On February 10 2012 03:15 paschl wrote: so should i also be banned because i rebound the sidebuttons on my mouse to 6/7 and use them for hotkeys? all i did was change it in my logitech drivers.
I also do this with one of my two sidebutton and i think its different. The side button is convenient in that it rests in an easy to press spot but it is also essentially a 1:1 bind and is actually harder to rapidly actuate (i use it to select banes and infestor groups rapidly but i never use it to double tap. Its not too much different than rebinding tilde for more convenience.
However the mouse click button to a wheel is completely different as 1 button "press/roll" translates to 8-9 clicks with my mouse and way more with a free spinning wheel.
It helps base sniping with IT's and spamming them mid battle much easier but im not sure how helpfull it is (i havent used it in a real game yet but i plan to)
However i am terrified of snipe, It is possible to transfuse people sniping brood unless they have sick fast fingers and this increases the skill for the terran clicking quikly and the zerg transfusing fast enough. However with the scroll wheel and enough ghosts it feel like im the man with the golden gun doing 1 shot kills. Sniping is SOO easy with this that every time i offrace i feel compelled to make ghosts lol.
Curious to see how this plays out, as it has some nice uses it seems like unit splitting and im sure im missing others so i dont immediately want it gone but it seems like it has heavy potential to break snipe and possibly IT spam.
I also just though about it, I feel like you could put control groups on the mousewheel as well as the keyboard. That way if you have to harass groups its easy to pop between two location by scrolling up for one and down for the other.
Edit: Even for protoss warping in units quickly. Seems like this has so much potential and its not necessarily a bad thing if some things get easier as it can open more room for other innovation. However if it gets too easy then its not necesarrily good [Example using the wheel for 2 control groups for precision harass = good whereas the fact that i can snipe faster than a pro gamer = bad in my opinion]
This will either be universally accepted, bringing the game to a higher level, or be the first trick to be banned in competitive SC2 (like allied mines in BW).
Metal's not the Devil's work, it's magical and rad!
falafelnr1 Sweden. February 10 2012 06:57. Posts 432
On February 10 2012 00:57 Magus.421 wrote: All the stuff in this movie is already possible. It just take a little more time to do and a little more "skill" to target units.
The difference is that without this trick, it gives to a casual gamer an APM about 500+...
... Try it yourself, sniping a mass of little unit is not such easy without this trick.
On February 10 2012 09:45 Doso wrote: You can't ban it, since you cannot control it online.
yes you can because it would be obvious when someone used it since its 50 times faster than doing it manually.... you would be able to see it instantly and if not an admin could watch the replay and see it for sure
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
sluggaslamoo Australia. February 10 2012 13:09. Posts 3498
On February 10 2012 06:16 Latham wrote: This will either be universally accepted, bringing the game to a higher level, or be the first trick to be banned in competitive SC2 (like allied mines in BW).
What about banning viking flower, spinning buildings, burrowed neural and void-ray phasing.
I found out about this over half year ago. Then I went to talk to team liquid admins if they think it's ok to use in tournaments. As it wasn't a macro, just a hot key change they were fine with it.
The reason I'm not using this is because it was very dependant on your hardware. Because I was spamming actions so fast it actually kept listening to those actions seconds after I stopped. So basically it was way too buggy on my computer. so the buggy part was basically like this. i spammed out snipes like crazy, it worked for about 2 seconds and then all my ghosts went on small cooldown with the snipe, then it started selecting the ultralisks for example instead, and it just kept spam clicking the standard left click select command on whatever i hovered over for a few seconds. so i was giving orders
about 3-4 times quicker than my computer could actually handle in starcraft 2, so scrolling for 1 second gave commands that kept going for about 2-3 more seconds after i stopped scrolling
However in the replay on cytos computer (he had stronger computer than mine) after he fixed this too, he managed to reach up to about 3000~ apm in the replay spamming infested terrans xD
Last edit: 2012-02-10 14:00:07
Devolved United States. February 10 2012 14:05. Posts 2646
Seeing that Morrow has tried it makes me wonder if any pros actually use this? I know I've seen Thorzain do some insanely fast snipes before, but have no idea if he uses this method.
