Intimate ZvX with Stoic

On January 19 2012 02:28 tarpman wrote:
Thanks for the videos! The ZvZ ones were especially useful for me in terms of scouting and what to look for... judging who is ahead and by how much in ZvZ is something I struggle with as well as when/how to transition safely to higher tech.

One thing is confusing me about the ZvP on Xel Naga: how does burrow allow you to defend that push? Five roaches is so few that I expected the protoss to just kill them without even thinking about it and move on to the drones... I was really surprised when he backed off after seeing burrow. Why didn't he just move forward and start attacking drones after the roaches burrowed?

edit: and if he had just moved forward instead of backing off, what could zerg have done about it?

When you have burrow 5 roaches is enough. The roaches can get pot shots off and then reburrow, get all their health back and repeat. If you kill a sentry each time then this is worth it alone. The protoss back off because he has 2 choices: move in and hope to kill enough drones; second, he can back off and save his army.

1. If he moves in the protoss is comitting a lot and will split his army from his reinforcements. A good zerg will move the drones out of reach so they won't die, and the zerg will have reinforcements coming the whole time.

2. This is always the better choice because the strength of protoss is not in reinforcing, it is in greater numbers. The bigger the army, the stronger it is. A protoss can't afford to lose his army unless there is a guarantee that he is going to do enough damage to warrant it.

It may have looked like the Protoss could have done a lot of damage in that game, but it still wasn't certain. That's why ZeNEXYong decided to back off and go with the sure thing, that being full retention of his army.

The downside to this: If the protoss did move in then it would take a great deal of skill with respect to multitasking. You have to use burrow micro, while moving your drones away, while macroing and pumping out more army units.

Not for the faint of heart!

stoicRegret Canada. January 19 2012 04:16. Posts 201

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Burrow applies to all zerg units. With burrow I can keep full army retention because he is not on enough gates to end the game. If he sits there attacking my hatch then eventually I will have enough units to kill him. Sentry retention is everything. If he lost those sentries he loses the game. It is the same reason why his last colosus army was so weak: no sentries. You cannot kill drones when they are burrowed without an observer btw.

HelloSon United States. January 19 2012 04:18. Posts 387

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No reps vs Zukapin?

smwatkin Canada. January 19 2012 04:28. Posts 399

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We'll get some stoicZukapin reps sir

loving it Canada. January 19 2012 04:36. Posts 271

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Please keep it up. ^_^ As someone who hasn't played in awhile and wants to get back into laddering, these videos are a valuable resource to me.

Stay gold.

Hairy United Kingdom. January 19 2012 05:19. Posts 1045

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Great videos, very insightful. My only complaint is that the volume balancing isn't quite right; David "stoicRegret" Tran was at the perfect volume, but Mr Shawn "stoicNuvo" Watkins was too quiet!

Keep up the good work. Will be taking the time to watch the other three episodes when I get the chance.

Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits

smwatkin Canada. January 19 2012 05:39. Posts 399

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On January 19 2012 05:19 Hairy wrote:
Great videos, very insightful. My only complaint is that the volume balancing isn't quite right; David "stoicRegret" Tran was at the perfect volume, but Mr Shawn "stoicNuvo" Watkins was too quiet!

Keep up the good work. Will be taking the time to watch the other three episodes when I get the chance.

I agree completely! Does anybody know how to fix this?

revel United States. January 19 2012 07:22. Posts 17

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These videos are invaluable to understanding high level decision making. The useful information per minute(UIPM) is off the charts. Thanks for the hard work!

Lobotomist United States. January 19 2012 07:57. Posts 1230

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Just watched episode 4 game one. Some very interesting points about killing the cannons and expansion placement. I feel like a protoss player would be better off leaving archons or high templar with storm at home rather than stalkers, and that they might be able to shut down your base trade with a couple good storms. have you ever encountered this?

Last edit: 2012-01-19 07:59:47

Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk

Erasme France. January 19 2012 08:06. Posts 4091

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On January 19 2012 07:57 Lobotomist wrote:
Just watched episode 4 game one. Some very interesting points about killing the cannons and expansion placement. I feel like a protoss player would be better off leaving archons or high templar with storm at home rather than stalkers, and that they might be able to shut down your base trade with a couple good storms. have you ever encountered this?

