I have not seen all games yet. But from the games I have seen/remember, I recommend Chrono vs Hider game 2 and 3. The best of five final is recommended too.
EXTRA EXTRA! Starbow has two new lead developers: Xiphias & Decemberscalm! They will lead the development of Starbow into the future!
Personally I will retire on a tropical island with all cash I earned from Starbow so far.
First of all, in all Starcraft games this general rule apply: Many units win over few units. There is no idea to attack with 3 marines into 7 marines. So keeping an army together will often be a good choice. The problem is when the deathball always becomes the best "strategy" to use to win the game.. So I have tried to minimize the need for a deathball in four areas:
Movement - It can often be better to split or spread the units when moving an army across the map. First because of threats like hidden Lurkers, Spider mines, stonger siege tanks shots, suprise Plague, Reaver shots that comes from the dark etc.. Moving everything in a clump can punish a player, since races have more "traps" now.. But it can also be better to send smaller armies to attack at different locations, rather than going with the whole army into a fight.. This is because of the way the economy works. Each player must have more bases at the same time to substain a good income. This decentralizes the economy. Its not always the best idea to move the entire army just to attack and destroy one of your opponents bases. If you do, you might kill 1/4 of that players total income. But consider that the distance between bases is further on most Starbow maps, which puts your army waaay out of position, in case the enemy counter attack you.. So it can be more efficent to harass and deny bases by smaller skirmishes.
Combat - Area of effect-spells, abilities and units are stronger. Players are more rewarded by splitting and seperating their armies in a fight, rather than just A-move with it all in a blob. Here are the following AoE effects in Starbow: Nerve Jammer, Irradiate, EMP, Firebats, Spider Mines, Tanks stronger splash damage (and tanks can overkill which forces seperation of tanks), Vikings AoE attack, Archons, stronger Storm, Phase Missile, Stasis Field, Reaver, Corsair, Baneling, Lurker, Fungal, mid game Plague, Dark Swarm, Corruptor deal splash dmg vs air units..
Economy - Bases generates less income compared to SC2, which means that players need more bases. It is also harder to reach 200/200, aka the "classic" SC2 deathball. Instead players are encouraged to expand more and to deny enemy expansions. This seems to lead to more battles in the midgame.
Defenders advantage - Players are now able to hold of large enemy armies with a relative small number of units. For example, a few lurkers, a few spine crawlers, 1 queen with transfusion and good building placement can whitstand the attack of 15-20 zealots with speed + 1 observer. .. This makes deathball play NOT the best way to go.. With deathball play I mean that it can be bad to A-move with a tightly packed army into a defence like this since there is a risk of loosing a lot of units vs quite few units.. Instead P must use Reavers, Templars or other tricks to destroy the Lurkers and THEN send in the army.. I just think this leads to more interesting play by both players.. of course P could probably take the base with brute force but it will be at a high cost.
Well.. Exactly how is the defenders advantage stronger?
It is a combination of things that together gives the defender a favorable advantage.
- High ground system. All units below other units that shoot or attack up have a 50% chance to miss. If they miss, they deal no damage at all. This happens if for example Stalkers below a cliff shoots at units above the cliff. This also applies in a ramp. For example Zealots that fight enemy Zealots on a ramp favors those who are the highest up on the ramp.
- Races have more defensive features - Terran have Spider mines, stronger Siege tanks and SCVs 60 HP. Zerg have Lurkers, creep regeneration when out of combat and better transfusion on their Spine crawlers. Protoss have Rift, Reavers and can cast Chrono Boost on cannons to increase their attack speed.
My intention is not to make aggressive play impossible. I just want to enable players to take control over parts of the map easier. I think that contributes to a more interesting gameplay, with fights over territory and bases. Players must have methods to control territory.. but of course also methods to attack!
I have put a maximum limit of 2 workers per mineral patch. If there are more workers, you gain no more income. Most bases have eight mineral patches but the main base usually has ten. There is also one geyser per base, which means that the total number of workers on an expansion is 16 on minerals + 3 on gas. The reason for this is to enable players to have more bases, since each base requires a quite small amount of supply..
It is better to have 8+8 workers on two different mineral lines, rather than 16 on the same mineral line.. (They have to wait which decreases their efficency.) Each base also have four mineral patches with only 1000 minerals and four with 1500. The reason for this is to give players some extra economy management. The player who keeps an eye on his bases can benefit by re-saturate or redistribute workers. When there for example is 16 workers working on only four remaining mineral patches..
