| CyDe United States. February 22 2012 02:03. Posts 999 | Profile Blog # |
On February 22 2012 02:00 stormchaser wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:57 Shiori wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it.
Just watch TvZ lategame from now on. You cannot deal with Bl/Infestor and Ultra/Ling remax without Snipe. It's just not possible. And again, I don't see many Protoss players celebrating the Phoenix buff, since it totally misses the actual problem. The only thing people are happy about is the MULE change.
Nah terrans haven't played around with ravens yet, and you act like ghosts don't exist now, they're still extremely good.
At what? |
| | youtube.com/GamingCyDe-- SC2, BF3, whatever else strikes my fancy |
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| magnaflow Canada. February 22 2012 02:04. Posts 1384 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 02:00 stormchaser wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:57 Shiori wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it.
Just watch TvZ lategame from now on. You cannot deal with Bl/Infestor and Ultra/Ling remax without Snipe. It's just not possible. And again, I don't see many Protoss players celebrating the Phoenix buff, since it totally misses the actual problem. The only thing people are happy about is the MULE change.
Nah terrans haven't played around with ravens yet, and you act like ghosts don't exist now, they're still extremely good.
Now terrans will start to use ravens. Then they will be nerfed next. |
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| Luppy1 Singapore. February 22 2012 02:04. Posts 158 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 01:54 Shiori wrote:
Snipe nerf wasn't "needed" if you consider that it is the ONLY option Terrans have.
Mass mutas are a problem all game long since Toss can't expand once they're out on the field and can't pressure due to the Spine Crawler spam. We need a gateway unit that is decent against air or a unit with reliable AoE against air that can be teched to. Not a micro intensive unit that can only work if we happened to have opened Phoenix anyway.
Snipe isn't taken out of the game. It's still an option. Terran players just need to do more now.
A handful of mutas is not an issue at all for protoss and it's not possible to get a huge muta ball until it's late late game
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| slicknav February 22 2012 02:05. Posts 1394 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it.
Everyone agreed that snipe needed to be nerfed in someway, but nerfing it into the ground so that it is now useless against any type of bio unit was a bit much. Snipe is no longer effective vs marines, scvs, zealots, banelings, ect...
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 Soleron United Kingdom. February 22 2012 02:05. Posts 1324 | Profile Blog # |
| deleted Last edit: 2012-02-22 02:09:36 |
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| Shiori February 22 2012 02:06. Posts 2816 | Profile Blog # |
Yeah the advice Zergs are giving right now reminds me a lot of when people were telling Zerg to just Nydus every time there was a gross imbalance (e.g. pre-infestor discovery). Ravens are decent units. They are, however, expensive, slow, vulnerable, situational, and require tech labbed Starports to produce. That means you're making less Vikings/Medivacs. Plus, they get crushed by Fungal just like Vikings. They're also 100% useless against Ultra/Ling, and I don't see why having a bunch of floating RC planes will be any better than having a bunch of Vikings (which can at least land) once the Ultras start to roll out. Terran simply can't mitigate losses against Ultra/Ling without the Ghost. That's why people used it. It was never that Ghosts countered Ultras. They just allowed you to diminish the Ultra numbers enough to hang on until Marauders and Tanks could be produced.
Since Terran can't match Z production, this will no longer occur and Terran will almost certainly lose. |
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| s3rp Germany. February 22 2012 02:07. Posts 2793 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 02:00 stormchaser wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:57 Shiori wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it.
Just watch TvZ lategame from now on. You cannot deal with Bl/Infestor and Ultra/Ling remax without Snipe. It's just not possible. And again, I don't see many Protoss players celebrating the Phoenix buff, since it totally misses the actual problem. The only thing people are happy about is the MULE change.
Nah terrans haven't played around with ravens yet, and you act like ghosts don't exist now, they're still extremely good.
I have they suck with anything but Mech and when you Mech you're so immobile that it's basically impossible to hold more then 3 bases on the majority of the Maps since the only mobile unit you have is the Helion that does horrible against anything but Lings.
And no Ghosts in TvZ will not be good anymore . They're basically the Anti-Infestor which is kinda funny since the Infestor is basically the Anti-Everything. But thats not new Blizzard thinks it's a great idea to force players into building units for 1! purpose alone and make them useless for anything else.Last edit: 2012-02-22 02:11:44 |
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| Maaasta February 22 2012 02:07. Posts 57 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 01:57 twistedalpha wrote:
Can someone post a pic of the phoenix range upgrade in the fleet beacon.
Thanks
Screenshot |
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| shizna United Kingdom. February 22 2012 02:07. Posts 803 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 01:54 Zedonius666 wrote:
I'm not sure what is going on, but I downloaded the patch and installed it successfully. Although when I load the game (it said 1.4.3 in the bottom). The changes Blizzard posted are not in the game. Instead Voidrays got what seems to be there speed upgrade for free (Speed is reading 2.25 now, they seem faster then before but unsure). Ghosts snipe still reads 45 dmg (is that what it was before?). Since there are no official patch notes, I wonder what is going on. Can anyone tell me the default unit stats for Voidray speed and snipe dmg?
