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| EchelonTee United States. February 17 2012 13:19. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
if you're going to pick at me for nuances, I'm totally down to point out exactly why what you're saying is baseless. Not really what I wanted to do this game, but whatever.
On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote:
You are getting defensive. I just wanted you to clarify a post. Now, how is your attitude so flip-floppy?
Three things:
1st: I clarified my post, pretty clearly. I said "because I wanted you to post". Clear, no? You are the one who did not want to drop it. Stating that I am being defensive is hypocritical, because you are getting all jazzed up on me asking you to post. My earlier post said "if sloosh doesnt post, I presume hes in scum QT". Since you posted, that means I don't presume that you're in scum QT. AKA, I am NOT calling you out in anyway. So why would you post this?
On February 17 2012 12:20 slOosh wrote:
No, because it was baseless.
Instead, I tried to figure out what motive a townie might have by saying this in that manner.
Calling out people 2~3 hours into the 48 hour day doesn't really make sense does it?
Why keep on pressing this? you're being needlessly defensive, and soft accusing me. Mafia like soft accusing, it takes away the need for accountability.
2nd: Saying that I am flip-floppy implies that I am switching between at least 2 opinions, multiple times. What is the evidence you use to state that I am doing this?
On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote:
Gumshoe does his weird poll thing, you ask if he could write his posts more legibly, and then take a very friendly stance of making sure no one is offended, asking for accountability etc.
Now I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how you shift your attitude so quickly.
I assume the :D in the next quote indicates playfulness. Then just a few minutes later you lash out against me, clearly telling me what not to do - "don't twist my words"
You don't even use my posts on gumshoe, you just mention it in passing. What? If you were trying to imply that I went from mean (gumshoe) > nice (gumshoe) > nice (you) > mean (you), and that this is a sign of attitude shifting that is utterly wrong. I am still completely suspicious of gumshoe; I just don't want to insult him and make him feel bad. I could easily do that, as I did to Timeaisis last game as scum, but I'm not in the mood to be manipulatory. Me stating that I don't want to be an asshole is irrelevant to my view point on gumshoe, my attitude has not shifted.
Next, you presume that my disposition towards gumshoe and towards you should be the same, or else I am being suspicious. That makes no sense at all. Towards gumshoe, I am suspicious. Towards you, I was indifferent. Why do I have to act with the same attitude to different people?
However, your subsequent posting shifted me to not liking you, because you wouldn't drop something insignificant. Thus, yes, *gasp* my attitude shifted ONCE from indifferent to suspicious, on you. Gee, changing opinions is so dastardly and scummy! For clarification: the last sentence was ironic.
3rd. Lastly, you make some argument about how townie and scum only think in certain ways:
On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote:And that last line:
"there are motives for both townie and scum to do so."
That may be true but a townie would never think like that.
If they did something that might be misconstrued as scummy, they would clarify themselves.
They wouldn't say both mafia and town could have acted in the way they did.
If a townie did something that might be construed as scummy, they would clarify themselves, so that people don't get suspicious of them.
If a scum did something that might be construed as scummy, they would clarify themselves, so that people don't get suspicious of them.
Woah, Batman, town and scum can do the same things for the same reasons??? What is this???
slOosh, to presume that only townies try to look townie is foolish. You are using WIFOM.
Finally, if you're truly suspicious of me, vote me. You already FoS'd me. You're trying to get someone else to start it, so that you don't have to claim responsibility when the bandwagon mislynches, but you're trying to put in the impetus so someone else will do the work for you. I know how scum works. shove off. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| slOosh February 17 2012 13:21. Posts 1909 | Profile # |
On February 17 2012 13:12 gumshoe wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote:You are getting defensive. I just wanted you to clarify a post. Now, how is your attitude so flip-floppy?
On February 17 2012 11:48 EchelonTee wrote:
On February 17 2012 11:43 gumshoe wrote:
On February 17 2012 11:36 EchelonTee wrote:
On February 17 2012 11:33 gumshoe wrote:
On February 17 2012 11:11 EchelonTee wrote:
Gumshoe I think you're mafia. for that poll.
