On February 04 2012 13:03 Efficient wrote: Before I get my hopes up that any of this will change in HOTS, does anyone know how difficult these changes would be to implement? We've been told not to expect LAN for the entire production cycle of SC2 because it would be impossible to reconcile with the way they implemented battle.net 2.0 Would there be a similar problem for the other changes the OP pined about?
No. LAN is one thing, but has nothing to do with the difficulty of implementation and more to do with Blizzard's paranoia of losing a cent somewhere (they probably fire accountants for rounding hundredths of cents). The other features are easy to implement, ranging from a 5 minute job (name change) to a slightly more complicated but hardly difficult task like shared replays.
I read the OP and I agree completely. We really need to press the issue with Blizzard even if it means waiting until HOTS. It took them forever to implement the chat which could be improved greatly and that was with a LOT of people complaining.
Please don't let this thread die. I'd also encourage everyone to post on their relevant Battle.net forums (yes, I know, half the people on there are trolls, but everyone at least agrees on this, more or less) until Blizzard is forced to either delete threads en masse or reply.
fuzzy_panda New Zealand. February 04 2012 14:16. Posts 1137
Totally agree with everything in this thread. I still occasionally go to the internet cafe to play some WC3 custom games like Dota. I haven't touched Starcraft 2 since probably last September. If Battlenet is gonna be like this in HOTS, i probably won't be buying the game. Will probably just play the campaign at a friends place or something but that's about it. Tournaments are still fun to watch though.
Also Husky just posted this:
It's ridiculous the amount of awesome stuff that was in War3 almost a decade ago that is missing from Battlenet 2.0. I thought the design philosophy for services like Battlnet are to actually improve with every iteration, not take out often used features that fans love. I can understand LAN not being there, but just look at how easy it is to change your name, create clans, automated tournaments...etc It's just fucking bullshit what we have right now.
On February 04 2012 04:53 arterian wrote: Blizzard has no incentive to do any of this. Nobody is not buying or leaving the game because of these features.
Not necessarily true, two friends of mine are holding out on the game, one until cross-region play, the other until proper clan/chat/community/tournament support.
I find it amusing that the UI of this new game is worse than BW from 11 years ago.
"It is really good to get the double observatory if you want to get the speed and sight range for the observer simultaneously. It's a little bit of an advanced tactic, and by advanced, I mean really fucking bad."
killa_robot Canada. February 04 2012 17:34. Posts 982
I agree with everything and would like to add a few more:
The custom game systems has quite a few technical issues, along with it's other obvious flaws.
- You can't cancel downloading a map. I accidentally picked a map I didn't want to play and it wouldn't let me cancel it or choose a different game until it was done (and it was going at like 1% per few seconds). I have to log out then log back in - If you leave during a game in the first few minutes, then attempt to play another game shortly after, you'll get disconnected once the game starts.
I'm sure there's more too, these are just the ones that annoy the hell out of me.
But yea, every single aspect of B.Net 2.0 is fucken terrible and makes you feel alone. Honestly I'm really tempted to just say fuck you Blizzard and not buy the next one.
For reference I used to be completely Pro-Blizzard and thought they were the best. Then they handed me this shit and told me it was awesome...feels bad.
Last edit: 2012-02-04 17:36:40
sabas123 Netherlands. February 04 2012 17:39. Posts 1163
On February 04 2012 17:20 HowardRoark wrote: I find it amusing that the UI of this new game is worse than BW from 11 years ago.
lo it isnt, the only thing is the commands are handy. but did you ever trained with friends?? ifso when you play a few hour sesion you dont want to alt j "name""password" everysingle time you can yust rightclick and join the game instatly..... and that the game starts when the host is afk is a great 1 btw
The harder it becomes, the more you have to focus on the basics
On February 04 2012 13:03 Efficient wrote: Before I get my hopes up that any of this will change in HOTS, does anyone know how difficult these changes would be to implement? We've been told not to expect LAN for the entire production cycle of SC2 because it would be impossible to reconcile with the way they implemented battle.net 2.0 Would there be a similar problem for the other changes the OP pined about?
First of all, that excuse about LAN being too hard to implement is a lame excuse for them saying "We want control, like total and utter reptilian control over everything that happens with our game".
Secondly (if it isn't a lame excuse), if the suggested things are hard to, or hell even can't be, implemented, then they failed with the core design of Bnet 2.0 and there is no hope for Blizzard to redeem themselves.
