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By swallowing evil words unsaid, no one has ever harmed his stomach. ~Winston Churchill | VirgilSC2 United States. January 19 2012 03:45. Posts 5743 | Profile Blog # |
On January 19 2012 03:38 Melchior wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:36 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:32 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:24 Shiori wrote:
Alive is a nice guy, but I'm really getting sick of these foreign teams thinking that just because they have money they can somehow void contracts or pretend they don't exist. Alive was, as it seems, manipulated by promises from a company that knew full-well it was going to breach a contract. This is precisely why we need some sort of eSports governing body: so that these sorts of things can be centralized in one place, and so everyone knows who is contracted and for how long. Then, when a team like Fnatic starts doing this sort of thing, they can be reprimanded by said official organization.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with exercising the exit clause of a contract (which any contract worth its salt should have). aLive pays the early-termination fee, breaks the contract, and then he's perfectly free to join any team he wants. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with any organization approaching someone and saying "Hey, if you're ever thinking about a change of scenery, give us a call". aLive states in his interview that he was already planning on leaving before Fnatic contacted him, Coach Lee just wishes he could stop his players from leaving. There's absolutely no way TSL would have the money to enforce a non-compete agreement in the contract, either.
Except this isn't what happened. I'm not sure why everyone seems to believe the back-pedaling of large organizations after the fact. These kind of accidents happen on far too regular of a basis to be considered truly accidental. Fnatic most likely knew about Alive's contract and decided it didn't matter; that, or they don't know how contracts work (or at least the person contacting Alive didn't). Here's why: paying the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone. At the very least, stating that you intend to pay the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone.
Show me where Fnatic has announced they're signing aLive.
Isn’t there a possibility that Fnatic won’t pick you up?
There is that chance. However, Fnatic was also a big part of this situation. I really hope it doesn’t pan out that way. It’s because I was sure Fnatic was going to take me as a player that I am enduring this situation right now. |
| | Clarity Gaming General Manager | ClarityGaming.com | @VirgilSC2 |  |
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| Shadow_Dog Canada. January 19 2012 03:45. Posts 405 | Profile # |
| Fnatic, aLive, and Coach Lee are still in negotiations about signing, fees, contracts, and etc. from what I understood. |
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| turdburgler England. January 19 2012 03:46. Posts 4655 | Profile Blog # |
On January 19 2012 03:43 TeeTS wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:27 Chill wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:24 Shiori wrote:
Alive is a nice guy, but I'm really getting sick of these foreign teams thinking that just because they have money they can somehow void contracts or pretend they don't exist. Alive was, as it seems, manipulated by promises from a company that knew full-well it was going to breach a contract. This is precisely why we need some sort of eSports governing body: so that these sorts of things can be centralized in one place, and so everyone knows who is contracted and for how long. Then, when a team like Fnatic starts doing this sort of thing, they can be reprimanded by said official organization.
Talking to a contracted person isn't against a contract. Making plans for when your contract expires isn't against a contract.
Of course not, but Teams like fanatic should start thinking what they are doing with those actions. They are killing the worth of player contracts. This is so short-sighted by fnatic, who seem to don't expect that any other team may do the same to them. If contracts aren't worth anything anymore, where is the solid basement that teams are supposed to plan their lineup upon? We have several Team leagues starting in the near future. How can teams plan a strategy if they don't know if their star player will be with them until the next match? This whole thing is really killing stability of esports as a team based sport. And fanatic are the ones to blame here at first.
no they arent, in every business like this teams will often resign a player before selling them, knowing that they cant charge a transfer fee if the player becomes a free agent. players who want to leave often agree to this because they have no hard feelings towards their old team.
this is nothing to do with the value of contracts or killing esports.
this seems to be more and more to be about the insular south korean (esports) business market waking up the the global world where people follow the rules but not the spirit, and they need to get used to it. they are happy to involve themselves internationally when we throw money at them, they need to grow up and take the responsibility that comes with that.
