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| Hakanfrog Sweden. January 26 2012 05:58. Posts 501 | Profile # |
| He´s spot on with a lot of the questions. Makes me feel more comfortable with the direction of the game knowing one of the main developers knows what he´s talking about. |
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| Scufo United States. January 26 2012 05:59. Posts 136 | Profile # |
I am happy to see he acknowledged the difficulty of playing Terran below Masters level. In TvP, when both players don't have good micro, P wins.
Most of his answers amount to "this isn't really a problem" or "we're looking into it". Was hoping for something a little more substantial. |
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| Eiaco January 26 2012 06:00. Posts 170 | Profile # |
Here is another one to add to the list
> The Collossus still appears to be in the game.
Seriously, I play Protoss and I just hate this unit. Its not a siege unit at all, its an a-move unit with horrid design. Get this unit out of here. Carriers are 100000x more appealing.Last edit: 2012-01-26 06:00:31 |
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| Condor Hero United States. January 26 2012 06:05. Posts 2672 | Profile Blog # |
On January 26 2012 05:45 RogerChillingworth wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed
I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar.
\ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that.
Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL?
You clearly didn't watch the Code S Ro16 group nominations. No one wants to face toss right now.
You're right I didn't watch group nominations, I watch the actual games. |
| | RIP KT_Violet |  |
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| Dispersion Korea (South). January 26 2012 06:11. Posts 503 | Profile Blog # |
| Still zero talk about how good marines are..or mass ghost/snipe vs Zerg late game. |
| | Don't worry. Taht's just Halo |  |
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| CoR Germany. January 26 2012 06:12. Posts 3037 | Profile # |
| i not understand the Terran Can’t Beat Protoss fact, are there any stats that proves that `? |
| | Kaelarod - The ultimate European villain | |
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| theaxis12 United States. January 26 2012 06:13. Posts 278 | Profile # |
| David Kim: "Ima let you finish, but the game is balanced." |
| | Shut your mouth and put your head back in the clouds. |
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| The Final Boss United States. January 26 2012 06:15. Posts 1813 | Profile # |
On January 26 2012 05:20 flowSthead wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 04:53 The Final Boss wrote:
On January 26 2012 04:38 meltingmykohchoo wrote:
On January 26 2012 04:34 NMHU. wrote:
''Terran Can’t Beat Protoss''
''Ghost EMP is Too Weak''
As a protoss player, I only have to say : ''lol''
- NMHU.
Thank you  hmmm Terran cant beat protoss lololol Emp... Same aoe as storm. Does damage instantly, impossible to dodge also takes energy in aoe / feed back only does 1 unit and costs 2/3rds of the gas. ghosts take 75 gas to tech to. (tech lab n ghost academy) Fuck lets all just play terran!!
Ghosts take 40 seconds to build. High Templar take 5. Ghosts can only build from a Barracks that has a Tech Lab attached to it. High Templar can build anywhere within a pylon radius. EMP does a good job against HT tech--if you micro better than the Protoss--while Ghosts are much less useful against builds in which the Protoss gets Colossi sooner. If a Terran tries to get Ghosts, and the Protoss gets Colossi, timing attacks off of two bases can be devastating because there's almost no way that the Terran can have Vikings to deal with Colossi and upgrades to deal with the massive army. High Templar, on the other hand, do very well against everything in the Terran arsenal. Against Ghosts, you have to micro better, but Ghosts are not a "hard counter" to HTs; it all comes down to who controls better (unless Protoss makes a mistake, in which case that's their fault). Not only do Storm and Archon deal well with any sort of bio push, but Feedback devastates all Terran tech. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecruisers, Medivacs. All of them get demolished by Feedback in the same way that Snipe can demolish Zerg tech late game; the difference: Feedback is a one click wonder that takes next to nothing to do. EMP targets ground, meaning that in an HT vs Ghost 1v1 fight, while the EMP can hit first, for all intents and purposes the Terran has to control far better and control well. The Protoss just has to click to Feedback the Ghost, then it flies to the Ghost and the second it's in range, the Ghost dies. Plus, if the HT has 150+ energy, then the Feedback is near impossible to stop, even if it does not do the killing blow to the Ghost. Try putting your High Templar in a Warp Prism; it's not the hardest micro, it's not like controlling a big Chargelot/Colossi ball is that difficult, and frankly it almost guarantees that you will get off some storms. Good storms in conjunction with Chargelots will beat Terran.