The ratio between the gas and mineral income is similar to both SC2 and BW: each base generates ca 3 times more minerals than gas.
Yeah right.. Of course the income must be better from one base if you add more than 16 workers to it!
Ok, I admit.. There is a tiny benefit..16 workers on 8 mineral patches gives 585 minerals per minute.. 24 workers on 8 mineral patches gives 588 minerals per minute.. But I will see if I can reduce that!
This feel and look more like BW rather than SC2... What's up with that?
During the first months of this MOD I had the intention to create much more material from scratch - new units, new spells, new macro mechanics and merge it together with stuff from the Starcraft universe. Some of my creations were just bad ideas. Others had the potential to become good. The problem was that it did not really fit with Starcraft. So I decided to stay true to the game and almost purely use content from BW and SC2. If something new was created, it would have to fit and feel good. I also decided to base the gameplay much more on BW since I just find that a much more enjoyable and better designed game. I was also kinda curious to see what SC2 could become IF it was created as some kind of sequel to BW. (Atleast in terms of gameplay.) Since Blizzard did not do it, and no one else either, as far as I know, then I had to do it myself ^^
When I released the first version if it in January 2012, I had no name for it. ("Starcraft 2 Brood War" was already taken ^^ ) I just called it SC2 BoW, but that did not mean anything. I invited people in this thread to help me invent a name for the game. A few weeks later, Danko started to work on this too. So we sent the file between us. One time he named the file "starbow." We started to call it that.
Why do I have so much gas in the beginning? It's so bad to only have one geyser per base!
Don´t put three workers on it if you don´t need so much gas early. -_-
The main reason I only have one geyser per base is to reduce the number of total workers needed. I want that number to be low. If each bases requires little supply, players are able to take more expansions at the same time while STILL have supply for army. But I agree that there is more information to read from two geysers, depending on how the enemy player chooses to take their gas early etc..
Why did you replace the fun Medivac with the boring Dropship?
The Medivac is a cool unit. But I replaced it with the Dropship mainly for three reasons:
1. In Starbow, area control is a crucial component of the gameplay. All races have more methods to secure areas and keep the enemy army at bay. Medivacs kinda nullifies that concept.. It is a unit that BOTH gives Terran a stronger army and superior mobility. It does not matter how well the enemy player tries to secure bases, choke points, ramps, parts of the map.. Terran get super mobility for "free" with the Medivacs and can fly past everything. With "for free" I mean that it has double uses - it strengthens the army in a fight AND it gives mobility. Its a win-win unit. If you can´t win a fight in an area, just load the whole bio ball into the Medivacs and fly past the defences. Of course all races shall be able to drop, harass and attack. But now Terran have the choice - invest in a more durable army with the Medic OR invest in mobility with the Dropship. To add some spice to it I gave it the Ignite Afterburner ability, which allows for more shenanigans and tricks..
2. Much of Starbow is based on the BW balance. Without the Medic, early Terran infantery pushes are very weak. It gave T no methods to early map presence until they reach higher tech. I experimented with other infantery units for Terran but no one did fit. (Especially not the Marauder >.<) When I had only Marine, Firebat and Ghost in the Barrack, it felt very naked...
3. Medic is an extra spell caster for Terran, with rooms for more spells. I aim to make the Medic more useful with other units, besides bio. Right now it can use Matrix even on Siege Tanks, Dropships, Science Vessels, Battlecruisers etc. If there is a "Heart of the Starbow" I plan to add one additional spell to it.
Barracks, Factories, and Starports can be salvaged..? Also, I don't see the reason behind the Gateway/Warp Gate change, seems like you just changed it for the sake of changing it.
this seems interesting, though racial imbalances are probably right there if someone plays enough to discover them. but i can promise that i'll give it a try with a friend some day
Type|NarutO Germany. January 21 2012 03:49. Posts 14987
On January 21 2012 03:42 Itisis wrote: Barracks, Factories, and Starports can be salvaged..? Also, I don't see the reason behind the Gateway/Warp Gate change, seems like you just changed it for the sake of changing it.
This way warpgate and gateway both have an advantage and a disadvantage. If you ask me, this is how it should work. Right now in Starcraft 2 a normal gateway is just a process to get a warpgate.. you could as well just upgrade "Warpgate" and from then on just build warpgates...