Last edit: 2012-01-19 03:46:57 |
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| xBillehx United States. January 19 2012 03:46. Posts 1288 | Profile Blog # |
On January 19 2012 03:41 Melchior wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:38 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:36 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:32 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:24 Shiori wrote:
Alive is a nice guy, but I'm really getting sick of these foreign teams thinking that just because they have money they can somehow void contracts or pretend they don't exist. Alive was, as it seems, manipulated by promises from a company that knew full-well it was going to breach a contract. This is precisely why we need some sort of eSports governing body: so that these sorts of things can be centralized in one place, and so everyone knows who is contracted and for how long. Then, when a team like Fnatic starts doing this sort of thing, they can be reprimanded by said official organization.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with exercising the exit clause of a contract (which any contract worth its salt should have). aLive pays the early-termination fee, breaks the contract, and then he's perfectly free to join any team he wants. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with any organization approaching someone and saying "Hey, if you're ever thinking about a change of scenery, give us a call". aLive states in his interview that he was already planning on leaving before Fnatic contacted him, Coach Lee just wishes he could stop his players from leaving. There's absolutely no way TSL would have the money to enforce a non-compete agreement in the contract, either.
Except this isn't what happened. I'm not sure why everyone seems to believe the back-pedaling of large organizations after the fact. These kind of accidents happen on far too regular of a basis to be considered truly accidental. Fnatic most likely knew about Alive's contract and decided it didn't matter; that, or they don't know how contracts work (or at least the person contacting Alive didn't). Here's why: paying the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone. At the very least, stating that you intend to pay the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone.
Show me where Fnatic has announced they're signing aLive.
Are you joking?
Not here: http://fnatic.com/players/SC2/Not here: http://fnatic.com/news/9475/Fnatic-s-stance-on-aLive-amp-TSL.htmlThe only source for Fnatic's alleged signing of aLive I've been able to find is Coach Lee's own statement.
Or the interview in the OP here where aLive clearly believes he's being signed by Fnatic and that it motivated his decision to break the contract with TSL. |
| | Taengoo ♥ |  |
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| turdburgler England. January 19 2012 03:47. Posts 4655 | Profile Blog # |
On January 19 2012 03:46 xBillehx wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:41 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:36 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:32 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:24 Shiori wrote:
Alive is a nice guy, but I'm really getting sick of these foreign teams thinking that just because they have money they can somehow void contracts or pretend they don't exist. Alive was, as it seems, manipulated by promises from a company that knew full-well it was going to breach a contract. This is precisely why we need some sort of eSports governing body: so that these sorts of things can be centralized in one place, and so everyone knows who is contracted and for how long. Then, when a team like Fnatic starts doing this sort of thing, they can be reprimanded by said official organization.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with exercising the exit clause of a contract (which any contract worth its salt should have). aLive pays the early-termination fee, breaks the contract, and then he's perfectly free to join any team he wants. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with any organization approaching someone and saying "Hey, if you're ever thinking about a change of scenery, give us a call". aLive states in his interview that he was already planning on leaving before Fnatic contacted him, Coach Lee just wishes he could stop his players from leaving. There's absolutely no way TSL would have the money to enforce a non-compete agreement in the contract, either.
Except this isn't what happened. I'm not sure why everyone seems to believe the back-pedaling of large organizations after the fact. These kind of accidents happen on far too regular of a basis to be considered truly accidental. Fnatic most likely knew about Alive's contract and decided it didn't matter; that, or they don't know how contracts work (or at least the person contacting Alive didn't). Here's why: paying the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone. At the very least, stating that you intend to pay the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone.
Show me where Fnatic has announced they're signing aLive.
Are you joking?
Not here: http://fnatic.com/players/SC2/Not here: http://fnatic.com/news/9475/Fnatic-s-stance-on-aLive-amp-TSL.htmlThe only source for Fnatic's alleged signing of aLive I've been able to find is Coach Lee's own statement.
