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| Misder United States. December 25 2011 06:29. Posts 1018 | Profile # |
Ok, I'm going to take a different approach.
Between jay and seph, I would rather have seph in the game. seph posted a case and is willing to do work as whatever he is. This means he's useful.
jay on the other hand, really did jump on the bandwagon for no good reason (double standard and multiple null tells that he frames as scum tells, actually like Cheese's case on jay), spend all of his posts when he was attacked, defending himself.
We can focus on couple things on the jay case.
1) The double standard
I actually didn't point this out because I didn't see it, but it's a good point. We look at seph, and we see that he states that Lynch all Lurkers policy lynch is bad because narrow focus too much and real life. When I read the "the least because at times I am one", I read it as flavor text. However, jay decides to say that "Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town." a) that isn't what seph said and b) jay did the same thing as seph, "Sorry for not being to active. Internet is a commodity not always provided at my families house". Flavor text.
2) His tell on seph's selfvote
Reread what he says on this point. "I also fine the fact that sephirotharg posted a vote in himself really really weird to be honest. You know people think your suspicious if not just plain scum. Why would you put a vote on your self as a "placeholder" I honestly think its a distraction because why would mafia vote himself. But at the same time why would town vote for himself. Its a action that makes no sense. And when we are trying to get clarity why would you do that." jay defends his point by saying its a distraction which is a scum tell, but a) in 3 lines, all he is saying is that selfvoting could be town or scum action, which is a null tell, not a scumtell b) many actions can be bot town or scum action- that doesn't mean confusion
3) His tell on seph not wanting to play
He says that "He then states at this point he would rather not play the game. He doesn't want to play the game because hes mafia that got caught day one. Kinda sucks but pretty good for town dont ya think." a) he only looks at it from seph being scum b) Cyber makes a good point that townies may react the same way c) go back to 2, jay never mentions that this action is a "distraction" but it's essentially the same thing as 2, an action that both town or scum could do
And no, I will not say if I think seph is blue or not. |
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| sephirotharg United States. December 25 2011 06:38. Posts 90 | Profile # |
On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote:
Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph.
Care to expand on that? Why do you believe Jay and not me? Lay out your reasoning, convince others. That's the town play. |
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| GiygaS Canada. December 25 2011 06:49. Posts 726 | Profile Blog # |
On December 25 2011 06:38 sephirotharg wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote:
Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph.
Care to expand on that? Why do you believe Jay and not me? Lay out your reasoning, convince others. That's the town play.
A lot of the stuff on Jay is twisting words to say he's mafia. While the first evidence against you was indeed flavor text (the lurker thing), most of he stuff on you now is how you've reacted to things IMO. Meanwhile Jay only has weird flavor text twisting against him. BTW, I think the reason he hasn't scumhunted yet is there's pretty much him and you on the chopping block. That and I just get a tone of voice thing in yours that makes it seem you're way more concerned about getting lynched than Jay is, which I usually associate with a mafia. |
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| sephirotharg United States. December 25 2011 07:07. Posts 90 | Profile # |
On December 25 2011 05:38 jaybrundage wrote:
Jay- I have stated multiply times i think it was a distraction. There was no reason for you to vote for your self. It only serves to confuse people and make people second guess there own vote. Giygas stated himself that he had no idea what to think of it.
Well, sure. Giygas didn't know what to think. Others understood it, mainly Misder, who told everyone we should consider it null. I've also laid out my reasons for voting for myself. So this is just a difference of opinion here.
Jay-
It means you have been acting scummy. I want you to be active because a active town is a healthy town that can find mafia.
I would prefer everyone to be active so we can catch scum when they slip.
Hypocrisy. The only times you have been active are 1) when you were pursuing my lynch and 2) when you yourself are the focus of scrutiny. Other than that, you have been lurking. You say you want an active town, and defy that with your actions. Are you really town then?
Jay-
I wanted to get your post asap because i thought we only had two hours. I turned out to be mistaken. Why would i lie about the deadline. That would just be plain dumb. I gave my scum read and its you. You defense was lackluster. It at some points didn't even make sense. Quoting Emerson seems like a stretch.