There is also no range upgrade at fleet beacon.
i thought voidray already moved at 2.25... |
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| Luppy1 Singapore. February 22 2012 02:09. Posts 158 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 02:04 magnaflow wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:00 stormchaser wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:57 Shiori wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it.
Just watch TvZ lategame from now on. You cannot deal with Bl/Infestor and Ultra/Ling remax without Snipe. It's just not possible. And again, I don't see many Protoss players celebrating the Phoenix buff, since it totally misses the actual problem. The only thing people are happy about is the MULE change.
Nah terrans haven't played around with ravens yet, and you act like ghosts don't exist now, they're still extremely good.
Now terrans will start to use ravens. Then they will be nerfed next.
You're right in the sense that no one would know the potential of certain units until they are used more extensively. Just because they nerfed terran in the previous patch isn't a good reason to justify why they shouldn't be nerfed in this patch. If a unit is too strong, it has to be readjusted. |
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| eourcs United States. February 22 2012 02:09. Posts 459 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 02:04 Luppy1 wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:54 Shiori wrote:
Snipe nerf wasn't "needed" if you consider that it is the ONLY option Terrans have.
Mass mutas are a problem all game long since Toss can't expand once they're out on the field and can't pressure due to the Spine Crawler spam. We need a gateway unit that is decent against air or a unit with reliable AoE against air that can be teched to. Not a micro intensive unit that can only work if we happened to have opened Phoenix anyway.
Snipe isn't taken out of the game. It's still an option. Terran players just need to do more now. A handful of mutas is not an issue at all for protoss and it's not possible to get a huge muta ball until it's late late game
Neural is still technically an option after the nerf, but who uses it? It's pretty much the same thing with snipe.
When you have 6 to 8 gases and all your gas is being invested into mutas, it's quite easy to get up to 24-30 mutas, it's not late late game. |
| | Masters Terran | Strelok after losing to Kas' BCs "FUUUUUCK" *Stream Offline* | "Fuck hellions. Fuck them in the ass" IdrA |  |
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| naut1c Austria. February 22 2012 02:10. Posts 100 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 01:57 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it.
Just watch TvZ lategame from now on. You cannot deal with Bl/Infestor and Ultra/Ling remax without Snipe. It's just not possible. And again, I don't see many Protoss players celebrating the Phoenix buff, since it totally misses the actual problem. The only thing people are happy about is the MULE change.
Bullsh*t. seeker missiles. thors. ghosts. spread vikings still wreck brood/infestor |
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| Shiori February 22 2012 02:11. Posts 2816 | Profile Blog # |
On February 22 2012 02:04 Luppy1 wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:54 Shiori wrote:
Snipe nerf wasn't "needed" if you consider that it is the ONLY option Terrans have.
Mass mutas are a problem all game long since Toss can't expand once they're out on the field and can't pressure due to the Spine Crawler spam. We need a gateway unit that is decent against air or a unit with reliable AoE against air that can be teched to. Not a micro intensive unit that can only work if we happened to have opened Phoenix anyway.
Snipe isn't taken out of the game. It's still an option. Terran players just need to do more now. A handful of mutas is not an issue at all for protoss and it's not possible to get a huge muta ball until it's late late game
False. A decent number of Mutas (let's say 15+) represents a problem that quickly spirals out of control against Protoss. The trouble is with the style of play that Zergs adopt when playing Mutas. They contain you in your base, force you to waste money on cannons, Templar, and so on, and essentially prevent you from expanding. You will never reliably get past 3 base against a good Muta Zerg unless you open Phoenix.
Further, how does the Phoenix buff even help against 30 Mutas in the late game? There's no opportunity to make a Stargate or three and start pumping Phoenixes. It's not like Protoss suddenly receives a fleet of Phoenixes once they reach the mythical "late late game" (whenever that is). And so what if you kill the Mutas? You're still stuck on 3 bases since you couldn't expand until the Mutas were killed. Now a huge force of BL/Infestor/whatever comes at you from the 6base Zerg and you lose.
It'd almost be like if Terran had to make BCs to deal with Mutas and there was no other option. They'd get massacred. The reason Mutas can be dealt with by a Terran player (without making Mutas useless) is because Marines are good agaisnt them early, Turrets are good at making the trade not worth it for the Zerg, and Thors do GUARANTEED massive damage to Mutas. Protoss has none of these bonuses. That, right there, is the problem. Stalkers are bad against Mutas in that they can't kill them quickly enough to justify their high cost and supply. Cannons are worse than turrets, require pylons, are more expensive, and can't be repaired. Storm is our Thor equivalent but it can be dodged and against a decent Zerg will never deal more than 20 damage (i.e. 1 tick). Phoenix are okay but can never be massed quickly enough once Spire has been scouted; they also have way less aggressive potential than Mutas, which mop up mineral lines in seconds. |
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| magnaflow Canada. February 22 2012 02:12. Posts 1384 | Profile # |
I hate to say this but I hope all terrans get absolutely wrecked by zerg late game this weekend. I'll be watching both MLG and Assembly. I also hope too see mutas continue to wreck protoss.
