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Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. | Galactus52 United States. February 18 2012 03:38. Posts 36 | Profile # |
I was very upset when I first read about this. It was my misunderstanding that MLG is charging for all their tournaments. As some people have clarified (and I hope they're not lying) the "championship" tournaments as I've never heard them called are still free. So I guess that means the ones like MLG Orlando/Providence will still be free to watch.
This is some special tourney apparently. I can understand the need to charge I suppose. But at the same time I don’t pay for esports. This is a fun hobby of mine that I've gotten pretty into over the last year and half but it is not a valuable use of my money. I have many a time left streams on for tourneys all day long even if I’m not watching just to give that little bit of extra ad revenue to the tourney in question but that’s as far as I go.
But then again its really more of the price point chosen. $20. I’m sorry; I find that to be insane. I will never pay that amount of money. I attended MLG Orlando last year. I'm pretty sure I paid $25 to actually BE there. That was a life experience. I took a trip, I attended a live tournament, I got to see players that I've been watching from home, there was actual value in what I was spending my money on. I can’t reason spending almost the same amount of money to sit at home.
And whatever “pizza/movie” analogy you want to make to make that price point seem reasonably doesn’t work with me. I don’t go to the movies and I don’t waste my money on takeout food. I also don’t have cable television. I use Netflix. Netflix charges me only $15 a month for unlimited streaming video. You want $20 for a weekend of viewing. I would probably be more inclined to pay $5 for something like this.
TL;DR
I’m too frugal to pay $20, if it was something like $5 maybe then.
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| Noro Canada. February 18 2012 03:41. Posts 776 | Profile # |
Man people are so whiney over this.
MLG is a BUSINESS. Businesses need to make money, they've provided so much free content over the past year, I honestly can't believe that people are actually complaining about this. This community really makes me sad sometimes... |
| | “Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.” |  |
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| Galactus52 United States. February 18 2012 03:50. Posts 36 | Profile # |
On February 18 2012 03:41 Noro wrote:
Man people are so whiney over this.
MLG is a BUSINESS. Businesses need to make money, they've provided so much free content over the past year, I honestly can't believe that people are actually complaining about this. This community really makes me sad sometimes...
And people can choose not to support that business if they don’t find it reasonable. It called being financially responsible. Just as we aren’t entitled to their shit, they aren’t entitled to our money. |
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| Doju United Kingdom. February 18 2012 04:52. Posts 5 | Profile # |
I don't mind the concept of PPV and event have to be sustained, but MLG has promoted/messaged this horribly wrong, as Sundance admitted (It's why I'm a big fan of the guy, he is quite happy to admit to mistakes whilst still telling us why he did it in the first place).
MLG should have announced their price plans for this year a long time ago. If you want to compare the UFC/WWE model, they hype their PPV up for weeks. This got announced less than a week ago, and the event is only next weekend. People make plans for weekend long events weeks or months in advance.
MLG also needs more time to hype this up. Their original intention of having four seasons was to build rivalries/stories. Drama brings people to the events. 2 weeks is nowhere near enough to promote a PPV model to people on the fence.Of course, hindsight is 20:20 vision.
p.s. first post for me, Hi all! |
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| DAVIDKIMchi Canada. February 18 2012 05:05. Posts 1 | Profile # |
| This is BS we the fans help grow this event without us there would be no event and now its PPV this is not fair I hope to see MLG fail hard and I wish bad karma on sundance. Last edit: 2012-02-18 05:40:48 |
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| deo1 United States. February 18 2012 05:12. Posts 195 | Profile # |
| I'm a gold subscriber and bought the pass for this weekend. Then several days later I get an email saying that as a gold subscriber I get a discount on the weekend. I'm sure if I pursued it I could get the amount refunded that I had already purchased, but in the future MLG should really line up their promotions. They are training me to not trust their deals. |
| | Poooooor Protoss. |  |
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| bayside United States. February 18 2012 05:25. Posts 82 | Profile # |
| Im kindve mad... they charge 20$ for a weekend of games when I pay 15$ for 8 weeks of games that are inherently better in every single way, GSL production value easily trumps MLG. The pass is only worth 5$ max.... hell if I want to watch some of the best UFC Fights, I pay a 5$ cover... SC2 isn't of this caliber yet. Also all of the MLG VODs for this tourney are sooo shitty it isnt even funny. I like how they attempted to be friendly by paying all of lan fees etc etc... but I feel MLG is gonna go the same way the CGS went... Last edit: 2012-02-18 05:28:14 |
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| yakitate304 United States. February 18 2012 05:29. Posts 581 | Profile # |
On February 18 2012 05:05 DAVIDKIMchi wrote:
This is BS we the fans help grow this event without us there would be no event and now its PPV this is not fair I hope to see MLG fail hard and I wish bad karma on sundance and his family.
