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| MockHamill Sweden. February 14 2012 06:28. Posts 571 | Profile # |
The reward system in SC2 simply sucks. Both in real life and in computer games you get better experiences the better you become at something. In SC2 even if you are 100% better then you were half a year ago you will still lose 50% of your games. From a psychological point of view that is simply frustrating and in many ways unnatural.
It is no coincidence that games that are much worse (like WOW) but have a better reward system are more popular.
Honestly I think everyone below Masters should have 25% of their ladder matches be against AI players pretending to be people. Giving everyone more wins even if they are "fake" would make laddering more fun. But for this to work the AI would be good enough so you could not be sure if you were playing the AI or not.Last edit: 2012-02-14 06:28:32 |
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| LittleWM February 14 2012 06:28. Posts 13 | Profile # |
| The problem is Blizzard has created a game where, at any moment in time on the ladder, there are really only a few usable strategies. Muta/ling, 1/1/1, FFE in to defensive scout and build counter, etc. It's just not interesting or fun to play against the same thing every game. |
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| fighter2_40 United States. February 14 2012 06:30. Posts 360 | Profile Blog # |
On February 14 2012 06:20 Qxcsgayestfan wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 06:06 tuho12345 wrote:
The reason holding me back from laddering is the match matching system is just too stupid. Can't we just get an even 25% of all MUs? Why do I have to play 10 PvPs in a row, and then 1 Pvt and then 10 PvPs next. Nobody wants the fucking mirror MUs.
You think it's the match making systems fault you only get pvps? Ignorance must be bliss. It's like that because Terrans switched races, or stopped playing. (this was before the ghost announcement) If you've got high masters mechanics, then being Terran is no problem. If you want to play casually but still win games at a level above Gold, you better pick Protoss, or at the very least Zerg.
Subtle Terran T_T.
No, imbalance is not why 1v1 is losing interest.
Also, to address mirror matchups... People like what they are good at. If someone doesn't like mirror matchups, it's because it's their worst matchup. (Except maybe tvt where it gets very tedious if you play tank wars.)
On February 14 2012 06:28 LittleWM wrote:
The problem is Blizzard has created a game where, at any moment in time on the ladder, there are really only a few usable strategies. Muta/ling, 1/1/1, FFE in to defensive scout and build counter, etc. It's just not interesting or fun to play against the same thing every game.
So wrong. You are limited by your beliefs that there is only one way to do something. Why does the metagame constantly change? It's because there are new ways of playing the game that people haven't discovered yet. There are so many viable builds out there. In fact, if your mechanics are up to par, you can improvise builds off the fly provided that you scout your opponent well to mid masters level. There is no "right way" of playing. Become the standard of the future.Last edit: 2012-02-14 06:33:24 |
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| ZenithM France. February 14 2012 06:31. Posts 8301 | Profile # |
On February 14 2012 06:28 MockHamill wrote:
The reward system in SC2 simply sucks. Both in real life and in computer games you get better experiences the better you become at something. In SC2 even if you are 100% better then you were half a year ago you will still lose 50% of your games. From a psychological point of view that is simply frustrating and in many ways unnatural.
It is no coincidence that games that are much worse (like WOW) but have a better reward system are more popular.
Honestly I think everyone below Masters should have 25% of their ladder matches be against AI players pretending to be people. Giving everyone more wins even if they are "fake" would make laddering more fun. But for this to work the AI would be good enough so you could not be sure if you were playing the AI or not.
I don't know man, if you want more wins just play Protoss.
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah, I just said that hahaha. Just kidding folks. |
| | MarineKing is my way of Terran. |  |
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| Qxcsgayestfan United Kingdom. February 14 2012 06:32. Posts 7 | Profile # |
On February 14 2012 06:30 fighter2_40 wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 06:20 Qxcsgayestfan wrote:
On February 14 2012 06:06 tuho12345 wrote:
The reason holding me back from laddering is the match matching system is just too stupid. Can't we just get an even 25% of all MUs? Why do I have to play 10 PvPs in a row, and then 1 Pvt and then 10 PvPs next. Nobody wants the fucking mirror MUs.
You think it's the match making systems fault you only get pvps? Ignorance must be bliss. It's like that because Terrans switched races, or stopped playing. (this was before the ghost announcement) If you've got high masters mechanics, then being Terran is no problem. If you want to play casually but still win games at a level above Gold, you better pick Protoss, or at the very least Zerg.