I agree, lying about the deadline would be dumb. Which is why I'm calling you out on it. If you had actually made a mistake, you would have apologized, or acknowledged the fact shortly thereafter. Instead you attack Misder and myself in the space of one post, without mentioning your "mistake" at all. Seems fishy to me. And I'm not going to let you get away with merely saying "defense was lackluster". If you really think so, why don't you analyze it? This strikes me as the kind of generality that a mafia would say. Quoting Emerson was flavor, nothing more. Is it a stretch? Maybe. Does it make me mafia? No.
Jay-
I have not lurked. And I have not made excuses for it.
I have defensed my self thoroughly because i am not mafia. I have pushed your lynch because you are the scummiest person atm.
Poor grammar aside, this is an outright lie. I count 12 posts from you as of this reply. Of these 12, the first 3 are pregame fluff. The next 4 come in the space of a couple of hours, and deal primarily with my first post. The next 5 come about 17 hours later by my count, and are focused on defending yourself. That's only 9 posts in the actual game (two or three of which are one-liners), and significant gaps between the posts. Sure, you have to sleep, that's fine. But 9 posts in 2 days of play does not seem active to me, especially given the content of said posts.
Jay-
This is VERYYY interesting. You previously said that you found Drikzor and Shraft suspicious which is down below HOWEVER you push onto me after seeing that other people are doing so. Ever since Drikzor came off your lynch wagon you dont even mention him. And you switch from Shraft who you though was suspicious to me.
You are incorrect here. I said previously that I was suspicious of anyone that voted so quickly for me - in that context, specifically Dirk, Shraft and Giygas. That was on page 5, however, and I laid out my case for you on page 9. The time gap between those pages was what, a day or so? Plenty of time for my opinions to change and solidify. After seeing the others' case on you, I looked back at your filter and found you to be rather scummy. So I laid out my case against you. Rest assured, you were not the only one I looked at, however, and you aren't the only one I have suspicions about. And you are ignoring the fact that at the end of my case against you I specifically call out Shraft as another suspicious person. Dirk and Giygas I'm less sure of, and therefore I'm not willing at this time to reveal my thoughts. |
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| jaybrundage United States. December 25 2011 07:24. Posts 1790 | Profile # |
Responding to Misder
Double standard:
I already responded to this. I never gave an excuse for so called lurking if you call not posting for a couple of hours lurking.
I said i was sorry because i don't want people to lurk or have excuses.
Sep's self vote:
I already explained this as well.
Sep's self vote was needless and useless.
He said just incase he forgets and does not make it to the lynch time. Even tho he said he would be able to come back in time for the lynch.
It makes no sense at all.
The reason a self vote should be used if you dont think anyone should be lynched and want to make a tie. However he did something with no cause.
I think its a scum tell trying to distract. If you dont then that's fine.
Sep wanting to give up:
Again i already commentated on this. IF sep was town he would not be so able to give up so easily. He would know hes in the right and prove to everyone he is. If hes mafia he would know he got caught day one and is trying to get a replacement to help his team.
Your reusing points i addressed if you dont have anything else to say with out regurgitating i assume thats all you case? |
| | The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle. |
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| Shraft Sweden. December 25 2011 07:29. Posts 582 | Profile # |
| All right, just read through the last two pages. I still think that seph has a higher chance of flipping red than jay. At first glance the cases on jay seem far-fetched to me. I'm going to read them through in detail once again now and make a more substantial post, but at the moment the chance of me switching my vote from seph to jay is slim. |
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| jaybrundage United States. December 25 2011 07:31. Posts 1790 | Profile # |
Responding to Sep
I say i want a active town and i am not and dont plan on lurking.
You respond with im lying and that i am lurking.
Are you kidding. Are you honestly accusing me of lurking?
Hypocrisy. The only times you have been active are 1) when you were pursuing my lynch and 2) when you yourself are the focus of scrutiny. Other than that, you have been lurking. You say you want an active town, and defy that with your actions. Are you really town then?
I say im not lurking and you say
Poor grammar aside, this is an outright lie.