Sure, it all depends on micro, but the comparison is still ridiculous. Feedback is single use while emp can work on every single one of your High Templar. Snipe against Zerg is better than Feedback against Terran. As a Zerg, you cannot stop Ghosts from sniping you without killing them. There is literally no way to stop them from sniping you unless you kill them. If you lose all of the energy on your Thors/Banshees/Battlescruisers, then Feedback does nothing (obviously Medivacs and Ravens need energy to do anything so Feedback is a good counter to those, but it also means you are microing your Raven poorly if it keeps on getting Feedbacked). See if more Terrans would say EMP their Thors and Battlecruisers, maybe Feedback wouldn't be so powerful against late game Terran tech. Look at that. I just solved your Feedback problem for half of your race. Try doing the same for Zerg and snipe.
Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 05:14 The Final Boss wrote:
On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed
I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar.
\ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that.
Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL?
Taeja is one of the top Terran players in the world and he has claimed that he thinks Protoss is the strongest race. Just sayin'... ^^
This is a ridiculous argument. Many players can have many different opinions, but their expertise does not make their opinions true. The fact that Terrans have won the last 3 GSLs and the Blizzard Cup which consisted of 2 TvTs and 2 TvZs should point to the idea that no, Protoss is not the strongest race. Either that or Protoss players suck, but in either case the other races shouldn't have a problem with this.
Banshees need their energy or else they'll get picked out of the sky in no time. And honestly, I understand that you can do that, except that:
1. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecrusiers, and other tech all happen to be extremely gas intensive.
2. Ghosts cost a lot of gas
3. EMPing Thors is going to take a lot of EMPs since the radius got decreased and Thors happen to be huge.
The fact that Terran can do that is different than what I'm saying. I'm merely pointing out that High Templar happen to be extremely good against both Terran bio and Terran tech, while Ghosts are not. I'm not saying that it's some impossible feat to counter, there are plenty of ways (Jjakji used cannons on rocks, which I thought was really clever since most Thor builds result in only a single attack anyways). In the same way, Protoss can just load their High Templar into a Warp Prism and drop them to Storm/Feedback without having to risk getting EMPed. Look at that, I just solved your whole EMP problem (wow that sounded really dumb, just like your post).
Maybe you should read what I was quoting instead of blindly writing something. It wasn't an argument, it was an answer to the question. The guy asked who doesn't want to play Protoss players in the GSL, Taeja doesn't... nice job writing that cute paragraph about how "stupid" I am while making an ass out of yourself.
A little bit off-topic: from a game design's point of view, isn't it kind of stupid that a player is using offensive spells on their own units? Maybe it's just me but that seems like a really stupid thing to have happen. |
| | Bogus Bonjwa STX hwaiting | |
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| Necro)Phagist( Canada. January 26 2012 06:15. Posts 4917 | Profile Blog # |
On January 26 2012 05:09 omgimonfire15 wrote:Protoss Win Rate is Too Low in Tournaments + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J6qFKh.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XII8Mh.png) Internationally, this seems to be a problem, but not in Korea Terran Can’t Beat Protoss- lolwut Ghost EMP is Too Weak-lolwut Forge Fast Expand is Difficult to Stop as Zerg-please see MLG Providence Finals So right now, they are concerned Zerg beat protoss too much (which does not seem to be the case internationally and where Protoss are beating zerg in Korea,) And that protoss beat terran (which is not the case either). Then again, these issues may be focused on the entire starcraft 2 scene, not just the pros.