GOnna be a good weekend for zerg I feel. |
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| Zedonius666 February 22 2012 02:12. Posts 4 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 02:07 shizna wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:54 Zedonius666 wrote:
I'm not sure what is going on, but I downloaded the patch and installed it successfully. Although when I load the game (it said 1.4.3 in the bottom). The changes Blizzard posted are not in the game. Instead Voidrays got what seems to be there speed upgrade for free (Speed is reading 2.25 now, they seem faster then before but unsure). Ghosts snipe still reads 45 dmg (is that what it was before?). Since there are no official patch notes, I wonder what is going on. Can anyone tell me the default unit stats for Voidray speed and snipe dmg?
There is also no range upgrade at fleet beacon.
i thought voidray already moved at 2.25...
I don't know. Thats why I asked the question if anyone did know. I don't play Toss but wanted to see if any changes were done in this patch. They just looked/felt faster to me since I last played Toss. Its strange because I downloaded the Patch and patched my game, but I don't have any of the changes Blizzard posted in the situation report. Bug? Or does the patch changes not take effect until the game is actually back online? |
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| p1cKLes United States. February 22 2012 02:16. Posts 339 | Profile # |
| We Terrans are a resourceful race. We don’t have the power of the Protoss or the rapid growth of Zerg, you give us lemons we make lemonade. Take our Thors! We will use our tanks. Take our tanks! We will use our reaper. Take our reaper! We will use our (blue flame) hellions. Take our hellions! We will use our ghosts. Take our ghosts! We will use our marines. Take our marines! We will use our scv’s. We will defeat you! |
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| Balgrog United States. February 22 2012 02:16. Posts 1168 | Profile Blog # |
| scumbag blizzard, I can't BELIEVE they are release a new patch DAYS before 2 HUGE tournaments! This is just plain ridiculous! |
| | The only way to attack structure is with chaos. |  |
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| Mehukannu Finland. February 22 2012 02:17. Posts 387 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 02:12 Zedonius666 wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 02:07 shizna wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:54 Zedonius666 wrote:
I'm not sure what is going on, but I downloaded the patch and installed it successfully. Although when I load the game (it said 1.4.3 in the bottom). The changes Blizzard posted are not in the game. Instead Voidrays got what seems to be there speed upgrade for free (Speed is reading 2.25 now, they seem faster then before but unsure). Ghosts snipe still reads 45 dmg (is that what it was before?). Since there are no official patch notes, I wonder what is going on. Can anyone tell me the default unit stats for Voidray speed and snipe dmg?
There is also no range upgrade at fleet beacon.
i thought voidray already moved at 2.25...
I don't know. Thats why I asked the question if anyone did know. I don't play Toss but wanted to see if any changes were done in this patch. They just looked/felt faster to me since I last played Toss. Its strange because I downloaded the Patch and patched my game, but I don't have any of the changes Blizzard posted in the situation report. Bug? Or does the patch changes not take effect until the game is actually back online?
When in doubt LIQUIPEDIA!  voidray
So yeah, they have always moved at 2.25 speed. |
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| Spades United States. February 22 2012 02:18. Posts 249 | Profile # |
| anyone have a manual patch download? |
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| s3rp Germany. February 22 2012 02:18. Posts 2793 | Profile # |
On February 22 2012 02:10 naut1c wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 01:57 Shiori wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:54 stormchaser wrote:
On February 22 2012 01:47 Shiori wrote:
Kinda stunned that Blizzard went ahead and made such ridiculous changes even though the vast majority of the community was against them.
More like vocal minority. I can't think of a pro that thought this was a bad patch other than a few terrans (and mostly for purposes outside of zvt), in fact I think most of the community is very happy about it.
Just watch TvZ lategame from now on. You cannot deal with Bl/Infestor and Ultra/Ling remax without Snipe. It's just not possible. And again, I don't see many Protoss players celebrating the Phoenix buff, since it totally misses the actual problem. The only thing people are happy about is the MULE change.
Bullsh*t. seeker missiles. thors. ghosts. spread vikings still wreck brood/infestor
The point was never the pure composition more like how it's basically impossible as a Terran to react to a techswitch for the Zerg . Since the units you build are now completely useless and i want to see how after a battle in the middle of the Map you attack a Zerg with Thors , Empty Ravens and Vikings before he remaxed on something completely different. Most maps in competetive play right now are too big for that. They force Terran to build so many units purely to counter other units that just suck at actually attacking someone because they're either too slow , Energy reliant or just flat out suck against anything they're not supposed to counter.
Last edit: 2012-02-22 02:24:38 |
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