I have posted on why i wanted to lynch you. And now that i am on the chopping block i have posted well thought out responses to accusations. I have a shit load of content you can analzye from but you are honestly accusing me of LURKING |
| | The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle. |
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| jaybrundage United States. December 25 2011 07:35. Posts 1790 | Profile # |
Oh and we need minus to get in here and post he has contributed very little.
Hyshes as well.
We need more posts from these guys or we will not be able to get a read on them.
Please post what you think about the current cases me and Sep
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| | The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle. |
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| Dirkzor Denmark. December 25 2011 08:01. Posts 1341 | Profile Blog # |
I've skimmed the last pages fast since I'm still celebrating christmas and is soon going out.
Right now I don't know who I find the most scummiest/towniest, jay or seph. I want them both to hang - atleast to get info. What bothers me is that a lot of people don't join the discussion. If both Jay and Seph flips town we have very little to work with. Only me, misder, cyber, seph and jay are a part of this. I hope this isn't what we can expect from everyone later in the game =(
I'll change my vote back to seph in order to get a lynch since this is were most votes are at the moment. As i said earlier, i would rather lynch then no-lynch. I don't know if I'll be back before lynch time. That depends on how drunk i get =)
##Unvote
##Vote sephirotharg |
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| Shraft Sweden. December 25 2011 08:25. Posts 582 | Profile # |
Note that 1 in my post corresponds with 1 in seph's post, 2 in my post corresponds with 2 in his, etc.
On December 25 2011 02:22 sephirotharg wrote:Well, you guys wanted my strongest case, so here it is: Surprise! It's Jaybrundage. Let's go through this step by step.
Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 07:57 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey guys,
Sorry for not being to active. Internet is a commodity not always provided at my families house.
Ok lets get started. On policy lynches i think that there fine guidelines for how we should act and at the same time we should not follow them blindly and be the main reason we lynch someone.1
Onto the good stuff. I think that the sephirotharg case is an interesting one. I do find his first post suspicious.
Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town. There is not reason to allow it or hint that it's acceptable or we gonna establish a bad town atmosphere. We need people to post what they think so we can get transparency.2
I also fine the fact that sephirotharg posted a vote in himself really really weird to be honest. You know people think your suspicious if not just plain scum. Why would you put a vote on your self as a "placeholder" I honestly think its a distraction because why would mafia vote himself. But at the same time why would town vote for himself. Its a action that makes no sense. And when we are trying to get clarity why would you do that.3
##Vote sephirotharg
Honestly you seem to want to be voting for the way your acting. Post a solid reason why we should not vote for you. Defend your self give people another case on someone you think is scummy. Something4
: Interesting how his first substantive post opens with a justification for his seeming lurking. He continues on to say they are "good guidelines" but backs off from this stance by saying they shouldn't be the reason we lynch somebody. I've been accused of preemptively defending my lurking; well, I'm leveling the same charge at Jay. 2: Soft-claiming that lurking is ok is anti-town, right? Then why did you just try to excuse your own lurking? That's anti-town behavior as well. 3: You say that there's no reason for a mafia to vote for their self. Then, realizing that you just implied that I was a townie, you back up and try to posit that there's no reason for a townie to vote for their self. Then you just give up and say you are confused. How does any of this help the town? You argue that my self-vote was a distraction but it's you who attempts to distract the town with this nonsense paragraph. 4: "I seem to want to be voting for the way I'm acting?" What does that even mean? And then you appeal to me to do something, anything at all. Why? You'd prefer for others to be active, if you are mafia. If I'm doing all the talking, you don't have to contribute. This post is basically a nothing post. Jay tries to excuse his own lurking (and then lurks rather a lot after this, having only 2 additional posts of any length. For a game that's almost 2 days old at this point that is a paltry contribution) and then confuses the issue by saying that my actions make no sense. He reiterates reasons others have laid out for my post seeming scummy but fails to expand on those reasons.
- How can you stretch that he thinks that "policy lynches are good guidelines but we shouldn't follow them blindly" to that he is making preemptive excuses for his lurking? I fully agree that the policies of not lying and not lurking are great, but I disagree with policy lynches such as "Lynch All Liars" and "Lynch All Lurkers", which is basically what jay is saying.