I agree with everything you said except number 1. and only because they didn't say Protss win rate in tournaments is too low, they say the number of tournaments won by protoss is too low, he said they only reason they haven't changed much is because even though Toss doesn't normally win the whole tournament their win rate during the tournament is good. |
| | "Are you talking to me? Because your authority is not recognized in fort kick ass!"" ||Park Jung Suk|| |MC|HerO|HyuN| | |
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| The Final Boss United States. January 26 2012 06:17. Posts 1813 | Profile # |
On January 26 2012 06:05 Condor Hero wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 05:45 RogerChillingworth wrote:
On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed
I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar.
\ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that.
Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL?
You clearly didn't watch the Code S Ro16 group nominations. No one wants to face toss right now.
You're right I didn't watch group nominations, I watch the actual games.
Then you clearly don't have the information to formulate an argument, while the other person does. |
| | Bogus Bonjwa STX hwaiting | |
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| Necro)Phagist( Canada. January 26 2012 06:21. Posts 4917 | Profile Blog # |
On January 26 2012 06:17 The Final Boss wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 06:05 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 05:45 RogerChillingworth wrote:
On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed
I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar.
\ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that.
Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL?
You clearly didn't watch the Code S Ro16 group nominations. No one wants to face toss right now.
You're right I didn't watch group nominations, I watch the actual games.
Then you clearly don't have the information to formulate an argument, while the other person does.
What? How does watching the nominations mean he can make an argument... the results of the games is what matters... People always claim other races are stronger and that they feel weak etc. The main point is which race actually wins. so imo what players said during the nominations means jack shit the games are the important thing to base an argument off of.
So the guy watching the games imo has more information to form an argument then the guy watching the nominations....
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| | "Are you talking to me? Because your authority is not recognized in fort kick ass!"" ||Park Jung Suk|| |MC|HerO|HyuN| | |
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 ChaosTerran Austria. January 26 2012 06:21. Posts 844 | Profile # |
On January 26 2012 04:29 Klonere wrote:
Its cool that they are listening to the community on current balance issues and FoTM build problems but are Blizzard ever going to tackle the issue of P needing a from the ground up redesign? People in this thread have already pointed out colossus as a badly designed unit and the whole concept of warp-gates is still pretty terrible.
TvP is annoying as hell to play, Terran can crush early-mid game while toss can either go for some all-in or be super passive till they hit three base. Terran can hang outside Tosses natural, splitting armies and dropping while delaying the toss 3rd. Once again we are presented with the scenario where the toss can't do much but defend and keep their colossus/templars and tech buildings alive.
Terran has to go Vikings when they see Colossus and are inevitably going to add ghosts later while toss has nearly zero harass options apart from some surprise DTs or blink-stalkers both of which usually are part of an all-in. Chargelots are boring, minimal micro damage sponges, which lead to the comical situation of a terran player kiting at 300apm while the toss can't actually do anything other than make sure their core ball doesn't fall too far behind the chargelots. I could go on but suffice to say the matchup is flawed and not fun to watch or play.
TvZ is a ridiculous amount of fun though ^^
You make it sound like it's bad thing that protoss don't have to micro their army compared to terran. I'd say that's really good for the protoss, because it's much harder to micro terran units. That is the reason terran is weaker at the low levels. Not balance, terran is just simply harder to play than both other races. |
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| Roxy Canada. January 26 2012 06:24. Posts 753 | Profile # |
If there was ever a thread that blizzard my read my opinions, this is probably it (given they stated they do browse some non-blizzard forums once in a while.
I probably got a little carried away, but I had fun doing it.
These are some changes that I think could make the game more interesting and dynamic.
i know it wont happen, but indulge me
General:
I think upgrade combinations would be very nice. Say, combining the (neosteel/bunker upg. 150/150), (overlord speed/drop 150/150), (observer/prism speed 150/150)
Protoss:
Protoss needs a unit that can deal with heavy early game aggression from Zerg/Terran.
