Sleeper Cell Mafia II

Vote Count!

Radfield (4): Meapak_Ziphh, Cwave, Jackal58, Bumatlarge

Navillus (1): RedFF

Bumatlarge (3): Radfield, Lanaia, Navillus

Cwave (1): GGQ

Lanaia (3): Hesmyrr, Zephridd, Vaderseven

Meapak_Ziphh (1): Blazinghand

"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31

Lanaia Canada. January 28 2012 06:34. Posts 1142

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I can confirm I am in fact female. Leaving now for my staff meeting.

Also: "we need to lynch bumatlarge, on a scale from 1 to scum he is king bum lord of the scumpeople."
Thank you for saying it like that. I really needed a laugh. <3

<3 If you chase a mirage, the desert will swallow you.

vaderseven United States. January 28 2012 06:47. Posts 2200

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So thats her last post after seeing herself leading the votecount (tied for at least) on a basis of being a lurker???

♥TL Mafia Game, check us out and play with us in the TL Mafia section! / If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Zapp B.

Blazinghand United States. January 28 2012 06:48. Posts 12070

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On January 28 2012 06:21 Navillus wrote:
Also Blazinghand, Hesmyrr, and GGQ need to move their votes to people that actually are in the running for a lynch - and by that I mean bum- or you're just letting scum choose where the lynch goes.

Ah yes you're right scum totes know who each other are and will deflect the lynch from each other???

Still, you make a good point. I could be a tiebreaker vote here, and it seems that the town is somewhat ok with letting Rear Admiral McLurk Zelurk continue lurking, so I'll examine the wagons and pick a horse.

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.

vaderseven United States. January 28 2012 06:48. Posts 2200

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oh tied for 2nd same idea though

♥TL Mafia Game, check us out and play with us in the TL Mafia section! / If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Zapp B.

GGQ Canada. January 28 2012 07:19. Posts 2464

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I still believe Cwave to be scum (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303792&currentpage=13#255) but if he's not getting lynched, Id rather see either bum or lanaia lynched than Radfield at this point.

Voting bumatlarge for now

you say you want a Revolution?

Mr. Wiggles Canada. January 28 2012 07:20. Posts 4685

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I don't really like how all the wagons look right now. I haven't had a ton of time to read and reread the thread, so I'd appreciate it if someone would talk to me, and maybe we can reason this out.

Right now, the leading candidate is Radfield. So far, he's contradicted himself a couple of times, and posted something that hurts the town. He's also made an excuse for if his early reads or bad or result in a mislynch, which I don't like. It takes responsibility away from him before anything happens. He's active, but I'm getting the feeling he's scum or else he's making really weird mistakes as town, but between the two, the former case seems more likely.

If someone could summarize the case on Bum, that would be nice. This is what I'm reading right now, feel free to correct me if I make a mistake:

Radfield: Wants to vote Bum because he says he's 'false-scumhunting', by trying to bandwagon onto himself and lynch a town player, along with other offenses.

Lanaia: Agrees with Radfield, says Bum rubs her the wrong way.

Navillus: Says that Bum not wanting to lynch Lanaia is scummy. Says he's just trying to push the lynch onto Radfield, or at least away from Lanaia.

I'll echo Vaderseven here, by asking Navillus why he would rather vote Bum than Lanaia, when his case on Bum is based on Lanaia being scum/scummy.

The wagon on Bum is a little iffy to me, because two out of three people on it are people who Bum said he'd want to lynch. Does anyone else support a Bum lynch right now? What are your reasons?

The other candidate is Lanaia who's been lurking and semi-useless.

Also, Cwave looks bad to me again, by basically dropping off the face of the earth after people called him out on the Radfield list.

"Dulce et decorum est pro Aiur mori" -Zealot | TL Mafia is the best sub-forum around, no lie!

Mr. Wiggles Canada. January 28 2012 07:22. Posts 4685

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GGQ, can you tell me why Bum is scum?

"Dulce et decorum est pro Aiur mori" -Zealot | TL Mafia is the best sub-forum around, no lie!

redFF United States. January 28 2012 07:25. Posts 3889

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On January 27 2012 22:58 Refallen wrote:
Zeph, don't you agree that Navi is defending Rad pretty hard? If you're voting for him, shouldnt you be suspicious of Rad too?

derp

redFF United States. January 28 2012 07:30. Posts 3889

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naia does this every gane

show me a town game where she doesnt do this/.

