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| Kerm France. January 26 2012 03:08. Posts 370 | Profile # |
| Thanks for the link, very interesting read. |
| | What i know is that I know nothing - [http://twitter.com/UncleKerm] |  |
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| Insurrectionist Norway. January 26 2012 03:11. Posts 117 | Profile # |
On January 26 2012 03:01 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 02:57 .kv wrote:
glad they are aware of Mutas in PvZ but can't believe there are complaints about emp being too weak
That's how I feel on players saying protoss is to weak. Honestly game balance wise I think the games pretty good. Was an interesting read but not really much was addressed. Sounds like they are probably just going to wait for HOTS for any major changes again.
Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 03:00 sotaporo wrote:
i knew terran was weakest race below pro level=D finally someone with credit says that
They are "weakest" at lower levels because lower level players can't play terran that great. Its not a balance problem its a skill problem.
Yes, that's automatically implied by the fact that terran being weak isn't an issue at pro level. But it is an issue no matter what you call it. Balance below pro-level affects what races people who are starting the game and people who want to try to become pros will choose, to some extent. For an extreme example, if learning how to macro with one race was many times more damanding attention-wise than for the other two, you'd eventually have very few pros playing that race unless it was disproportionately powerful at pro level (which would be a balance problem), since becoming a successful pro with the other two races would be a lot easier.
Not that I think terran will have that issue any time soon, both because so many established pros play terran and because terran still has overall the best performance of the races in SC2 so far, leading wannabe pros towards choosing them.Last edit: 2012-01-26 03:13:09 |
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| AdrianHealey Belgium. January 26 2012 03:11. Posts 479 | Profile # |
| 10 bucks if anyone finds any design/balance topic ever where a blizzard employee does not say "We will keep an eye on it" or any of the sorts. :D |
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 Soleron United Kingdom. January 26 2012 03:12. Posts 1324 | Profile Blog # |
On January 26 2012 03:07 Zeetox wrote: Even though, buffing Phoenix would be quite a good idea, as it is underused in every matchup, in my opinion.
Phoenix range (say +1) would be an interesting change. Wouldn't automatically make the unit OP, and still wouldn't make it an easy or solid unit, but would help the most with mutas while not changing the rest too much. Maybe it would help stargate builds vs Zerg but I feel those have been much less useful since the Spore buff to 6s burrow.
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| Sabu113 United States. January 26 2012 03:13. Posts 6236 | Profile Blog # |
Yes! Vindication via David Kim! :D
DK disagrees with the vocal racial majority on the myth of late game tvp and mutaballs.
edit: I think they're missing an easier change they can do to deal with Mutas (and toss winrate in general)
Whats the last BW map with a ton of open space behind/beside your base? If you get rid of that free airspace you force players to risk more when they do drop plays/ run mutas in to snipe stuff. Seems like an obvious fix.Last edit: 2012-01-26 03:23:21 |
| | "But looking at player’s responses, I think they are correct in calling it “Terrancraft.”- Coach Park |  |
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| ch4ppi Germany. January 26 2012 03:16. Posts 799 | Profile # |
Well this wasnt that interesting ....
Most of the "concerns" seem to be pretty low level. The most interesting part is what he said about the carrier. They dont want to just "Nr. buff" it. This should be their main philosophy when buffing certain units.
For example the Muta vs. Protoss argument:
I can see why Protoss player feel like they miss a proper response. As a Zerg I dont like to play that Muta game either, because I dont think a SC2 game shouldnt be played with a basetrade as part of the plan.
