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[D] Specific counter picks - Page 7

Forum Index > League of Legends 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 All
 
 Navi   Korea (South). February 06 2012 04:22. Posts 3264
Profile # 

On February 05 2012 21:20 Alaric wrote:
I think that's because we have different views on what is needed to "counter" a champ : apparently Navi said Morg counters Gragas because Black Shield negates his ult displacement and turns the lane into a farmfest where Gragas can't get kills. Whereas I say Gragas counters Morg because he can instaclear and prevent her from afk pool-farming, while escaping her ultimate and retaining his own ability to instaclear then roam.

Also, Navi has substantially better understanding of the game than myself and has an higher Elo, which means he plays with/against better Gragas/Morgana than I do (lots of bad Morgs at low level, even when people claim she's simple), so when in doubt, stick with him.


i apologize, didn't mean to equate that "black sh ield blocking his ult = counter"

i was just thinking, what is invulnerable or affects grag ult
and was making a list

that matchup actually fairly stagnant at the beginning, morg usually cannot reliably get harass on grag (he is more likely to land his q on her than vice versa) and her autoattack range is mediocre (if he attempts to autoattack gragas regularly she sets herself up for barrels or even body slams if positioned so) so her auto harass is minimal at best

agreed that gragas has more mobility and more ability to gank post blues, but if the jungler should decide to hold lane morgana can also exert a lot of countergank power by following him

wouldn't mention it as a big counter either way, but not a bad matchup for grag relative to other matchups vs APs
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 Navi   Korea (South). February 06 2012 04:29. Posts 3264
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On February 05 2012 22:34 Humbuuzio wrote:

Show nested quote +


The conclusions are from my own experience. However, I actually learned yesterday that the Riven vs GP dynamic is more like you describe than what I did. If Riven plays supremely defensive early on, she can win later on.

Udyr getting destroyed by Riven with BF / BT I kind of don't think is correct, however I must test it out against a good Udyr. I hope I'm wrong and learn something. I also agree Riven scales better, but the post is only about the laning phase.

Riven beats Nasus really early, but if Riven starts trading she automatically pushes the lane. Also fear of the enemy jungler makes it hard to commit hard enough early enough to make a difference. Exactly as you described with Riven vs GP, Nasus can forfeit the early creeps and farm at tower.

You also don't think Lee is strong vs Riven? Could you tell me why you think it is so? Lee is a lot worse late game, but this is about the laning phase. I think his build in sustain and E allow him to be effective against Riven, though it most definitely is not a hard counter.

Could you elaborate on any other weird conclusions you got from me? It's hard to find good sources of information about these matters. Who do you think counters Riven?


riven does not fear trading farm with even nasus, as she deals much more AoE damage all game and is minimally affected by his wither due to a large part of her mobility and damage coming from her spells. coupled with the fact that she can bully him and has greater pushing ability, she can control the lane as she pleases

lee loses trades, riven can force him to w away just by being near him (fear of being stunned etc). when those kinds of situations come into play then you are automatically being put onto the back foot. its not even as if riven has mana costs so she loses nothing in these situations.

olaf outdamages riven at close ranges post level 5, as stacking a defensive stat is useless vs. his E. in this case you want to build dblades for the buffer HP and run ignite and maybe even heal if you're really afraid - and then the trades will be very close. he reaches his peak of power at around level 7, so you want to play passively and ask for ganks then - once you're around level 11 everything stagnates out, and by lategame you are far more useful
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 Navi   Korea (South). February 06 2012 17:06. Posts 3264
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Heimerdinger: (Mid)
+ Show Spoiler +

Irelia: (Top)
+ Show Spoiler +


i need to think of more irelia counterpicks
against heimer, if you can avoid most of his rockets or trade favorably through his passive you should be fine - his kill threat is not very large, you either need to be able to pressure kills onto him or deal with his pushing
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 De4ngus   United States. February 06 2012 17:38. Posts 4979
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i like nasus vs irelia
GANDHISAUCE
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 Zerksys   United States. February 06 2012 18:42. Posts 560
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Some champs that I play:

Garen
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Ahri
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Nasus
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Kennen
+ Show Spoiler +

Singed
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What's that probe doing there? It's a scout. You mean one of those flying planes? No....
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 mr_tolkien   France. February 06 2012 18:48. Posts 3349
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Pantheon is very strong VS Irelia, since she needs to hit creeps to sustain. GP as well as very good early levels but needs ignite if he wants to win a 1v1 pre 6.
WW never loses a 1v1 to Irelia at any point in the game and can bully her post 7 very hard.

