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[G]Marauder/Hellion All-in TvZ

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy 1 2 3 4 All
 
 DoctorFunk   February 11 2012 05:29. Posts 160
Profile # 
Hello Teamliquid

DoctorFunk here with another more brief and brutal TvZ all-in: The Marauder/Hellion all-in. This is nothing new, nothing revolutionary, and been around literally forever. I decided to make a guide on it for two reasons:
Reason One : It's an effective all-in, and I didn't see any guides on it here.
Reason Two : If you've been on those internets today, you may have noticed that late-game TvZ is getting a significant nerf. To my interpretation, this is Blizzard's invitation to recklessly all-in and avoid late game TvZ. If that's what floats your boat, this guide may interest you.

Also, it's generally viable at all levels.

Ouch
[image loading]
I have another guide that involves battlecruisers here
if interested.


The Idea
+ Show Spoiler +

The Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +

Engagement
+ Show Spoiler +

Counters
+ Show Spoiler +

Replays

+ Show Spoiler +

Conclusion
+ Show Spoiler +

Last edit: 2012-02-12 06:14:30
Old Post

 
 Eljee   United States. February 11 2012 05:39. Posts 27
Profile # 
Well written. As a heavy macro zerg, I don't look forward to seeing this on ladder.
Know thyself, motherfucker.
Old Post

 
 blackberry_   February 11 2012 06:02. Posts 114
Profile # 
About how many scvs do you leave behind in base to continue constant rauder/hellion production?
Last edit: 2012-02-11 06:03:17
Live your life.
Old Post

 
 DoctorFunk   February 11 2012 06:06. Posts 160
Profile # 

On February 11 2012 06:02 blackberry_ wrote:
About how many scvs do you leave behind in base to continue constant rauder/hellion production?

good question. I'm sure that my execution is not exactly optimal, but I typically just box about half of my scvs and bring them with my push. I could run a couple of tests vs AI and figure out an optimal number and put it in the guide.

Short answer: a little less than half, but this may not be optimal.
Old Post

 
 JDub   United States. February 11 2012 06:09. Posts 902
Profile # 
I like that you are honest in your guide, rather than saying "Unleash the aggression in TvZ!" without calling it an all-in (a la Tang). I did want to see a build order for this all-in, as I would like to mix it in sometimes on ladder to keep things interesting.

Thanks for the guide bro
Old Post

 
 ArcticRaven   France. February 11 2012 06:18. Posts 1163
Profile # 
Interesting... but it would be nice to have some clues as to how to defend it
[EatThePath] I call assassins as my faction. Please tell me we can all agree that in the version of history, Steppes of War will be Jerusalem.
Old Post

 
 Indrium   United States. February 11 2012 06:38. Posts 2171
Profile # 
Awesome! I tried to make up a BO for this the other day on the ladder and it didn't work, because I'm bad. ^^ Thanks for the help, I'll try this and let you know. :D


Reason Two : If you've been on those internets today, you may have noticed that late-game TvZ is getting a significant nerf. To my interpretation, this is Blizzard's invitation to recklessly all-in and avoid late game TvZ. If that's what floats your boat, this guide may interest you.


LOL
Last edit: 2012-02-11 06:38:37
http://www.twitter.com/indrium | qxc, Bomber, aLive, Flash | Sheth, Ret, Curious, viOlet, Jaedong | Socke, HerO | StarTale, Liquid
Old Post

 
 JDub   United States. February 11 2012 06:51. Posts 902
Profile # 

On February 11 2012 06:18 ArcticRaven wrote:
Interesting... but it would be nice to have some clues as to how to defend it

The OP states that roach/ling is good for defending it. Even just pure roach can be strong, as you can produce a ton of roaches off of 2 base that can just overwhelm the relatively small marauder numbers.
Old Post

 
 Killcani   Sweden. February 11 2012 06:59. Posts 354
Profile # 
mass lings/spines is the best way to defend vs this
Old Post

 
 DoctorFunk   February 11 2012 07:06. Posts 160
Profile # 

On February 11 2012 06:18 ArcticRaven wrote:
Interesting... but it would be nice to have some clues as to how to defend it

See: counters.
Old Post

 
 Wortie   Netherlands. February 11 2012 07:43. Posts 210
Profile # 
Best defense is about 2 spines, 4 queens with 2 transfuses and about 14 lings, with lings in production, the queens are the really keystone because marauders and hellions don't do bonus damage vs them. Queens are also handy vs reapers, hellion all ins and banshees. No need to thank me.
Old Post

 
 iAmJeffReY   United States. February 11 2012 08:04. Posts 3385
Profile # 

On February 11 2012 07:43 Wortie wrote:
Best defense is about 2 spines, 4 queens with 2 transfuses and about 14 lings, with lings in production, the queens are the really keystone because marauders and hellions don't do bonus damage vs them. Queens are also handy vs reapers, hellion all ins and banshees. No need to thank me.