Sure they could buff Phoenix in numbers and make them a true counter to Mutalisks, but what will hapen in those games? Muta and Phoenix bash each others head together and whoever has more will destory the other one, thats boring and not very creative. There has to be a more dynamic more microable way to bring those fights to the battlefield. Scorge would be great to bring a dynamic airbattle into the game, when the Phoenix is really better the mutalisk. (ofc it must loose the shootmove then). This is not a "I want Scourge back", this is more of an example on how to improve micro and dynamics in fight! |
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| flowSthead January 26 2012 03:16. Posts 1035 | Profile Blog # |
| I find it interesting that Zerg is playing well at all levels considering how much Nestea and DRG were complaining at the round of 16 nominations. I'd rather have it Zerg playing well and complaining than being UP and not complaining, but it's still annoying. |
| | "You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler █ MVP ■ MC ■ Boxer ■ Grubby ■ MKP ■ SlayerS ■ oGs/TL █ | |
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| SeaSwift Scotland. January 26 2012 03:16. Posts 4485 | Profile Blog # |
On January 26 2012 03:07 Tsubbi wrote:
somehow it baffles me how blizzard is ignoring the utter domination of terran at the highest skill level, especially korea which is what an esports game should be balanced around
everyone is joking about it, everyone knows it, even koreans joke all the time about it, yet the only glimmer of community interaction by blizzard talks about carriers, nydus worms and ghosts being too weak
what needs to happen, more than 20 terrans in code s?
Wait a couple of months. Terrans are starting to drop out. While there are still 20 Terrans in Code S, extrapolate the graph of Terrans in Code S from a few months ago. At one point there were something like 26, and now they are falling out a bit more.
In addition, bear in mind that while the argument that "Terrans are just better" is bollocks as far as winrates go, the fact that Terran was by far the most attractive race upon release of SC2 (when pros started practicing) does make the concept of more progamers playing Terran a bit easier to understand and accept. |
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| SeaSwift Scotland. January 26 2012 03:19. Posts 4485 | Profile Blog # |
On January 26 2012 03:16 ch4ppi wrote:
Well this wasnt that interesting ....
Most of the "concerns" seem to be pretty low level. The most interesting part is what he said about the carrier. They dont want to just "Nr. buff" it. This should be their main philosophy when buffing certain units.
For example the Muta vs. Protoss argument:
I can see why Protoss player feel like they miss a proper response. As a Zerg I dont like to play that Muta game either, because I dont think a SC2 game shouldnt be played with a basetrade as part of the plan.
Sure they could buff Phoenix in numbers and make them a true counter to Mutalisks, but what will hapen in those games? Muta and Phoenix bash each others head together and whoever has more will destory the other one, thats boring and not very creative. There has to be a more dynamic more microable way to bring those fights to the battlefield. Scorge would be great to bring a dynamic airbattle into the game, when the Phoenix is really better the mutalisk. (ofc it must loose the shootmove then). This is not a "I want Scourge back", this is more of an example on how to improve micro and dynamics in fight!
So because you don't like base racing, you think Protoss has a "proper response" to Mutas?
atm I'm of the opinion that we should wait a while and see how Muta play develops in ZvP, because it's not like 1-1-1 where it just looks broken and is very stylistic, but I don't get your stance on this. |
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| arkedos Germany. January 26 2012 03:20. Posts 575 | Profile # |
| I think EMP is fine. Being a terran player myself (platinum @ eu) I often see that I lose against a protoss because I did not place the EMP properly. Many terrans lose because they throw down the EMP randomly to wear down as much shields as possible but then get killed by storms. I think its right that in the late game it is a bit easier for protoss to control the game, but you have totally all chances as a terran to win the game so I think everything is fine. |
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| ch4ppi Germany. January 26 2012 03:26. Posts 799 | Profile # |
On January 26 2012 03:19 SeaSwift wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 03:16 ch4ppi wrote:
Well this wasnt that interesting ....
Most of the "concerns" seem to be pretty low level. The most interesting part is what he said about the carrier. They dont want to just "Nr. buff" it. This should be their main philosophy when buffing certain units.
For example the Muta vs. Protoss argument:
I can see why Protoss player feel like they miss a proper response. As a Zerg I dont like to play that Muta game either, because I dont think a SC2 game shouldnt be played with a basetrade as part of the plan.
