| IPA United States. February 15 2012 05:47. Posts 2775 | Profile # |
On February 15 2012 03:15 Existor wrote:
1v1 is boring and repititive. Team games contains more action and fun
This is a strange opinion my friend. I would reverse this. |
| | To die having made something more equal to the centuries than muscle and bone is mostly to shed weakness. |  |
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| Adron Netherlands. February 15 2012 05:51. Posts 688 | Profile # |
Other, i have no internet at home  ( |
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| Existor Russian Federation. February 15 2012 05:56. Posts 3125 | Profile # |
Yes, always, it'a hard to agree with my opinion after 1-2k of ladder games in 1v1. But you must agree, that there can be more differences in gameplay in RA3, C&C3 (those 2 great RTS games are ruined by developer) other great games, but not in SC2, where start and BO always same in specific match-up. Currently there are 1-2 most effective build orders for each race, and that makes game a bit boring many times. Many games are similar, maybe with some nice action or fast-paced moments, but not that offen.
In team games there are some small random factor, that makes game more fun.
Look at SC2;WoL. ZvZ - roach battles. Is it interesting to see? Mutalisk? Queens and spores and roaches win again. ultralisks? Roaches outnumber them! Etc.
Games now are divided to 2 groups long macro or fast-paced rush-harass-pressure_to_cancel_expand-games. There mus tbe more variety in gameplay, more strategies, and every must be weak and strong in some terms. Currently there are not that much strategies. |
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| TheRealPaciFist United States. February 15 2012 06:02. Posts 895 | Profile Blog # |
I would love to have the option to play against a specific race. Sometimes I just want to practice my TvP, other times TvZ, other times TvT. It depends on the day and the builds I'm interested in. But currently I have to join the shattered temple custom map and if I see the wrong race, exit the game, log back in, get back into custom games and join again... and hope that I see the right race this time.
And I know Blizzard wants to encourage or incentivize people to ladder, and I urge them to find more such incentives. However, laddering will always be stressful, because it will always be competitive. That's why we have team games and FFA's (and why I wish we had 2v2v2v2's as well)... but I think they screwed up.
Right now we have a ladder with these features:
> a hidden MMR that determines who you get matched against, so you have approximately 50% win rate
> an outside indicator of your MMR through what league you're in, and a rough indicator through your points
The idea behind this? Not showing your exact MMR is supposed to make laddering less stressful, but the outside indicators retains the competitive aspect. But again I say: competition will always make the game more stressful than it is casual, so trying to compromise achieves nothing. Instead, they should have just had two ladders, one competitive and one casual:
Ladder #1
> an MMR that determines who you get matched against
> outside indicator of your MMR through leagues, points, or even the MMR itself not hidden
Ladder #2
> a hidden MMR that determines who you get matched against (not the same MMR as Ladder #1's MMR)
> no outside indicator of the MMR at all
Ladder #2 would still be able to retain an approximate 50% win rate, but people wouldn't care how well they played on it... and they wouldn't have to wade through the bullshit that comes with joining custom games. |
| | Second favorite strategy game of all time: Starcraft. First: Go (aka Wei Qi, Paduk, or Igo) |
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| YouControlBad Poland. February 15 2012 06:39. Posts 23 | Profile # |
| I feel its just because other games are better then sc2 and people tend to notice sc2 is pretty damn boring so they lose their interest into it. Blizzard just failed at this hope diablo 3 will be better. Its my personal opinion. Its not about the ladder but the game overall. |
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| [N3O]r3d33m3r Germany. February 15 2012 06:48. Posts 515 | Profile Blog # |
one aspect not voiced yet is the lack of a good post-game screen/aftermath.
the statistics are just terrible and after you've won a game you are welcoomed by a tiny window saying "VICTORY".
i dunno, make it more fancy looking |
| | TheStC made so many top players look average in his replays. Voted for him. On April 18 2011 23:21 Durp wrote: Yes oGsTheSTC is in this tounament; god that guy is so Gosu. TheStC was by the the scariest player in the beta, at least from the terrans. |  |
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| EtherealDeath United States. February 15 2012 06:51. Posts 8158 | Profile Blog # |
On February 15 2012 05:56 Existor wrote:
Yes, always, it'a hard to agree with my opinion after 1-2k of ladder games in 1v1. But you must agree, that there can be more differences in gameplay in RA3, C&C3 (those 2 great RTS games are ruined by developer) other great games, but not in SC2, where start and BO always same in specific match-up. Currently there are 1-2 most effective build orders for each race, and that makes game a bit boring many times. Many games are similar, maybe with some nice action or fast-paced moments, but not that offen.