- Excusing your own lurking/inactivity is not the same as saying that lurking is okay. I find the former to be more of a null tell than scummy (some might argue that it is anti-town) and the latter is more of an anti-town action.
- This part of his (and with his I mean jay) post is mostly nonsensical, but your self-vote was more of a distraction than his blabbering. (Although to me they are both null tells.)
- Yup, mafia encouraging other people to contribute is quite known, but townies also encourage each other to contribute. I think this is a null tell.
All in all I agree that this post does not contribute very much to the discussion, but I don't see anything in it that leads me to think that jay is scum. If a player makes many posts containing nothing new of value, then I agree that you have grounds to accuse him of being scummy. However, judging by only this post, it's a null tell for me.
On December 25 2011 02:22 sephirotharg wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 09:37 jaybrundage wrote:
Alright sep you just got a warning. As of now i see as scum and you have a lot of votes on you. Plz address these concerns.
And it would be great for you to give your scum reads. As we have about 2 and a half hours till deadline.
If your town tell use everything you know so that we have tools to get scum. Give us everything you got this is the time you can change the vote. Now or never.
Oh and in case my nonbolded vote doesnt count.
##Vote Sephirotharg
I received a warning. Thanks for stating the obvious. Then you say I had "a lot of votes" on myself. At this point, the votes numbered 4, one of which was my own placeholder. 3 votes is "a lot?" No, you just want me to perceive it that way so I panic and mess up. This is further compounded by the fact that you say we have only 2 hours left - an outright lie. Could you have made a mistake? Certainly. But does it benefit you to put more pressure on me? Yes. And then you conclude by asking me for my scum reads - when you yourself haven't contributed at all beyond restating what other people have said.
I'm almost entirely sure that the 2 hour thing was just jay making a mistake. There would be no other reason to say that the lynch is in two hours, because lying about it would serve no purpose whatsoever since every player (except jay, apparently) knows about the day/night cycle. Even if you were uncertain, it is not likely that you'd feel pressured enough to type something stupid without consulting the OP and thereby finding out the real deadline for the lynch.
If you assume that he was not lying, this post makes perfect sense. If you're town, it's all the better if you give town all the information (i.e. scum reads, other analysis, etc.) so that they can work with it after you flip.
On December 25 2011 02:22 sephirotharg wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 09:58 jaybrundage wrote:
The Sephirotharg so called bandwagon is going so well because hes had some huge scum tells. If you dont realize this then you should reread his posts. I stated why i think hes scummy.
You state its stupid but please do explain that. Dont you think its weird that Sephirotharg instead of defending himself that he just leaves? And the votes for himself just not to get modkilled however he knows people are voting for him but he ignores it. He is much more likly to be lynched at this point.
The part where he edited a post to appear innocent is pretty much nailing him the coffin. A townie would not have to be so conscious of his posts because he has nothing to hide.
He then states at this point he would rather not play the game. He doesn't want to play the game because hes mafia that got caught day one. Kinda sucks but pretty good for town dont ya think.
And if you want to make a case on me go for it.
So far you posted everything about policy lynches which is a great discussion starter. You have to move on sooner or later.
You then vote for me with practically nothing. You claim i haven't contributed but all you talked about was policy lynches.
And here you just restate what has already been said. Both of your main points against me have already been noted by this time, by Shraft and Adam a few posts above yours. And then you attack Misder, even though his vote is obviously a pressure vote. You even acknowledge as much by saying "You then vote for me with practically nothing". You lurk, then make excuses for it. You distract the town from the actual issues, and merely restate points that have already been said. And you react aggressively when the flimsiest of votes is pushed against you. And you push for an early, not fully reasoned-out lynch. None of this behavior makes sense from a town perspective, but it is classic mafia play. I have my doubts about others, most notably Shraft, but since Jay's response amounts to "it wasn't a sheep vote" he is my prime suspect at this point in time.
I agree with you in that most of the post (jay's) is fodder, but I think you're stretching it when you say that jay is disrupting the town and pushing for a not fully-reasoned out lynch. Your lynch is, after all, the most discussed one in the game thus far (whether or not you agree with it).
