Music copyright issue. Are streamers immune to it?

(Vote): Just keep the things the way they are. Nobody cares
(Vote): Streamers should share playlist links with the audience but NOT directly stream it
(Vote): Streamers should just leave the stream without music and let the viewer decide.
(Vote): I don't care about the issue, It's not important at all.

Greetings TL community.

I've been kind of wondering for a while now: what about copyrighted music on all the professional SC2 players and tournaments streams? (such as HomeStory cup)

I've got a YouTube channel myself. Whenever you post a video with some relatively known music in it, YouTube instantly flags it as "Copyrighted" content and warns the poster about possible implications of posting music that's not owned by him and requires the user to be careful with such content threatening with removing the content in case it's claimed by the owner.

I'm a huge Starcraft 2 stream consumer. I watch streams of players like Grubby, Stephano, White-ra, Bling, Kas etc.
How is it possible that they constantly stream pretty known music on their streams? What kind of policy does Twitch.tv promotes when it comes to copyrighted content?

I'm really curious to find out the answer since it seems that there's a lot of sensibility now out there regarding copyrighted content (with recent shut down of multiple download services that were providing copyrighted content to the public).

Summing up: is there any kind of control about copyrighted content by Twitch.tv/Justin.tv when it comes to streamers?

EDIT: After some research done on my part and thanks to several posters in this thread (Excalibur as a special mention) the conclusion is that streamers ARE NOT allowed to play copyrighted music on the background.

Copyrighted music
If you play music (especially recorded music), or you are recording music (includes all formats) that is not public domain you are using music under copyright and you need a license to do so!.

Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA). (Twitch.tv is part of it)
Quote: To its most basic form, what this means is, if you choose to show content that you do not have legal distribution rights to, the copyright holder can request for the content to be removed. Note “distribution rights” in that statement. Just because you own a DVD of a movie, doesn’t mean you automatically have the right to show (distribute) it across the Internet.

Link
http://community.justin.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-2116.html

Ramifications
What are the implications of this? Well, as stated by many in this thread, Starcraft 2 streams are relatively small piece of pie therefore content owners probably haven't put their eye here yet. But no doubt, copyrighted material is a serious issue and shouldn't be neglected as it's an important problem nowadays (needless to explain why).

Last edit: 2012-02-13 19:02:19

Who Dares Wins...

dabom88 United States. February 13 2012 09:54. Posts 3083

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I'd like to know this myself.

You should not have to pay to watch the GSL, Proleague, or OSL at a reasonable time. That is not "fine" and it's BS to say otherwise. http://www.youtube.com/user/dabom88

SolidMoose United States. February 13 2012 09:55. Posts 1103

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As far as I know, a lot of streamers use pandora or some other internet radio. There's not really a difference between using it yourself or listening to someone use it. As for anything else, I'm not sure. I know Day9 stopped playing music on his stream except for bands that specifically allowed him to.

WolfintheSheep Canada. February 13 2012 09:57. Posts 1754

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Basic answer: It's probably fair use, but unless you want to spend tens-of-thousands of dollars and five years in court, you'll nod and agree with the Lawyer that sends you a complaint letter.

(By allowed, I mean the players that use Grooveshark and such. If they're broadcasting their own personal music collection, that's a huge no-no)

Last edit: 2012-02-13 09:58:32

Average means I'm better than half of you.

SarkON Russian Federation. February 13 2012 09:57. Posts 117

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On February 13 2012 09:55 SolidMoose wrote:
As far as I know, a lot of streamers use pandora or some other internet radio. There's not really a difference between using it yourself or listening to someone use it. As for anything else, I'm not sure. I know Day9 stopped playing music on his stream except for bands that specifically allowed him to.

You're right, the streamers use online services to play the music. However this only fact doesn't allow them to use that music for their own benefit (earning money) as far as i know. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Who Dares Wins...

feanor1 United States. February 13 2012 09:59. Posts 1820

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There is a difference. Using it yourself means you get enough adds to support the service. Streaming it to thousands mean that artist get less than 1/1000 of what they would earn if everyone listened to their own Pandora. If you think this a problem or not is up to you. Most likely people wouldn't be listening to their music, and I know Destiny has exposed a lot of people to new music, same with a lot of other streamers. This is obviously beneficial for all parties involved.

WolfintheSheep Canada. February 13 2012 09:59. Posts 1754

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Actually, correction to what I said above. It's not allowed, period, because Pandora and Groovesharks expressly prohibit commercial usage and broadcasting.

Average means I'm better than half of you.

Resilient United Kingdom. February 13 2012 10:04. Posts 1184

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There is absolutely nothing legal about it. The only reason streamers are getting away with it is because broadcasting video games with copyrighted content is very small fish compared to the other wars copyright infringement law enforcement is fighting at the moment.