In team games there are some small random factor, that makes game more fun.
Look at SC2;WoL. ZvZ - roach battles. Is it interesting to see? Mutalisk? Queens and spores and roaches win again. ultralisks? Roaches outnumber them! Etc.
Games now are divided to 2 groups long macro or fast-paced rush-harass-pressure_to_cancel_expand-games. There mus tbe more variety in gameplay, more strategies, and every must be weak and strong in some terms. Currently there are not that much strategies.
lol I have so many builds each with many subtle variations, some of which ate reactive and some of which force shit down the other guy. Variation does tend to take more skill in execution in order to work than the average casual has though. |
| | SC2: Kasu.767 ////////// Dota 2: 1a2a3a | |
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| bigdbag February 15 2012 06:55. Posts 3 | Profile # |
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that other types of games, especially MMO's and DOTA's are able to bring new content to the core game on a regular basis. Whether they are new characters, in-game items, or downloadable content, there is something NEW to try out and play.
The fact of the matter is that in an RTS, there isn't much that you can change on a regular basis. This is why I think suggestions for a faster rotating map pool would be good for the SC2 scene.
I would even go as far as to suggest that we have a 2 ladder system like The RealPacifist suggested above me, but on the casual ladder you would have many more units available to you, from single player, as well as constantly introducing new units and abilities from the community custom scene. It would also be a great arena for Blizzard to see if they can implement/tweak/remove abilities in the competitive ladder, based on what they see being done on this casual ladder.
I would personally be incredibly excited to play on a casual server when I'm frustrated or on a losing streak, where I can build hydraroaches while my enemy comes at me with firebats, all of this done on a match-making basis based loosely on your skill-level. |
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 Spieltor February 15 2012 07:04. Posts 327 | Profile Blog # |
On February 13 2012 23:05 Silentenigma wrote:
Because it is not fun to play against abusers BM ers alliners.
Last time I played 99 percent of my games were 1 or 2 base allins(was mid masters).It is almost impossible to play a standard game...I would much rather to play custom games against similar skilled people.
thats stupid. Why does "standard game" = macro 200/200 game. Go back to NR20 games in brood war. On the other hand, people all in ALL THE TIME ON KOREA SERVER.
People play to win, and choose a strategy they believe will best achieve that.
if you learn to defend those all ins, YOU win. |
| | "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson |
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| Mr Showtime United States. February 15 2012 07:09. Posts 1350 | Profile # |
| The casual players make up a majority of the player count. For the most part, they don't care about the 7 reasons listed (even though it's a decent list to describe reasons for lost "hardcore" players). They've just moved on to the next game like they always do. Come HotS, they'll come back and leave again after a enough time has passed. |
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| RageCommodore Germany. February 15 2012 07:10. Posts 823 | Profile # |
| Welp, I don't have as much time for ladder as I used to. Also, the way the ladder works can be very depressing at times ._. |
| | BW: sGs.sTaRfaLL SC2: NN_Commodore | fan of: Darkforce, DBS, KrasS, Delphi, Last, BoguS | Mass BC/ Ghost ftw! | song of the week: Imagine Dragons - Radioactive |  |
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| Mr Showtime United States. February 15 2012 07:10. Posts 1350 | Profile # |
On February 15 2012 05:47 IPA wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:15 Existor wrote:
1v1 is boring and repititive. Team games contains more action and fun
This is a strange opinion my friend. I would reverse this.
No. That's why it's an opinion. I disagree like you do, but that's why it's his opinion and neither mine nor yours. |
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| DreamChaser February 15 2012 07:12. Posts 1632 | Profile Blog # |
On February 15 2012 05:47 IPA wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 03:15 Existor wrote:
1v1 is boring and repititive. Team games contains more action and fun
This is a strange opinion my friend. I would reverse this.
Nah i agree, in team games i can do some absurd fuckin builds like Nuke rushes, or go pure infestor. Whats amazing is i might actually win! on top of that playing with people you know is wayyy more fun than playing by yourself and having others look over your shoulder
Meanwhile in 1v1 if i tried to do some nuke rush (Main toss) besides not knowing terran very well i would die very quickly to some protoss 2 base collosus timing. |
| | Plays against every MU with nexus first. | |
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| Daray February 15 2012 07:16. Posts 2878 | Profile # |
On February 15 2012 07:04 Spieltor wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 23:05 Silentenigma wrote:
Because it is not fun to play against abusers BM ers alliners.