Sure they could buff Phoenix in numbers and make them a true counter to Mutalisks, but what will hapen in those games? Muta and Phoenix bash each others head together and whoever has more will destory the other one, thats boring and not very creative. There has to be a more dynamic more microable way to bring those fights to the battlefield. Scorge would be great to bring a dynamic airbattle into the game, when the Phoenix is really better the mutalisk. (ofc it must loose the shootmove then). This is not a "I want Scourge back", this is more of an example on how to improve micro and dynamics in fight!
So because you don't like base racing, you think Protoss has a "proper response" to Mutas? atm I'm of the opinion that we should wait a while and see how Muta play develops in ZvP, because it's not like 1-1-1 where it just looks broken and is very stylistic, but I don't get your stance on this.
Uhm no.... didnt you read what I wrote?
I dont like base race as part of the main strategy AS Zerg. And I say that protoss LACKS of a proper response to the todays popular Mutaplay. Basicly I agree that Mutas arent a problem like 1-1-1 or other stuff. Protoss might be able to fight mutas better and better over time, but this doesnt a thing about what I said, because the Muta vs protoss stuff wasnt about muta. It was about the way Blizzard should buff. By Design not by numbers! |
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| johnnywup United States. January 26 2012 03:26. Posts 2743 | Profile Blog # |
| mind pasting it here? at school, sites blocked |
| | Infinity Seven #1 Favorite Team~ | Startale #2 favorite~ |  |
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| iky43210 United States. January 26 2012 03:26. Posts 1951 | Profile Blog # |
On January 26 2012 03:07 Tsubbi wrote:
somehow it baffles me how blizzard is ignoring the utter domination of terran at the highest skill level, especially korea which is what an esports game should be balanced around
everyone is joking about it, everyone knows it, even koreans joke all the time about it, yet the only glimmer of community interaction by blizzard talks about carriers, nydus worms and ghosts being too weak
what needs to happen, more than 20 terrans in code s?
so 5 zerg, 5 terran and 2 protoss total champions are "terran total domination" now?
Blizzard shouldn't balance a race just because one race is more favored than other in Korea. It is a unique trend that happens ONLY in korea where there are large amount of terran pros
And it isn't surprising when you have people like Boxer, Nada, and MVP representing as icon of the race. Slayer is practically a team for Terrans to develop secret strats when there's nothing like it for zerg and protoss equivalent. Other zerg and protoss just need to catch up to Nestea/leenock/MC standardsLast edit: 2012-01-26 03:31:01 |
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| JustPassingBy January 26 2012 03:28. Posts 6259 | Profile Blog # |
the problem regarding mutas is that any buff to the phoenix might as well lead to mutas becoming completely useless in the matchup (in small numbers, phoenix are already able to challenge mutas), and that is something I wouldn't like to see.
I do agree though that mass mutas is kind of hard to deal with lategame, but finding a solution for that that does not make the muta completely useless is hard... |
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| Forsy Canada. January 26 2012 03:30. Posts 34 | Profile # |
I think David Kim hit the nail on the head with pretty much every issue, and shows an understanding of not being over-reactionary towards changes.
One thing to note is that the Carrier's role definitely DOES NOT need to overlap with the colossus. While both have long range, the colossus is more known for its constant, long-term dps dealer that was simply MADE to be vulnerable to air units.
The carrier is also long range but not long enough, it could be protoss' way of sniping/breaking through tough defenses, but has not been allowed to fulfill this role because of the insufficient 8 range to release interceptors and this makes them vulnerable to pretty much every AA out there.
Remember that the protoss is outranged completely by Terran, and soon Zerg with the Viper, and protoss' lone long-range unit will be 9 (colossus), and the Void Ray next closest at 7. Protoss in HOTS will constantly be forced to rush into engagements and break contains.
This could be all designed to be the case, but with all casters being outranged by EMP, high templar, sentry, etc may not be able to turn the tables enough for protoss against mass/well-placed ghosts. At least the science Vessel emp was range 8 and didn't cloak, while arbiter stasis was at 9 and could help weaken terran holds.Last edit: 2012-01-26 03:34:07 |
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| Roxy Canada. January 26 2012 03:31. Posts 753 | Profile # |
Well, some attention is better than none.