The way he puts it will give you the benefit of harassing / instant reinforcements via warpgates, but the cooldown will be slower than the production cycle of a normal gateway.. if you need to macro for defence for example.
all i can say on first sight that Swarm Guardian seems too powerful. all three spells are ridiculously strong for just one unit.
also spider mines iirc are a bit different from bw mines, when they come out of the ground they don't stay idle for a second. this way you could snipe them in bw by attack moving dragoons. iirc in sc2 they come out and immediately target an unit, making them much more hard to snipe. didn't play the map yet but if it's the same as in sc:bw i found that problematic, ppl just don't play enough to exploit it properly (in bw such a thing would break the t matchups immediately).
edit: on 1st sight, just the whole zerg race seems a little too powerful. something like broodlord-swarm guardian-scourge with hydras (i guess hydra is 1 supply) as support seems unstoppable for terran at least.
On January 21 2012 03:42 Itisis wrote: Barracks, Factories, and Starports can be salvaged..?
A way for Terran to become more flexible.
Zerg can switch back and forth between units really easy with their hatcherys.
Protoss as well, because they have their gateways and Gateway units is the core in their army.
If Terran goes bio with lots of barracks, they have to stick to it. With salvage they have the option of switching into factories, starport, or if they have few bases, scrap a couple of buildings to get money for extra units instead.. etc.
If you lose at the beginning of the game; it's cheese If you lose in the middle of the game; it's all in If you lose in the late game; it's imbalance The code of the terrible player
On January 21 2012 08:14 Rkynick wrote: Would you mind shedding some light on how you made the units dumber and less clumped up?
Kinda interested in that. Anyways I'll have to try this out.
It is kinda easy what I´ve done.
If you go to "advanced data" in the data editor and open up "gameplay data", there is a field called formation diameter. The value indicates how all units in a formation will behave. If the value is high units will move in their formation rather then clumping up. If the value is low (as in SC2) units will tend to clump up in a big blob.
I´ve dumbed down the units by making them not auto attack targets that outranges them. If a marine shoots at a zergling the zergling wont auto attack the marine until ordered to attack it. However, if the marine comes really close to the zergling, then it will interact. Units will not chase other units far by themsleves either, until told so. All this can be done in gameplay data
Can you change autorepair, it was already to easy in the campagne ...
If you lose at the beginning of the game; it's cheese If you lose in the middle of the game; it's all in If you lose in the late game; it's imbalance The code of the terrible player
this is the best one of these i have seen. simple, but not too simple.
i can see mass HT being the thing to do. FF and storm? gonna be an essential unit to go to.
love the blink dragoon, feedbck DT (where did that feedback come from?), and the carrier change seems like a no-brainer that blizz should have already implemented. they do that already, but if you are moving, the interceptors will not switch targets properly, and return to the carrier. i guess that's why there's the graviton catapult upgrade to being with.
"think for yourself, question authority"
EternaLLegacy United States. January 21 2012 09:06. Posts 410
I love it! except that if the collosus is now mentally retarded and can't walk up/down cliffs, you should give it some more health. It's way too fragile to be so stupid (think of the ultra and how much health it has and is still consisdered terrible because of its mentality).
Also what does BoW stand for? Brood of Wings? Bacon Onion Wrap?
On January 21 2012 10:06 DYEAlabaster wrote: I love it! except that if the collosus is now mentally retarded and can't walk up/down cliffs, you should give it some more health. It's way too fragile to be so stupid (think of the ultra and how much health it has and is still consisdered terrible because of its mentality).
Also what does BoW stand for? Brood of Wings? Bacon Onion Wrap?
Brings of Warberty? Broods of Wiberty?
EU Masters Protoss Playing For Team SC2Improve ~ www.sc2improve.org ~ "I'd rather play a strategy that is worse but that I feel confident in than play the better strategy not really feeling it and not being 100% behind it" - Grubby
On January 21 2012 10:06 DYEAlabaster wrote: I love it! except that if the collosus is now mentally retarded and can't walk up/down cliffs, you should give it some more health. It's way too fragile to be so stupid (think of the ultra and how much health it has and is still consisdered terrible because of its mentality).
Also what does BoW stand for? Brood of Wings? Bacon Onion Wrap?
The colossus can still walk up and down cliff and is considered both ground and air. It can´t just walk over units. But I would actually like the reaver instead, but it was to hard to add to the map.
I´m glad you ask
It means:
Brood or War Britania or Wales? Back of, Walrus! Billys own walnuts
I do not have a name for my map at all. All sueggestions are welcome ^^