Why in tarnations would you think that? Seriously though the purpose of the random ass poll was just to see if the mafia made one big decision or not, unfortunately less that 12 people out of the 15 voted so I cant say that they took any part in this vote, nor can I say that they didn't, what I can tell is that its highly likely that at some point around when town began to treat the poll as the sorta joke it seemed, and all voted the mafia option AGAINST my wishes(as I pretty much predicted), the mafia probably hoped on the happy train of cynicism to discredit the pole and not stand out. So this pole has been somewhat useful in showing that at least two or maybe even all four of the mafia are being active early on. Wether that information is useful or not you can decide for yourself, but you cant blame me for trying ) :
I would like it if you divided your walls of text into paragraphs; it took me a few to fathom your post, when I realized you're not saying anything.
K very simple To comment on this whole epic clash of wills between prolific posters, the poll was a goofy plan, I knew that, but if it worked it could have been useful and if it didn't It's illfated nature provided the perfect platform for a mafia players critique. A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so. wanted to see if any voting patterns formed within the poll It was like a lynch simulator But less than 12 people have voted in the pole therefore any conjecture regarding any mafia patterns is at the moment useless. Because it's possible that none of the mafia voted given that town thinks the poll is stupid and just posted on it randomly or trolingly. Discredit it until theres twelve votes or just discredit it period if you so please. That is all.
I'm not trying to offend you, or needlessly discredit you; your post was just hard to understand, and I did not quite understand the purpose of what you did. post however you please. as a random aside: Mafia gets heated, so if I'm acting like an asshole just let me know and I'll tone back.
On February 17 2012 12:15 EchelonTee wrote:
did you feel threatened? :D
On February 17 2012 12:21 EchelonTee wrote:
On February 17 2012 12:20 slOosh wrote:
No, because it was baseless.
Instead, I tried to figure out what motive a townie might have by saying this in that manner.
Calling out people 2~3 hours into the 48 hour day doesn't really make sense does it?
Did I accuse you of being Mafia? don't twist my words. there a motives for both townie and scum to do so.
Gumshoe does his weird poll thing, you ask if he could write his posts more legibly, and then take a very friendly stance of making sure no one is offended, asking for accountability etc. Now I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is how you shift your attitude so quickly. I assume the :D in the next quote indicates playfulness. Then just a few minutes later you lash out against me, clearly telling me what not to do - "don't twist my words"And that last line: "there are motives for both townie and scum to do so."That may be true but a townie would never think like that. If they did something that might be misconstrued as scummy, they would clarify themselves. They wouldn't say both mafia and town could have acted in the way they did. I was fine with your first post. But now you've earned my suspicion. ##FOS: EchelonTee
T To comment on this whole epic clash of wills between prolific posters, the poll was a goofy plan, I knew that, but if it worked it could have been useful and if it didn't It's illfated nature could provide the perfect platform for a mafia players critique. A mafia player wants to seem useful while not actually being so, attacking something that seems blatantly useless is a perfect way for a mafia to look like he's contributing while not actually doing so. That said I doubt that Ech would take this huge and obvious of a risk this early on(as he did) if he was maf, we still have tons of time, if Ech backs off we shall know if he's trying to hide after taking so much heat and therefore he's probably worried about an investigation or a lynch.
His only route is to keep being an aggressive poster and hopefully dig his way out of the ditch with some phoenix wright quality analysis. I also really don't like Ech's controversial move of casting doubt on a specific player for not yet posting when there are several players still lurking. I don't care if you wanted to draw him out you could've just asked for his opinion on something.
We can't make those assumptions. Mafia play a game of duplicity - they will do whatever is necessary to avoid suspicion, even if that means being in the spotlight with all the attention on them.
I would try to avoid guessing (and then announcing) how people will act as
1) People have different playstyles and so you can have two townies who act very differently (but with pro-town motives)
2) If they are mafia they can just do whatever you don't do and cast confusion upon the town.
Talking about how they will act or not is not a solid way of finding them.
It is otherwise known as WIFOM and is something that should be avoided. |
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| MidnightGladius China. February 17 2012 13:23. Posts 848 | Profile Blog # |
gumshoe's posting seems pretty odd so far. I can imagine him not knowing that non-players could still vote in his poll, but the fact that he thinks that he can compare voting patterns in an anonymous, arbitrary poll with actual vote pattern analysis, coupled with his rather silly explanation for why the poll didn't work (lurking town players trolling en masse with mafia joining the "wagon"? Really?), doesn't seem right. Even if you don't think that there's anything substantive to discuss, there's no reason to fabricate something that isn't likely to help us at all.
However, I don't really get the feeling that he's scum, just new. I don't want to make the same mistake I made last game, when I was certain that questionable Day 1 play by itself meant scum.