Or the interview in the OP here where aLive clearly believes he's being signed by Fnatic and that it motivated his decision to break the contract with TSL.
future tense |
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| Shiori January 19 2012 03:47. Posts 2816 | Profile Blog # |
On January 19 2012 03:46 xBillehx wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:41 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:36 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:32 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:24 Shiori wrote:
Alive is a nice guy, but I'm really getting sick of these foreign teams thinking that just because they have money they can somehow void contracts or pretend they don't exist. Alive was, as it seems, manipulated by promises from a company that knew full-well it was going to breach a contract. This is precisely why we need some sort of eSports governing body: so that these sorts of things can be centralized in one place, and so everyone knows who is contracted and for how long. Then, when a team like Fnatic starts doing this sort of thing, they can be reprimanded by said official organization.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with exercising the exit clause of a contract (which any contract worth its salt should have). aLive pays the early-termination fee, breaks the contract, and then he's perfectly free to join any team he wants. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with any organization approaching someone and saying "Hey, if you're ever thinking about a change of scenery, give us a call". aLive states in his interview that he was already planning on leaving before Fnatic contacted him, Coach Lee just wishes he could stop his players from leaving. There's absolutely no way TSL would have the money to enforce a non-compete agreement in the contract, either.
Except this isn't what happened. I'm not sure why everyone seems to believe the back-pedaling of large organizations after the fact. These kind of accidents happen on far too regular of a basis to be considered truly accidental. Fnatic most likely knew about Alive's contract and decided it didn't matter; that, or they don't know how contracts work (or at least the person contacting Alive didn't). Here's why: paying the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone. At the very least, stating that you intend to pay the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone.
Show me where Fnatic has announced they're signing aLive.
Are you joking?
Not here: http://fnatic.com/players/SC2/Not here: http://fnatic.com/news/9475/Fnatic-s-stance-on-aLive-amp-TSL.htmlThe only source for Fnatic's alleged signing of aLive I've been able to find is Coach Lee's own statement.
Or the interview in the OP here where aLive clearly believes he's being signed by Fnatic and that it motivated his decision to break the contract with TSL.
This. I mean, if you want to buy into Fnatic's assertion that they're totally innocent in this and that Alive just magically got the idea of being signed by Fnatic, be my guest, but I think everyone knows that's pretty foolish. |
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| leecH Germany. January 19 2012 03:48. Posts 385 | Profile Blog # |
| He is awesome. Teams being all shady and stuff so a player has to come forward and tell us whats going on. A little light and commen sense in all the shady team affairs. |
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| Cuddle Sweden. January 19 2012 03:48. Posts 916 | Profile # |
On January 19 2012 01:42 Fionn wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:37 Pandemona wrote:
So after reading it...AND GETTING SPOILT T.T
aLive....was talking to his mate from fnatic who said they have a deal for you when you leave TSL...WHICH was already on the cards. coach lee technically "Hacks" his skype prints off the chat log....tells aLive i want transfer fee and QQ fnatic. aLive is sorry and says he will pay the fee he just wants out. Coach lee QQs some more, fnatic lie about shit. coach lee gets pissed, aLive gets upset. Shit hits fan. aLive says this......
Next up court action xD
All because coach lee hacked skype.....or he would have 0 evidence. Of course aLive knowinly knew he would get contract from Fnatic but what is stopping him? He WAS in the middle of leaving TSL anyway? He was trying to do things right before people found out he had basically an open invite to join Fnatic.
Coach lee has done bad, Fnatic have done even worst, and poor aLive just wants out of TSL and to play sc2 t.t
I don't get why it's poor Alive. Alive fucked up. It's not like he was a slave on TSL. Even if he didn't like staying there anymore, he signed a professional contract and was getting paid actual money (not Monopoly money) to represent TSL and their sponsors until July. Which is especially important since he was their only current player in Code S and would be the most seen out of all the TSL players at the moment. I know Alive is young and all, but I don't think it's that hard to understand a contract. If Alive wanted to leave, he should have went to Lee directly and left like JYP, Killer and Clide who all got permission to leave without any fuss. JYP and Clide both joined new teams with no problem and are happy where they are. Alive and the translator, who seemed to have started talks of signing a deal before even the Fnatic team knew about it, from my view point, are the ones to blame most harshly in this matter. It makes Fnatic look bad. It makes TSL look bad. Shit, it makes e-sports in general look bad. How is anyone supposed to take this seriously when we have players breaching contracts left and right?
I don't understand how it's illegal to discuss new contracts with other teams while still in another team? Does it state in his contract that he may not speak to anyone about what he's supposed to do when his contract runs out?