Flash, the last BW bonjwa and first bonjwa of SC2.
acrimoneyius United States. February 10 2012 14:27. Posts 973
On February 10 2012 06:16 Latham wrote: This will either be universally accepted, bringing the game to a higher level, or be the first trick to be banned in competitive SC2 (like allied mines in BW).
What about banning viking flower, spinning buildings, burrowed neural and void-ray phasing.
just tried it on a custom map. Doesn't seem very good imo. You can't use it without shift, and then if you do use shift your ghosts run up to try to snipe the units, leaving them really vulnerable.
terran
Azzur Australia. February 10 2012 16:40. Posts 5852
On February 10 2012 13:44 MorroW wrote: I found out about this over half year ago. Then I went to talk to team liquid admins if they think it's ok to use in tournaments. As it wasn't a macro, just a hot key change they were fine with it.
The reason I'm not using this is because it was very dependant on your hardware. Because I was spamming actions so fast it actually kept listening to those actions seconds after I stopped. So basically it was way too buggy on my computer. so the buggy part was basically like this. i spammed out snipes like crazy, it worked for about 2 seconds and then all my ghosts went on small cooldown with the snipe, then it started selecting the ultralisks for example instead, and it just kept spam clicking the standard left click select command on whatever i hovered over for a few seconds. so i was giving orders
about 3-4 times quicker than my computer could actually handle in starcraft 2, so scrolling for 1 second gave commands that kept going for about 2-3 more seconds after i stopped scrolling
However in the replay on cytos computer (he had stronger computer than mine) after he fixed this too, he managed to reach up to about 3000~ apm in the replay spamming infested terrans xD
More proof that this technique is 100% tournament legal. With all this weight of evidence, I don't know why people are even arguing otherwise.
I've read alot of posts claiming that SC2 lacks micro tricks and then I see posts saying some new micro technique should be banned. Granted, these posts could be made by 2 different groups of ppl...
[AG]AggressionGaming Canada. February 10 2012 17:04. Posts 43
On February 06 2012 14:00 BicBootyBoi wrote: Wonder if this could be used for other things only thing i can think of would be warping in units
I'm sure someone else has replied to you, but yes. I tested this with almost all the units, scroll wheel is effective with warping in, however if you try and switch out the unit of the warp in it can cause you to select units and not actually warp anything in. Generally this is only useful if you have 8+ gates. I found it to be mildly effective with blink micro, when you are facing your opponent, you want to scroll your mouse starting closest to his army, and selecting units to blink away from his army. another way of saying it, mouse close to his army before blink, mouse behind your army after blink. Use upward scroll when facing people beneath you, downward scroll when facing people above you. Although the blink micro is very sloppy. this is super effective with ravens. Every spell it has basically autocasts like a mad man. Turrets now become infinitely easier to throw down and HSM goes almost at once although can be slightly overzealous. Obviously Snipe and IT and Feedback. It is mildy effective with forcefields but due to accuracy issues its up to the user. Transfuse is 100x more effective, Making banelings is 10000000x more effective, if you have to make 50 banelings usually it takes about 10 seconds to make while holding down the baneling key. By using the scroll you can make 50 in like 3-4 seconds (depending on you) Making units from hatcheries is still faster from holding down the key. But making drones is faster by scrolling and less straneous on your keyboard hand (for long term play), basically you just hover over the larva and scroll up and down. overlord drops more effective, same with any drops really. For marine micro against units that aren't banelings, if you have medivacs you can select the medivacs and have them heal the entire army evenly instead of just X at a time. I believe it also makes archons faster but I didn't actually make a comparison. Graviton beam is ridiculously more effective, a little less accurate but it makes large groups of pheonix more viable now, instead of having 1 guy pick up and 29 shoot. Mule call downs with lots of full OC is super effective, especially on vertical mineral patches as the motion of scrolling can let you start from the top patch down to the bottom or bottom up (with accuracy of course). Corruption is more or less effective, because it stacks without effect it also can waste energy with less accuracy. Pinging the map in custom games is 100X more effective. I can't think of anything more I did to test it out ^^
Team Channel: AG Team Owner: AGGhost 223 Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/agghost
Sylfyre Australia. February 10 2012 17:07. Posts 219
I really don't think there would be much wrong with doing this in tournaments, but that said, worst case scenario Blizzard will just patch it so mouse scrolls have to be longer to click or something like that...but definitely a very very cool trick XD
AveSharia United States. February 10 2012 18:08. Posts 60
The reason I'm not using this is because it was very dependant on your hardware. Because I was spamming actions so fast it actually kept listening to those actions seconds after I stopped. So basically it was way too buggy on my computer. so the buggy part was basically like this. i spammed out snipes like crazy, it worked for about 2 seconds and then all my ghosts went on small cooldown with the snipe, then it started selecting the ultralisks for example instead, and it just kept spam clicking the standard left click select command on whatever i hovered over for a few seconds. so i was giving orders
about 3-4 times quicker than my computer could actually handle in starcraft 2, so scrolling for 1 second gave commands that kept going for about 2-3 more seconds after i stopped scrolling
...