Subtle Terran T_T. No, imbalance is not why 1v1 is losing interest. Also, to address mirror matchups... People like what they are good at. If someone doesn't like mirror matchups, it's because it's their worst matchup. (Except maybe tvt where it gets very tedious if you play tank wars.)
It's not imbalanced at the highest level. Maybe Terran's still the strongest race. That's not what I was saying. I was explaining why people on EU/NA are getting so much pvp/zvz.... if you're crap at sc it's easier not to be Terran.
Last edit: 2012-02-14 06:33:35 |
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 Ruscour February 14 2012 06:33. Posts 5116 | Profile Blog # |
| I got Masters and stopped caring. Playing isn't very fun for me. I check in from time to time but my only real aim is to understand the game so I can still watch and analyse at a high level. |
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| Kotreb Croatia. February 14 2012 06:33. Posts 495 | Profile # |
On February 14 2012 06:27 Qxcsgayestfan wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 06:24 tuho12345 wrote:
On February 14 2012 06:20 Qxcsgayestfan wrote:
On February 14 2012 06:06 tuho12345 wrote:
The reason holding me back from laddering is the match matching system is just too stupid. Can't we just get an even 25% of all MUs? Why do I have to play 10 PvPs in a row, and then 1 Pvt and then 10 PvPs next. Nobody wants the fucking mirror MUs.
You think it's the match making systems fault you only get pvps? Ignorance must be bliss. It's like that because Terrans switched races, or stopped playing. (this was before the ghost announcement) If you've got high masters mechanics, then being Terran is no problem. If you want to play casually but still win games at a level above Gold, you better pick Protoss, or at the very least Zerg.
I have two accounts and I hate PvPs so badly that I switch to Terran, now I'm rank #2 on diamond as the ladder is locked right now and play Master usually, and same problems as that I had to play so much TvTs. So your point is? If its not systems' fault then whose?
This isn't true though. Everyone knows Terrans are dissapearing from the ladder. There are plenty of threads knocking around with the stats to prove it. Not in Korea obv, but everywhere else.
Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 05:58 Kotreb wrote:
because i get bored of 7 zvz's in a row, ppl cheesing as fuck (someone mentioned that there is no cheese, just very aggressive play...right, i disagree...), calling me this and that just because i built some unit (this is funny actually, but it's boring) and generally retarded ranking system
edit: oh and maybe primary reason is because i'm just casual sc gamer, not wannabe next bonjwa so i don't put much effort in it...this is just for fun for me
You find me the guy that has too many tvt's.
i actually don't get this a bit... if you're implying that terrans are disappearing from ladder than i would actually be "happy" (i'm not really fan of mirror matchups, at least zvz, maybe the other ones are more fun)... maybe it's personality thing and gaming style... i'm more in favor of macro games and don't really like mirror MUs... |
| | If you don't sin Jesus died for nothing. |  |
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| fighter2_40 United States. February 14 2012 06:37. Posts 360 | Profile Blog # |
[/QUOTE]
It's not imbalanced at the highest level. Maybe Terran's still the strongest race. That's not what I was saying. I was explaining why people on EU/NA are getting so much pvp/zvz.... if you're crap at sc it's easier not to be Terran.
[/QUOTE]
Again complaints that terran is harder than other races. Have you even played all 3 races to a competent level? I encourage all players to spend at least a month laddering as random. It gives you a lot more insight into each race.
Also, assuming that it is harder, ladder matches your mmr so you are 50/50. You'll just keep playing "lower level" toss and zergs to even the difference. |
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| JDub United States. February 14 2012 06:38. Posts 903 | Profile # |
On February 14 2012 06:28 MockHamill wrote:
The reward system in SC2 simply sucks. Both in real life and in computer games you get better experiences the better you become at something. In SC2 even if you are 100% better then you were half a year ago you will still lose 50% of your games. From a psychological point of view that is simply frustrating and in many ways unnatural.
It is no coincidence that games that are much worse (like WOW) but have a better reward system are more popular.
Honestly I think everyone below Masters should have 25% of their ladder matches be against AI players pretending to be people. Giving everyone more wins even if they are "fake" would make laddering more fun. But for this to work the AI would be good enough so you could not be sure if you were playing the AI or not.