He wanted out of TSL, he talked to Fnatic to ensure he had somewhere to go. He then needed a way to get out of contract with TSL...he would either had to break contract (illegal) or ask to get let go. He had talked to Lee on multiple occasions about leaving and not wanting to be a team player. I'm still not clear on what happened. He "left" TSL. How can he leave a team he is contracted to stay on? Either they let him go (free of charge or not) or they enforce him to stay on.
Fnatic did absolutely NOTHING wrong. They're free to make offers to whomever they please. They did not break any laws.
Edit: Re-read and revised.Last edit: 2012-01-19 03:53:00 |
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| dubRa January 19 2012 03:48. Posts 1988 | Profile # |
On January 19 2012 03:43 TeeTS wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:27 Chill wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:24 Shiori wrote:
Alive is a nice guy, but I'm really getting sick of these foreign teams thinking that just because they have money they can somehow void contracts or pretend they don't exist. Alive was, as it seems, manipulated by promises from a company that knew full-well it was going to breach a contract. This is precisely why we need some sort of eSports governing body: so that these sorts of things can be centralized in one place, and so everyone knows who is contracted and for how long. Then, when a team like Fnatic starts doing this sort of thing, they can be reprimanded by said official organization.
Talking to a contracted person isn't against a contract. Making plans for when your contract expires isn't against a contract.
Of course not, but Teams like fanatic should start thinking what they are doing with those actions. They are killing the worth of player contracts. This is so short-sighted by fnatic, who seem to don't expect that any other team may do the same to them. If contracts aren't worth anything anymore, where is the solid basement that teams are supposed to plan their lineup upon? We have several Team leagues starting in the near future. How can teams plan a strategy if they don't know if their star player will be with them until the next match? This whole thing is really killing stability of esports as a team based sport. And fanatic are the ones to blame here at first.
They stated that they didn't initiate any talks with Alive. It was Fnatic's translator and Alive talking in private.
Fnatic statement:
+ Show Spoiler +
However, Fnatic replied through an official statement that Alive had not in fact joined their team, and that they would not have approached him as they knew he was under contract. Fnatic mentioned that while Alive had in fact left the TSL house, it was for reasons unrelated to Fnatic. They acknowledged talk of a move to Fnatic between Alive and Fnatic translator Brian Hyun Choi, but only as part of an informal conversation between friends.
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| | Parting | Huk | Naniwa | Fantasy | Mvp | Snute <3 |  |
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| Blennd United States. January 19 2012 03:48. Posts 255 | Profile # |
On January 19 2012 03:46 xBillehx wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:41 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:36 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:32 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:24 Shiori wrote:
Alive is a nice guy, but I'm really getting sick of these foreign teams thinking that just because they have money they can somehow void contracts or pretend they don't exist. Alive was, as it seems, manipulated by promises from a company that knew full-well it was going to breach a contract. This is precisely why we need some sort of eSports governing body: so that these sorts of things can be centralized in one place, and so everyone knows who is contracted and for how long. Then, when a team like Fnatic starts doing this sort of thing, they can be reprimanded by said official organization.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with exercising the exit clause of a contract (which any contract worth its salt should have). aLive pays the early-termination fee, breaks the contract, and then he's perfectly free to join any team he wants. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with any organization approaching someone and saying "Hey, if you're ever thinking about a change of scenery, give us a call". aLive states in his interview that he was already planning on leaving before Fnatic contacted him, Coach Lee just wishes he could stop his players from leaving. There's absolutely no way TSL would have the money to enforce a non-compete agreement in the contract, either.
Except this isn't what happened. I'm not sure why everyone seems to believe the back-pedaling of large organizations after the fact. These kind of accidents happen on far too regular of a basis to be considered truly accidental. Fnatic most likely knew about Alive's contract and decided it didn't matter; that, or they don't know how contracts work (or at least the person contacting Alive didn't). Here's why: paying the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone. At the very least, stating that you intend to pay the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone.
Show me where Fnatic has announced they're signing aLive.
Are you joking?
Not here: http://fnatic.com/players/SC2/Not here: http://fnatic.com/news/9475/Fnatic-s-stance-on-aLive-amp-TSL.htmlThe only source for Fnatic's alleged signing of aLive I've been able to find is Coach Lee's own statement.
Or the interview in the OP here where aLive clearly believes he's being signed by Fnatic and that it motivated his decision to break the contract with TSL.
