| mtwow789 February 07 2012 08:01. Posts 67 | Profile # |
Link to Jaehoon vs. Sin Youtube
Jaehoon's Neo-Bulldog toss
This is based on Jaehoon vs. SIN game on SPL 1/28/12
This is my first guide so please go easy on me.
This is one of those all-in type strategy that makes PvT more interesting.
What this strategy is for:
1. It is aimed to kill FE terran, who builds CC and barrack at his nat.
2. It is not meant for factory build so scout early.
3. It probably doesn't work well against siege expand.
Best thing about this strategy is that its initial start is exactly same as standard BO.
Thus, you can transition to this strategy if you see terran doing FE.
This strategy should be one of your playing cards when playing against terran.
If you have scouted terran close to you (vertical or horizontal on 4v4 map)and you suspect FE, then you can transition to this strategy from basic BO.)
If opponent is located diagonally and/or blocking the entrance, scrap this strategy and proceed to other ones.
Opening is standard one gate-core opening:
8pylon
10gate (send this probe out for scouting)
11gas
14core
15pylon
continue probe production
build goon as soon as gateway finishes
range upgrade (start hunting scouting scv)
(after denying the scouting scv, move goons to terran's nat to hit bunker)
Add pylon
Build robotics near gateways when gas becomes 200.
Pull one probe from gas.
(It is okay for SCV to scout robotics because it confuses him with reaver BO. But it needs to be killed soon to prevent scouting 3gateways)
Build two more gateways as robotics is finished.
Probe production now has lesser priority.
It is important that probe could cause population block so running all gateway is more important than making probes.
Build total of 4 goons.
Build a pylon.
Build a shuttle when 4th goon is in production.
Build 3 zealots and have rally points for 3 gateways and robotics same location.
If done correctly, shuttle should be coming out when all three zealots are popping out.
4th goon should be hitting the bunker by now. (and a tank hitting goons)
Change gateway rally points near terran's cliff where elevator will be performed.
Do not get shuttle shot downed by turrets.
Resume probe production and build a pylon.
Keep building goons.
Drop the 3 zealots on terran main near cliff and do elevator for the initial 4 goons.
Have zealots hunt for tanks but do not go down all the way to nat.
Micro fight now! Just keep goons from getting contained by scv. Aim for tank first as 4 marines are joke against 4 goons + 3 zealot.
Use shift move for shuttle to automatically go back to cliff to pickup newly made goons.
If all the tanks are dead and still have 2~3 goons, then, game is over.
Continue pumping from 3gates. You can add observatory.
If the rush was defended, take nat and third simulnateously to take advantage of damages you did.
Have the shuttle survive so you can more easily deal with terran's push later.
Summary,
1. This has similar concept as the bulldog toss but this one goes straight for terran's defenceless main.
2. Timing is much faster than 6goon bulldog toss so it is more difficult to defend for FE terran if not scouted.
3. Since goon range is not delayed, terran spends significant money on bunker repair.
This forces terran to build tank first so no need to worry about mines for a while.
4. Makes game more interesting by preventing typical 20+ min macro-fest PvT.
Last edit: 2012-02-07 13:28:06 |
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 Xiphos Canada. February 07 2012 09:06. Posts 5732 | Profile Blog # |
| Nice knowing people taking the initiative of analysing the game and writting the layout of the strategy. Will rec to new Tosses accross the universe! |
| | 2012 - Remember of the Fallen Heroes and Command the way to your victory. |
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| Miwyfe England. February 07 2012 09:17. Posts 77 | Profile # | |
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| littlefighter February 07 2012 09:56. Posts 43 | Profile # |
| The rush can be faster if the robotics is proxied somewhat near terran's base. |
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 l10f  United States. February 07 2012 11:56. Posts 3190 | Profile Blog # |
On February 07 2012 09:56 littlefighter wrote:
The rush can be faster if the robotics is proxied somewhat near terran's base.