Last time I played 99 percent of my games were 1 or 2 base allins(was mid masters).It is almost impossible to play a standard game...I would much rather to play custom games against similar skilled people.
thats stupid. Why does "standard game" = macro 200/200 game. Go back to NR20 games in brood war. On the other hand, people all in ALL THE TIME ON KOREA SERVER. People play to win, and choose a strategy they believe will best achieve that. if you learn to defend those all ins, YOU win.
This is stupid. People can't have wrong opinions on this... you can't tell them 'No you're wrong do this and you'll have fun (or WIN in this case??)!'
People play to have fun and if they're not having fun they'll stop playing and apparently the majority has stopped playing 1v1 atleast.
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| thurst0n United States. February 15 2012 07:19. Posts 573 | Profile Blog # |
thought the certainty factor goes way down the longer you're inactive. Mmr remains sigma or w.e does. Meaning they're mmr will change more dramatically after an upset. Idk tho.
I am platinum s5 haven't played s6 yet. But have only been playing diamonds the last 15+ games. Winning more than I lose still.
I was talking to my friend about this. I feel like overall the system works but I feel like there are diamonds that do this too. I think the system is overall too sticky. My solution was to have a minimum # of games per seasons. maybe 25? Or force 3-5 games at start of each season to get placed again.
As others have said its just a pic and #. The system will match |
| | P.S. I'm nub. If you'd like you can follow me @xthurst but its not worth it ill be honest | |
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| KicKDoG Sweden. February 15 2012 07:21. Posts 764 | Profile # |
| Well people starts to play more tournaments and more custom play with team members! It's not as high as it used to be. More goes to korean server too so. |
| | http://www.twitter.com/KicKDoG_LoL baylife plox? |
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| OPman United States. February 15 2012 07:49. Posts 123 | Profile # |
#6 Is pretty stupid imo. If people don't play this game because they don't know what they did wrong, then they simply don't care enough. I'm not sure what you want blizzard to do about that. Imagine a pop-up like "He's bunker rushing you dumb-ass, pull workers!"
Replays are good enough if you really want to go back and look at what you did wrong. Plus there are places like TL and people like Day[9] to help you also. |
| | Ph'nglui Mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. |
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| Shiladie Canada. February 15 2012 08:30. Posts 1618 | Profile Blog # |
Playing ladder has turned into "Spot the bullshit cheese/all-in" if you do and counter it, you win, if you don't, you lose, GG!
I stopped because the game isn't actually fun to play when it's so massively dominated by that kind of play (I'm mid to high diamond) |
| | The evolution of SC2: T or P comes up with something abusive and Z goes "I gotta deal with THIS shit too?" |  |
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| Shiladie Canada. February 15 2012 08:42. Posts 1618 | Profile Blog # |
On February 15 2012 07:16 Daray wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 07:04 Spieltor wrote:
On February 13 2012 23:05 Silentenigma wrote:
Because it is not fun to play against abusers BM ers alliners.
Last time I played 99 percent of my games were 1 or 2 base allins(was mid masters).It is almost impossible to play a standard game...I would much rather to play custom games against similar skilled people.
thats stupid. Why does "standard game" = macro 200/200 game. Go back to NR20 games in brood war. On the other hand, people all in ALL THE TIME ON KOREA SERVER. People play to win, and choose a strategy they believe will best achieve that. if you learn to defend those all ins, YOU win.
This is stupid. People can't have wrong opinions on this... you can't tell them 'No you're wrong do this and you'll have fun (or WIN in this case??)!' People play to have fun and if they're not having fun they'll stop playing and apparently the majority has stopped playing 1v1 atleast.
Exactly, I'm not playing to win, I'm playing to have fun. I tried playing to win for a while, did cheese builds for a while and won 75% of the time. Hell, there's the guy that documented his way to GM by doing nothing but 6-pool all-ins (with workers pulled and everything) so it's not an issue of winning.
I'll come back once the game isn't entirely dominated by these kind of strats, whether through patches/xpacs or meta-game shifts. |
| | The evolution of SC2: T or P comes up with something abusive and Z goes "I gotta deal with THIS shit too?" | |
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| Micket United Kingdom. February 15 2012 08:50. Posts 2163 | Profile # |
| The game is not fun for the casual. Casuals make up the majority of the player pool. The shit custom game system also means they can't have fun there either. |
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