Huh? You mean the interview where he clearly states that there is a chance that he won't get signed by Fnatic?
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| Plansix United States. January 19 2012 03:48. Posts 5375 | Profile Blog # |
After this and the Puma "event" I am starting to dislike coach Lee. If even half of what aLive is saying is true, coach Lee shows poor managment and people skills. If you have talented players, you have to keep them happy. If you know they are not happy, you need to be prepared for them to make plans to leave. If they break their contract, but are willing to pay the release fee, then suck it up. And to be very clear, no contract can force a player to play. It is a peice of paper that irons out the intent of both parties. It is binding, but only to a limit. If the player is unhappy enough, they just won't show up or will fight you every step of the way. You can seek relief from the courts, but even a judge knows that s/he cannot force something to do something. They normally tell both parties to go out in the hall and resolve the matter.
The part that bothers me most is the fact that coach Lee ran to the press even after it appeared the matter had resolved itself. If it is true, it is totally unprofessional and disrespectful. Every team has younger players who are going to make mistakes and not follow the terms of the contract to the letter. The coaches and managers need to understand this and help these players mature into the professionals that SC2 needs. They are going to mess up and teams need to accept this and work to resolve the matters privately, deal punishment if necessary and move on. It is no ones intrest to end up in legal gride lock over these issues.
I know one thing, if I was a foreign team, I would demand a confidentiality agreement from coach Lee before discussing signing one of his players. There is no need for the bad press he generates and I would want to have the option of legal action if he decided to run to the press.Last edit: 2012-01-19 03:50:20 |
| | Nony on PvT: "It's not imbalanced, the protoss wins and then there is a five minute death animation for the Terran" |  |
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| Zato Germany. January 19 2012 03:48. Posts 3 | Profile # |
No one of you have seen the contract. We don't even know if aLive broke any terms of the contract yet. Having a conversation about future prospects in a casual conversation with a member of a different team is not necessarily a contract breach. aLive didn't not even started contract negotiations with fnatic (correct me if i'm wrong).
Did he intend to? Yes. And as he said he did this without talking to his coach. But we don't even know if he would have informed his coach in time because, through what seems as an illegal breach of privacy, his coach found out beforehand.
Right now we only know that aLive obviously made a moral mistake, because we neither know the exact terms of his contract regarding the actual events that happened (not would/could have happened) nor did the parties came to a legal conclusion yet. For his moral wrongdoings he appologised.
IMO all three parties acted unprofessional and were mostly concerned about their own reputation. This could have probably been prevented if the coach would have resolved the issue directly and only with aLive & fnatic |
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| raga4ka Bulgaria. January 19 2012 03:50. Posts 5001 | Profile # |
| Coach Lee should make this penalty fee bigger in the future . Then players and other will think twice , about trying to pull a fast one over him . Even if that wasn't Fnatic or aLive's intentions they still did wrong and props to Coach Lee for catching them . Whenever he should have made it public or not it's his decision if he feels that he is being bamboozled and knows whats up , i would bad mounth the other team that isn't respecting me as a manager also . Most of the people don't seem to care about the coaches , because they don't entertain them ... Thats why i think Kespa should take over SC2 in korea , as stupid as some of their decision were they are doing a great job at keeping the BW scene as proffesional as it should be . Last edit: 2012-01-19 03:58:48 |
| | "For the progamer of today and ad infinitum, there will always be the ceiling that is Ma Jae-Yoon. Look on his works, ye mighty, and despair" -Xxio |  |
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| secretary bird January 19 2012 03:51. Posts 447 | Profile # |
| I believe this happens all the time in sports, good players are rare so when a player is known to be unhappy with his team he will be approached by other teams and only if he agrees to switch his old team will be asked for the transfer fee knowing they will get nothing if he leaves after his contract expires anyway. Isnt that what usually happens? |
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| Melchior United States. January 19 2012 03:51. Posts 112 | Profile # |
On January 19 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:46 xBillehx wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:41 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:36 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:32 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:24 Shiori wrote:
Alive is a nice guy, but I'm really getting sick of these foreign teams thinking that just because they have money they can somehow void contracts or pretend they don't exist. Alive was, as it seems, manipulated by promises from a company that knew full-well it was going to breach a contract. This is precisely why we need some sort of eSports governing body: so that these sorts of things can be centralized in one place, and so everyone knows who is contracted and for how long. Then, when a team like Fnatic starts doing this sort of thing, they can be reprimanded by said official organization.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with exercising the exit clause of a contract (which any contract worth its salt should have). aLive pays the early-termination fee, breaks the contract, and then he's perfectly free to join any team he wants. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with any organization approaching someone and saying "Hey, if you're ever thinking about a change of scenery, give us a call". aLive states in his interview that he was already planning on leaving before Fnatic contacted him, Coach Lee just wishes he could stop his players from leaving. There's absolutely no way TSL would have the money to enforce a non-compete agreement in the contract, either.