Not necessarily as the zealots will then have to walk to the base, and zealots move pretty slow, but yeah, could be better to proxy. |
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| Release United States. February 07 2012 12:39. Posts 3973 | Profile Blog # |
Ofc, flash will develop some sort of counter, as always.
What happened to just 2 gate range and EZ kill on scvs? (jangbi vs baby, fantasy vs free) |
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| endy China. February 07 2012 13:01. Posts 6127 | Profile Blog # |
I missed that game, so I had no idea what was that Jaehoon build.
Your guide seems well done.
A question though : If the terran scouts that very early robotics, isn't he going to turret super quickly ? What if he just sieges 2 tanks closely to his main command center so SCVs can repair them quickly/or be a wall against zealots, and a turret to prevent zealot drop on them, is it still possible to do a lot of damage ? |
| | ★ SK Telecom T1 ★ MSL Forever ★ SonicBJ is my hero ★ Kim Taek Yong ♥ I took a photo with Bisu before it was mainstream | |
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| Release United States. February 07 2012 13:21. Posts 3973 | Profile Blog # |
On February 07 2012 13:01 endy wrote:
I missed that game, so I had no idea what was that Jaehoon build.
Your guide seems well done.
A question though : If the terran scouts that very early robotics, isn't he going to turret super quickly ? What if he just sieges 2 tanks closely to his main command center so SCVs can repair them quickly/or be a wall against zealots, and a turret to prevent zealot drop on them, is it still possible to do a lot of damage ?
Turrets that soon i think would be a little bit of overkill and waste of econ.
What sin did, the wraith, is a more appropriate response. The wraith can fly around a sieged tank, and damage/kill shuttle bulldoging. Even if the tank were to go down, there would be no way to reinforce the 3 zealots which would easily be taken care of by a tank and repair. The bunker would take care of goons at the front.
Sin delayed his wraith too long; the starport was up but not flashing. |
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| mtwow789 February 07 2012 13:41. Posts 67 | Profile # |
On February 07 2012 13:21 Release wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 13:01 endy wrote:
I missed that game, so I had no idea what was that Jaehoon build.
Your guide seems well done.
A question though : If the terran scouts that very early robotics, isn't he going to turret super quickly ? What if he just sieges 2 tanks closely to his main command center so SCVs can repair them quickly/or be a wall against zealots, and a turret to prevent zealot drop on them, is it still possible to do a lot of damage ?
Turrets that soon i think would be a little bit of overkill and waste of econ. What sin did, the wraith, is a more appropriate response. The wraith can fly around a sieged tank, and damage/kill shuttle bulldoging. Even if the tank were to go down, there would be no way to reinforce the 3 zealots which would easily be taken care of by a tank and repair. The bunker would take care of goons at the front. Sin delayed his wraith too long; the starport was up but not flashing.
Setting more than 1 turret will be overburden for terran. Also few turrets will be wasteful because, all the shuttle need is small clearance to do elevator, it doesn't need to roam around the terran's main. Just do elevator somewhere out of range of turret. It is impossible to place turrets all around the main. Preferably, first elevator should happen near nat choke, because you want to drop 3 zealots on top of the first tank. But, if that tank is guarded by turrets, then just back off and do elevator elsewhere. Gather 3zealots +4goons and attack, 2 sieged tanks won't hurt much, because 3 zealots will be absorbing the damage while goons take out tanks.
Getting wraith is not recommended because that is for countering reaver play. If terran was expecting reaver play, the wraith can't come soon enough because this is faster than reaver+shuttle.
I think one counter for this is getting more marines to shoot down the shuttle. Terran just needs quick reaction to bring scv to protect tanks. But since toss can choose the battle ground, it is really difficult for terran to defend this.Last edit: 2012-02-07 13:42:58 |
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| Zariel Australia. February 07 2012 14:39. Posts 958 | Profile Blog # |
Starport is auto lose.