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| Shraft Sweden. December 25 2011 08:31. Posts 582 | Profile # |
| Oh, that was a bigger wall of text than I realised. Maybe I should've spoilered the quotes, but then again that would've made it harder to see what I was referring to. |
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| Grackaroni United States. December 25 2011 08:39. Posts 495 | Profile # |
Seph is the best lynch for today.
First he put together a shitty defense of him downplaying his activity and his skill by saying that he was using it to draw out mafia to vote for him because he knew that they would try to force a mislynch.
On December 24 2011 03:38 sephirotharg wrote:RE: GiygaS No, you misinterpreted my post - I expected somebody to notice that part about me lurking long before they did - I didn't expect to get votes so early! You see, mafia will tend to push for a mis-lynch day 1 - and I don't mind putting myself out there as a target, if it lures them out of hiding. So, anyone who has pushed for lynching me, consider yourself on notice. And the last objection you have to me: my asking people about day 1 lynches did indeed generate discussion. See this post:
Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 13:59 GiygaS wrote:
And also, it's stupid to not get a lynch on day1 unless we have literally no leads. It's better to lynch a guy that we think is leaning scum, then not lynching anybody at all.
And this one:
Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 15:16 Misder wrote:
@Day1 Lynch- yes. ofc, that comes with scumhunting as well as potentially lynching lurkers.
On December 24 2011 03:56 sephirotharg wrote:
RE: Giygas
This is a game of circles within circles son, and you'd best step to that right quick.
Weird accent aside, I'm merely stating that I find you, Dirkzor, and Shraft rather suspicious for voting so early and pushing hard. I think it's rather obvious why I wrote "the thing about lurking" - to generate some discussion, allowing scum to reveal themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the three of you flips red - but we'll see.
Later in the game he becomes a defeatist, saying that he wanted to be replaced because anyone else could do better than him, but why? You wanted to draw people out to vote for you, so you should be using the information you gained with your trap and look more into the people you were suspicious of.
On December 24 2011 08:14 sephirotharg wrote:
Because I don't desire to appear mafia? If I'm town, the last thing I'd want to do is contradict myself, so it seems natural to me to re-read my posts.
Another thing I don't like, I guess there can be some merit to look more town but honestly I haven't been looking over my own posts at all this game. I think it's more of a scum trait.
Instead you bandwagon on to JB for having a weak case and being a lurker. Before you thought that the people who originally voted for you were suspicious but now you've changed your mind. Perhaps there was a reason you didn't want to list reads? you didn't have any, I think you found somebody else's case and jumped on it.
On Jaybrundage : Jaybrundage's case on Seph looks pretty weak. You need to understand though that people aren't voting for Seph because people are bandwagoning dirkzor, the original voter. People are voting for seph because he has been by far the most suspicious character in this game. |
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| Adam4167 Australia. December 25 2011 08:48. Posts 1224 | Profile # |
On December 25 2011 08:01 Dirkzor wrote:
Right now I don't know who I find the most scummiest/towniest, jay or seph. I want them both to hang - atleast to get info. What bothers me is that a lot of people don't join the discussion. If both Jay and Seph flips town we have very little to work with. Only me, misder, cyber, seph and jay are a part of this. I hope this isn't what we can expect from everyone later in the game =(
We have to be forgiving of timezone differences Dirk. When I went to sleep last night, the thread had stalled with me asking Seph for his reads and him saying he had grown weary of his defense. Now that I am awake again, Ill be present to discuss for the next 12-14 hours as much as I am able.
At face value I found sephiroths earlier posts to be very scummy, as my analysis pointed out, then his defense was somewhat underwhelming but not lacking in effort. I am now going to re-read the entire thread, and try to decide who i find scummier between him and jay.
A switch to jay at this point may prove difficult, unless activity in the thread increases towards the lynch deadline. That said, last minute switches rarely prove beneficial for towns and generally just add to the confusion. |
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| hyshes Belgium. December 25 2011 08:52. Posts 362 | Profile # |
On December 25 2011 07:35 jaybrundage wrote:
Oh and we need minus to get in here and post he has contributed very little.