But as I don't own Irelia I can't really explain exactly how they beat her >.> Friggin 6k3 champs.
French Caster - http://www.youtube.com/user/mrtolkien
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 Senx   Sweden. February 06 2012 21:39. Posts 5019
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Doesnt malphite do well against GP?
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
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 Slayer91   Ireland. February 06 2012 21:46. Posts 8841
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On February 06 2012 17:38 De4ngus wrote:
i like nasus vs irelia


Nasus is very strong against irelia.
Cognito ergo diablo.
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 Navi   Korea (South). February 06 2012 23:08. Posts 3264
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i dont play irelia extensively either but one of my mates mains her, so ill go over these with him :D
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 Haasts   New Zealand. February 06 2012 23:31. Posts 1209
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On February 06 2012 18:42 Zerksys wrote:


Ahri
Last but not least, both brand and fizz can last hit under towers pretty well. This is central since she pushes so hard.
...
Ryze is also a good choice vs. ahri becuase of his bind. She can't run away from ryze's bind with her ult.


Speaking as a Ryze player, while I've certainly done OK vs Ahri mid-lategame in teamfights when I've been in another lane or I've been babysat, her ranged lane-shoving and sustain means I'm often attempting to last-hit under my tower while she gallops downriver to gank top/bot. While I'm certainly a rather shabby Ryze, I feel in the laning phase Ahri has a distinct advantage.
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 Navi   Korea (South). February 07 2012 03:18. Posts 3264
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Jarvan: (Top)
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Karthus: (Mid / Top)
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Kassadin: (Mid)
+ Show Spoiler +
Last edit: 2012-02-07 06:14:40
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 Navi   Korea (South). February 07 2012 03:30. Posts 3264
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On February 05 2012 07:29 Navi wrote:
Galio: (Top / Mid)
+ Show Spoiler +

Gangplank: (Top / Mid)
+ Show Spoiler +

Gragas: (Top / Mid)
+ Show Spoiler +

i skip fizz cuz i dont like fish



an addition to the gragas list: kassadin
Gragas: (Top / Mid)
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 Zerksys   United States. February 07 2012 13:49. Posts 560
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On February 06 2012 23:31 Haasts wrote:

Show nested quote +



Speaking as a Ryze player, while I've certainly done OK vs Ahri mid-lategame in teamfights when I've been in another lane or I've been babysat, her ranged lane-shoving and sustain means I'm often attempting to last-hit under my tower while she gallops downriver to gank top/bot. While I'm certainly a rather shabby Ryze, I feel in the laning phase Ahri has a distinct advantage.


The thing is that if she shoves the lane up into your tower she wastes a ton of mana early game. As ryze you can outlast her. The best part comes when you jungler comes to gank. The instant she gets cced she's dead if you're a good ryze.
Last edit: 2012-02-07 13:51:43
What's that probe doing there? It's a scout. You mean one of those flying planes? No....
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 NotSorry   United States. February 07 2012 15:42. Posts 5329
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Singed - Top


+ Show Spoiler +
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
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 Hidden_MotiveS   Canada. February 10 2012 23:38. Posts 2019
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In a solo lane, is there anything that counters caitlyn or lux in lane? Lux just fires bindings till she hits, and if she doesn't runs away till her cd is back. It's hard to trade evenly with cait bcuz of her range.

I guess this isn't really a counterpick since you never know when a cait is gonna solo.

I mean I didn't really lose lane.. cait got ganked and died a few times , lux never really got kills, I just couldn't trade them effectively.
Last edit: 2012-02-10 23:42:06
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 Xedat   Germany. February 11 2012 00:56. Posts 283
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I think with caith its like with garen, every other ad carry will be more useful later, so if you you farm evenly and don't die you come out ahead. From what I have gathered caith is supposed to counter all other ad carries in lane and falls off later.
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 Xedat   Germany. February 11 2012 00:59. Posts 283
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On February 07 2012 15:42 NotSorry wrote:
Singed - Top


+ Show Spoiler +


I am not quite sure, but I think we try to stick to the current meta for counters,

Singed - Top


+ Show Spoiler +
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 Navi   Korea (South). February 11 2012 03:21. Posts 3264
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On February 10 2012 23:38 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
In a solo lane, is there anything that counters caitlyn or lux in lane? Lux just fires bindings till she hits, and if she doesn't runs away till her cd is back. It's hard to trade evenly with cait bcuz of her range.

I guess this isn't really a counterpick since you never know when a cait is gonna solo.

I mean I didn't really lose lane.. cait got ganked and died a few times , lux never really got kills, I just couldn't trade them effectively.


GP is strong against lux in a solo lane
Lux has difficulty locking down GP or setting him up to ganks due to his oranges. It is also difficult or impossible to rune for enough mana regen AND armor to trade with GP's relatively low mana and highly efficient parley with lux's typical caster level mana consumption and low base armor. if GP opens regrowth and runes with MR, he should have no way to lose that lane (assuming solo)

cait has no clear counter in a duo lane, but a lot of AD's don't mind trading farm with her. For right now, sivir has a relatively smooth laning phase vs. her with most strong supports - hardly a counter, though
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 O-ops   United States. February 11 2012 03:40. Posts 2497
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Add Rumble to the Akali counters section. That match is so free ;(
Fan of the Jangbanger
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 Navi   Korea (South). February 11 2012 06:21. Posts 3264
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Kennen: (Mid / Top)
+ Show Spoiler +
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