I don't agree. In SC2, as you get better, the game becomes more fun to play, at least in my opinion. As your hand speed goes up, and your ability to multi-task goes up, each win feels more meaningful, each game more intense. I love the adrenaline and super focus required to play this game (even just at a mid-master level). Even though when I was working my way from bronze to masters I thought the games were intense the whole time, I now look back on those games and just laugh.
I love laddering though :D |
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| Foogazi United States. February 14 2012 06:39. Posts 215 | Profile # |
| I started laddering seriously around christmas as P (IN GOLD LEAGUE), switched to T in mid january- now im mid-high masters T (On NA). I'm really happy with my race choice, even if theres going to be nerfs- as I enjoy the terran playstyle and don't let balance affect my attitude towards the game. Plus It means less mirror matchups. And everyone knows how bad TvT is. |
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| VPFaith United States. February 14 2012 06:40. Posts 261 | Profile # |
On February 14 2012 06:37 fighter2_40 wrote:
It's not imbalanced at the highest level. Maybe Terran's still the strongest race. That's not what I was saying. I was explaining why people on EU/NA are getting so much pvp/zvz.... if you're crap at sc it's easier not to be Terran.
[/QUOTE]
Again complaints that terran is harder than other races. Have you even played all 3 races to a competent level? I encourage all players to spend at least a month laddering as random. It gives you a lot more insight into each race.
Also, assuming that it is harder, ladder matches your mmr so you are 50/50. You'll just keep playing "lower level" toss and zergs to even the difference.[/QUOTE]
Protoss is the easiest. I went 32-0 using protoss on SEA, got in Grandmasters league haha <3 |
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| tuho12345 February 14 2012 06:40. Posts 4247 | Profile Blog # |
On February 14 2012 06:27 Qxcsgayestfan wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 06:24 tuho12345 wrote:
On February 14 2012 06:20 Qxcsgayestfan wrote:
On February 14 2012 06:06 tuho12345 wrote:
The reason holding me back from laddering is the match matching system is just too stupid. Can't we just get an even 25% of all MUs? Why do I have to play 10 PvPs in a row, and then 1 Pvt and then 10 PvPs next. Nobody wants the fucking mirror MUs.
You think it's the match making systems fault you only get pvps? Ignorance must be bliss. It's like that because Terrans switched races, or stopped playing. (this was before the ghost announcement) If you've got high masters mechanics, then being Terran is no problem. If you want to play casually but still win games at a level above Gold, you better pick Protoss, or at the very least Zerg.
I have two accounts and I hate PvPs so badly that I switch to Terran, now I'm rank #2 on diamond as the ladder is locked right now and play Master usually, and same problems as that I had to play so much TvTs. So your point is? If its not systems' fault then whose?
This isn't true though. Everyone knows Terrans are dissapearing from the ladder. There are plenty of threads knocking around with the stats to prove it. Not in Korea obv, but everywhere else.
Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 05:58 Kotreb wrote:
because i get bored of 7 zvz's in a row, ppl cheesing as fuck (someone mentioned that there is no cheese, just very aggressive play...right, i disagree...), calling me this and that just because i built some unit (this is funny actually, but it's boring) and generally retarded ranking system
edit: oh and maybe primary reason is because i'm just casual sc gamer, not wannabe next bonjwa so i don't put much effort in it...this is just for fun for me
You find me the guy that has too many tvt's.
Less Terrans doesn't mean there's no Terran left.
Ignorance must be bliss.?
Also Terrans have to play against eachother, that mean no terran for other MUs is a good explanation isn't it?
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| FinalForm United States. February 14 2012 06:41. Posts 402 | Profile # |
If you play customs with your practice partners instead, you'll find that they have a bias towards playing macro games.
It's typical NA culture to frown upon cheese and 2 base timings, but playing with someone that agrees with your mindset isn't going to make you better.
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| cvt United States. February 14 2012 06:41. Posts 187 | Profile # |
| A lot of my friends quit playing because the game was too demanding and stressful. They would rather play LoL vs other brain dead people or fly around stormwind. After all, these are video games and they are supposed to be fun. Competitive ladder environments aren't fun for everyone |
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| elKaDor Sweden. February 14 2012 06:43. Posts 345 | Profile # |
from my 10years of bw playing i know around 8(?) people out of lets say 100 that still plays sc2.
and out of those 8 i think its around 2 or 3 who actually enjoys the game, the other just hang around plays some custom with eachother cuz of old times.