LMAO at "without us there would be no event".
What have you contributed, in man-hours, paid streams, investment, event planning, etc. that makes you say that? Do you do anything other than play SC2 and watch free streams? If not, you had nothing to do with this event. There are enough people who DO contribute monetarily for there to still be an event, albeit one on a smaller scale with less prize money.
A few common, misguided arguments in the thread...
"The NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL has games on every week and I don't have to pay to watch that! - Leagues make the lion's share of their revenue through broadcasting contracts. On top of that, if you want to watch everything (ie. all the hockey games) you have to pay for an additional TV package (ie. NHL Center Ice/GameCenter Online). Comparing an incredibly niche product - SC2 - to one of the major North American sports is about as dumb as it gets. However, if you REALLY want to, you should know that even with multimillion dollar broadcasting contracts, league-wide revenue sharing, season-long attendance, and merchandise (also sometimes impacted by revenue sharing), the average North American professional franchise does not get a significant return on investment. Sure, the Yankees, Red Sox, Patriots, Maple Leafs, Canadiens, and the like turn a good profit, but there are plenty of teams that struggle to even become profitable despite yearly revenues in the 8 or 9 digits.
Is MLG going to fold if they don't improve their revenues? Not likely, but they're also not going to grow at their desired rate. They're attempting to become the absolute leader in the Western e-sports scene and that means taking the next step beyond what Dreamhack, IPL, NASL, IEM, etc. are doing.
The issue I WILL have is if they continue the PPV style and gain significant revenues, but DON'T improve the quality of their product output. Stream quality, production quality, talent acquisitions (player and hosts/casters) and general interactivity of the viewing experience can all be improved upon.
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| | Yaki's Streaming Madness: twitch.tv/YakiSC ||| FRB Grand Tournament Organizer ||| @YakiStarCraft ||| Youtube.com/YakiStarCraft |  |
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| dAPhREAk Nauru. February 18 2012 05:31. Posts 8698 | Profile Blog # |
On February 18 2012 05:05 DAVIDKIMchi wrote:
This is BS we the fans help grow this event without us there would be no event and now its PPV this is not fair I hope to see MLG fail hard and I wish bad karma on sundance and his family.
you are a fool. sundance's family?? |
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 MLG-Kyle United States. February 18 2012 05:40. Posts 123 | Profile # |
On February 18 2012 05:12 deo1 wrote:
I'm a gold subscriber and bought the pass for this weekend. Then several days later I get an email saying that as a gold subscriber I get a discount on the weekend. I'm sure if I pursued it I could get the amount refunded that I had already purchased, but in the future MLG should really line up their promotions. They are training me to not trust their deals.
E-mail me - kmagee@mlgpro.com
I'll make sure you're taken care of somehow. |
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| icouldcareless United States. February 18 2012 05:48. Posts 96 | Profile # |
While I don't think $20 is an exorbitant price for a full weekend of games, it's on the upper end of what I would be willing to pay for a premier Starcraft 2 event.
That being said, I am not going to subscribe due to MLG's continued implementation of the extended series rule. If they don't want to listen to the fans and players on tournament rules then they can't expect those same people to support them. |
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 NonY February 18 2012 06:10. Posts 6924 | Profile Blog # |
On February 18 2012 03:38 Galactus52 wrote:
I was very upset when I first read about this. It was my misunderstanding that MLG is charging for all their tournaments. As some people have clarified (and I hope they're not lying) the "championship" tournaments as I've never heard them called are still free. So I guess that means the ones like MLG Orlando/Providence will still be free to watch.
This is some special tourney apparently. I can understand the need to charge I suppose. But at the same time I don’t pay for esports. This is a fun hobby of mine that I've gotten pretty into over the last year and half but it is not a valuable use of my money. I have many a time left streams on for tourneys all day long even if I’m not watching just to give that little bit of extra ad revenue to the tourney in question but that’s as far as I go.
But then again its really more of the price point chosen. $20. I’m sorry; I find that to be insane. I will never pay that amount of money. I attended MLG Orlando last year. I'm pretty sure I paid $25 to actually BE there. That was a life experience. I took a trip, I attended a live tournament, I got to see players that I've been watching from home, there was actual value in what I was spending my money on. I can’t reason spending almost the same amount of money to sit at home.