Hyshes as well.
We need more posts from these guys or we will not be able to get a read on them.
Please post what you think about the current cases me and Sep
pretty easy. Sep is making no sense whatsoever. I'm not gonna allow him to screw around here a bit and then get away with it. All he did up to now is anti-town. His case on you was no case, it was a dull replica. He didn't do anything.
And about the case on you. Its based on things i don't see in your posts. |
| | How does liquid slide? Liquid horns Hero after the synonym. How can Hero return beside the driver? The moving feat expenses the mortal. Will Hero pause? |
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| Shraft Sweden. December 25 2011 10:03. Posts 582 | Profile # |
Just read through jay's filter twice. Sure, there is some faulty logic and poor reasoning in some of his posts, but nothing that really stands out as scummy behaviour to me. I'm sticking with my vote on sephirotharg. I don't like his preemptive excuses, I don't like how he tries to twist his initial suspicious behaviour into something pro-town, I don't like how he stretches everything a bit too far in his case against jaybrundage, and I don't like how he says that he is an inexperienced player in his first post, then says it was a play to catch scum looking for an easy vote, and then invokes his noobiness in his defense later on. Noobs don't make clever traps in order to bait out scum.
It looks like sephirotharg's death is imminent at this point in time. If you guys decide to do a last minute switch onto jay or someone else, you better make damn sure that you have enough votes before you make the switch. A no lynch would be detrimental to town. It would essentially bring us back to day 1 with the exeption that scum has gotten to kill off a townie. |
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| Mr. Wiggles Canada. December 25 2011 11:02. Posts 4685 | Profile Blog # |
Current Vote Count:
sephirotharg - 9
Dirkzor
Shraft
GiygaS
sephirotharg
jaybrundage
Adam4167
EchelonTee
Grackaroni
hyshes
jaybrundage - 2
Misder
Dirkzor
Cyber_Cheese
Not Yet Voted:
minus_human
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Voting ends in 1 hour. Please remember to unvote if you wish to change your vote, and to bold your votes so I can see them.
If there is a mistake, please let me know!
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| jaybrundage United States. December 25 2011 11:04. Posts 1790 | Profile # |
| For minus human is he going to get a warning, replaced? how does that work |
| | The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle. |
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| Cyber_Cheese Australia. December 25 2011 11:05. Posts 3598 | Profile Blog # |
+ Show Spoiler [Jaybrunage's defence] +
On December 25 2011 03:35 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +On jay, let's just say its a gut read, and I'm feeling very good about it. I do only have 4 posts to work with right now. We can look at them though. Post 1"Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town. There is not reason to allow it or hint that it's acceptable or we gonna establish a bad town atmosphere. We need people to post what they think so we can get transparency." This is pretty much the discussion between the Lynch all Lurkers policy lynch. However, framing it so that one side = scum is really not logical. Otherwise, jay is saying that GygaS and Cyber_Cheese are scum as well.
On my first post you stated that im talking about lynch all lurkers. While yes sep was talkling about lal i was specifically talking about how he said. You should not lynch all lurkers because i like to lurk. Someone blalantly said he would not let him get away with that. And rightfully so.
Also dont twist my words. Cybercheese and Gygas state if i can recall correct that we should not follow policies blindly and should go on a case by case basis. I am in total aggreance with them. As i stated we should use the policies as guidelines not follow them blindly.[1]
Show nested quote +Post 2"Plz address these concerns." Same as before. "If your town tell use everything you know so that we have tools to get scum." Basically, bluefishing.
Again WTF where did you get this Bluefishing? You think im mafia trying to draw out a blue so i can hit them.[2]
On December 25 2011 03:54 jaybrundage wrote:
But one thing i have been thinking about him wanting to give up.
If he was town he would not want to give up in my opinion because he KNOWS hes innocent and he will be able to reason everyone thru to find out that.