EchelonTee, you shouldn't be so upset 
If you claim that your "he's posting the scum QT" threat was a joke, then you're expecting us to let you get away with saying anything you want, as long as you say that you're not being serious. Secondly, you claim that you never accused sl00sh of being mafia, but there's no denying that he would be posting in the scum QT if and only if he were truly mafia. You're not looking too friendly at the moment, and I have to wonder what might be on your mind.
You've had some experience, so I expect better pro-town play from you. And I will be watching. |
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| EchelonTee United States. February 17 2012 13:25. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
On February 17 2012 12:40 slOosh wrote:
And that last line:
"there are motives for both townie and scum to do so."
That may be true but a townie would never think like that.
If they did something that might be misconstrued as scummy, they would clarify themselves.
They wouldn't say both mafia and town could have acted in the way they did.
Speculating on how townie and scum may or may not act.
On February 17 2012 13:21 slOosh wrote:I would try to avoid guessing (and then announcing) how people will act as 1) People have different playstyles and so you can have two townies who act very differently (but with pro-town motives) 2) If they are mafia they can just do whatever you don't do and cast confusion upon the town. Talking about how they will act or not is not a solid way of finding them. It is otherwise known as WIFOM and is something that should be avoided.
Advising that you shouldn't guess how people will act, and that WIFOM is bad.
Explain this inconsistency. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| DoYouHas United States. February 17 2012 13:31. Posts 682 | Profile # |
ET, instead of jumping on every little inconsistency you find in order to go blow for blow with sl0osh, why not just make a note of it and present a more complete case later. Bickering can be useful, but I fear this is going to turn into Toast vs prplz.
sl0osh, I dislike your attack on ET. Pointing out that both town and mafia can have motivation for the same action just looks to me like he is covering his bases so he can't be accused of not considering all the options later. And his calling you out was perfectly founded. You were an active poster in NMM3 who looked towards putting quality in the thread. If you suddenly went lurker on us it wouldn't be a stretch to think that you were organizing the mafia in their qt. |
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| EchelonTee United States. February 17 2012 13:32. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
On February 17 2012 13:23 MidnightGladius wrote:EchelonTee, you shouldn't be so upset
You're right. For some reason, I get a lot more upset when people accuse me of being Mafia when I'm Town, as opposed to when I'm actually Mafia. inb4 he's trying to make it seem like he's town in this game when he's actually not!!
On February 17 2012 13:23 MidnightGladius wrote:
You've had some experience, so I expect better pro-town play from you. And I will be watching.
Indeed, I'm glad that you are. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| gumshoe Canada. February 17 2012 13:36. Posts 784 | Profile Blog # |
Early reports! All very preliminary but hopefully it'll give everyone an idea of where some townies stand and where some lurkers don't.
blae - absent but has an alibi(by alibi I mean he said before game that he would not be especially present day one)
Alderan - Absent no alibi
Ech - present but slightly suspicious ) :
Do you has - present has contributed somewhat(a single post against the word of Ech) no basis for suspicion
manner kiss- has presented himself but has not yet contributed to discussion. No basis for suspicion
steveling - is present has contributed to discussion does not seem suspicious.
track door - has made himself present has contributed somewhat to discussion no reason yet to suspect
midnight- is present has contributed , (is mean to me but rightfully so )  no reason to suspect as of yet
Sloosh - has contributed, acted out only to defend himself, does not seem suspicius
Janaan- is absent no alibi
tk hawakins- is absent no aibi
dimmuKlk- is absent no alibi
zell - is absent no alibi
jaj22 - is present, is also somewhat mean but justifiably so as far as I can tell, his negative tone is striking negative but not yet suspicion worthy.
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| | the password for my swiss bank account is the same as the answer to this riddle " What have I got in my pocket?" |
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| slOosh February 17 2012 13:51. Posts 1909 | Profile # |
On February 17 2012 13:19 EchelonTee wrote:
Why keep on pressing this? you're being needlessly defensive, and soft accusing me. Mafia like soft accusing, it takes away the need for accountability.
I FOSed you. That isn't soft accusing. I'm not voting for you since my goal for town is active discussion by all members. If all I did day 1 was focus on you, then the other 3 mafia will be content in lurking all they want.
Next, you presume that my disposition towards gumshoe and towards you should be the same, or else I am being suspicious. That makes no sense at all. Towards gumshoe, I am suspicious. Towards you, I was indifferent. Why do I have to act with the same attitude to different people?