It won't last, and smart people (like Tyler) play their music but don't stream it, leaving the stream empty for you to play your own music instead.

Last edit: 2012-02-13 10:05:52

Inty United States. February 13 2012 10:05. Posts 83

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If you are profiting from the use of someone else's music without their permission and/or compensation then it's copyright infringement. The streamers get paid through commercials so technically they or twitch could get sued/cease and desist order. As to why companies don't act on it yet, I think eventually they will they might just be slow on catching on.

Wroshe Netherlands. February 13 2012 10:07. Posts 1019

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It is not legal in any way shape or form. Whether you use your own MP3's or Pandora/Grooveshark makes no difference at all. Using Grooveshark gives you a license for you to listen to it, not for you to broadcast it to hundreds of viewers.

Only reason we haven't had lawyars up our ass is because ~~we are a small fish to fry but that won't last.~~ Edit: According to FXOBoss the lawyers are starting to wake up. They'll likely go after Twitch and Own3d instead of individual users though.

TLDR: Only run music you have permission to run or if you don't then don't stream said music.

Last edit: 2012-02-13 10:10:06

Diamond United States. February 13 2012 10:07. Posts 9014

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I doubt it will be happening much longer. Most of the people that have realized this like Day9 have already stopped playing copyrighted stuff, I know I even made it a rule for ESV TV only SC music (as our broadcast license allows that).

Check out ESV TV at http://www.esvtv.com ****** TaeJa, he's pretty good.

SarkON Russian Federation. February 13 2012 10:07. Posts 117

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On February 13 2012 10:04 Resilient wrote:
There is absolutely nothing legal about it. The only reason streamers are getting away with it is because broadcasting video games with music is very small fish compared to the other wars copyright infringement law enforcement is fighting at the moment.

It won't last, and smart people (like Tyler) play their music but don't stream it, leaving the stream empty for you to play your own music instead.

The last Home Story cup featured some pretty damn good music (Bob Marley, AC/DC among many others). And IMO they can't be considered "very small fish" since the streams peaked at around 60K viewers.

So, there's no control at all, that's what you're saying?

Don't get me wrong, I love watching streams with awesome music, I just fear for what might happen to them if this is in fact ilegal.

Who Dares Wins...

TotalBiscuit United Kingdom. February 13 2012 10:08. Posts 3199

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It is very much not legal in most countries, but as others have explained it is such a small issue (especially bearing in mind the music is often not a prominent feature of the stream and very much in the background over speech or game sounds) that it has not really come up yet in any major capacity. It very well might however, playing from Grooveshark/Spotify DOES NOT make you immune, you don't have broadcast rights when you sign up to that service, it's for personal use and there are blatant licensing issues at play.

It's a good idea to try and use royalty free music or music you have permission to use on your stream just to be safe.

Host of I Suck at Starcraft 2 and SHOUTcraft - http://www.youtube.com/totalbiscuit

JimmyJRaynor Canada. February 13 2012 10:08. Posts 1625

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if the copyright holder requests you remove their content ( music, video whatever ) then you have to remove it.
if u do not comply then i suspect Justin.tv will do it for you.

it is up to the copyright holder to notify the broadcaster.

most of these channels make such small amounts of cash that no one cares.

http://community.justin.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-2116.html

Will Sundance Digiovanni become the Vince Mcmahon of eSports?

ChemBroTron Germany. February 13 2012 10:10. Posts 150

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Summing up: is there any kind of control about copyrighted content by Twitch.tv/Justin.tv when it comes to streamers?

Yes, there is. That's why Destiny isn't using Twitch anymore.

Edit: Also with SOPA, PIPA, ACTA and so on you will have a very hard time with copyrighted content.

Last edit: 2012-02-13 10:13:07

Diamond United States. February 13 2012 10:11. Posts 9014

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On February 13 2012 10:10 ChemBroTron wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yes, there is. That's why Destiny isn't using Twitch anymore.

Lol not at all. Destiny said he switched for $, and doesn't Destiny stream tons of copyrighted music?

Check out ESV TV at http://www.esvtv.com ****** TaeJa, he's pretty good.

Lord_J

Kenya. February 13 2012 10:11. Posts 1083

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They're not immune to it. For that matter, everyone watching the stream is arguably liable under U.S. law. Also, if they view a copyrighted website, such as teamliquid.net while streaming, they are potentially infringing that copyright as well, as are all their viewers.

No relation to Monsieur J.

Spieltor February 13 2012 10:12. Posts 327

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the music they;re broadcasting is of low quality and mixed with game sounds, therefore it has no fidelity and as such can be considered as not breaching copyright due to it being completely inferior and unusable for other applications.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson

SarkON Russian Federation. February 13 2012 10:12. Posts 117

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Well well, I think soon we might see soundless streams in this case

Which is good, because I'm all in favor of copyright protection.