Last edit: 2012-02-04 17:54:57
Life is like animal porn... It's not for everyone
TheAntZ Bangladesh. February 04 2012 17:58. Posts 5868
Blizzard has become such a fucking joke. Their priorities are no longer on providing a good gameplay experience. Many of these changes could be done quickly and easily if the efforts of the entire bnet team were applied...and it has been more than a year. If anyone thinks blizzard gives the tiniest fuck, they are delusional.
On February 04 2012 17:20 HowardRoark wrote: I find it amusing that the UI of this new game is worse than BW from 11 years ago.
lo it isnt
lo you're wrong. The disadvantages of bnet 2.0 far outweigh its few good points. The only thing thats truly, objectively an improvement is the matchmaking system. But even then, you cant choose to ladder only vs specific races, which you could in bnet 1. Even starting on this topic gets me so goddamn angry.
Last edit: 2012-02-04 18:00:58
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Honeybadger United States. February 04 2012 17:59. Posts 734
On February 04 2012 10:03 KingPwny wrote: That's actually quite a good point. Blizz is becoming greedier and greedier, and although that's what companies do genereally, it seems that I at least am not the right kind of customer for this sorta deal. Steam has improved vastly over the years, and the difference between Bnet stagnating and just becoming really awful to deal with, must be profits . Blizz dont' wanna go out of their way of making a polished product and instead make a follow up to a major title and just kinda expect ppl to buy it? I think their business plans are very short term, and if this is the direction for blizz, my money is going to Valve / other more customer based games. Let's see if this even gets heard by any of the blizz team, or if we just get more excuses. Blizz are you listening to the small ppl????
It's not even blizzard's fault, I'd say. I couldn't, in all honesty, say that Dustin Browder and David Kim want to do anything other than give the players what they want. I can't believe that Dustin Browder wouldn't think that the automated tourney or LAN option would be anything but awesome. The problem is the corporate shift (no wingnuttery here, this is documented and supported by economists) has gone from customer satisfaction based to shareholder based. Shareholders are short-sighted, fickle, and have no interest in the company beyond the financial gain it brings. Vivendi gobbled up activision, who bought blizzard, purely because they wanted the company with the name that lays the golden eggs.
So we now have a great company, blizzard, filled with great people who love games, with a fucking shock collar around its neck that is the shareholders. This short-sighted attitude has forced blizzard to be completely unable to invest the time into improving the UI that they would like, because time is money, and time that isn't spent on expansions, MMO's, or sequels, a-la things that stupid shareholders know will bring them profits, is too risky for them to allow. We all know and love the Blizzard of olden days, where customer satisfaction was what they wanted. They made games how they wanted them, supported them heavily, and had, for a time, a sterling reputation for being one of, if not the best game developer on earth. And now we see that beautiful company being strapped to an egg-laying machine and slowly choked to death by the shareholders.
Valve has managed to avoid it because they have no parent company, and just don't engage in such shiesty corporate practices. They are, as far as I can tell, adhering to the method that actually works, i.e. long term financial gains. "Long term" is a word missing from the current corporate air. They don't struggle like blizz because they don't have vivendi/activision looming over their shoulders, so they can do things the way I'm sure blizz would like to go back to doing. It's that "long term" idea that has shown time and time again to be successful. If you don't rip off your customers, and treat them decently, they will return. People know when they're being ripped off. Valve constantly takes our money, like any good corporation should, but does it in ways that benefit us directly, like offering steep sales all the time, doing wish-list sales and the like. They support everything they make, they make sure the thriving communities they make (gmod, counter strike, team fortress, the thousands of havok and source mods) have all the tools that the devs themselves have, because there can only be good that comes from collaboration. Counter strike was a mod. Valve loved it so much they bought it, hired the developers, and continue to support it to this day, even working on a sequel.
I just can't speak highly enough of Valve. Their headquarters is 20 minutes away from my house, and I jokingly sent Gabe a christmas card in 2010. He mailed me back a handwritten thank you. Class act.
Anybody who had his entire source engine leaked to pirates early, and comes back with this kind of statement, has earned my respect:
"We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem," he said. "If a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable."
This is how human nature works, and he's just told us how to make pirates redundant.
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
Honeybadger United States. February 04 2012 18:00. Posts 734
First of all, that excuse about LAN being too hard to implement is a lame excuse for them saying "We want control, like total and utter reptilian control over everything that happens with our game".