You are friendly to the guy you are suspicious of and antagonistic to someone you are indifferent to. You have every right to act in which way you like, but doing something like that drew my attention.
Finally, if you're truly suspicious of me, vote me. You already FoS'd me. You're trying to get someone else to start it, so that you don't have to claim responsibility when the bandwagon mislynches, but you're trying to put in the impetus so someone else will do the work for you. I know how scum works. shove off.
Calm down. The worst scenario for town is to have discussion dominated by two townies going at each others throats.
So unless you think I am mafia, I would suggest that we both keep the town's best interest in mind and promote a good atmosphere.
*****
Was typing this up before more people posted. Going to put it up so people understand my stance, but as I say in the last sentence, pursuing this isn't helpful.
Its only 6 hours into the day so we still have plenty of time. Let's not get distracted by this but start getting people to post.
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| slOosh February 17 2012 13:52. Posts 1909 | Profile # |
EBWOP:
"other 3 or 4 mafia will be content lurking"
Emotions got the best of me. Not assuming you are mafia. |
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| TKHawkins United States. February 17 2012 13:56. Posts 102 | Profile # |
Welcome.
First game on this forum. Anyway, I don't think Gumshoes poll is scummy. It's more likely he just thought "he I wonder if this idea would work." Clearly the answer is no and he didn't really think it through. Seems like more of newbie attempt at something more then anything else. I'm sure the obsever quick thread is already LOLing hard at us. I laughed too (and didn't vote since I hadn't known the game had started).
As for the policy on Lurker hunting, it's obviously a bit early to call people lurkers since many people might not even know the game has started yet (though definately not too early to discuss how to handle lurkers). It is best not to go after lurkers right away. The mafia generally aren't going to be completely inactive at the start. Rather, they are going to try to blend in. Scum post a reasonable amount, but don't contribute.
And finally, the Sl0osh vs Ech thing, I do think it's suspicious for Sl0osh to be acting defensive already. |
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| DoYouHas United States. February 17 2012 13:56. Posts 682 | Profile # |
| I want MannerKiss to chime in. Let those opinions fly! Who looks scummy to you and why? |
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| gumshoe Canada. February 17 2012 13:58. Posts 784 | Profile Blog # |
On February 17 2012 13:23 MidnightGladius wrote:gumshoe's posting seems pretty odd so far. I can imagine him not knowing that non-players could still vote in his poll, but the fact that he thinks that he can compare voting patterns in an anonymous, arbitrary poll with actual vote pattern analysis, coupled with his rather silly explanation for why the poll didn't work (lurking town players trolling en masse with mafia joining the "wagon"? Really?), doesn't seem right. Even if you don't think that there's anything substantive to discuss, there's no reason to fabricate something that isn't likely to help us at all. However, I don't really get the feeling that he's scum, just new. I don't want to make the same mistake I made last game, when I was certain that questionable Day 1 play by itself meant scum. EchelonTee, you shouldn't be so upset If you claim that your "he's posting the scum QT" threat was a joke, then you're expecting us to let you get away with saying anything you want, as long as you say that you're not being serious. Secondly, you claim that you never accused sl00sh of being mafia, but there's no denying that he would be posting in the scum QT if and only if he were truly mafia. You're not looking too friendly at the moment, and I have to wonder what might be on your mind. You've had some experience, so I expect better pro-town play from you. And I will be watching.
In an ideal world all town votes town, there are at least 11 town votes, if there are more than 15 votes we just discredit the pole and if there are votes between 12 and 15 we now know mafia probably participated in the vote if only to throw it off, now we can see if all the votes are green which means the mafia is organized right at the start of the game (because this post happened early on) think of it at the very least like a ghost reading, " Is there a spirit of a mafia in this room!" I know it all seems weird but its could be useful for telling how many mafia players are active at the start of the game and only at the start. Look if you think this is a stupid strat consider it dead, there were not 12 to 15 votes so it dosen't matter. Also someone openly said he just trolled my poll T T so some townies did in fact just en masse troll for funsies and who would come into a mafia thread at 10 oclock at night to vote on a poll that has no effect on their lives whatsoever? Also it makes perfect sense that mafia would mock a stupid strat once it was apparent it was stupid.
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| | the password for my swiss bank account is the same as the answer to this riddle " What have I got in my pocket?" |
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| EchelonTee United States. February 17 2012 13:59. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
On February 17 2012 13:51 slOosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
On February 17 2012 13:19 EchelonTee wrote:
Why keep on pressing this? you're being needlessly defensive, and soft accusing me. Mafia like soft accusing, it takes away the need for accountability.