Here are 2 things I find the terran needs to do to defend this.
1) Fast second factory. This is to pump vultures to deal with zealots. (it's the priority here)
2) Few extra marines from barracks
You'd pull SCVs as necessary anyway, but the goal is to not let them take control over your factories. Honestly, I dont know how your going to move the tank up your ramp if that zealot manages to block it unless you reacted very quickly. However, some abusive shit would be to float your rax above your tank lol.
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| tryummm February 07 2012 16:10. Posts 762 | Profile # |
The build Jaehoon used will only work against a Bunker CC and it won't work against an FD. Also, hon_sin's response to the build was absolutely terrible since he didn't produce a Wraith.
Also, using this build will not improve your skill level or your ability to PvT. It will merely give you cheap wins where neither player learns anything. |
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| Taekwon United States. February 07 2012 16:19. Posts 7971 | Profile # |
Wow I missed the first 2 sets of Stars and T8.Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
Jaehoon's execution was brilliant and art!
It's mind boggling that hon didn't start a second fac when he even had the luck to be able to scout hoon putting two more gates...
Excellent guide. In fact, I think if the attack fails but you see terran attempting to put down another fac (3) and/or rotating shop, going for mines or siege, you could follow up with reaver Alternatively if he macros tank and turret around main, DT abuse while nat goes down. Last edit: 2012-02-07 16:29:19 |
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| endy China. February 07 2012 16:22. Posts 6127 | Profile Blog # |
On February 07 2012 16:10 tryummm wrote:
The build Jaehoon used will only work against a Bunker CC and it won't work against an FD.
I think OP was pretty explicit about that. :
On February 07 2012 08:01 mtwow789 wrote:
What this strategy is for:
1. It is aimed to kill FE terran, who builds CC and barrack at his nat.
2. It is not meant for factory build so scout early.
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| | ★ SK Telecom T1 ★ MSL Forever ★ SonicBJ is my hero ★ Kim Taek Yong ♥ I took a photo with Bisu before it was mainstream | |
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| Piste Finland. February 07 2012 17:15. Posts 4708 | Profile Blog # | |
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| Raii Philippines. February 07 2012 17:37. Posts 192 | Profile Blog # |
Pretty micro intensive, but I'll give this a shot. 
Nice analysis on the timings though, I would have thought that by the time 3zeals + 4 goons are out the terran would have 3 tanks + vulture + rines. Guess I was wrong :/ |
| | Interesting comeback. How long did it take you make one? |
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| sabas123 Netherlands. February 08 2012 04:56. Posts 1172 | Profile # |
| ^^ can't wait to use this on ladder |
| | The harder it becomes, the more you have to focus on the basics |
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| Bill Murray United States. February 08 2012 05:05. Posts 7057 | Profile Blog # |
this is NOT a new build
furthermore, it is better to slip a zealot in before the round of 3 |
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| pyrogenetix China. February 08 2012 18:34. Posts 5047 | Profile Blog # |
On February 08 2012 05:05 Bill Murray wrote:
this is NOT a new build
furthermore, it is better to slip a zealot in before the round of 3
Why? For mine clearing? |
| | Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer. |
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| evilfatsh1t Korea (South). February 08 2012 22:50. Posts 855 | Profile # |
On February 08 2012 18:34 pyrogenetix wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 05:05 Bill Murray wrote:
this is NOT a new build
furthermore, it is better to slip a zealot in before the round of 3
Why? For mine clearing?
for 4 zealots
not sure how this is gonna work but gate core pylon zealot shouldnt leave you strapped for minerals imo, and you get a full shuttle of zealots to work with |
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| FlaShFTW United States. February 09 2012 08:36. Posts 4962 | Profile Blog # |
| finally something that will counter terran FE... |
| | Never Surrender. Never GG. Always Fighting. BW4LYF. Woo Jung Ho Never Forget. |
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