Since when were reptiles control freaks?
My bearded dragon is pretty laid back...
On February 04 2012 17:58 TheAntZ wrote: Blizzard has become such a fucking joke. Their priorities are no longer on providing a good gameplay experience. Many of these changes could be done quickly and easily if the efforts of the entire bnet team were applied...and it has been more than a year. If anyone thinks blizzard gives the tiniest fuck, they are delusional.
God it makes me smile when I see my more clever moments in people's sigs. Almost makes up for all the other stupid garbage I say.
That said, cut Blizzard some slack. They aren't an independent corporation anymore. Dustin Browder is just a guy like you and I. He doesn't drive a gold plated ferrari, he just loves games. And he's shown time and time again that he's always working to try and sneak what the players want in under the noses of the shareholders. Blizzard has honestly done an exemplary job of maintaining their fastidious dedication to quality of their products, and they ARE supporting the game in ways that represent what the players want/need from a balance standpoint. It's just the parts that require corporate approval, like a costly redesign of bnet, that are harder. Bnet offers 100% control to blizzard, and therefore vivendi and its shareholders. Changing that seems like an impossible task, don't'cha think?
Last edit: 2012-02-04 18:04:18
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
Bayyne United States. February 04 2012 18:02. Posts 1566
Agree 100%. I especially love the tournament idea, where you can "find tournament" similar to how you would "find match". It could be based off your MMR so that all participants would be of relatively equal skill.
Shit I can go on forever with ideas that would make the experience so much more fun.
Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
ceaRshaf Romania. February 04 2012 18:28. Posts 4884
Also I remember when I would enter BNET and people were discussing stuff and I was dragged in the conversation and made friends etc. Now....I see a loading circle.
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
maybenexttime Poland. February 04 2012 18:31. Posts 3082
On February 04 2012 04:53 arterian wrote: Blizzard has no incentive to do any of this. Nobody is not buying or leaving the game because of these features.
Not necessarily true, two friends of mine are holding out on the game, one until cross-region play, the other until proper clan/chat/community/tournament support.
I'm not buying SC2 for those reasons too, as well as for the lack of LAN.
TheAntZ Bangladesh. February 04 2012 18:34. Posts 5868
That said, cut Blizzard some slack. They aren't an independent corporation anymore. Dustin Browder is just a guy like you and I. He doesn't drive a gold plated ferrari, he just loves games. And he's shown time and time again that he's always working to try and sneak what the players want in under the noses of the shareholders. Blizzard has honestly done an exemplary job of maintaining their fastidious dedication to quality of their products, and they ARE supporting the game in ways that represent what the players want/need from a balance standpoint. It's just the parts that require corporate approval, like a costly redesign of bnet, that are harder. Bnet offers 100% control to blizzard, and therefore vivendi and its shareholders. Changing that seems like an impossible task, don't'cha think?
Honestly, I didnt believe that dustin browder is in charge of all the decisions. I suppose I was venting my anger at an abstract evil corporation, rather than any person in particular. Its frustrating that such simple fixes are denied to the players, whatever the reason
Last edit: 2012-02-04 18:35:52
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
killa_robot Canada. February 04 2012 18:37. Posts 982
On February 04 2012 02:26 Rkie wrote: Alright, I decided to attempt creating the thread on the US forums. I don't feel like I did it any justice though.
EDIT: Oh well, someone beat me to it. Having two threads on the topic won't do any harm, will it?
I really wouldn't bother appealing to them on battle.net. To be blunt it's full of idiots and casual players, neither of whom know what they actually want.
Last edit: 2012-02-04 18:38:00
Sadistx Zimbabwe. February 04 2012 18:39. Posts 5471
Wholeheartedly agree. They spent minimal effort on sc2 after it came out. Their half-assed attempts at balancing for all skill levels brought as much bad as they did good and the interface is still a mess.
But they can get away with it, because it's not a subscription based game, and since people dont have to keep paying to play, they have no incentive to make things as they should be in 2012 interface wise.
Oh, top 200 is still broken.
I've lost all hope and interest in this game, except for casual tourny play until HOTS comes out. Custom maps are a sad joke compared to what WC3 offered.
At times like these, I wish Valve made starcraft 2.
nucLeaRTV Romania. February 04 2012 18:42. Posts 709
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