This could actually be a driver issue. When I tried to set my Deathadder mouse wheel to click (using the stock Razer software), I ran into the issue above, even on an i7 2600k/gtx 570 box. However, replacing the wheel with clicks using an autohotkey script, I have no lag.
I'm not sure whether the third party software people keep referencing is any better than either of these options.
And (regarding the rest of the thread,) FWIW, all the mousewheel does is make snipe work the way it should, without having to jump through hoops like this. If your ghosts have the energy, and you can click on 6 targets, there's no reason it should take 20 seconds worth of mindless spam-clicking micro to spend the energy. If shift-click wasn't broken for ghosts, it would basically result in the same exact DPS as mousewheel/keyboard clicking.*
/rant
*And none of that means that ghosts are, or aren't, balanced. It might be the case that, if the mechanics of using a ghost weren't wholly broken, 25 energy is too cheap for snipe. I guess we'll find out.
EDIT: Well I guess we got the answer, because Blizzard is nerfing snipe down to 25 damage +25 psi damage. That's a pretty rough nerf to an ability that was pretty tough to use before the technique discussed in this thread. I won't feel so bad for using it now.
Last edit: 2012-02-11 03:47:20
NeWeNiyaLord Norway. February 10 2012 19:39. Posts 2464
On February 06 2012 14:40 Kloster wrote: Works on ghost for snipe aswell. Goes quick to kill broodlords.
Indeed
Mother of god....
I'm a protoss player but fucking hell.....that is really gross o.O
BiGbiRd, Top Protoss in Australia/SEA - currently teamless Played in the Australian/Oceania WCS finals, Check it out!!!! :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh6cXM9EOmg
On February 10 2012 13:44 MorroW wrote: I found out about this over half year ago. Then I went to talk to team liquid admins if they think it's ok to use in tournaments. As it wasn't a macro, just a hot key change they were fine with it.
The reason I'm not using this is because it was very dependant on your hardware. Because I was spamming actions so fast it actually kept listening to those actions seconds after I stopped. So basically it was way too buggy on my computer. so the buggy part was basically like this. i spammed out snipes like crazy, it worked for about 2 seconds and then all my ghosts went on small cooldown with the snipe, then it started selecting the ultralisks for example instead, and it just kept spam clicking the standard left click select command on whatever i hovered over for a few seconds. so i was giving orders
about 3-4 times quicker than my computer could actually handle in starcraft 2, so scrolling for 1 second gave commands that kept going for about 2-3 more seconds after i stopped scrolling
However in the replay on cytos computer (he had stronger computer than mine) after he fixed this too, he managed to reach up to about 3000~ apm in the replay spamming infested terrans xD
It is dependant of your software, in fact. If you use the Razer Deathadder software, for example, you've got this issue. If you use X-Mouse instead, you don't have this behaviour, but you must use shift + spam and not just holding snipe + spam, cuz it's deselecting your unit and select the target (a way to counter that is too set the keyboard repitition over 1 key each 33ms, but it needs to "crack" windows 7).