And whatever “pizza/movie” analogy you want to make to make that price point seem reasonably doesn’t work with me. I don’t go to the movies and I don’t waste my money on takeout food. I also don’t have cable television. I use Netflix. Netflix charges me only $15 a month for unlimited streaming video. You want $20 for a weekend of viewing. I would probably be more inclined to pay $5 for something like this.
TL;DR
I’m too frugal to pay $20, if it was something like $5 maybe then.
I respect this view but just a couple of comments...
--"Never" is not a good idea. $20 could become worth less to you. Cheaper entertainment could become boring to you. Making it possible for the world's best SC2 players to fly from around the world to one location to compete in a tournament that you get to watch live could become more valuable to you. All of these values will certainly change throughout your life and it is quite possible that it'll make sense for you to buy it someday if you aren't stubborn.
--Attending an MLG costs more than the entry fee. Any money that you spend that you normally wouldn't spend staying at home watching Netflix content is part of the cost of attending. Travel, hotel, parking, food, etc. It's never just the entry fee. Of course there are ample opportunities to be frugal on such a trip but it's nearly impossible to pay nothing extra without help.
--There are a limited number of events like MLG Orlando that MLG can run. So if MLG wants to do 10 events in a year, then the first five are gonna be much easier to manage than the second five. This isn't true for everything in the world, but it is true for pro SC2 at this time. So when you compare the value and cost of one of last year's events to this Winter Arena, it isn't a fair comparison. There's only so much sponsor money and invested money. This finite amount of money can create only so many events. Viewers who want more events are willing to pay for them.
Personally, I'm dying for content that meets these criteria: 1080p, good production, constant content (achieved by multiple streams and no commercial breaks), a good lineup of players consisting of a good mix of superstar Koreans, superstar foreigners, and a lot of other top Koreans and top foreigners, a big enough prize pool to make the competition seem meaningful to me, good commentators, and scheduled at times convenient for my timezone. Holy shit is that ever hard to come by. And now that it's come along I'm praying enough people get it to make it worthwhile for MLG. |
| | "Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ------ Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.' |  |
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| Frankon February 18 2012 06:26. Posts 2953 | Profile # |
On February 18 2012 06:10 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 03:38 Galactus52 wrote:
I was very upset when I first read about this. It was my misunderstanding that MLG is charging for all their tournaments. As some people have clarified (and I hope they're not lying) the "championship" tournaments as I've never heard them called are still free. So I guess that means the ones like MLG Orlando/Providence will still be free to watch.
This is some special tourney apparently. I can understand the need to charge I suppose. But at the same time I don’t pay for esports. This is a fun hobby of mine that I've gotten pretty into over the last year and half but it is not a valuable use of my money. I have many a time left streams on for tourneys all day long even if I’m not watching just to give that little bit of extra ad revenue to the tourney in question but that’s as far as I go.
But then again its really more of the price point chosen. $20. I’m sorry; I find that to be insane. I will never pay that amount of money. I attended MLG Orlando last year. I'm pretty sure I paid $25 to actually BE there. That was a life experience. I took a trip, I attended a live tournament, I got to see players that I've been watching from home, there was actual value in what I was spending my money on. I can’t reason spending almost the same amount of money to sit at home.
And whatever “pizza/movie” analogy you want to make to make that price point seem reasonably doesn’t work with me. I don’t go to the movies and I don’t waste my money on takeout food. I also don’t have cable television. I use Netflix. Netflix charges me only $15 a month for unlimited streaming video. You want $20 for a weekend of viewing. I would probably be more inclined to pay $5 for something like this.
TL;DR
I’m too frugal to pay $20, if it was something like $5 maybe then.
I respect this view but just a couple of comments... --"Never" is not a good idea. $20 could become worth less to you. Cheaper entertainment could become boring to you. Making it possible for the world's best SC2 players to fly from around the world to one location to compete in a tournament that you get to watch live could become more valuable to you. All of these values will certainly change throughout your life and it is quite possible that it'll make sense for you to buy it someday if you aren't stubborn. --Attending an MLG costs more than the entry fee. Any money that you spend that you normally wouldn't spend staying at home watching Netflix content is part of the cost of attending. Travel, hotel, parking, food, etc. It's never just the entry fee. Of course there are ample opportunities to be frugal on such a trip but it's nearly impossible to pay nothing extra without help. --There are a limited number of events like MLG Orlando that MLG can run. So if MLG wants to do 10 events in a year, then the first five are gonna be much easier to manage than the second five. This isn't true for everything in the world, but it is true for pro SC2 at this time. So when you compare the value and cost of one of last year's events to this Winter Arena, it isn't a fair comparison. There's only so much sponsor money and invested money. This finite amount of money can create only so many events. Viewers who want more events are willing to pay for them. Personally, I'm dying for content that meets these criteria: 1080p, good production, constant content (achieved by multiple streams and no commercial breaks), a good lineup of players consisting of a good mix of superstar Koreans, superstar foreigners, and a lot of other top Koreans and top foreigners, a big enough prize pool to make the competition seem meaningful to me, good commentators, and scheduled at times convenient for my timezone. Holy shit is that ever hard to come by. And now that it's come along I'm praying enough people get it to make it worthwhile for MLG.