I FOSed you. That isn't soft accusing. I'm not voting for you since my goal for town is active discussion by all members. If all I did day 1 was focus on you, then the other 3 mafia will be content in lurking all they want. 1.
Next, you presume that my disposition towards gumshoe and towards you should be the same, or else I am being suspicious. That makes no sense at all. Towards gumshoe, I am suspicious. Towards you, I was indifferent. Why do I have to act with the same attitude to different people?
You are friendly to the guy you are suspicious of and antagonistic to someone you are indifferent to. You have every right to act in which way you like, but doing something like that drew my attention. 2.
Finally, if you're truly suspicious of me, vote me. You already FoS'd me. You're trying to get someone else to start it, so that you don't have to claim responsibility when the bandwagon mislynches, but you're trying to put in the impetus so someone else will do the work for you. I know how scum works. shove off.
Calm down. The worst scenario for town is to have discussion dominated by two townies going at each others throats. So unless you think I am mafia, I would suggest that we both keep the town's best interest in mind and promote a good atmosphere. 3.***** Was typing this up before more people posted. Going to put it up so people understand my stance, but as I say in the last sentence, pursuing this isn't helpful. Its only 6 hours into the day so we still have plenty of time. Let's not get distracted by this but start getting people to post.
1. There are 4 Mafia, unless you are presuming that either you or I are Mafia. I'm going to assume that this was an honest mistake.
2. My point was that I was not being friendly to gumshoe; I was just trying to be civil. And I was only antagonistic to you after that one post, when I was no longer indifferent.
3. Ok. I responded as such because you FoS'd me twice. that's like, double the suspicion.
on the plus side, since I'm an asshole, people at least had something to talk about. I'm sleeping now, so I hope the euro's pick up the conversation. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| EchelonTee United States. February 17 2012 14:00. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
On February 17 2012 13:52 slOosh wrote:
EBWOP:
"other 3 or 4 mafia will be content lurking"
Emotions got the best of me. Not assuming you are mafia.
you ninja'd me!! |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| MannerKiss United States. February 17 2012 14:01. Posts 2393 | Profile # |
On February 17 2012 13:56 DoYouHas wrote:
I want MannerKiss to chime in. Let those opinions fly! Who looks scummy to you and why?
You for calling me out! |
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| DoYouHas United States. February 17 2012 14:05. Posts 682 | Profile # |
| Then allow me to do it again. Has nothing caught your eye so far? Nothing from gumshoe or ET or sl0osh or any of the other ppl? |
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| TKHawkins United States. February 17 2012 14:18. Posts 102 | Profile # |
| Oh, by the way, how many people here are like me and have jobs that will prevent them from being online while at work? I work a standard 9-5ish shift in EST. I just think we should have a general understanding of everybody's schedule/availability so we know when to expect people to be able to defend accusations or make dramatic reveals/counterclaims. |
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| gumshoe Canada. February 17 2012 14:19. Posts 784 | Profile Blog # |
| Good night everyone, gl with the scum hunting(wake me up if someone accuses me or something) |
| | the password for my swiss bank account is the same as the answer to this riddle " What have I got in my pocket?" |
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| DimmuKlok United States. February 17 2012 15:26. Posts 194 | Profile # |
Hello everyone,
I just finished reading through the thread. I would first like to echo TKHawkins first post about lurking and availability when posting. I've been checking the thread nightly to see if the game had started, and tonight it did. I would not be surprised if the majority of people who haven't posted yet are unaware that the game has started.
Now a little bit about myself... This is my first mafia game, and I'm looking forward to it. I really like gumshoe's idea with the report. I'm sure it's already common place, but I recommend everyone make their own private version of it. It's not hard, and it makes it a lot easier to keep track of everyone. I don't have much to contribute yet when it comes to suspicions. It's still too early. |
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| Janaan United States. February 17 2012 16:09. Posts 320 | Profile # |
Hey all, just got back from a long day of school. Thursdays I always get back pretty late. I'll be reading/analyzing the thread in the next 30 minutes or so to see if I come up with anything.
This is my first game of forum mafia, I've played very casual in-person games, though most of those have little to no actual scum-hunting and just fairly random fingerpointing, so I'd barely count that as real experience. I'm looking forward to a good game! |
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