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| Kmatt United States. June 23 2012 23:43. Posts 239 | Profile # |
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but what about keeping both Dragoon and Stalker, and have them in a sort of Roach-Hydra relationship?
Dragoons will the the beefier, tanky, "mean machine that takes shit from no one" unit. Their DPS alone may not be amazing, but they could still kill ground targets reasonably well, especially with help from their buddy...
The Stalker, which in this scenario, can be the agile, fragile (rhyme intended), higher DPS unit with anti-air capabilities.
Both can have their purpose, but you can't just make a single one en masse. Stalkers can have the blink (to fit the theme of mobility) while Dragoons get the hardened shield upgrade (to complement the tanky theme).
Stalkers will still be produced from gateways, though requiring Twilight Council might help ease them in (no early game changes, more incentive to tech as opposed to just massing Dragoons).
Thoughts?Last edit: 2012-06-23 23:46:17 |
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| Jetaap France. June 24 2012 00:09. Posts 2435 | Profile Blog # |
| I think it's risky to add too more units in the mod, it would make the game too confusing. I definitely feel like a choice has to be made between the two units. |
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| Danko__ Poland. June 24 2012 00:59. Posts 380 | Profile # |
Kindish, but somewhere between roach-hydra and marauder-marine i think. Dragoon as core of army, durable, good range, decent burst (overal medicore dps due to slow atk speed, but high burst, especially vs armored) and stalker better vs smaller targets, with higher mobility with harrasing potential. Good speed + blink + blinkbased clifwalk (but no cd, like reaper). Sniping vunurable targets, good support firepower, defending mutas, providing some map control. Not strong in direct battle, but excelent at backstabs.
I dont exactly like comparision to sc2 roach-hydra relation as hydras are terrible there and rarelly used. If hydras were faster then roaches then that would be different prolly. |
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| TaShadan Germany. June 24 2012 01:22. Posts 691 | Profile # |
On June 24 2012 00:59 Danko__ wrote:
Kindish, but somewhere between roach-hydra and marauder-marine i think. Dragoon as core of army, durable, good range, decent burst (overal medicore dps due to slow atk speed, but high burst, especially vs armored) and stalker better vs smaller targets, with higher mobility with harrasing potential. Good speed + blink + blinkbased clifwalk (but no cd, like reaper). Sniping vunurable targets, good support firepower, defending mutas, providing some map control. Not strong in direct battle, but excelent at backstabs.
I dont exactly like comparision to sc2 roach-hydra relation as hydras are terrible there and rarelly used. If hydras were faster then roaches then that would be different prolly.
well this may lead to zealots beeing useless
i agree with jetaap that there shouldnt be to many units with similar purpose |
| | Warcraft 2.5 "http://www.moddb.com/mods/warcraft-25" a fast paced Broodwar/Warcraft2 style mod for Warcraft 3 TFT (without heroes) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264386 | |
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| Danko__ Poland. June 24 2012 01:35. Posts 380 | Profile # |
| Zealots will never be that effective at sniping single lurkers, casters and fighting back mutas ^^ |
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| Laertes June 24 2012 01:42. Posts 408 | Profile Blog # |
| If we make the dragoon beefier, it should have its cost upped and blink removed and have every other parameter be the same. I like being able to warp them in. I also their upgrade at the twilight should be a damage increase. Last edit: 2012-06-24 01:43:30 |
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| Laertes June 24 2012 01:43. Posts 408 | Profile Blog # |
On June 24 2012 01:42 Laertes wrote:
If we make the dragoon beefier, it should have its cost upped and blink removed and have every other parameter be the same. I like being able to warp them in. I also think their upgrade at the twilight should be a damage increase.
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| MNdakota United States. June 24 2012 02:04. Posts 498 | Profile # |
On June 24 2012 01:35 Danko__ wrote:
Zealots will never be that effective at sniping single lurkers, casters and fighting back mutas ^^
That's what a Stargate is for.  |
| | You may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call "failure" is not the falling down, but the staying down. |
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| Kabel Sweden. June 24 2012 02:14. Posts 921 | Profile # |
How is it going in NA?
Got any good games to upload as replays/vods?
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Right now the range upgrade for Dragoons and Tanks exist in 2 levels. First you gain +1 range, later you can upgrade +1 again.
The reason is that in mirror matchupses players can get an edge by choosing to spend resources on further upgrading the range in the key units, if they choose to go for that tech. If it exists in one level, as normal, I think Dragoon range and siege tank range will always be upgraded immediately. Always. The one who does not do that as fast as possible will have a disadvantage.
Right now Dragoon range level 2 requires Twilight council and tank range level 2 requires armory.
So you people think this is good or anus?
Cause I am considering to bring it back to normal againLast edit: 2012-06-24 02:32:26 |
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| MNdakota United States. June 24 2012 02:34. Posts 498 | Profile # |
On June 24 2012 02:14 Kabel wrote:
How is it going in NA?
Got any good games to upload as replays/vods?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Right now the range upgrade for Dragoons and Tanks exist in 2 levels. First you gain +1 range, later you can upgrade +1 again.
The reason is that in mirror matchupses players can get an edge by choosing to spend resources on further upgrading the range in the key units, if they choose to go for that tech. If it exists in one level, as normal, I think Dragoon range and siege tank range will always be upgraded immediately. Always. The one who does not do that as fast as possible will have a disadvantage.