I quit the game 5 months ago, and i played maybe 500 games since release and my perspective is mostly the UI that destroys the game.
In BW i could sit for hours in chatchannels or watch replays with friends, blizzard completely ruined that for SC2, and i know WC3 also had very good UI but didnt really play it so i have no experience of it.
I really hate the gamelobbys in sc2, feels like crap, also i think the game is too hard to read, warpgates/reactors/larvainject makes it to hard to really read the opponent, like (aight i saw 2 stalkers, np) but then he had 6 wg which i didnt see and a hidden pylon) kind of thing.
Nah i didnt enjoy SC2 at all, the reason i played those games was because i really really really wanted to enjoy SC2, but 5 months ago i just gave up on the game, no way i could enjoy it |
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| Zorgaz Sweden. February 14 2012 06:45. Posts 2715 | Profile # |
On February 14 2012 06:37 fighter2_40 wrote:
Again complaints that terran is harder than other races. Have you even played all 3 races to a competent level? I encourage all players to spend at least a month laddering as random. It gives you a lot more insight into each race.
Also, assuming that it is harder, ladder matches your mmr so you are 50/50. You'll just keep playing "lower level" toss and zergs to even the difference
Have you actually done this yourself? Otherwise it is kinda hypocritical off you. I have and I did see some differences, guess it depends on alot of factors though. Last edit: 2012-02-14 06:47:03 |
| | Furthermore, I think the Collosi should be removed! (Zorgaz -Terran/AbrA-Random) Guineapigs <3 |  |
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| biology]major United States. February 14 2012 06:45. Posts 613 | Profile # |
On February 14 2012 06:28 MockHamill wrote:
The reward system in SC2 simply sucks. Both in real life and in computer games you get better experiences the better you become at something. In SC2 even if you are 100% better then you were half a year ago you will still lose 50% of your games. From a psychological point of view that is simply frustrating and in many ways unnatural.
It is no coincidence that games that are much worse (like WOW) but have a better reward system are more popular.
Honestly I think everyone below Masters should have 25% of their ladder matches be against AI players pretending to be people. Giving everyone more wins even if they are "fake" would make laddering more fun. But for this to work the AI would be good enough so you could not be sure if you were playing the AI or not.
LOL
srsly thats one of the worst ideas.
RTS in general are not about "fun" once you learn the game. As soon as your objective becomes to win, the fun is no longer in the game itself, but the fact that you win. Even though blizzard has tried so hard to make casuals happy with shiny badges and hiding losses, people still have ladder anxiety and stress. Its unavoidable, thats the nature of the game itself (a competetive sport). Last edit: 2012-02-14 06:48:55 |
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| latan February 14 2012 06:46. Posts 724 | Profile # |
| it's probably natural for the amount of player to decline over time, wait 'til Heart of the Swarm comes out. |
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| ceaRshaf Romania. February 14 2012 06:46. Posts 4884 | Profile # |
On February 14 2012 06:43 elKaDor wrote:
from my 10years of bw playing i know around 8(?) people out of lets say 100 that still plays sc2.
and out of those 8 i think its around 2 or 3 who actually enjoys the game, the other just hang around plays some custom with eachother cuz of old times.
I quit the game 5 months ago, and i played maybe 500 games since release and my perspective is mostly the UI that destroys the game.
In BW i could sit for hours in chatchannels or watch replays with friends, blizzard completely ruined that for SC2, and i know WC3 also had very good UI but didnt really play it so i have no experience of it.
I really hate the gamelobbys in sc2, feels like crap, also i think the game is too hard to read, warpgates/reactors/larvainject makes it to hard to really read the opponent, like (aight i saw 2 stalkers, np) but then he had 6 wg which i didnt see and a hidden pylon) kind of thing.
Nah i didnt enjoy SC2 at all, the reason i played those games was because i really really really wanted to enjoy SC2, but 5 months ago i just gave up on the game, no way i could enjoy it
This post speaks so much truth. The thing is Bnet 2.0 is not engaging you at all. You really have to want to play, you are not dragged in at all. That is really bad for the game.
I now play only 2v2 with a team friend. I watch a LOT of sc2 though. Just don't play that much cause it's a lot more fun to follow Esports. But this, is sad. |
| | Mess with the best, die like the rest. |  |
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, it's stressful! Guess that is what makes people stop it.