Except this isn't what happened. I'm not sure why everyone seems to believe the back-pedaling of large organizations after the fact. These kind of accidents happen on far too regular of a basis to be considered truly accidental. Fnatic most likely knew about Alive's contract and decided it didn't matter; that, or they don't know how contracts work (or at least the person contacting Alive didn't). Here's why: paying the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone. At the very least, stating that you intend to pay the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone.
Show me where Fnatic has announced they're signing aLive.
Are you joking?
Not here: http://fnatic.com/players/SC2/Not here: http://fnatic.com/news/9475/Fnatic-s-stance-on-aLive-amp-TSL.htmlThe only source for Fnatic's alleged signing of aLive I've been able to find is Coach Lee's own statement.
Or the interview in the OP here where aLive clearly believes he's being signed by Fnatic and that it motivated his decision to break the contract with TSL.
This. I mean, if you want to buy into Fnatic's assertion that they're totally innocent in this and that Alive just magically got the idea of being signed by Fnatic, be my guest, but I think everyone knows that's pretty foolish.
Oh, I won't deny there were talks, but talk is talk, and there's nothing wrong with talking about potential opportunities. However, the interview also says aLive was looking to get out of the team before being approached by Fnatic.
Regardless, his motivation for terminating the contract early has no effect on its validity. He has not yet been signed by Fnatic. He plans on paying the early termination fee and leaving TSL. What's the problem? |
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| Boonbag France. January 19 2012 03:52. Posts 2137 | Profile Blog # |
| sounds like coach lee wanted to get max money from fnatic imo |
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| SC2Chaos United States. January 19 2012 03:53. Posts 36 | Profile # |
On January 19 2012 03:36 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:32 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:24 Shiori wrote:
Alive is a nice guy, but I'm really getting sick of these foreign teams thinking that just because they have money they can somehow void contracts or pretend they don't exist. Alive was, as it seems, manipulated by promises from a company that knew full-well it was going to breach a contract. This is precisely why we need some sort of eSports governing body: so that these sorts of things can be centralized in one place, and so everyone knows who is contracted and for how long. Then, when a team like Fnatic starts doing this sort of thing, they can be reprimanded by said official organization.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with exercising the exit clause of a contract (which any contract worth its salt should have). aLive pays the early-termination fee, breaks the contract, and then he's perfectly free to join any team he wants. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with any organization approaching someone and saying "Hey, if you're ever thinking about a change of scenery, give us a call". aLive states in his interview that he was already planning on leaving before Fnatic contacted him, Coach Lee just wishes he could stop his players from leaving. There's absolutely no way TSL would have the money to enforce a non-compete agreement in the contract, either.
Except this isn't what happened. I'm not sure why everyone seems to believe the back-pedaling of large organizations after the fact. These kind of accidents happen on far too regular of a basis to be considered truly accidental. Fnatic most likely knew about Alive's contract and decided it didn't matter; that, or they don't know how contracts work (or at least the person contacting Alive didn't). Here's why: paying the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone. At the very least, stating that you intend to pay the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone. From here, it turns into two scenarios: 1) Fnatic is not actually respectful of contracts (worst case scenario) 2) Fnatic has a low standard of professionalism/a lack of protocol (best case) Take your pick.
Edit: nvm
Last edit: 2012-01-19 04:29:58 |
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| Ornithorynquez January 19 2012 03:54. Posts 363 | Profile # |
After that, Coach Lee said he wanted to talk to me. He had printed out my conversation with the Fnatic manager. That skype conversation was logged on my computer, and I’m curious as to how he got access to it.