- I propose this unit cost enough gas to be used INSTEAD of, not in addition to sentries
- I propose this unti cost enough food to not be used in addition to the death ball (as the death ball as a whole would be weaker because of supply factors)
- It may very well be justified that this unit only be possible out of a gateway (not warp gate)
- This unit should be strong and cost effective. Potentially require gas, but not cyber core.
Zealot
- Move charge to cyber core
- Charge upgrade should allow zealot to move 0.05 faster than stalker
- Make it either take longer or require a twilight/robo/stargate
Stalker
- Stalker should be able to kite non-stimmed marines indefinitely if micro’d perfectly. A 6 range unit should never get a shot off after a 5 range unit.
- Does not scale well in late game. I suggest +1 vs armor per upgrade.
Observer
- Require twilight/robo/stargate
- Build from nexus
- Speed upgrade from cyber core
Pheonix
- Should splash air units (small)
- Add researchable disruption web (smaller area than BW one because phoenix have other utility than corsair)
- Add energy upgrade for pheonix
High Templar
- Given 7 range attack/ability that does 7 (+3 damage to light) - (chain lightning to 4 units)
- Attack is an autocast spell that attacks as any attack from other units would.
- It costs 10 energy per shot.
- It ignores all shields but does not get bonuses from upgrades.
- Researchable from Templar archives (100/100)
- HT received movement speed buff if charge is researched.
- Archon merge time reduced to same as warp in time. This will allow it to actually be used in battle instead of after.
Sentry
- increase range to 7(casters should be in back)
Nexus
- Abiltiy within 20 range to be used as a shield battery.
- 1 energy = 2 sheild
DT
- Receive a researchable upgrade for 1 of these 2 abilities (can not research both.)
- Can sprint. Is not cloaked while sprinting. Timed ability lasts for 10 seconds. 50% increase move speed. 1 minute cooldown.
- Can phase out for 10 seconds. Immobilized for 5 seconds after phasing back in. still cloaked.
Carrier
- Comes with graviton catapult whatever it is called already researched
- Allow it to research attack while moving ability.
- Reduce cost
- Give extra starting armor (marine should not > carrier)
Immortal
- Researchable siege mode that changes it from anti-ground to anti-air. Cannot move while in siege mode. Same deployment time as siege tank. No splash. 9 range. No hardened shield.
Mothership
- Remove vortex. Archon toilet is lame.
- probably just remove this unit. mega units liek this are dumb.
Terran:
Tech switching against terran can be pretty deadly.
I really think that terran should be able to get those reactor things from the campaign to be able to produce double of any unit they like.
- I think it should require armory
- I think it should cost 50/50
- I think it should disable building untis for 45 seconds while it is upgrading
- I think it should upgrade from a tech lab or a reactor.
Terran repair is really strong. I propose that each scv should have 90% of the repair effectiveness of the last one told to repair. I think it is unreasonable for someone to have to bring their entire army to kill an otherwise undefended expansion (planetary).
Mule
- Replace with SCV calldown. No term of life.
Marauder:
- These units are not good against zealots. Concussion shell is necessary or early terran would just lose to all-zealot pressure.
- I do have a problem with concussion against non-bio units (particularly stalker). I think protoss should be able to poke around with a stalker for scouting intel in the early game without losing it because it takes 1 hit from a marauder.
- Researchable ability on tech lab. Requires armory. Can lay 1 spider mine.
Medivac
- I think a very interesting dynamic for this would for it to have a speed boost that uses up energy.
- This reduces its ability to heal, but may very well save its life.
- Make it fast enough to get away from mutalisks. Perhaps the same speed as phoenix.
Raven
- Raven sucks. I don’t think it is just unexplored, I think it is just bad.