Right now Dragoon range level 2 requires Twilight council and tank range level 2 requires armory.
So you people think this is good or anus?
Cause I am considering to bring it back to normal again
Dragoons should get +2 range like in Brood War and tank shouldn't have an upgrade for range.
Tanks are already good enough as it is.  Last edit: 2012-06-24 02:36:50 |
| | You may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call "failure" is not the falling down, but the staying down. |
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| Danko__ Poland. June 24 2012 03:06. Posts 380 | Profile # |
On June 24 2012 02:04 MNdakota wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 01:35 Danko__ wrote:
Zealots will never be that effective at sniping single lurkers, casters and fighting back mutas ^^
That's what a Stargate is for.
In different way ^^. I belive they can coexist with goons (powerhouse) and stargate corsairs/voids/cariers and zealots.
Laertes June 24 2012 01:42. Posts 138 PM Profile Blog Quote #
If we make the dragoon beefier, it should have its cost upped and blink removed and have every other parameter be the same. I like being able to warp them in. I also their upgrade at the twilight should be a damage increase.
Nope, they dont need their cost upped. Maybe build time a bit. Right now they are crap. Really. Everything is raping them. They cant kite well enough early on, you cant really be too agressive vs terran or zerg. Just buff them, and they will be strong, versalite core of army.
On June 24 2012 02:34 MNdakota wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 02:14 Kabel wrote:
How is it going in NA?
Got any good games to upload as replays/vods?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Right now the range upgrade for Dragoons and Tanks exist in 2 levels. First you gain +1 range, later you can upgrade +1 again.
The reason is that in mirror matchupses players can get an edge by choosing to spend resources on further upgrading the range in the key units, if they choose to go for that tech. If it exists in one level, as normal, I think Dragoon range and siege tank range will always be upgraded immediately. Always. The one who does not do that as fast as possible will have a disadvantage.
Right now Dragoon range level 2 requires Twilight council and tank range level 2 requires armory.
So you people think this is good or anus?
Cause I am considering to bring it back to normal again
Dragoons should get +2 range like in Brood War and tank shouldn't have an upgrade for range. Tanks are already good enough as it is.
I think, right now, tanks are hella op. Not in siege mode (that was intended i guess), but in tank mode. In BW tanks could fight with them in 1 on 1 scenario, now they are raped + they are raping most of other units they are not supposed to.
Last edit: 2012-06-24 03:08:53 |
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| MNdakota United States. June 24 2012 03:15. Posts 498 | Profile # |
On June 24 2012 03:06 Danko__ wrote:
I think, right now, tanks are hella op. Not in siege mode (that was intended i guess), but in tank mode. In BW tanks could fight with them in 1 on 1 scenario, now they are raped + they are raping most of other units they are not supposed to.
Well you have to consider that the unit is 150/100.
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| | You may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call "failure" is not the falling down, but the staying down. |
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| Laertes June 24 2012 03:23. Posts 408 | Profile Blog # |
| I trust you Danko |
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| MNdakota United States. June 24 2012 03:25. Posts 498 | Profile # |
On June 24 2012 03:23 Laertes wrote:I trust you Danko
Get on NA. You're afk and we're waiting for some people. Last edit: 2012-06-24 03:26:10 |
| | You may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call "failure" is not the falling down, but the staying down. |
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| Laertes June 24 2012 03:29. Posts 408 | Profile Blog # |
| Ugh can't, im afk cause im not home, I'm upstate, and trust me, its not where I wanna be... |
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| Danko__ Poland. June 24 2012 03:40. Posts 380 | Profile # |
| Consider that tank is not supposed to be strong in tank mode. He is supposed to be strong in siege mode. And keep in mind goon is supposed to be good vs armored as well and is not cheap shit. Imho (and BW way) siege mode tanks > everything, tanks tank mode < everything (almost like that). Unsieged tank should be able to fight with goon almost equal, barelly beat him, and be raped cost effective by basically most unit. |
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| MNdakota United States. June 24 2012 03:43. Posts 498 | Profile # |
On June 24 2012 03:40 Danko__ wrote:
Consider that tank is not supposed to be strong in tank mode. He is supposed to be strong in siege mode. And keep in mind goon is supposed to be good vs armored as well and is not cheap shit. Imho (and BW way) siege mode tanks > everything, tanks tank mode < everything (almost like that). Unsieged tank should be able to fight with goon almost equal, barelly beat him, and be raped cost effective by basically most unit.
That is something that could be fixed ya. I think he attacks too fast in tank mode. |
| | You may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call "failure" is not the falling down, but the staying down. |
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| Kabel Sweden. June 24 2012 04:02. Posts 921 | Profile # |
Gonna fix unsieged tanks. They are to good now
Last edit: 2012-06-24 04:37:09 |
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| Danko__ Poland. June 24 2012 04:37. Posts 380 | Profile # |
| Thats why im against blink on goon, and i want stalker with blink back. Otherwise its gonna be hard to balance, and we can just skip him then. |
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| TaShadan Germany. June 24 2012 21:21. Posts 691 | Profile # |
| so how did you decide kabel? |
| | Warcraft 2.5 "http://www.moddb.com/mods/warcraft-25" a fast paced Broodwar/Warcraft2 style mod for Warcraft 3 TFT (without heroes) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=264386 | |
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