If he is mafia tho he would feel like he is letting down his teammates. And he got caught day one. So he wants someone else to come in to try to help them win the game.[3]
On December 25 2011 04:19 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 25 2011 01:02 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Alright, so I took a look at Jaybrundage's filter-
Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 07:57 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey guys,
Sorry for not being to active. Internet is a commodity not always provided at my families house.[1]
Ok lets get started. On policy lynches i think that there fine guidelines for how we should act and at the same time we should not follow them blindly and be the main reason we lynch someone.
Onto the good stuff. I think that the sephirotharg case is an interesting one. I do find his first post suspicious.
Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town. There is not reason to allow it or hint that it's acceptable or we gonna establish a bad town atmosphere. We need people to post what they think so we can get transparency. [2]
I also fine the fact that sephirotharg posted a vote in himself really really weird to be honest. You know people think your suspicious if not just plain scum. Why would you put a vote on your self as a "placeholder" I honestly think its a distraction because why would mafia vote himself. But at the same time why would town vote for himself. Its a action that makes no sense. And when we are trying to get clarity why would you do that. [3]
##Vote sephirotharg
Honestly you seem to want to be voting for the way your acting. Post a solid reason why we should not vote for you. [4] Defend your self give people another case on someone you think is scummy. Something
Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 09:58 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm I find it interesting that you choice to vote for me.
The Sephirotharg so called bandwagon is going so well because hes had some huge scum tells. If you dont realize this then you should reread his posts. I stated why i think hes scummy.
You state its stupid but please do explain that. Dont you think its weird that Sephirotharg instead of defending himself that he just leaves? And the votes for himself just not to get modkilled however he knows people are voting for him but he ignores it. He is much more likly to be lynched at this point.[4]
The part where he edited a post to appear innocent is pretty much nailing him the coffin. A townie would not have to be so conscious of his posts because he has nothing to hide.
He then states at this point he would rather not play the game. He doesn't want to play the game because hes mafia that got caught day one. Kinda sucks but pretty good for town dont ya think.[5]
And if you want to make a case on me go for it.
So far you posted everything about policy lynches which is a great discussion starter. You have to move on sooner or later.
You then vote for me with practically nothing. You claim i haven't contributed but all you talked about was policy lynches.
Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 10:02 jaybrundage wrote:
T_T it wasn't a sheep vote this guys scummy as hell.[6]
1) I'm sorry, I haven't been around much 2) Lurking for any reason is not acceptable That seems like a mighty fine double-standard right there. Jay-
Would you call me a lurker? I think the reason that Sep said we should not lynch lurkers is because he likes to lurk sometimes correct. That in it self seems bad for the town. If you like to lurk dont play as others have suggested.[4]3, 4) About half of your reasoning is devoted to talking about how voting for yourself makes no sense as either side, but somehow this works out to be a scum tell? Jay-
I think its a distraction. Sep had no reason to vote for himself unless he has a short term memory loss. Thats it. And in that case he should not be playing mafia in the first place.
I think that making a self vote in that time served only to confuse people. And confusing people is mafia agenda.[5]5) Mistakes happen. It would suck as a townie too. How does a townies reaction differ from a scum reaction? Can you explain how this is a scum tell? Jay-
But a townie would know there in the right. And would be able to prove it with coherent logically argument. Considering my situation i would hope i can be open and show everyone that my goals are all town orientated. [6]
On December 25 2011 05:38 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 02:22 sephirotharg wrote:
I have my doubts about others, most notably Shraft, but since Jay's response amounts to "it wasn't a sheep vote" he is my prime suspect at this point in time.
Jay-
This is VERYYY interesting. You previously said that you found Drikzor and Shraft suspicious which is down below HOWEVER you push onto me after seeing that other people are doing so. Ever since Drikzor came off your lynch wagon you dont even mention him. And you switch from Shraft who you though was suspicious to me.[7]
Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 03:56 sephirotharg wrote:
RE: Giygas
This is a game of circles within circles son, and you'd best step to that right quick.
Weird accent aside, I'm merely stating that I find you, Dirkzor, and Shraft rather suspicious for voting so early and pushing hard. I think it's rather obvious why I wrote "the thing about lurking" - to generate some discussion, allowing scum to reveal themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the three of you flips red - but we'll see.
1, 4) For someone who didn't want their words twisted, you were awfully keen to twist Seph's there.