- I recommend replacing raven with science vessel abilities (irradiate/emp/ppd)
- EMP on raven instead of ghost (huge buff. 1 more range than feedback, double the size of current emp, fully deplete all energy and shield)
Ghost
- EMP should be moved to raven (See above)
- As replacement for emp, ti should have something similar to lockdown. Affects mech units and reduces their attack speed by 50% for 3 seconds. (alternative to going Viking vs colo).
- Stun ability should require research
- Ghost should come with cloak
Thor
- Max energy should be 125 (can use its ability once), to reduce feedback effectiveness
Multiple SCV to build a building
- Engine Bay Upgrade
- Require armory
Viking
Air mode is good vs broodlord and colossus. Ground mode sucks whent hey tech swtich. Likeley tech switch is either ling/ultra or zealot/archon
Either (not sure, perhaps a terran could shed more light):
- +dmg to bio (vs zealots/ultra in landed mode)
- +Pierce to bio (ignore armor/shield of bio units in landed mode)
Zerg:
I really think zerg should be more about evolution. As such, they should get small bonuses for having lair or hive tech.
Infestor
- stun is bad mechanics. fungal should slow units similar to marauder.
- Taking control of other units is bad game design. Remove neural. Add dark swarm for sam AOE as fungal would be.
- Re-think the viper as it would be redundant.
- Can research increased move speed for infested terrans
Hive/Lair
- If you possess these, your creep should spread faster (+20% if lair and another +20% compounded with hive).
- If you possess these, your untis move faster on creep (+extra 5% for lair, and compounded 5% for hive).
- If you possess these, your untis regen faster on creep (+extra 20% for lair, and compounded 20% for hive).
- Hive now requires either hydra den, spire, or infestation pit
- Hive should allow overlords to drop creep while moving. Move at reduced rate when activated.
- Hive upgrade 100/100. Muta get 1 extra glaive bounce
- Increase hive and lair cost each by 50/50 and increase time by 40 seconds
Queen
- Ability to upgrade to massive unit
- Require lair
- Spreads creep as it moves (always moves as if on creep as well)
- Same speed as hydra on creep.
- 45 second morph time
- No AA
Zergling
- Auto upgraded for free if you are on lair tech
- If a zergling kills a unit, its attack speed increases by 20% for the rest of its life.
Roach
- Given on lair tech ability (no research required) to have acid stay on ground for 3 seconds. Deal 1 dps to anything standing on it
- Hive upgrade 200/200– reduce roach psi cost to 1.
Hydralisk
- Upgrade 100/100 to have 25% to knock back unit 1 space when hit
Corrupter
- Receives 2 new abilities. All affected by same cooldown time (you can only use 1 of the 3 each 10 seconds)
- Corruption – target takes 25% more damage for 10 seconds
- Reduces range of target by 50% for 10 seconds
- Prevents unit from activating abilities or casting spells for 10 seconds
- Units affected by these are identified in the unit selection bar (lets say they turn purple)
Brood Lord
- All non-light units can push broodlings out of the way as they move.
- Gets ability to turn into a cocoon. Raises armor by 10. Can not attack or move. Loses attack priority in case someone is a-moving. 3 seconds to undo cocoon (activated same as burrow)
Ultralisk
- Can walk over units similar to colossus.
- Can not walk up cliffs
- Researchable ability to do reverse graviton beam (jump up and grab non-massive air unit and bring to ground)
UI/general Suggestions:
- whenever a unit is killed holding minerals or gas, those resources drop onto the ground campaign style. can be picked up by anyone.
- separate rally point for overlords
- main base should show how many workers you currently have.
- a timer (larva inject/mule style) for chronoboost.
- a timer on warpgates (same style as above, in the selection bar).
- ability to inject and chronoboost from the control(selected unit) panel
- range being displayed on all spellcasters (some show range, some dont. be consistent).