Didn't you said on Sotg that you dont watch tournaments?
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| esotericc February 18 2012 06:55. Posts 308 | Profile # |
How did korea BW become so profitable that it is on TV?
Shouldn't we be more concerned with emulating whatever they did instead of blindly throwing money at sundance and acting like he is some esport deity that controls our fate?
I understand MLG needs saving/money I don't agree with them that PPV is the only way to become profitable but to say esports is reliant on MLG is a stretch to say the least.Last edit: 2012-02-18 06:56:28 |
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| Youtakenocandle February 18 2012 07:00. Posts 540 | Profile # |
| Make it $10 Sundance. I'm sure a lot of people would buy it then. Or 7.99. Something more towards an app price. $20 is too steep. It's a bad idea to even test that high amount, because it will only piss people off. I would buy it for $10 or less for example. |
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| paNNN Germany. February 18 2012 07:08. Posts 10 | Profile # |
| damn i don't have a problem with paying for a good Starcraft Show. But 20$ for ONE Weekend? This is a fucking joke, i will watch the matches on Saturday from Takes Homecraft and the rest of the days i will watch the Assembly Lan - there are also good games. |
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| Bedrock United States. February 18 2012 07:55. Posts 376 | Profile # |
I don't think the price is being lowered guys. If you support it, you support it. If you don't you don't.
We will see the outcome of this high price point once the event is over. The numbers will speak... I'm pretty sure there's a lot of you who are complaining but will buy the ticket anyways. Make sure you let MLG know that the price is too high while still supporting eSports. While I can afford to pay for this event, I just won't be paying for it because it'll be during my bachelor party..
Think my friends will kill me if I ended up watching winter arena in Vegas? :D
Booze, Gambling, and some 2 rax builds.. mmm
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| | eSports or die tryin' | |
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 turdburgler England. February 18 2012 08:00. Posts 4662 | Profile Blog # |
On February 18 2012 07:08 paNNN wrote:
damn i don't have a problem with paying for a good Starcraft Show. But 20$ for ONE Weekend? This is a fucking joke, i will watch the matches on Saturday from Takes Homecraft and the rest of the days i will watch the Assembly Lan - there are also good games.
im taking sundances advice
having a man date in a man cave doing manly things such as being men. im already gold and im going splitzies with my mancrush so its only gonna cost me like £5 for 2 days (watching friday games saturday morning due to time zones) so it will be worth it.
im not saying im happy with how things have been managed so far, but i still think the overall product will be worth the cost. lets hope they dont let me down :D |
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| FireSA Australia. February 18 2012 12:26. Posts 369 | Profile # |
| As a student who lives on a budget, and mostly watches SC2 by himself (as I would guess most still do) this is too much money for me. I personally would not watch absolutely every game but more or less go with what was on and interesting when I am awake (time differences come into play here), and the lack of a BarCraft or the like where I live does not help. But yeah SC2 is not a social activity, so I could more readily justify going out for dinner with friends one night for that amount of money than watching SC2 sporadically over a weekend. I did intentionally use that example in order to show that you can look at it both ways, if you are happy to pay $20 for a night eating with friends, no reason you can't pay that for SC2. But yeah no thanks. |
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| GKSE Sweden. February 18 2012 12:44. Posts 4 | Profile # |
20$ for ~20 hours of entertainment is not expensive per say, it is however a bit high when you compare to what GSL takes for a season pass. and at the same time you have the snafu with the scheduling.(assembly at the same time)
But the main thing is that they cannot have one glitch with the production. When it was free to the user people give them alot of leway on that kind of thing, but when it is ppv it has got to be near perfect or people wont pay for the next event.
And personally I am highly sceptical that they can pull that of with the trackrecord they have. I am especially talking about stream lag here.
No I dont have a bad connection.
It also goes for downtime between the matches. It was okey with alot of downtime since you did not pay for it.
But same thing here when people pay for a ppv production they want alot of content. otherwise they wont feel that they are getting there moneys worth.
And to the people that say 20$ is not much. Everything is relative but you have to judge it from a market standpoint, and at the current sc2 market, that is rather expensive.Last edit: 2012-02-18 12:50:15 |
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