2) It's not about the question. It's about the wording used to ask the question, which makes it interpretable as bluefishing.
3) This is another null read.
5) I didn't find it confusing. If it was aimed to be, there are much more efficient methods.
6) Even the best townies can make mistakes. While it's true that a good townie should be able to do that, it doesn't apply in all situations.
7) You don't really care for what he said, nor it's context, do you? He was replying to Giygas there, his suspicion wasn't limited to Dirkzor and Shraft. He also suspected them because they were relatively quick to vote on him, this was before you were the fourth person to vote on him. |
| | The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you. |
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| sephirotharg United States. December 25 2011 11:06. Posts 90 | Profile # |
##Unvote sephirotharg
##Vote jaybrundage
Now that that's done, I'll post my brief thoughts on everyone in the game, because my lynching appears imminent.
Here we go (this post was started several hours ago, bear that in mind):
Grackaroni: I'm getting a green vibe off Grack. He encourages everyone to share, seems to be acting for the town in general and put some thought into his case against me. I'm concerned at his lack of activity recently, and the fact that his case against me seemed to come almost out of nowhere (according to his posts, that is), but I'd still peg him as green.
Adam4167: I'm not entirely sure about Adam. His case against me was somewhat thoughtful, and he seems interested in finding scum. On the other hand he's not worked hard at scumhunting beyond looking at me, and he has dropped off the face of the earth recently.
hyshes: Too little of his to really judge. I'm not sure, mainly because he just jumped on the bandwagon against me, and because he's contributed nothing to the town, but with so few posts I'm not ready to say one way or another yet.
Shraft: I'm feeling like Shraft is a bit more mafia-esque. He seemed quick to vote for me, then didn't really explain himself except for the feeling that my post was "scummy". And when the focus shifts to Jay, Shraft seems to mostly ignore his faults and tries to refocus the group on me. Other than that he's not been tremendously active or contributory, which is why I'm leaning mafia for him.
Giygas: I can't get a solid read on Giygas. He appears to be working to find out who the scum is, but not terribly hard. None of his posts have been truly substantive, yet I'm not ready to say he's red yet. In fact, I feel like he's green, but I'd not bet my life on it (lol).
Misder: Green. He's actively working to scumhunt, and has analyzed both of the current contenders for lynching (me and Jay). His actions thus far seem pro-town.
minus_human: 3 posts, none of which deal with the current situation. I've no idea.
Echelon_Tee: Also green. He contributed an analysis of me to the group, two in fact. Come to think of it, he hasn't said anything with regard to jay. Either way, I feel he's interested in finding the actual scum, so I'd say he is green.
Cyber_Cheese: town seems more likely, but I'm not sold on his innocence yet. He puts his FoS on me early and then just watches events unfold, until the case comes up against Jay. He hops on the bandwagon pretty quickly there. I feel that a townie would have taken a closer look at me than he did. That said, I'm leaning towards town for him.
jaybrundage: You know my feelings with regard to him.
Dirkzor: Feels green to me. He does vote for me quickly, this is true. But later he runs down reasons for everyone's votes and tries to spur discussion about who to lynch. Nothing sticks out to me, so he seems town.
So the three I'd peg as mafia, at this point in time, are: jay, shraft, and one of the lurkers (hyshes or minus_human). |
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| sephirotharg United States. December 25 2011 11:11. Posts 90 | Profile # |
You know what, make my third mafia in that previous post hyshes. He seems awfully keen to dismiss the arguments against jay in this post:
On December 25 2011 08:52 hyshes wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 07:35 jaybrundage wrote:
Oh and we need minus to get in here and post he has contributed very little.
Hyshes as well.
We need more posts from these guys or we will not be able to get a read on them.
Please post what you think about the current cases me and Sep
pretty easy. Sep is making no sense whatsoever. I'm not gonna allow him to screw around here a bit and then get away with it. All he did up to now is anti-town. His case on you was no case, it was a dull replica. He didn't do anything. And about the case on you. Its based on things i don't see in your posts.
No real explanation, just general feelings. That doesn't cut it here. |
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