- idle creep tumor button
- attack/rally points
- a button you can press that drops 1 unit from your army (for ling/baneling micro, and transfering workers to each mineral patch/gas)
- click on your main building and have it show you your income.
- resource/unit counting bar position above minimap
- option of hiding hitpoint bars of full/health allied units
- fix ultralisk pathing (imo all massive units should push non-massive units out of the way – particularly issue with ultra and archon.. sometimes thor. Broodlings should not stop these massive units from moving.)
- stalker warpin size should actually reflect the size of the unit
- fix colossus pathing over the mineral lines and ramps
- pylon power radius back to what it used to be
- pylon does not power high ground. (think of it powering like a hose would leak water)
- can warp units in on ramps again.
- if you have a PF and OC selected, they create SCV evenly.
-burrow/unburrow / supply depot up/down is different hotkey.
- Ability to rebind ctrl key to the ` key.
- ability to hotkey the team tab so you can quickly see what race your opponent is when you weren’t paying attention in loading screen.
Last edit: 2012-01-26 06:24:49 |
| | http://sc2ranks.com/us/941824/Roxy - Masters Protoss: "Respect my authoritai" |
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| Sumahi Guam. January 26 2012 06:25. Posts 4930 | Profile Blog # |
| I hope the carrier does stay, but I'm interested to see how they'd augment it to give it a clearer role. |
| | Startale <3, ST_July <3, HongUn <3, Savior <3, Gretorp <3, Nada <3, Rainbow <3, Ret <3, Squirtle <3, Bomber <3 |  |
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| redechelon January 26 2012 06:26. Posts 17 | Profile # |
Complaints of mass Muta vs. Protoss is confusing to me. Templar tech shreds Mutas. Quit massing stalker.
I'm also confused by the want to buff Terran at lower levels... The concept of Terran seems easiest to grasp by new players, and they're extremely versatile. |
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| CikaZombi Serbia. January 26 2012 06:27. Posts 458 | Profile # |
Whether you agree or disagree with the things Kim or Browder say, I freaking love their new approach to the community.
These semi-regular insights into their thought process and their vision of the current trends plus the way they simply just
answer the questions and not dance around them is awesome. And their regularity is spot on as well, it would really be meaningless if it was more frequent. |
| | You can no more evade my wrath, than you could your own shadow. |
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| flowSthead January 26 2012 06:28. Posts 1035 | Profile Blog # |
On January 26 2012 06:15 The Final Boss wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 26 2012 05:20 flowSthead wrote:
On January 26 2012 04:53 The Final Boss wrote:
On January 26 2012 04:38 meltingmykohchoo wrote:
On January 26 2012 04:34 NMHU. wrote:
''Terran Can’t Beat Protoss''
''Ghost EMP is Too Weak''
As a protoss player, I only have to say : ''lol''
- NMHU.
Thank you hmmm Terran cant beat protoss lololol Emp... Same aoe as storm. Does damage instantly, impossible to dodge also takes energy in aoe / feed back only does 1 unit and costs 2/3rds of the gas. ghosts take 75 gas to tech to. (tech lab n ghost academy) Fuck lets all just play terran!!
