11:27:24 |
| | Flash | Boxer | qxc | KawaiiRice | LuckyFool | Avilo |
|
|
| Tazerenix Australia. December 13 2011 11:27. Posts 340 | Profile # |
On December 13 2011 11:26 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 11:24 Tazerenix wrote:
On December 13 2011 11:17 Geiko wrote:
An idea for a next guide would be : how do you gateway first against Zerg anymore ? The classic 3 gate sentry expand is useless and all the current guides are FFE openings. Would be great if you could write something about good ways to play with gateway first in PvZ.
YES PLEASE I hate going gateway first against zerg anymore, it feels so uneconomical and my sentry pushes are easily shutdown by 2 crawlers and a hand full of lings. I wouldn't say the 3 gate sentry expand is completely useless, but most of the time I'll be 1 gate FEing, walling off ramp to nexus with me 2nd and 3rd gateways. Perhaps 2 gate stargate play is the future of gateway first openings against zerg?
I personally almost always FFE versus zergs these days, so I'm probably not very qualified to write such a guide.
I guess. I basically FFE on every map except left spawn on Meta and on Shattered, where I 1 gate FE (I veto'd XNC). |
|
|
| Tazerenix Australia. December 13 2011 11:30. Posts 340 | Profile # |
On December 13 2011 11:27 OxyFuel wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 11:15 Tazerenix wrote:
On December 13 2011 11:13 OxyFuel wrote:
You outdo yourself with every guide! Thank you so much for this. Question though. Why is this not good vs 1 rax gasless fe. If Terran gasless fe's all they have his marines for a while and they are pretty defensive. Since you are both FE at a similar time shouldn't it be fairly even?
You don't FE at similar times. A 1 rax gasless FE is going to get the CC very quickly, a lot faster than your nexus. Even though you get your nexus quite fast with this build, it's still going to be slower. If you scout the 1 rax CC fast enough you can drop the Nexus before your second stalker, or even before your first stalker (as I've seen SaSe do on his stream) or just scrap the FE, drop 3 gateways and perhaps proxy 2 more and go for a 5 gate allin, map dependant.
Yeah after I posted this I realized that getting nexus at 30 is a fair bit later then 1 rax gasless fe . So dropping nexus before first stalker is safe vs 1 rax gasless fe? Feels greedy to me. I guess it depends on whats going on in the game though, what you scout.
I think dropping before first stalker is pretty risky, It is safe if you actually see the command centre, but I wouldn't be going nexus before stalker if I didn't see the CC as I don't know if he could be 2 rax or 3 rax scv allining me. |
|
|
| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next All | |
|
|
|
| |
|
Sidebar Settings...
|
Store