Radfield

Canada. January 28 2012 07:39. Posts 2679

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Wiggles, I posted a semi-case on Bum earlier in the game. Nothing major but a couple of small things added together.

You do realize the only reason I posted that list(ABC123 etc) is because people were repeatedly missing my point and making semantically arguments. You can't pretend that post existed in a vacuum and that I did not have reason to post it. Just read through that section of the thread.

Where have I contradicted myself multiple times?

What are my really weird mistakes?

What excuse did I make for my early reads being bad or resulting in a mislynch?

I also think you're dramatically overstating the potential detriment my ABC123 list has for town(though in hindsight I agree I should have just posted all X's), as well as overstating it as a scum motivated action.

Radfield

Canada. January 28 2012 07:40. Posts 2679

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On January 28 2012 07:30 redFF wrote:
naia does this every gane

show me a town game where she doesnt do this/.

Agreed, though I'm not sure she acts any differently as scum....

Radfield

Canada. January 28 2012 07:42. Posts 2679

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On January 28 2012 06:09 Blazinghand wrote:
Do you really think he's better than Meapak McLurkinson?

More like Meapak InActiveson. Way too hard to tell if he's even lurking or just IRL busy.

Navillus United States. January 28 2012 07:45. Posts 1120

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I'm not voting Lanaia because since the discussion started about lynching her a few people have pointed out that this fits her meta and she has showed up and made a statement or two this does not mean I don't think she is scum these are just mitigating factors that lead me to consider others. I then look at bum who defended Lanaia right around the time when it looked likely that she would get lynched AND when a few people agreed that she was looking scummy + lynching a lurker was smart.

Bum jumps in without possibly knowing more than the people that just decided Lanaia looks like a good lynch and says he's OK with any of the other 3 candidates, that alone is suspicious, I'd be more fine if he was saying "Lanaia's meta blahblahblah and X is definitely a better lynch" but instead he says "NOT Lanaia anyone else!" even saying he's willing to lynch two people that by his own admission he "doesn't have a proper read on".

Now I honestly don't see what would possess a town player to do this.

On another note I'm note entirely sure where the Radfield wagon is coming from and it looks to me like people have sort of been straggling on to it without super clear reasons, I'm gonna go over the thread but I would love if one of the people voting for him could try to concisely explain why.

As a last note no matter who we lynch today tomorrow we need to remember that lurking day1 is pretty scummy and check out all of the lurkers.

"TL gives excellent advice 99% of the time. The problem is no one listens to it." -Plexa

Blazinghand United States. January 28 2012 07:58. Posts 12070

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I don't consider the current wagons to be considerably more convincing than I am of M_Z, so my vote stands barring someone posting something more convincing. It's plurality lynch so we should be ok.I'm here from now to the end of the day though.

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.

Mr. Wiggles Canada. January 28 2012 08:03. Posts 4685

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On January 28 2012 07:39 Radfield wrote:
Wiggles, I posted a semi-case on Bum earlier in the game. Nothing major but a couple of small things added together.

You do realize the only reason I posted that list(ABC123 etc) is because people were repeatedly missing my point and making semantically arguments. You can't pretend that post existed in a vacuum and that I did not have reason to post it. Just read through that section of the thread.

Where have I contradicted myself multiple times?

What are my really weird mistakes?

What excuse did I make for my early reads being bad or resulting in a mislynch?

I also think you're dramatically overstating the potential detriment my ABC123 list has for town(though in hindsight I agree I should have just posted all X's), as well as overstating it as a scum motivated action.

On January 26 2012 13:33 Radfield wrote:
I don't scumhunt extremely early on in the game, as my reads (and yours I imagine) are terrible during that timeframe.

This looked like an excuse to me. I guess it depends on your definition about what "extremely early on" means, but it seemed weird to me, like if you lynch town on Day 1 you can go back and say that you're bad early on.

Contradiction 1: You say not to make plans for scum or discuss their strategy, then you write:

Second, mafia have very limited forms of communication this game, and from the looks of the Inception agent role, we can assume that town has some way to view their messages. This means mafia have to be extremely careful with what they write, so blatant things like lets kill X tomorrow are probably out. So mafia need a means to try to indicate to their brethren who should be getting hit. Imagine I am scum, I want to make sure that my buddies don't accidently send in hits on players I think are scummy, I want them to send in the hits on people I think seem like sure town. So what am I going to do? I'm going to repeatedly hammer it home in thread that I think Player Z is sure town. If there is general consensus among the group that player Z is town, he is a great target for mafia to lump in on.