Ghosts take 40 seconds to build. High Templar take 5. Ghosts can only build from a Barracks that has a Tech Lab attached to it. High Templar can build anywhere within a pylon radius. EMP does a good job against HT tech--if you micro better than the Protoss--while Ghosts are much less useful against builds in which the Protoss gets Colossi sooner. If a Terran tries to get Ghosts, and the Protoss gets Colossi, timing attacks off of two bases can be devastating because there's almost no way that the Terran can have Vikings to deal with Colossi and upgrades to deal with the massive army. High Templar, on the other hand, do very well against everything in the Terran arsenal. Against Ghosts, you have to micro better, but Ghosts are not a "hard counter" to HTs; it all comes down to who controls better (unless Protoss makes a mistake, in which case that's their fault). Not only do Storm and Archon deal well with any sort of bio push, but Feedback devastates all Terran tech. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecruisers, Medivacs. All of them get demolished by Feedback in the same way that Snipe can demolish Zerg tech late game; the difference: Feedback is a one click wonder that takes next to nothing to do. EMP targets ground, meaning that in an HT vs Ghost 1v1 fight, while the EMP can hit first, for all intents and purposes the Terran has to control far better and control well. The Protoss just has to click to Feedback the Ghost, then it flies to the Ghost and the second it's in range, the Ghost dies. Plus, if the HT has 150+ energy, then the Feedback is near impossible to stop, even if it does not do the killing blow to the Ghost. Try putting your High Templar in a Warp Prism; it's not the hardest micro, it's not like controlling a big Chargelot/Colossi ball is that difficult, and frankly it almost guarantees that you will get off some storms. Good storms in conjunction with Chargelots will beat Terran.
Sure, it all depends on micro, but the comparison is still ridiculous. Feedback is single use while emp can work on every single one of your High Templar. Snipe against Zerg is better than Feedback against Terran. As a Zerg, you cannot stop Ghosts from sniping you without killing them. There is literally no way to stop them from sniping you unless you kill them. If you lose all of the energy on your Thors/Banshees/Battlescruisers, then Feedback does nothing (obviously Medivacs and Ravens need energy to do anything so Feedback is a good counter to those, but it also means you are microing your Raven poorly if it keeps on getting Feedbacked). See if more Terrans would say EMP their Thors and Battlecruisers, maybe Feedback wouldn't be so powerful against late game Terran tech. Look at that. I just solved your Feedback problem for half of your race. Try doing the same for Zerg and snipe.
On January 26 2012 05:14 The Final Boss wrote:
On January 26 2012 05:10 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 05:07 RogerChillingworth wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:38 Condor Hero wrote:
On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed
I think it would be a good idea to give Phoenix an upgrade that allows splash instead of a slow ass capital ship I would never build because if I had that much money/time I would just add more templar.
\ Do you understand how much splash protoss already has? Phoenix having splash would be the 4th unit, and one that can move-shoot in a way other units cannot. Protoss doesn't need more splash damage -_-- I know it can seem difficult to grasp from a protoss perspective, but the minute zerg has a unit to control the map, it's ''overpowered''. don't even have lurkers in the game. Also, no one wants to face a protoss in the GSL. There's a reason for that.
Fine then make Protoss units cost 50% of what they cost now and nobody needs to splash. Who doesn't want to face P in GSL?
Taeja is one of the top Terran players in the world and he has claimed that he thinks Protoss is the strongest race. Just sayin'... ^^
This is a ridiculous argument. Many players can have many different opinions, but their expertise does not make their opinions true. The fact that Terrans have won the last 3 GSLs and the Blizzard Cup which consisted of 2 TvTs and 2 TvZs should point to the idea that no, Protoss is not the strongest race. Either that or Protoss players suck, but in either case the other races shouldn't have a problem with this.
Banshees need their energy or else they'll get picked out of the sky in no time. And honestly, I understand that you can do that, except that: 1. Thors, Banshees, Ravens, Battlecrusiers, and other tech all happen to be extremely gas intensive. 2. Ghosts cost a lot of gas 3. EMPing Thors is going to take a lot of EMPs since the radius got decreased and Thors happen to be huge. The fact that Terran can do that is different than what I'm saying. I'm merely pointing out that High Templar happen to be extremely good against both Terran bio and Terran tech, while Ghosts are not. I'm not saying that it's some impossible feat to counter, there are plenty of ways (Jjakji used cannons on rocks, which I thought was really clever since most Thor builds result in only a single attack anyways). In the same way, Protoss can just load their High Templar into a Warp Prism and drop them to Storm/Feedback without having to risk getting EMPed. Look at that, I just solved your whole EMP problem (wow that sounded really dumb, just like your post). Maybe you should read what I was quoting instead of blindly writing something. It wasn't an argument, it was an answer to the question. The guy asked who doesn't want to play Protoss players in the GSL, Taeja doesn't... nice job writing that cute paragraph about how "stupid" I am while making an ass out of yourself. A little bit off-topic: from a game design's point of view, isn't it kind of stupid that a player is using offensive spells on their own units? Maybe it's just me but that seems like a really stupid thing to have happen.