Like I say about every single T all in. It can be stopped by queens, spines, and lings.

Also kind of helps to have creep spread, but with hellions on the map you're going to be fighting from one angle. No effective flanking possible. Blind banes on creep would do wonders.



Show nested quote +




From below --

not even spanishwa style. That's fallen out, IMO, as I see most zergs get gas by at latest 30. But more so the normal timing 15hatch 14/16 pool with an early macro hatch and an 3-4 queens for creep spread. Negates hellion openings, or blocks the damage, so you can spread creep effectively, and move spines up to get more area to flank the mara/hellion army.

I used to do mara/hellion timings, that's what always beat me.
Last edit: 2012-02-11 10:13:09
iAmJeffReY.267 /// http://www.twitch.tv/iamjeffrey_
Old Post

 
 DoctorFunk   February 11 2012 10:05. Posts 160
Profile # 
Yes queens are a great defensive unit, particularly against Terran. Spanishiwa style would fare well against this, although I'm not sure when said style gets ling speed.
Old Post

 
 ipwntbarney   United States. February 11 2012 11:13. Posts 137
Profile # 
Platinum Zerg here. Lately if I scout a reactor hellion opening, I've just been immediately switching into Tang's Roach/Ling all-in, since every other Terran seems to love this opening. Not that I blame them since late game TvZ is pretty sad right now.

Blizzard really needs to give some sort of buff to Terran late game since Infestor/Broodlord is so ridiculous
Old Post

 
 ValhallaDude   United States. February 11 2012 14:30. Posts 22
Profile # 
Great all-in. I had this in my arsenal for a long time but you refined it to be a little more effective. Considering how impossible tvz late game will be and how so few all-ins I actually know. i thought it might be a good idea to refine my all ins and learn some new ones. Thanks

except, I build the tech lab on the rax first instead of making it look like a reactor hellion opening.

I build my first rax with a tech lab and start making marauders asap. I build my second rax and factory at same time. Once they finish, I get addons on them asap. I send my hellions out to make it look like a really delayed hellion opening and try to deny control of xel naga.

my all in though is at their front door at 830 with stim with 12-14 marauders and 12-14 hellions.
shimbal
Old Post

  Spieltor   February 11 2012 14:44. Posts 327Profile Blog # 
here's what I do as zerg vs any hellion push. 4 roaches, send two to attack move all the way to the enemies base. you cannot deny my scout roaches. Now I know you didnt expand and will mass spines. When the attack comes get a surround with roach lings and focus spines to kill the marauders (NOT THE HELLIONS!). the marauders will die asap due to the +armored damage of spines, and leave the hellions to fend for themselves vs roach ling spine.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson
Old Post

 
 tauon   Australia. February 11 2012 15:01. Posts 422
Profile Blog # 
Nice Guide! This sort of build has killed me more than a few times on ladder (

In my experience this build doesn't work as well on maps with closed off naturals like Shattered Temples or Shakuras Plateau. It's fairly easy to trap and surround the hellions with lings in some pocket or corner.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons
Old Post

 
 SovietHammer   United States. February 11 2012 15:05. Posts 166
Profile # 
Thanks for this, I didn't know any good tvz allins besides 11/11.
Old Post

 
 DoctorFunk   February 11 2012 15:33. Posts 160
Profile # 

On February 11 2012 14:44 Spieltor wrote:
here's what I do as zerg vs any hellion push. 4 roaches, send two to attack move all the way to the enemies base. you cannot deny my scout roaches. Now I know you didnt expand and will mass spines. When the attack comes get a surround with roach lings and focus spines to kill the marauders (NOT THE HELLIONS!). the marauders will die asap due to the +armored damage of spines, and leave the hellions to fend for themselves vs roach ling spine.

sounds effective, except that two early scouting roaches won't know whether you expanded a lot. A lot of hellion openers leave the cc in base for a bit due to roach/ling. if you mass spines against a standard reactor hellion expand, or marine hellion elevator, you will end up behind. Otherwise, sounds good---roach openings are pretty solid as long as its not all in and throwing them away.
Old Post

 
 VoirDire   Sweden. February 11 2012 16:10. Posts 1774
Profile # 

On February 11 2012 05:29 DoctorFunk wrote:
The Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +

When do you build your 2nd barracks?
Playing meaningless games are a travesty to competition.
Old Post

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