Archons can be magic boxed and single or double templars will be sniped by a group of 4/5 mutalisks. But if you go in a basetrade situation, leaving 10stalkers against 30+ mutalisks isn't a good idea either.

'Reading all your blogs make me feel warm inside, it's like I know you already and I hope you would like to know me too'

Conquerer67 United States. January 19 2012 09:06. Posts 605

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I really like these videos, I feel that they are the kind of thing that helps me out with my decision making that I am still struggling with. Keep posting, please and thanks

I hate when people compare SC2 and rochambeu. One race isn't fucking supposed to counter another one. | Protoss isn't OP. Their units on the other hand....

Vathus Canada. January 19 2012 11:42. Posts 379

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David is a really good zerg and I learned a lot about pvz from practicing with him. I highly recommend these videos for any zergs trying to improve.

Hairy United Kingdom. January 19 2012 15:29. Posts 1045

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On January 19 2012 05:39 smwatkin wrote:

Show nested quote +

I agree completely! Does anybody know how to fix this?

Simple; if you can't find a way to raise YOUR volume, you should lower the game volume and Stoic's volume to compensate. It's more important that the balance is correct than the volume, as we can change our volumes at home to fix but can't do anything about the balance!

(you may be able to adjust master video volume after it's done through tools?)

Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits

Hairy United Kingdom. January 19 2012 19:24. Posts 1045

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Also, another suggestion (though if you guys are planning continue with these and raise the quality bar, the #1 really important thing is definitely to sort the sound balance):

Personally I would quite like to see an episode (multiple replays) dedicated to the one matchup. I guess this depends on whether or not you want to be more entertaining or more learning focused. I have watched all of episode 1 and 4 so far, but it feels a little bit... schizophrenic as we are constantly flicking between matchups. I think it would help people learn more if you stick with the one matchup; seeing how the opponents' different openings subtly affect the zerg's play, build and timings etc. When you are switching between entire matchups all the time, it is harder to notice and appreciate some of the subtlety.

A variety of matchups per episode is definitely more entertaining, but not as valuable for learning imo. Do ZvT first! (my win ratios from last 30 games: ZVZ: 66%, ZvP: 67%, ZvT: 10% )

Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits

zul Germany. January 19 2012 20:19. Posts 4059

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i really liked the commentating. thanks and keep going with it.

keep it deep! @zulison

Tobberoth Sweden. January 19 2012 21:12. Posts 4549

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Extremely cool series. While it's great to know how good players think and teaches you a lot of about zerg strategy, it's also cool because it gives insight into how SC2 works at a higher level, giving incentive for players to get better. In lower leagues, it's extremely hard to be consistent and feel secure, because you don't have the knowledge to scout the correct things and react appropriately, which can make every game seem like a coin toss. With this kind of commentary, you can clearly see that at a high level, you can keep track quite decently if you're ahead or not, how risky of a position you're in etc, which in turn gives concistency.

smwatkin Canada. January 19 2012 22:50. Posts 399

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On January 19 2012 19:24 Hairy wrote:
Also, another suggestion (though if you guys are planning continue with these and raise the quality bar, the #1 really important thing is definitely to sort the sound balance):

Personally I would quite like to see an episode (multiple replays) dedicated to the one matchup. I guess this depends on whether or not you want to be more entertaining or more learning focused. I have watched all of episode 1 and 4 so far, but it feels a little bit... schizophrenic as we are constantly flicking between matchups. I think it would help people learn more if you stick with the one matchup; seeing how the opponents' different openings subtly affect the zerg's play, build and timings etc. When you are switching between entire matchups all the time, it is harder to notice and appreciate some of the subtlety.

A variety of matchups per episode is definitely more entertaining, but not as valuable for learning imo. Do ZvT first! (my win ratios from last 30 games: ZVZ: 66%, ZvP: 67%, ZvT: 10% )

Thanks for the help.

I think I've got the sound balance figured out!

RuN Brazil. January 20 2012 02:17. Posts 227

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Really enjoying it so far guys ! Keep it up !

My Portfolio ! http://magalhaes.carbonmade.com/

Sp1der United States. January 20 2012 04:43. Posts 96

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awesome content! these guys are really great!

"If I don't sweat again today, I will be crying tears tomorrow"

HecklerSC January 20 2012 05:07. Posts 4

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Hey man, might want to rehost those replays, megaupload JUST got shut down by the feds.