Depending on how they are used, Banshees can be used effectively without cloak. As well, Banshees with cloak will not be Feedbacked if all of the observers are killed beforehand, which with a large end game Terran army that will have some Vikings should be possible, even if difficult. (Also, I believe Nada was the one to use that on the Rocks, but I could be wrong. It definitely wasn't Jjakji though since he didn't have Protoss in his group.)
As for you solving my EMP problem, that would be nice except for EMP still being effective against the rest of the Protoss army, such as the Zealots, Stalkers, Sentries, and Archons. And certainly I agree that as Protoss get better at multitasking they will be using Warp Prismed High Templar more often. But that is not addressing the point I made.
Here is what you said
All of them get demolished by Feedback in the same way that Snipe can demolish Zerg tech late game; the difference: Feedback is a one click wonder that takes next to nothing to do.
Here is what I said
Snipe against Zerg is better than Feedback against Terran. As a Zerg, you cannot stop Ghosts from sniping you without killing them.
You chose to compare Snipe with Feedback and made the conclusion that Feedback against Terran is better than Snipe against Zerg, which was ridiculous and why I responded to you. I didn't respond to the guy before you because you can actually write in full sentences and seem to have a generally good idea of what you are talking about, but that comparison annoyed me. I also never called you stupid, although it seems like now I should since your reading comprehension isn't very good.
Look, I don't play Zerg or Protoss. I play Terran, and my favorite players are Terran and Protoss, with Zerg being my least favorite. But Snipe has got to be the most ridiculous spell in the game with how easy it is to use and how much damage it does to Zerg late game tech. Do I think it is overpowered? Not necessarily. Maybe, but probably not. The only real spell I hate is Forcefields because I think they unnecessarily weaken Protoss, and I am not a fan of any spell in general that is anti-micro (like Fungals and Forcefield) but I don't think they are overpowered.
I replied to you because you made a stupid comparison to Snipe with Feedback. And yes, you were making an argument hence your last sentence:
Good storms in conjunction with Chargelots will beat Terran
EDIT: Ignore that last sentence, I realize I replied to you twice just now and it was the second response that you were saying you weren't making an argument in. My bad.Last edit: 2012-01-26 06:31:00 |
| | "You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler █ MVP ■ MC ■ Boxer ■ Grubby ■ MKP ■ SlayerS ■ oGs/TL █ | |
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| architecture United States. January 26 2012 06:29. Posts 554 | Profile Blog # |
Why are people such idiots about Feedback?
For PvT, Feedback COUNTERS drops. You're right, Feedback doesn't stack up in HT vs Ghost. But that DOESN'T matter, because the PRIMARY usage is to shut down Medivacs, which let me remind you are nearly as expensive as any caster.
It's like saying why does EMP suck, it can't kill units like Storm. That's because that's not its usage. The PURPOSE of ghost is to nullify templar.Last edit: 2012-01-26 06:30:20 |
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| bgx Poland. January 26 2012 06:29. Posts 6501 | Profile # |
On January 26 2012 03:08 mTwTT1 wrote:
phoenix's deal splash damage to air units. bam problem fixed
pff? sounds like a corsair? No way man, we will scrap carrier and add CAPITAL ship just for that purpose. |
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| Dispersion Korea (South). January 26 2012 06:30. Posts 503 | Profile Blog # |
| You just made every Zerg die to cloaked banshees and VR/Phoenix pushes. |
| | Don't worry. Taht's just Halo | |
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