Which is basically talking about scum strategy. Also, it seems off, because couldn't you use that for scum hunting? The first part, has absolutely no merit for town, and just warns the mafia to be careful what they write. As for the second part, you say that calling players town is a sign of scum pointing out a target. However, I don't see why you didn't use this idea to your advantage. You obviously think all or most scum will come to the same conclusion (or otherwise there would be no point in mentioning it), so why not wait until the end of day 1, and see who actually does it, to find scum? Normally people shouldn't have super strong town reads, especially with people lurking like they've been, so someone saying that x is their strongest town read and a sure green would basically set off warning bells and give you a scum candidate. The sacrifice of one player would be worth potentially catching multiple scum, and you can threaten that any possible medic protect the 'town' player. Instead, you send town off on a silly tangent.

Contradiction 2:

On January 26 2012 12:22 Radfield wrote:
Cons: Possibly leaves us low on town leaders. Certain players may spend too much time going after obvious townies.

On January 27 2012 07:02 Radfield wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is a ridiculous argument. In no way does anyone get ignored and in no way do leaders not emerge. Leaders don't become leaders because a bunch of people call them town. Leaders become leaders and THEN a bunch of people call them town. Just keep your townreads to yourself, at the very least early on in the game(Day 1/2)

This looks weird to me, because you write yourself that your plan could leave town low on leaders, with no reasoning that can be seen besides they aren't called town. Then, when Vader says the same thing, you attack him very strongly for it. This looks like a contradiction.

The mistake was posting a public key for mafia communication, as well as the odd inconsistencies I pointed out above.

Added together, you seem inconsistent to me, and that makes me believe you're either scum, or playing oddly/making weird mistakes, such that it's making me think you look like scum.

Also, your first case on bum was two possible breadcrumbs and a couple of odd sentences, which didn't seem that strong to me.

It's too late to lynch GGQ, right? He looks very scummy to me.

"Dulce et decorum est pro Aiur mori" -Zealot | TL Mafia is the best sub-forum around, no lie!

Navillus United States. January 28 2012 08:04. Posts 1120

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WTF Plurality lynch means that you're basically choosing to not vote, that will just let each scum vote for someone they're sure isn't scum and easily keep us from actually having a chance of hitting scum, in what world could this possibly help town?

"TL gives excellent advice 99% of the time. The problem is no one listens to it." -Plexa

Blazinghand United States. January 28 2012 08:13. Posts 12070

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On January 28 2012 08:04 Navillus wrote:
WTF Plurality lynch means that you're basically choosing to not vote, that will just let each scum vote for someone they're sure isn't scum and easily keep us from actually having a chance of hitting scum, in what world could this possibly help town?

I wasn't aware scum knew who each other were. Of the three wagons currently rolling the only one with any credence to it is the Radfield wagon because he has pointed some pretty BSey stuff that the scum could use (as well as a "public key" type thing, but again i'm unsure as to how that would help them compress information), and that one's in the lead already.

That being said, I just don't get how a scum player's gonna know Radfield's scum then jump onto another wagon with large enough numbers to change things.

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.

Blazinghand United States. January 28 2012 08:14. Posts 12070

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Radfield (4): Meapak_Ziphh, Cwave, Jackal58, Bumatlarge

Navillus (1): RedFF

Bumatlarge (4): Radfield, Lanaia, Navillus, GGQ

Lanaia (3): Hesmyrr, Zephridd, Vaderseven

Meapak_Ziphh (1): Blazinghand

Currently Radfield is going to win since he hit 4 first. I could move my vote over to him to make it so that it'll take 2 votes on Bum to put him in the lead (since whoever hits a number first is the tiebreaker), but it'll still be Radfield getting lynched.

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.

Blazinghand United States. January 28 2012 08:16. Posts 12070

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Basically, your issue is only really a problem is you think

A) Radfield is scum
B) Bum is town
C) some scum is gonna figure this out gonna swing the vote over to Bum

But you don't think that, since your vote is on Bum.

So.... yeah. what you flippin out about broseph?

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.