My thoughts:
Muta vs Protoss
the problem with pheonixes in PvZ is that infestors wreck them. Also, if protoss invests too much into pheonix and zerg say, tech switches into ultralisks, you have a ton of money that is now useless.
I really think that the problem is two-fold. Pheonixes are not good enough vs mutalisks, and they die (like i'm talking an insane amount of money lost, vs just energy). like.. a comparable loss of m-moving 12 infestors into a 4 fully charged high templars.
I agree with what TT1 said about adding splash to pheonix. i think that would not improve their utility against any other units in the game.
I would also suggest that infestors fungal should not stun, it should slow (at the very least against air units). I think this would solve a myriad of other problems in the game as well as make it more interesting to play/watch. (should this happen, zerg may need compensating buffs)Last edit: 2012-01-26 03:31:39 |
| | http://sc2ranks.com/us/941824/Roxy - Masters Protoss: "Respect my authoritai" |
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| johnnywup United States. January 26 2012 03:33. Posts 2743 | Profile Blog # |
| i disagree with tt1, splash would make mutas useless in the matchup |
| | Infinity Seven #1 Favorite Team~ | Startale #2 favorite~ | |
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| acrimoneyius United States. January 26 2012 03:33. Posts 973 | Profile Blog # |
Every time I read one of these Q&A's it always seems to fly past their head that the colossus is not a good design for the game, as the cliff-walking mechanics are gimmicky at best and the counter-unit relationships are very bland (corrupter/viking). This is especially surprising considering they get the opportunity to really switch things up.
Would be nice if ground-mode vikings received mech upgrades, wouldn't care if they reduced the range as a counter-balance. You only see it being useful in TvT.
Other than that, cool read. |
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| johnnywup United States. January 26 2012 03:35. Posts 2743 | Profile Blog # |
On January 26 2012 03:33 acrimoneyius wrote:
Every time I read one of these Q&A's it always seems to fly past their head that the colossus is not a good design for the game, as the cliff-walking mechanics are gimmicky at best and the counter-unit relationships are very bland (corrupter/viking). This is especially surprising considering they get the opportunity to really switch things up.
Would be nice if ground-mode vikings received mech upgrades, wouldn't care if they reduced the range as a counter-balance. You only see it being useful in TvT.
Other than that, cool read.
i agree colossus just aren't fun and aren't exciting to watch. wish it was something like reaver that required a bunch of skill to use the aoe effectively |
| | Infinity Seven #1 Favorite Team~ | Startale #2 favorite~ | |
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| K3Nyy United States. January 26 2012 03:37. Posts 1710 | Profile # |
On January 26 2012 03:31 Roxy wrote:
Well, some attention is better than none.
My thoughts:
Muta vs Protoss
the problem with pheonixes in PvZ is that infestors wreck them. Also, if protoss invests too much into pheonix and zerg say, tech switches into ultralisks, you have a ton of money that is now useless.
I really think that the problem is two-fold. Pheonixes are not good enough vs mutalisks, and they die (like i'm talking an insane amount of money lost, vs just energy). like.. a comparable loss of m-moving 12 infestors into a 4 fully charged high templars.
I agree with what TT1 said about adding splash to pheonix. i think that would not improve their utility against any other units in the game.
I would also suggest that infestors fungal should not stun, it should slow (at the very least against air units). I think this would solve a myriad of other problems in the game as well as make it more interesting to play/watch. (should this happen, zerg may need compensating buffs)
I also think it's because of Zerg doesn't have to commit to Mutas when they scout mass Phoenixes. They'll just switch to Corrupters and then eventually build Infestors while macroing knowing the Protoss doesn't have an army.
I like TT1's suggestion. It doesn't allow Mutas to become a huge ball, which I feel is what every Protoss is struggling with. They can still harass with a handful of Mutas to good effect. |
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