Wow, i just can't imagine how paranoïd Coach Lee must be after reading this, that's insane.
Besides that I'm asking myself why so many players want to leave TSL, every player gave a fairly good reason, but the malaise seems to be much deeper than that, and nobody wants let the cat out of the bag.
Am I wrong ? Because i read in many posts that the team isn't struggling in term of sponsors (unlike Prime for ex.), they give salaries, and basically money doesnt seems to be a major issue. |
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| Shiori January 19 2012 03:54. Posts 2816 | Profile Blog # |
On January 19 2012 03:51 Melchior wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:47 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:46 xBillehx wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:41 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:38 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:36 Shiori wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:32 Melchior wrote:
On January 19 2012 03:24 Shiori wrote:
Alive is a nice guy, but I'm really getting sick of these foreign teams thinking that just because they have money they can somehow void contracts or pretend they don't exist. Alive was, as it seems, manipulated by promises from a company that knew full-well it was going to breach a contract. This is precisely why we need some sort of eSports governing body: so that these sorts of things can be centralized in one place, and so everyone knows who is contracted and for how long. Then, when a team like Fnatic starts doing this sort of thing, they can be reprimanded by said official organization.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with exercising the exit clause of a contract (which any contract worth its salt should have). aLive pays the early-termination fee, breaks the contract, and then he's perfectly free to join any team he wants. Similarly, there is nothing wrong with any organization approaching someone and saying "Hey, if you're ever thinking about a change of scenery, give us a call". aLive states in his interview that he was already planning on leaving before Fnatic contacted him, Coach Lee just wishes he could stop his players from leaving. There's absolutely no way TSL would have the money to enforce a non-compete agreement in the contract, either.
Except this isn't what happened. I'm not sure why everyone seems to believe the back-pedaling of large organizations after the fact. These kind of accidents happen on far too regular of a basis to be considered truly accidental. Fnatic most likely knew about Alive's contract and decided it didn't matter; that, or they don't know how contracts work (or at least the person contacting Alive didn't). Here's why: paying the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone. At the very least, stating that you intend to pay the exit fee happens before you announce you're signing someone.
Show me where Fnatic has announced they're signing aLive.
Are you joking?
Not here: http://fnatic.com/players/SC2/Not here: http://fnatic.com/news/9475/Fnatic-s-stance-on-aLive-amp-TSL.htmlThe only source for Fnatic's alleged signing of aLive I've been able to find is Coach Lee's own statement.
Or the interview in the OP here where aLive clearly believes he's being signed by Fnatic and that it motivated his decision to break the contract with TSL.
This. I mean, if you want to buy into Fnatic's assertion that they're totally innocent in this and that Alive just magically got the idea of being signed by Fnatic, be my guest, but I think everyone knows that's pretty foolish.
Oh, I won't deny there were talks, but talk is talk, and there's nothing wrong with talking about potential opportunities. However, the interview also says aLive was looking to get out of the team before being approached by Fnatic. Regardless, his motivation for terminating the contract early has no effect on its validity. He has not yet been signed by Fnatic. He plans on paying the early termination fee and leaving TSL. What's the problem?
Depends on how "potential" the opportunities were. If the talks were "look, if you leave TSL, you can join Fnatic" kind of talks, then it's basically a verbal contract. |
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| dubRa January 19 2012 03:55. Posts 1988 | Profile # |
On January 19 2012 03:50 raga4ka wrote:
Coach Lee should make this penalty fee bigger in the future . Then players will think twice , about trying to pull a fast one over him . Even if that wasn't Fnatic or aLive's intentions they still did wrong and props to Coach Lee for catching them . Whenever he should have made it public or not it's his decision if he feels that he is being bamboozled and knows whats up . Most of the people don't seem to care about the coaches , because they don't entertain them ... Thats why i think Kespa should take over SC2 in korea , as stupid as some of their decision were they are doing a great job at keeping the BW scene as proffesional as it should be .
For me this incident only makes Coach Lee seem like a drama queen. Accept the penalty money and move on. If he thinks this is how he get retaliation... In my eyes he only destroys the reputation of TSL. |
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